9: Torture Island!!! - Demon from the Dark
Torture Island is here and we could not be more excited! Demon from the Dark is Jen’s favorite book in the series, because she loves poor, broken Malkom, the vemon with a heart of gold, and his fated mate, Carrow, our second witch, whose powers come from other people’s joy.
This episode, we’re digging into the worldbuilding of the second movement of IAD — Torture Island. We’re talking about innocence and how it is a great motivator, what saves a heroine from being unlikeable, why bathing is sexy, and how we really would like it if more men offered up the heads of our enemies as tribute. As always, there’s a lost-limb count and Lothaire-Watch!
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In two weeks, get ready for the most (we think?) controversial of the IAD books — Dreams of a Dark Warrior, when Declan Chase, unknowing berserker and magister of Torture Island, gets paired with Regin the Radiant. Get DoaDW at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In the 1976 movie Rocky, one of the things he consumes during training in a glassful of raw eggs.
Jen loves books about nuclear weapons and nuclear disasters, and the mindset of the Order is very much that of mutually assured destruction during the Cold War.
In Buffy, it was called the Initiative. Angel, Riley, and Spike were her boyfriends on the show, but in the comic there are other lovers.
Your brain isn't fully cooked until you're 25!
Duolingo helps you learn languages, but if you're in a hurry just drink down somebody's blood.
Sarah's friend Natalie Parker's book is called Seafire and it has the most gorgeous cover.
Book Riot makes the case for a Romantic Horror subgenre, and Victoria Helen Stone wrote about the relationship between romance and suspense.
Some information from Pew about rural vs urban living in America.
Adventures in Babysitting is an 80s movie all about the horrors of some kids and their babysitter getting into trouble in the big, bad city of Chicago (or, as Jenny Holiday & Jen call it: Dirty Toronto).
You can tell a lot about a culture by its parenting.
Pygmalion and Encino Man.
Some directions for any tailsman-making endeavors.
Lore parenting tips aside, Jen wrote once about how human parents can talk to their kids about sex.
Maybe 28 Days Later isn't the best metaphor for IAD, but it's a scary movie.
Jen loves it when heroes grovel.
A vemon is a vampire/demon hybrid; Venom is a Tom Hardy movie.
If Jen knew photoshop, she'd be putting Malkolm inside a Sweet Valley High circle... Demon Love!
Yao Ming is very tall compared to Kevin Hart, but Jason Momoa and Lisa Bonet are much better fancasting for Malkolm and Carrow.
Friend of the Pod Adriana Herrera was on our sister podcast Wicked Wallflowers last week.
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (6)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
Chest and Torso (2)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Face and Eyes (3)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Horns (2)
Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark) ** Legs and Feet (3)**
Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (3)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. He promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ (Pleasure of a Dark Prince).
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
7: Ghost Pepper Town: Warlord Wants Forever & Untouchable
We’re tackling the novellas this week, and finishing up the Wroth Brother Quartet with The Warlord Wants Forever (Nikolai) & Untouchable (Murdoch), as well as their incredible Valkyrie mates.
This episode, we’re talking about Myst’s weird chain, Danii’s loneliness, the responsibility of authors to readers, to themselves, to the text, and to literary history, and the way Untouchable hints at the enormous world that IAD is about to become.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, we’re back to the Lykae, with one of our favorite books — Pleasures of a Dark Prince, the last book in the first arc of the IAD series (this begins at the same time as A Hunger Like No Other). Garreth MacRieve, prince of the Lykae clan and Lucia the Huntress — the greatest archer of all time.
Show Notes
The Wroth Brothers are dreamy, and here are the books the feature Nikolai, Sebastian, Conrad, and Murdoch.
Take a look at the IAD Ranking Spreasheet of Wonder from the Wicked Wallflowers Podcast.
Sarah refers to our novella episode, but she means the Holiday Romances episode where we had a long discussion of the novellas as a form.
Jen collected some comparison screenshots from the original (A) and revised (B) versions of The Warlord Wants Forever. The two versions of the scene after the chain is broken; The two versions of the first time they have sex; and the two versions of Nix naming herself.
Dubcon romances have main characters who agree to sex play featuring "dubious consent."
A little more about the versions of Whitney, My Love. You can still find original versions on eBay or Amazon, but you'll pay more for them.
Jen mentions Eric Selinger at DePaul. He teaches classes on Romance at DePaul, which is local for her. SADLY, they don't have PhD programs. But you can read more academic romance talk at a blog called Teach Me Tonight.
The Hello Stranger review at Smart Bitches calls out the Orientalism in the novel, and features Lisa Kleypas' response.
The Memory Hole is a reference to 1984 by George Orwell.
A little more about why sheikh and Native American romances are problematic.
A definitive list of the qualities, skills, and powers of vampires in literature and pop culture. At some point, Jen's going to add IAD.
Retcon stands for "retroactive continiuity" and here's a great primer about it from the best dictionary, Merriam-Webster.
In two weeks, we'll be discussing Garreth & Lucia in Pleasure of a Dark Prince.
4: A+, Would Risk Haunting: Dark Needs at Night's Edge
Book 4 is here and so are ghosts! We’re talking Dark Needs at Night's Edge, starring Conrad (the most tortured of the Wroth vampire brothers) and Néomi (the ghost trapped in the house where he’s held hostage while he dries out). We’ll cover heroines with agency, menstrual cycles, virgin heroes and the importance of family. Also, Jen is on about the moon again.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Dark Desires After Dusk — the beginning of the Rage-Demonarchy duology, featuring Cadeon Woede, who is forced to choose between familial loyalty and his human (or is she?!) fated mate, brilliant mathematician, Holly.
Get ready for the read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
- Ghosts are a human problem and preoccupation.
- According to the Washington Post, "nearly half of the women who were murdered during the past decade were killed by a current or former intimate partner." Huge content warnings for everything in this article.
- The Flame and the Flower, Shanna, and some of Sarah's thoughts about rape in romance.
- We talk about Id a lot on Fated Mates, and we use it as a shorthand for our most primal, deep-rooted desires.
- "All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" is the famous first line of Anna Karenina. This New York Times article about the many Tolstoy translations is fascinating.
- Kresley Cole isn't the only one to use the menstrual cycle as a symbol; but others wonder why menstruation is almost always absent from fiction.
- A crescent moon (or "sliver moon" as Neomi calls it) is never up at midnight. Literally never.
- Jen rants a lot about first person narration a lot on Twitter, but it's super OTT, so just read this thread about first person narration that was started by Rebekah Weatherspoon.
- Shortly after they recoreded this episode, Jonathan Franzen stanned for third person narration and Jen realized she's just a handmaiden to the patriarchy.
- Jen strongly recommends Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon. She saw Kiese Laymon being interviewed by Lolly Bowean at the Chicago Humanities Festival, and it was amazing.
- All people deserve birth control that's right for them.
- Some romance readers love breaking in the ponies with a virgin hero.
- Arguably, agency is the most important character trait.
- There are 45 cemetaries in New Orleans, 31 are historic, and 5 are listed in the National Register of Historic Places.
- If you're planning to write a sitcom, know the formula.
- In IAD, it's Thrane's Key; it Harry Potter, it's a time turner.
- Get yourself some IAD ringtones.
- Holly Ashwin and Cadeon Woede are up next in Dark Desires After Dusk.
Lost Limb Count
Legs (2)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Arms (1)
Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked) ** Eyes (1)**
Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Hands (1)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
2: The Best Led Zeppelin Song is by Pink Floyd: No Rest for the Wicked
We’re two books in this week, reading No Rest for the Wicked, starring Kaderin the Cold-hearted and Sebastian Wroth, participating in the Talisman Hie…Kresley’s version of The Amazing Race.
Sarah & Jen cover everything from pop-culture in romance novels to the lengths we’ll go for the people we love, and the immense trust required when we fall in love…all while marveling at the way Kresley sets the stage for a series that will subvert tropes and genres again and again.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night — and the witches are coming! WDOAWN is the story of Bowen MacRieve (werewolf) and Mariketa the Awaited (witch)…and the book that really breaks open the wide world of IAD. We’ll be joined by the brilliant Adriana Herrera, and you won’t want to miss it. Get ready for the read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie.
Show Notes
Some fun facts about The Amazing Race.
The Valkyeries in mythology, and maybe you didn't notice that "Val Hall" is a play on Valhalla.
Vampires in pop culture & literature.
Remember your high school English teacher talking about characters who are foils of each other? This is not to be confused with your algebra teacher talking about how to solve quadratic equations.
On Urban Dictionary, I want to kiss the person who defined Frigid it as "An outdated, Victorian term used to describe women who aren't interested in sex. Only used today by drunk men in bars to explain why the woman they attempted to pick up wasn't interested."
A wacky look at some potential real life examples of time travel.
Just out of curiosity, this is what you'll find if you google "Bad Ass Estonian General." IMPRESSIVE.
Sarah's wet noodle joke is part of a long literary tradition where vampires just need a good dose of viagra.
All about beta heros, cinnamon roll heroes, and a link to a lot of talk about the latter from Ana Coqui's November 2018's #RomBkLove.
Sarah mentions "the vampire chained to a bed" and she's talking about Conrad Wroth, the hero of Dark Needs at Night's Edge (book 4).
Just a brief review of birth control, how we use it, and why it is so important to women's rights.
In case you were wondering why Jen talked about "no one ever has to go to the bathroom." It's a thing. Sarah accused Jen of RUINING ROMANCE, but clearly that's not the case because here we are.
More about lightning and planes.
Chicago's Bubbly Creek. That's real. If you ever want to nerd out on this history, Jen recommends a book called Nature's Metropolis. Honestly, you really have no idea how fascinating grain elevators are.
The short and incomplete list of magical items introduced in this book: Kaderin gives the Furies armor that can't be pierced and a battle axe that can kill Lore beings without having to behead them. The New Zealand coven of Valkyeries has a choker that allows the person wearing it to sing a siren's song. No one knows what happend to the armband that makes the wearer feel overwhelming sexual desire. Amphitrite's tear is a bead that will heal any wound. The Blade of Honorius never misses its target. Thrane's Key was the time-traveling prize in this Hie, and at the end of the book, Riora gives Sebastian one to use at his discretion.
Deus Ex Machina is fun to say, but kind of a bummer when that's how an author gets her characters out of a jam.
All the cool vampires from the mid-2000s carry RAZR phones.
Diamonds are a construct, just like virginity.
Sarah is pro-Kardashian.
Bowen & Mariketa are coming up next, but the thing she was excited about at the end of that book actually happened at the end of Dark Needs at Night's Edge.
Swineherds vs. shepherds, and the only time Jen ever felt truly understood on Reddit.
The Battle of Evermore by Led Zeppelin, and if you think Jen wasn't dying to update Genius with this Kresley Cole reference, you don't know her at all. But maybe the video is more your speed.
