S06.42: Witch Romances (are not just for Halloween)
Who says it has to be Halloween to celebrate witches? It’s 2024 and frankly, we could do with a few more powerful, spell-casting women around here. We’re talking about our favorite witch romances, many of which (see what we did there) have nothing at all to do with spooky season! There are rumors of a new Practical Magic in the air, which (ope!) makes us extremely happy, and we’re just trying to decide which (!!!) of these fabulous books to reread this week. We’re going deep into romance history to talk about why witches are so compelling, why they’re perfect for a light, frothy romance, and why magic in the hands of men doesn’t hit the same way.
We are the weirdos, Mister.
If you wish you had six more days in a week of people talking about romance, may we suggest joining our Patreon? Aside from an additional episode every month you get access to our Discord, where 1000 other romance readers are talking about books they love (and many other things!) all the time. It’s so fun! Learn more about the Patreon and go join those cool people who love romance as much as we do at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
If you liked the post-it note situation in The Fall Guy, or the low-tech pre-post it note version from Romancing the Stone, Aqua Notes may be for you.
Today banter portion was very into “Great Lakes, Great Times.” If you would like to talk to Sarah about the Wisconsin fish boil from Top Chef, please take that up with her and leave Jen out of it. Or travel across Lake Michigan on the SS Badger ferry. (But you cannot drive across Texas in one day).
The entry point for witches tends to the fun, silly ones: Bewitched and Hocus Pocus, but also because it’s the realm of women, we love movies like Practical Magic, The Witches of Eastwick, and The Craft. Willow’s arc on Buffy the Vampire Slayer goes from rom-com witch to strong witch to evil witch. Here’s a critique of Yennefer’s transformation in The Witcher.
Emily Alexander and Heidi Rehwaldt host a Nora Roberts podcast called Romancing the Shelf, so check it out if you love La Nora!
The Winchester Mystery House in California is pretty wild and worth going on a tour!
Listen to Iris Johansen’s Trailblazer episode.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Blue Box Press, publishers of
C. Travis Rice’s Sapphire Dawn,
available in print, ebook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
Lumi Labs, creators of Lumi Gummies.
Go to Lumigummies.com and use code FATED50
for free gummies with a limited time $50 off coupon.
Or use code FATEDMATES for 30% Off.
and
Grand Central Publishing, publishers of
Iris Johansen and Roy Johansen’s Flashback,
available in print, ebook, or audiobook at
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books or your local bookseller
S06.05: Hot For Teacher with Special Guest Lauren Billings
Oh no! Jen has bronchitis or at least something with bronchitis vibes and her voice is barely with us, so Sarah went rogue and brought Lauren Billings, the Lauren half of Christina Lauren, with her! While Jen is taking this week off, Sarah & Lauren are taking this opportunity to talk about a topic that is deeply Not For Jen™️, Hot for Teacher!
We talk about Anne of Green Gables, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and other teachers who just might have installed our buttons, and then we get to absolutely crushing TBR piles! Headphones in for this one — it is not for all markets, and you’ve been warned!
Jen will be back next week along with a very fun Trailblazer, and then we’ll be tackling our first read along of Season 6, Laura Kinsale’s Flowers from the Storm, available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or from your local indie.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, you are welcome at our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Welcome Lauren Billings, half of author duo Christina Lauren. Lauren and Christina have been guests on the podcast several times, including the forced proximity trope, trope death match, and most recently for the Twilight read along. Find Christina Lauren on Instagram.
Anne of Green Gables! Who knew! And yes, of course Buffy/Giles fic exists in multituteds on AO3. Enjoy, pervs.
Take Sarah's Start Your Romance Novel Today class for beginners on October 29th, virtually.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsored By
Ava Miles, author of The Paris Roommates,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
***
Take Sarah’s Start Your Romance Novel Today Class
October 29, 2023 at 1pm eastern, virtually.
More info (recording available if you cannot make it live) at
sarahmaclean.net/writing-romance
***
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S05.36: The Best Kisses in Romance
We’re talking kissing today! So simple and so powerful, there’s no doubt that that first kiss in romance is always an important one. This episode was inspired by our recent readalong of Her Best Worst Mistake, but we talk about some other great books (most of which we’ve talked about before) with truly excellent kisses. Enjoy…and tell us about your favorite kisses in books, movies, tv shows…wherever you get your superior smooching.
We have a Patreon now, and it comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Kissing is the best, and we are obsessed with the first kisses from the following movies and TV shows: Maddie and David from Moonlighting, lots of Angel and Buffy kissing, jump in the wayback machine for Sam and Diane from Cheers, and more recently Jim and Pam from The Office.
The first gay kiss on network TV was on LA Law back in 1991.
In the 80s and 90s, we imprinted hard on movies with great kissing scenes: The primordial kiss that was Han Solo and Princess Leia in The Empire Strikes Back, the “No Kissing on the Mouth” from Pretty Woman and Jen forgot to mention another 90s classic, Poetic Justice with Tupac and Janet Jackson. Hello to that last scene from Never Been Kissed with Drew Barrymore. People have made entire YouTube videos of great movie kisses.
Why did people use a metaphor about [“Rounding the bases”][11] to discuss sex back in the day? Who knows!
Most of today's links are YouTube videos, but here are PDFs of the things that are text-based links. [11]: https://www.glamour.com/story/lets-settle-this-baseball-and
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Meghan Quinn, author of Royally in Trouble,
available from Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
Megan Frampton, author of His Study in Scandal,
available now from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo
and your local independent bookseller.
and
Lumi Labs, creators of Microdose Gummies
Visit microdose.com and use the code FATEDMATES
for 30% off and free shipping on your order
S04.31: Vampire Romance Novels
At the request of Instagram, we’re talking Vampires today! We’re doing some deep cuts, returning to Kresley Cole for a minute or two, and then digging into worldbuilding, morality chain, why these books lend themselves to massive series, and ultimately…why we love these big toothy jerks. If you’re a paranormal reader, get your pencils ready — especially if you’re new to it, because we’re taking everyone way back to the beginnings of the subgenre!
Thanks to Kelly Cain, author of An Acquired Taste, and Alyxandra Harvey, author of How to Marry an Earl, for sponsoring the episode.
Our next read along is Julie James’s Something About You. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or at your local bookstore.
Show Notes
We’ve talked about vampires on past episodes: Kresley’s IAD vampires (Conrad is our favorite); Dark Lover by JR Ward; and last fall, we had Jenny Nordbak on for a monster interstitial.
If you’re in Brooklyn and looking for a bookstore that carries lots of PNR, try The Bookmark Shoppe.
In film, after 9/11, the rise of the anti/superhero to reconcile America's participation in a war. After the economic downturn, it was the rise of zombies to justify the way America was leaving poor people behind. And in this TikTok by Virgolikebeyonce, she suggests we're about to see media that reconciles our obsession with work/capitalism. We at FM have been noting a rise of the regular, blue-collar hero, which would track with this.
A hegemony explainer.
Tessa Bailey hit #1 on both the USAToday and New York Times bestseller lists with Hook, Line, and Sinker.
The Sherilyn Kenyon situation is truly weird.
Even eBooks can go out of print, for example, The Faustian Brothers series by Evie Byrne.
Our next read along is Something About You by Julie James.
Vampire Romances
Vampire TV Shows
Sponsors
This week’s episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by:
Kelly Cain, author of An Acquired Taste,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or wherever you get your ebooks.
Visit kellycainauthor.com
and
Alyxandra Harvey, author of How to Marry an Earl,
available at Amazon.
Visit alyxandraharvey.com
S03.31: Morality Chain Romance
We’re so thrilled to be talking morality chain romance! We’ve owed this episode to Katee Robert for nearly a year, and we have no excuses for how long this has taken, except that time in 2020 was a flat circle. Here, we get down to business—we tackle the definition of Morality Chain, and how it differs from Dark Romance, how it connects with mafia, criminals, pirates, highwaymen, and the original Alpha.
Check all your Content Warnings before you begin with these books!
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you. We hope you’re reading the best books this week.
Next week, we’re reading Alexis Daria’s You Had Me At Hola, one of our Best Books of 2020! Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
One very important note: we highly recommend doing a thorough search for content warnings for all the books and movies we mention this week.
We love Katee Robert, who we had on as a guest for the menage interstitial. Katee bid on this item at Kennedy Ryan’s Lift 4 Autism auction. It happens every spring, so keep an eye on this page for the 2021 auction if you’d like to pick the topic for a future interstitial.
This week, Katee released Seducing My Guardian, the 4th book in her SUPER HOT Touch of Taboo series. If you'd like to read a morality chain romance written by Katee, we recommend The Bastard's Bargain.
“In springtime, the only pretty ring time” is from Shakespeare’s As You Like It. It's also possible Sarah knows it from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. She would like you to believe that it's from the former, but we'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. Either way, “If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it,” is from Beyonce.
As it turns out, Chicago is a great town for beach volleyball.
It’s hard not to talk about morality chain & dark romance together, but we think they are inverse tropes. The internet definition of Morality Chain is “is a character who is the reason another character is Good.” Jen and Sarah’s current definition is that in morality chain romance, the Love Interest pulls a hero towards humanity and goodness, while in dark romance, the love interest is pulled down into the hero’s lawless world.
Some examples in pop culture are Spike from Buffy and maybe Barney in How I Met Your Motherr. Also, check out a movie called The Professional, where a child (played by Natalie Portman!) befriends the assassin next door. The Jason Statham one with a kid is called Safe.
The Hero’s Journey is very common character archetype in literature and pop culture, but Sarah and Jen are both very taken with Gail Carriger’s description of the alternative archetype, The Heroine’s Journey.
If you want more about morality chain, so many of Kresley’s books from The Immortals After Dark series will work, so please listen to season one! Our favorites are Dark Needs at Night’s Edge, Lothaire, and Sweet Ruin.
We were divided on whether the character has to be a danger to others in order to qualitfy as morality chain. In the Gamemaker series: The Professional is about an assassin who is a danger to others, while in The Player he’s only a danger to himself.
Jen Porter wrote a long thread about what she thinks of as PEA, or problematic ever after, romance.
Mickey is "kind of a Fagin-y" as a character, but without the antisemitism. In interesting historical facts, Dickens rewrote Oliver Twist later in life to remove all anti-Semitic characteristics from Fagin, after he'd been criticized for the portrayal of the character. Of course, it's not that simple. Read more about it from Deborah Epstein Nord.
Scottie is the main character of Managed, and is classified more as grumpy one/sunshine one, which we argue is just morality chain dialed down.
More about how most writers have a “core story."
Next week, we'll be reading You Had me at Hola by Alexis Daria
MUSIC: Cardi B - Money
9: Torture Island!!! - Demon from the Dark
Torture Island is here and we could not be more excited! Demon from the Dark is Jen’s favorite book in the series, because she loves poor, broken Malkom, the vemon with a heart of gold, and his fated mate, Carrow, our second witch, whose powers come from other people’s joy.
This episode, we’re digging into the worldbuilding of the second movement of IAD — Torture Island. We’re talking about innocence and how it is a great motivator, what saves a heroine from being unlikeable, why bathing is sexy, and how we really would like it if more men offered up the heads of our enemies as tribute. As always, there’s a lost-limb count and Lothaire-Watch!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, get ready for the most (we think?) controversial of the IAD books — Dreams of a Dark Warrior, when Declan Chase, unknowing berserker and magister of Torture Island, gets paired with Regin the Radiant. Get DoaDW at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In the 1976 movie Rocky, one of the things he consumes during training in a glassful of raw eggs.
Jen loves books about nuclear weapons and nuclear disasters, and the mindset of the Order is very much that of mutually assured destruction during the Cold War.
In Buffy, it was called the Initiative. Angel, Riley, and Spike were her boyfriends on the show, but in the comic there are other lovers.
Your brain isn't fully cooked until you're 25!
Duolingo helps you learn languages, but if you're in a hurry just drink down somebody's blood.
Sarah's friend Natalie Parker's book is called Seafire and it has the most gorgeous cover.
Book Riot makes the case for a Romantic Horror subgenre, and Victoria Helen Stone wrote about the relationship between romance and suspense.
Some information from Pew about rural vs urban living in America.
Adventures in Babysitting is an 80s movie all about the horrors of some kids and their babysitter getting into trouble in the big, bad city of Chicago (or, as Jenny Holiday & Jen call it: Dirty Toronto).
You can tell a lot about a culture by its parenting.
Pygmalion and Encino Man.
Some directions for any tailsman-making endeavors.
Lore parenting tips aside, Jen wrote once about how human parents can talk to their kids about sex.
Maybe 28 Days Later isn't the best metaphor for IAD, but it's a scary movie.
Jen loves it when heroes grovel.
A vemon is a vampire/demon hybrid; Venom is a Tom Hardy movie.
If Jen knew photoshop, she'd be putting Malkolm inside a Sweet Valley High circle... Demon Love!
Yao Ming is very tall compared to Kevin Hart, but Jason Momoa and Lisa Bonet are much better fancasting for Malkolm and Carrow.
Friend of the Pod Adriana Herrera was on our sister podcast Wicked Wallflowers last week.
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (6)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
Chest and Torso (2)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Face and Eyes (3)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Horns (2)
Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark) ** Legs and Feet (3)**
Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (3)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. He promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ (Pleasure of a Dark Prince).
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)