S06.25: It's Romance Law!
Y’all enjoyed Romance Science so much, we figured, why not tackle romance law next! This week, we’re discussing wills and trusts, inheritances, guardianship, and more than a few HR violations! We also begin the episode with an important addendum to Romance Science (apologies to the Passion fans in the crowd).
There’s still time for you to join us for Fated Mates LIVE in Brooklyn, NY, at the gorgeous William Vale Hotel, on March 23rd, along with Kate Clayborn, Lauren Billings (one-half of Christina Lauren), Nikki Payne, and a roomful of other romance-obsessed listeners for a night of romance shenanigans at a live taping of Fated Mates! While we’re never sure quite how it’s going to go, we can guarantee there will be books, booze and bantr…and you’ll leave full of joy from all the fun. We’ve even got The Ripped Bodice on hand to sell books, and the room will be available for hanging with other Firebirds after the live! Preorder Kate’s The Other Side of Disappearing three days early (and books from everyone else!) from The Ripped Bodice—links, tickets and more info are at fatedmates.net/live.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Our next read along is Heather Guerre’s Preferential Treatment, one of Sarah’s favorite romances of 2022. Get it at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
Show Notes
Listen to the Romance Science episode.
Pride & Prejudice won the 2024 romance bracket, hosted by Ali Parker of the RomEverAfter Pod.
Romance biology addendum: the hymen, the Passion episode.
Romance Law probably started with our love of TV Law: LA Law, Ally McBeal, The Good Wife, and Law & Order.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Madison Score, author of Bride or Die,
available at Amazon, or with your subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
Chayla Wolfberg, author of Late Night Love,
available at Amazon, or with your subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
Alyxandra Harvey, author of The Husband Heist,
available at Amazon, or with your subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S03.17: The Hating Game by Sally Thorne: Lucy! Obviously Danny didn't send the roses!
There aren’t many recent romances you can point to and categorically label as game changers, but Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game definitely fits this bill. We talk about all the ways we love it, about sparkling dialogue and witty writing and what makes a romcom and how this book changed the cover game for a generation of romance. Oh, and yes, we get to the bottom (jk, there is no bottom) of Jen’s issues with first-person present.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order before December 5th for Christmas delivery!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial, and the following week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Fated States
Show Notes
Bridget Jones’s Diary came out in 1996 and the movie came out in 2001.
Enemies to Lovers is a completely beloved romance trope. Rivals to lovers lives within the larger trope and is very fun because it is often a perfectly matched pair on an even playing field. Sarah wrote Brazen & the Beast after being inspired by The Hating Game.
Here’s what we mean when we say situational comedy.
Jen hates present tense, but of course everyone should write what’s right for them.
Is it chick lit or is it women’s fiction? Why do these labels even exist? Just go back and read The Girl’s Guide to Hunting and Fishing or Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner.
We don’t talk about voice that much, but maybe we should.
There was a short lived Harlequin chick lit line called Red Dress Ink in 2001.
Here’s what Jen teaches her kids about characterization.
The Slate article about interiors and a very thorough rebuttal from Felicia Davin.
We talked about another hero who came up through Twilight fanfic.
If you like a scene where one main character tells off the family on behalf of their beloved, you should read Her Naughty Holiday by Tiffany Reisz.
In two weeks, we'll be reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. We are getting ready for Bridgerton and Wonder Woman 1984.
If you're interested in the Fated Mates Best of 2020 book pack and you want it delivered by Christmas, make sure you order it by 12/5.
S03.09: Christina Lauren on FanFiction and Romance: Blissward is How it Should Be
It’s joy month! We’ve got two of our very favorites with us — Christina Lauren is here with us to discuss fan fiction, romance, their romance origin stories, what they love about fic and how fic makes romance better! We talk about about a thousand books and authors, and do a little giggling too, so strap in!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 3 this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Fated States!
Join us this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin and make sure it turns up blue! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes! Sign up at the link, watch the video, and come hang out!
Remember: "Despair is not a strategy."
Call Your Senators. Tell them you want "the McConnell Rule" enforced.
Donate Donate Donate (if you can). We're thrilled to support "Get Mitch or Die Trying" via ActBlue -- donations to this are immediately split evenly between Senate candidates in elections
Vote early by mail if you are planning to vote by mail. Be sure to check that your ballot has all the correct information, and is returned accorting to the instructions (this goes double for people in NYC and Pennsylvania).
Show Notes
Christina Lauren has a new, delightful holiday romance out this week! Find In a Holidaze at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie.
When we recorded, the wildfire situation was particularly grim in California, and it’s still a huge problem facing many Western states. We hope you're all being safe out there.
A brief overview of CLo’s story from fandom to bestselling authors. The first of their published books came from Christina's fic "The Office," and was published as Beautiful Bastard. Sarah loves it a lot.
Wonder Woman 1984 has been postponed because of COVID, and according to the director the film is best seen in a theater. It is not because Robert Pattinson got COVID (He's back to business now). Sarah loves the preview of the new Batman movie.
Our love of Days of Lives couples Jack & Jennifer and Patch & Kayla is eternal and everlasting. (Ps. Jen's favorite scene is not in that video, her search continues.)
The Twilight fandom was vast, as we discussed in this episode. And there are important reasons why many folks are drawn to fandom. Last summer, Alexis Daria and Adriana Herrera talked about fanfiction and fandom on Instagram Live, and it's a great watch.
Christina and Lauren mentioned “canon” and “AU” and AO3 and livejournal and fandom bootcamp and maybe you want a primer on some fanfic terms.
Maybe you also need a primer on a cinnamon roll character.
These hugely popular romance writers came up through fanfic: Sally Thorne, Alice Clayton, Nina Bocci, Tara Sue Me, Amanda Weaver, Rebekah Weatherspoon, Helena Hunting, Daisy Prescott, EL James, and Ruth Clampett. Present-tense, stream of consciousness flow, and intense character work are some of the hallmarks of fandom writing, and some of those stylistic choices have influenced mainstream fiction in multiple genres, including romance.
Did you miss the community experience of The Submissive? Lucky for you, it's now available as a stand alone novel, and the next books in the series The Dominant and The Training also started as fic.
Christina and Lauren and Nina Bocci worked on the Fandom Gives Back fundraiser to benefit Alex’s Lemonade Stand.
Jen said she loves Beautiful Player, but honestly no one will be surprised that she got the title wrong and her real favorite is Beautiful Stranger. Just read all of them. You won't be disappointed.
The question of who owns these stories and the legalities of fanfic is so interesting, and specifically the history of Fifty Shades of Grey as Fanfic.
As promised, a list of CLo recommend fics:
Tropic of Virgo by in.a.blue.bathrobe (aka Kira Gold)
The Blessing and the Curse by theblackarrow (Sally Thorne)
The Best I Ever Had by whatsmynomdeplume
Mr. Horrible by algonquinrt
Creature of Habit by ezrocksangel
The Art Teacher by spanglemaker9
Summer of Salt by lolapops
A Murmur of Fire in the Vein
Scotch, Gin, and the New Girl by wtvoc
S03.03: Fifty Shades of Grey by EL James: Romance Has Gotten Hotter And I Think I Like It
If we’re going to talk about the last 10 years of romance — what we’d call modern romance — it’s basically impossible to do that out in the world without someone who doesn’t know much about the genre asking about EL James’s Fifty Shades of Grey. This week, Fated Mates is talking about Fifty Shades. Or, rather, we’re talking about what we're really talking about when we talk about Fifty Shades of Grey.
At no point in this discussion do we talk about tampons. You’re welcome.
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial for you! And the week after, we’re deep diving on Milla Vane’s A Heart of Blood and Ashes, which is a long fantasy romance. If you are a reader who needs content warnings, you might want to check out reviews on Goodreads.
Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Show Notes
There are honestly so many articles about Fifty Shades that Jen couldn't possibly even link to them. But the one about the increase in ER visits, necktie sales up 23%, and Jen wrote about the history of romance between Fabio and Fifty Shades.
Drunk Austen went through a rather spectacular break-up last week; we promise never to do this and swear we are full legal partners in our current venture.
Fanfiction brought Christina Lauren, Tara Sue Me, Sally Thorne and so many others to us. And lots of great BDSM was written after Fifty Shades by too many authors to count, but many think of The Original Sinners series by Tiffany Reisz as being truly excellent.
There's a reason why women hate dealing with car salesmen and mechanics. Jen wants you to know that if you're in Chicago and looking for a mechanic, the guys at Ashland Tire and Auto will never treat you like that.
Perhaps you're interested in whether or not Fifty Shades of Grey was copyright infringement?
The 2010 He-cession vs the 2020 she-cession.
Sarah reviewed Grey for the Washington Post, and just a few weeks ago, Midnight Sun (Twilight from Edward's Point of View was released.
Ope. We forgot to talk about Thomas Hardy, so just read this article from The Guardian instead.
Mrs. Robinson refers to a character in the 1967 film The Graduate.
Flat Stanley is a character in a children's book, but here we are talking about the theory that readers insert themselves into a book and become the main character. Many people believed that teenage girls reading Twilight imaged themselves as Bella, for example, but that's deeply rooted in misogny. In Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women, Laura Kinsale suggested that women reading romance imagine themselves as the hero rather than the heroine.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold a lot of fucking copies. A lot. A lot!
Lori Perkins was the editor of Fifty Writers on Fifty Shades of Grey. You can also check out Hard Core Romance: Fifty Shades of Grey, Bestsellers, and Society by Eva Illouz.
Jen refers to Christian as the Marlboro Man, a symbol of a kind of gruff, male, American renegade loner.
BDSM contracts are a thing!
Where does Kink come from? And what Fifty Shades gets right and wrong about kink and BDSM.
In two weeks: A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane. Has at The Book Pushers has a reviw with content warnings, so check that if you need to.
Sarah has a contemporary novella in the Naught Brits anthology which comes out September 15, preorder today!
S02.08: Competence & Careers in Romance
Today, we’re talking jobs in romance novels—why we love them, when we hate them, what’s the proper work/smooch balance, and what we mean when we say “competence porn.” This is a far reaching, many-rec episode that involves discussion of billionaires, of wealth, of power, of what Sarah means when she says heroes have to be kings, no matter what. We’ll also try to get to the bottom of what an Enterprise Holding, LTD is. Nah, that’s a lie, because who cares?! Oh, and stay tuned for Sarah’s treatise on the importance of local journalism.
Don’t forget to subscribe to Fated Mates in your favorite podcasting platform — subscriptions mean so much! While you’re there, please leave us a like or a review if you feel so inclined!
Next week, we’re taking you to blasphemy town! Or are we?! The read is Sarah’s pick, Sierra Simone’s Priest, which is an erotic romance in first-person hero POV, featuring a priest and an exotic dancer (NB: She is not Catholic). If sex in church is your concern, maybe skip this one, but also know that there’s a lot fo religious allegory in here that is fascinating and brilliant. Content warning for discussion of the Catholic Church and sexual abuse. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
Show Notes
Jen said fossils are boring. It wasn't a good look.
Defining competence porn.
Despite when Jen said, most sex toys are not made out of neoprene. And please be cautious about the sex toys you buy.
Imposter syndrome is the worst for everyone but these guys.
The Joanna Shupe book about the architect is actually called A Scandalous Deal.
If you do want to read books about fossils, Amanda Quick and Tessa Dare have them. Eloisa James does not. Manda Collins does. Sarah MacLean does not.
What's wrong with "Not Like Other Girls."
What's a bluestocking?
Doogie Howser was a doctor, not an astrophysicist.
How to avoid the "What do you do" question.
The recent Supreme Court case about the rights of queer people to work.
Sarah mentioned an article about how Americans haven't gotten a raise in 40 years, and Jen mentioned the struggle to stay in the middle class.
Lori Lightfoot won the Chicago mayor's election, but here's the story about her background and why Black Lives Matter activists are worried.
The thing Jen made into a job: writing about romance for Kirkus.
High School Musical 2 had the "I need a college scholarship" plot.
Jen really hated This is 40.
Are you in Chicago? Come to Jen's romance book club at 57th Street Books or at Love's Sweet Arrow.
Divorce has profoundly negative impact on women's financial security.
Sarah mentioned a twitter thread about mothers telling their daughter's to have separate money and why women get jewelry as wedding gifts.
All women work, even if they don't have a job outside the home.
An overwhelming majority of American school teachers are white women.
You should read Catch and Kill if you can, but the story about how it impacted Ronan Farrow's relationship is also interesting.
This week, caller Samantha from Kuala Lumpur recommends Spellbound by Nora Roberts.
Next up is Priest from Sierra Simone.
6.5: Freewheeling with Joanna Shupe: Enemies to Lovers Romance
This week, we’re having a fun, far-reaching conversation with the wonderful Joanna Shupe—who loves Kiss of a Demon King a whole lot, immediately saw the echoes of one of the most famous old school romances inside it, and came to talk to us about enemies to lovers romances, but ended up telling us all about that time she spent a lot of time researching penetrative sex in carriages. We had a great time, and hope you do, too!
Our next read-along episode will tackle the final two Wroth brothers with the two IAD novellas, The Warlord Wants Forever (Nikolai) & Untouchable (Murdoch), available in the Deep Kiss of Winter anthology! This will be the last time we tackle vampires until Lothaire, so get your fill!
A Note: There are two version of The Warlord Wants Forever — you want the most recent version.
Show Notes
Joanna Shupe writes delightful Gilded Age romances. Check out this twitter thread where Jen raved about A Daring Arrangement.
Sarah was hunting for that Lora Leigh book on Twitter.
Goodreads reviewers have feelings about Prisoner of My Desire.
Of course there's a YouTube channel of classic clips from Candid Camera.
Eleanor of Aquitaine is an amazing woman. The 1968 film The Lion in Winter stars Katherine Hepburn and Peter O'Toole.
Hot Island Nights is the prequel to Her Best Worst Mistake.
Jen also talked about A Matter of Disagreement on Twitter.
Consider this a placeholder in case Joanna shares links from her sex in a carraige research. Jen's a little afraid to google search that one.
A barouche is a real thing, and you can learn more about all of it at the Carriage Museum in Long Island.
We return to IAD next time with two Wroth brother novellas, the first is The Warlord Wants Forever (an earlier version of this was available in an anthology called Playing Easy to Get. It is not HUGELY different, so it's okay if you just have that one--we'll talk about the differences during the episode.) The second is called Untouchable and available in the Deep Kiss of Winter anthology.
