S04.37: Groveling in Romance Novels
If there isn’t a grovel, is it even a romance? This week, we’re getting to the bottom of one of our favorite moments in a romance novel — the grovel. Love it or hate it, some of the best loved books of the genre go all in on hero (because let’s face it, it’s almost always the hero) on his knees…and we are here. for. it. We talk about the hows and whys of the grovel, about the reasons we love it, about the difference between a grovel and a grand gesture, and about the books that installed this particular button for us.
This episode is sponsored by Janna MacGregor, author of Rules for Engaging the Earl, and Adriana Herrera, author of A Caribbean Heiress in Paris.
Show Notes
We love a good grovel here at Fated Mates, and back in 2018, Jen wrote an essay on groveling for #RomBkLove
Merriam Webster is the world’s greatest dictionary.
We don’t come from chimpanzees, but we do have a common ancestor.
If you think a character hasn’t suffered enough, you can leave them in cold storage. You have the power!
Jen did the entire breakdown on Kiss an Angel with Erin & Clayton from Learning the Tropes
We did a deep dive on Milla Vane's A Heart of Blood and Ashes because we love it so much. We also did episodes on Lothaire, Sweet Ruin and The Master. The first five seconds of the Sweet Ruin epsiode are a straight shot of Sarah's joy, if you are looking for that sort of thing.
More about the problem of captive (and presumably lacking telepathic prowess) Tigers in America.
Molly Bloom totally would love a good romance novel, btw.
The American President is a pretty great movie, but it also came out back in 1995 when we some of us were still capable of positive feelings about politicians.
Our next read along is The Dragon and the Jewel by Virginia Henley.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
This week’s episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by:
Janna MacGregor, author of Rules for Engaging an Earl, available at
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local independent bookseller.
Or get the book in Audio wherever audiobooks are sold.
Visit jannamacgregor.com
and
Adriana Herrera, author of A Caribbean Heiress in Paris, available at
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local independent bookseller.
revA
S03.33: Age Gap Romance
Silver foxes, May/December, older heroines/younger heroes. Look, Sarah’s buttons were installed young, OK? We’re talking age gap romances, how they played out in the early days of the genre, how they remain popular today, and what has happened (or not!) in the books to make them viable in 2021. We try to keep this one taboo but not dark, sexy but not erotic…but by the end, we’re not making any real promises.
Check all your Content Warnings before you begin with these books!
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you. We hope you’re reading the best books this week.
Next week, we’re reading Kresley Cole’s debut, The Captain of All Pleasures. Neither of us have read it, so we’re all jumping into the deep end without a mask on this one! Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books. Or find it from your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
You can buy Iris Johansen’s mansion in Cartersville, GA for a cool 8 million.
Maybe Chaotic Evil isn’t the best writing plan.
Here’s some pop psychology about the May December romance. By the way, the phrase May-December romance apparently dates back to Chaucer. In The Merchant’s Tale, a young woman named May marries a much older man and a confusing idiom was born.
As it turns out the “half your age plus 7” rule is not something Jen made up, because once you google it, you get charts and graphs and articles and everything.
Sarah’s reference to “Every terrifying post on that reddit board” is r/relationships, although r/amitheasshole is always available with some new tale of terrifying bad behavior.
This problems presented from lack of sex ed are pervasive though historical romance, but how much better are we doing by our kids?
Jen was talking about Marvin Gaye when she mentioned "Everybody wants their own piece of clay" shit.
Diana Palmer has a long, storied romance career, and none of it involves that kind of DP. The first book in the Long Tall Texans series, Calhoun, was published in 1988, and the latest one is #57 in the series, Texas Proud, and was published in October of 2020.
All joking about the Pioneer Woman aside, she does have some great recipes.
It turns out that the “boiling frog” analogy is just a myth, so keep on reading!
The movie Carol is based on Patricia Highsmith’s The Price of Salt.
The Jessa Kane book with the dirty version of the talk is called His Prize Pupil, in case you want to read it yourself. For science.
Our next read-along episode will be The Captain of All Pleasures by Kresley Cole. If you want more Kresley, all of Season One is for you.
Books Mentioned in This Episode
S03.31: Morality Chain Romance
We’re so thrilled to be talking morality chain romance! We’ve owed this episode to Katee Robert for nearly a year, and we have no excuses for how long this has taken, except that time in 2020 was a flat circle. Here, we get down to business—we tackle the definition of Morality Chain, and how it differs from Dark Romance, how it connects with mafia, criminals, pirates, highwaymen, and the original Alpha.
Check all your Content Warnings before you begin with these books!
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you. We hope you’re reading the best books this week.
Next week, we’re reading Alexis Daria’s You Had Me At Hola, one of our Best Books of 2020! Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
One very important note: we highly recommend doing a thorough search for content warnings for all the books and movies we mention this week.
We love Katee Robert, who we had on as a guest for the menage interstitial. Katee bid on this item at Kennedy Ryan’s Lift 4 Autism auction. It happens every spring, so keep an eye on this page for the 2021 auction if you’d like to pick the topic for a future interstitial.
This week, Katee released Seducing My Guardian, the 4th book in her SUPER HOT Touch of Taboo series. If you'd like to read a morality chain romance written by Katee, we recommend The Bastard's Bargain.
“In springtime, the only pretty ring time” is from Shakespeare’s As You Like It. It's also possible Sarah knows it from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. She would like you to believe that it's from the former, but we'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. Either way, “If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it,” is from Beyonce.
As it turns out, Chicago is a great town for beach volleyball.
It’s hard not to talk about morality chain & dark romance together, but we think they are inverse tropes. The internet definition of Morality Chain is “is a character who is the reason another character is Good.” Jen and Sarah’s current definition is that in morality chain romance, the Love Interest pulls a hero towards humanity and goodness, while in dark romance, the love interest is pulled down into the hero’s lawless world.
Some examples in pop culture are Spike from Buffy and maybe Barney in How I Met Your Motherr. Also, check out a movie called The Professional, where a child (played by Natalie Portman!) befriends the assassin next door. The Jason Statham one with a kid is called Safe.
The Hero’s Journey is very common character archetype in literature and pop culture, but Sarah and Jen are both very taken with Gail Carriger’s description of the alternative archetype, The Heroine’s Journey.
If you want more about morality chain, so many of Kresley’s books from The Immortals After Dark series will work, so please listen to season one! Our favorites are Dark Needs at Night’s Edge, Lothaire, and Sweet Ruin.
We were divided on whether the character has to be a danger to others in order to qualitfy as morality chain. In the Gamemaker series: The Professional is about an assassin who is a danger to others, while in The Player he’s only a danger to himself.
Jen Porter wrote a long thread about what she thinks of as PEA, or problematic ever after, romance.
Mickey is "kind of a Fagin-y" as a character, but without the antisemitism. In interesting historical facts, Dickens rewrote Oliver Twist later in life to remove all anti-Semitic characteristics from Fagin, after he'd been criticized for the portrayal of the character. Of course, it's not that simple. Read more about it from Deborah Epstein Nord.
Scottie is the main character of Managed, and is classified more as grumpy one/sunshine one, which we argue is just morality chain dialed down.
More about how most writers have a “core story."
Next week, we'll be reading You Had me at Hola by Alexis Daria
MUSIC: Cardi B - Money
Six Minutes with Sarah
We're on hiatus until September, when we'll start Season 2, but here is a quick hi from Sarah, with a story from her trip to the UK that only Fated Mates listeners will appreciate.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting app so you know the moment we return!
Show Notes
George & Dragon Inn, Clifton, Penrith, UK
Hugh Lowther, proper reprobate and 5th Earl of Lonsdale
15: How Is She Even Able To Walk? - The Master
We’re back with The Game Makers Series this week — talking with the wonderful Sophie Jordan about her favorite book in the series, The Master! Starring Maxim Sevastyan and the first-time escort who lays him flat (in all ways), This one has all the insane sex stuff of the last Game Makers book, now with birth control insanity, and a sweet nod to holiday traditions…and a trip into the Internet to look at chastity belts.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, IT IS HAPPENNNINNNGGGGG! We have reached Sweet Ruin, Sarah’s favorite book in the IAD series, and she is BEYOND EXCITED to talk about her favorite Kresley hero and the magnificent, perfect heroine who refuses to back down from their fated matehood. Block off some time, as we can’t guarantee this will be anything near a normal length episode! Read Sweet Ruin at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie. Also, we promise you won’t be disappointed by the audio of this one!
Show Notes
Welcome Sophie Jordan!
You should listen to the Wicked Wallflowers podcast where Sophie talks about her Game Makers Series theory.
The politics of lane-sharing at the pool are more complicated then you'd think!
In case you don't know what pendejo means.
ICYMI: one of our first interstitials was about the escort trope.
I guess we did learn more about what Christian was thinking when she fell over the threshold in that 50 shades sequel, Grey.
Is there really a morning after shot?
The Smart Bitches gave The Master a D! /clutches pearls
If you haven't read Lord of Scoundrels, you should.
I decide who is a Pretty Woman quote. Of course.
The Robin Hood Men in Tights chastity belt, or iron underwear as it's more commonly known.
Sophie's upcoming book is The Duke's Stolen Bride.
You can preorder signed copies of Brazen and the Beast from Word in Brooklyn. You can download Wicked and the Wallflower for $2 all of June.
"That great Kerrigan Byrne Newgate one" is called The Highwayman.
Bitch Planet is an amazing comic.
Sweet Ruin is coming!
11: Woof. Hope Your Headphones Didn't Fall Out! - Lothaire
Lothaire is here! We’re so excited, we don’t know what to do with ourselves, but FYI, this is a longer episode than usual -- so get ready! We're talking morality chain romance, how Lothaire is a pure ass but incredibly funny, and how Ellie is pretty much the only mate he could ever have. Also, we love Nix & Lothaire a lot.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, one of our favorite people, Sierra Simone, is joining us to talk about The Full Kresley, and MacRieve! It's going to be a great time, we promise. Get MacRieve at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
Learn about tone-policing so you won't make Jen mad.
Maybe we haven't recommended audiobook narrator Robert Petkoff to you enough.
Justine Eyre is the audiobook narrator who was nominated for an Audie for Sarah's book Never Judge a Lady by her Cover.
Love Between the Covers is an amazing documentary about romance, and you might be able to find it on Netflix.
Everyone knows the difference between hardback and paperback books, but learn the difference between mass-market and trade paperbacks.
During the Lothaire bus tour, Kresley wrote her fans this Facebook letter about the experience.
Paul Marron is a very handsome man.
The morality chain trope. 0 Other famous series with villains-turned-heroes include Lisa Kleypas's Wallflowers (Devil in Winter), Elizabeth Hoyt's Maiden Lane (Duke of Sin), and Sarah's Scandal & Scoundrel (Day of the Duchess).
Italy discovers what happens when everyone is raising a mammone.
Lothaire breaks his life up into tasks, sort of like Hugh Grant in About a Boy.
When Robert Downey Jr. starred as Sherlock Holmes, he can forecast the moves his opponents will make in a fight.
On Twitter, Melanie did a very thorough count of all the times Lothaire punched a wall.
Lothaire is very funny. Andie Christopher, friend of the pod, is very pro his cock slapping gnomes joke.
Old Friends is a very sweet song by Simon & Garfunkle, even if you aren't learning to play the ukulele.
Check out the Romance Sparks Joy read-along on Twitter and Facebook. Get M. Malone's Bad Blood for the April 15th Read!
MacRieve will be next, and Sierra Simone will be joining us!
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (7)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
- After receiving Lothaire's heart in a box, Ellie cuts off her middle finger and sends it to him. (Lothaire)
Chest and Torso (7)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- On Torture Island, Regin,
- MacRieve,
- and Brandr are vivisected. It's pretty terrible. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Declan's skin is peeled off by the Neoptera as a child. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Lothaire rips out his own heart and sends it to Ellie in a box. (Lothaire)
Head, Face, and Eyes (5)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lothaire kicks out La Dorada's remaining eye and throws her over a cliff. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- In the Bloodroot Forest, the tree grows over Lothaire's lips and tongue. (Lothaire)
Horns (2)
- Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (4)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. Garreth promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
- Declan fights and beheads several creatures as they escape Torture Island, including squeezing one dude so hard his eyes pop out and then he twists his head off. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Beheading as a Non-Romantic Gesture (2)
- Ellie cuts off Lothaire's head, leaving a slender 1/8 of an inch left. It was kind of an accident, but he deserved it. (Lothaire)
- In the fight with Ruelle, MacRieve and Munro's mother is beheaded by a envenomed vampire boy. Their father then beheads the vampire. Ruelle is also killed. (MacRieve)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- When Soroya inhabited Ellie's body, she subjected her to a full Brazilian wax. Ellie doesn't realize it's happened until she takes control of her body again. (Lothaire)
10: Declan Chase is Kinda Trying: Dreams of a Dark Warrior
Mr. Vivisection is here, and it’s a whole lot! Regin the Radiant is on Torture Island, and just her luck, the guy running the whole show is a berserker reincarnate who she’s loved in five earlier lifetimes. Declan Chase is a highly controversial Kresley hero, and Dreams of a Dark Warrior is a book Sarah and Jen always skip on the reread…but this week, we’re talking about it and *gasp!* we’re kind of on #TeamDeclan by the end?! UP IS DOWN!
This episode, we’re digging into the way Kresley builds characters and lays the brickwork for the rest of the IAD series. We’re talking about torture, about childhood, about packing for the end of days, and about Lothaire’s Guide to Wooing Women. We’re joined by the wonderful Sarah Hawley, co-host of the Wicked Wallflowers podcast, and Declan-stan.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, strap in because Lothaire. Is. Here!!! We’re so excited we don’t know what to do with ourselves, but FYI, this is gonna be a double episode for SURE. Gird your loins. Get Lothaire at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In Salman Rushdie's novel Haroun and the Sea of Stories, juggling is often used as a symbol for storytelling.
There's not much better than a snowed-in romance. Or maybe marriage in trouble is more your speed.
"That just happened" is a quote from a very funny scene of a movie with Alec Baldwin called State and Main.
Mr. and Mrs. Smith and the single sexiest hate fuck ever filmed. /fans self
The heist movie slow walk is iconic.
Villains as heroes: hard to write, delicious to read.
Sarah Silverman interviewed a woman who escaped from the cult of The Westboro Church.
Talia Hibbert had to quit this one.
The Lord of the Rings Ring is super fancy. And super creepy.
Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame has a TED talk. Of course he does.
Welcome to Sarah Hawley from The Wicked Wallflowers Podcast
Kylo Ren is Han & Leia's jerk son. Presumably he'll get a redemption arc, but the jury is out on whether he deserves it.
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo is a good book and a great movie. Don't at Sarah (MacLean).
The Morality Chain trope, and some romance examples.
White Satin by Iris Johansen. "I think it's time for beer," is what FDR said after while the country was deep in the Great Depression before he sent word to Congress that he wanted to end Prohibition.
Lothaire is coming, and just clear your whole day for what will likely be a three hour podcast. Also, maybe you want to brush up on The Odyssey (free for Kindle).
A huge shout out to Heather Pagan, who helped us with medieval French and edits the Anglo Norman Dictionary. Here’s the official translation of the Medieval French, along with some fascinating notes on historical swearing, which you all know is our favorite!
Go copulate with a pig - Va foutre un porcel! (literally, go fuck a pig). Unless the joke is that they are being formal (ie. copulate and not fuck) in which case: Va couvrir un porcel!
You defend that rampart female? - Femme / Dame, defendis tu le terrail?
To the death, prick*! - Jusqu'a / A la mort, ribaud! OR Jusqu'a / A la mort, paillard! OR Jusqu'a /A la mort, pautener!
* There are lots of words for penis/prick in Old French, but I don't have any evidence that they were used as insults (and that's a whole 'nother book about when we began to use genitalia as offensive words...) I've chosen to translate it with a bunch of words that mean 'jerk'. The words I used are all ones that end up being borrowed into English (ribald, pailliard, pautener) for someone who is base / rascally / a scoundrel / someone of low status etc.
Thoughts (or why you never ask an academic for a translation...) We actually don't know overly much about medieval swearing. What we know about language use during the period is based on what was written down, and what was written down (gross generalization ahead) tended not to be 1) direct / indirect speech or 2) of a less formal register. Nevertheless, we do have some record of what people said, and in some cases, how they would curse each other. A lot of these curses were be religious in nature - damning them, accusing them of bad faith etc. We have one amazing set of texts, referred to as the Manieres de Language, which were an early type of phrase book for Englishmen wanting to learn French in the late fourteen century. These include my favourite section - insults! So this is mainly what the translation is based on - though insults of the time were a bit different.
Here are some from the phrase book (translated): You're lying, you evil bastard; Go hang yourself, you bastard; Go away you bloody son of a whore; You will pay!; Kiss my ass (I am very pleased that this has been the eternal insult!); Kiss the devil's ass; Go to the devil!
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (6)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
Chest and Torso (5)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- On Torture Island, Regin,
- MacRieve,
- and Brandr are vivisected. It's pretty terrible. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Declan's skin is peeled off by the Neoptera as a child. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Face and Eyes (4)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lothaire kicks out La Dorada's remaining eye and throws her over a cliff. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Horns (2)
- Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (4)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. Garreth promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
- Declan fights and beheads several creatures as they escape Torture Island, including squeezing one dude so hard his eyes pop out and then he twists his head off. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
9: Torture Island!!! - Demon from the Dark
Torture Island is here and we could not be more excited! Demon from the Dark is Jen’s favorite book in the series, because she loves poor, broken Malkom, the vemon with a heart of gold, and his fated mate, Carrow, our second witch, whose powers come from other people’s joy.
This episode, we’re digging into the worldbuilding of the second movement of IAD — Torture Island. We’re talking about innocence and how it is a great motivator, what saves a heroine from being unlikeable, why bathing is sexy, and how we really would like it if more men offered up the heads of our enemies as tribute. As always, there’s a lost-limb count and Lothaire-Watch!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, get ready for the most (we think?) controversial of the IAD books — Dreams of a Dark Warrior, when Declan Chase, unknowing berserker and magister of Torture Island, gets paired with Regin the Radiant. Get DoaDW at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In the 1976 movie Rocky, one of the things he consumes during training in a glassful of raw eggs.
Jen loves books about nuclear weapons and nuclear disasters, and the mindset of the Order is very much that of mutually assured destruction during the Cold War.
In Buffy, it was called the Initiative. Angel, Riley, and Spike were her boyfriends on the show, but in the comic there are other lovers.
Your brain isn't fully cooked until you're 25!
Duolingo helps you learn languages, but if you're in a hurry just drink down somebody's blood.
Sarah's friend Natalie Parker's book is called Seafire and it has the most gorgeous cover.
Book Riot makes the case for a Romantic Horror subgenre, and Victoria Helen Stone wrote about the relationship between romance and suspense.
Some information from Pew about rural vs urban living in America.
Adventures in Babysitting is an 80s movie all about the horrors of some kids and their babysitter getting into trouble in the big, bad city of Chicago (or, as Jenny Holiday & Jen call it: Dirty Toronto).
You can tell a lot about a culture by its parenting.
Pygmalion and Encino Man.
Some directions for any tailsman-making endeavors.
Lore parenting tips aside, Jen wrote once about how human parents can talk to their kids about sex.
Maybe 28 Days Later isn't the best metaphor for IAD, but it's a scary movie.
Jen loves it when heroes grovel.
A vemon is a vampire/demon hybrid; Venom is a Tom Hardy movie.
If Jen knew photoshop, she'd be putting Malkolm inside a Sweet Valley High circle... Demon Love!
Yao Ming is very tall compared to Kevin Hart, but Jason Momoa and Lisa Bonet are much better fancasting for Malkolm and Carrow.
Friend of the Pod Adriana Herrera was on our sister podcast Wicked Wallflowers last week.
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (6)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
Chest and Torso (2)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Face and Eyes (3)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Horns (2)
Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark) ** Legs and Feet (3)**
Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (3)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. He promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ (Pleasure of a Dark Prince).
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
1: We're Gonna Come Back to Biting - A Hunger Like No Other
Sarah & Jen talk A Hunger Like No Other, why reading Alphas in 2018 is a tricky situation, how Kresley instantly changed the game with Lachlain MacRieve, and why Emma's bite sets the standard for the whole series.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, a like would be awesome!
Our next read (in two weeks) will be No Rest for the Wicked — the story of Sebastian Wroth (vampire) and Kaderin the Cold-Hearted (valkyrie), and the beginning of the IAD Amazing Race mini-arc!
Show Notes
Why do people hate the word moist?
There really are catacombs below Paris, and they seem very creepy.
Co-ed is a more dated word than you'd expect. According to the Oxford English dictionary, it's been in use since the 1880s. Game, set, and match to The Independent, which printed the following sentence in 1903: "Any college where the girls are commonly called ‘co-eds’ is not a truly co-educational institution."
The TSTL trope in romance heroines.
The Fated Mates trope.
Maybe you all missed the Kavanaugh hearings. I love myself, so we'll just stick to one informative infographic.
Jen's romance book club at 57th Street Books in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. If you're not in Chicago, bookstores and libraries across the country and online will be participating in The Great Big Romance Read in December 2018. Find your people!
Romance isn't the only genre examining old favorites through the lens of #MeToo. Molly Ringwald looked back at John Hughes and The Breakfast Club in The New Yorker. This podcast from WNYC is about pop culture in the #MeToo era.
The list of RITA award winners, sorted by year.
A million articles have been written about Twilight, but I like this one that looks at the big themes that bubble up time and time again.
Alisha Rai has said lots of smart things about toxic masculinity, as it turns out.
Representation in BDSM matters.
Take a crash course in modernity.
A brief overview of Cassandra from Greek mythology.
The Devil in Winter, because everyone loves to read about a sex deal.
According to The Smart Bitches, a magic hoo-hah is "shorthand for the equally illustrious and many powers of the female sex organ, specifically the vagina. The Magic Hoo-Hoo tames the Mighty Wang, and becomes the magnetized true north for the hero’s trouser compass from the point of their first sexual coupling. The Magic Hoo-Hoo brings the hero to monogamous attachment, because after experiencing it, the hero will not be satisfied with anything or anyone else."
I'm sure everyone wants to learn more about moon phases.
Fury is an actual furie.
When we say Lothaire was a big deal, we mean there was an actual Lothaire bus touring around America.
Are you ready for No Rest for the Wicked?
