S03.40: Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart - Who Flies in White Linen?!
Continuing our conversation about Bright Bananas on the Romance Tree — this week we’re reading an extreme oldie, Anne Stuart’s Tangled Lies, famous for being a story about a heroine falling for her brother…except he’s not really her brother! It’s a RIDE. We talk about just how odd romance could be back in the day, about how this book might be an ancestor to dark romance, and about how alpha alpha heroes could really get. And then we talk about modern contemporary romance and how things are changing in traditional publishing.
Our next read along in some number of weeks (three? four?) is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org!
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
Bombshell comes out on Aug 24th. You should preorder it from WORD in Brooklyn, which will for sure come with some cool swag, including a special edition Fated Mates sticker. Best Friend Kelly did a Twitter poll asking people about their experiences ordering books + swag from Indie bookstores. Speaking of which, the art by Liz Parkes for The Soulmate Equation is the cutest!
You might need this page as you are reading Tangled Lies.
Speaking of books from your grandma’s attic, look at what HEAapologist found this week! If you want this feeling without having relatives cool enough to leave them lying around, just order a big lot of random romances from eBay. For individual titles, Jen thinks Thrift Books is better than Amazon because you don’t pay shipping for each individual title.
Rob Imes has a page on his blog where he keeps track of all the category lines through 1989. In the case of Tangled Lies, it was first published as Harlequin Intrigue #5, then it was rebranded in the Men Made in America series, and finally part of the Famous Firsts Collection that celebrated Harlequin's 60th anniversary.
Fiction DB is the place to do if you're looking for an author's backlist. Here is Anne Stuart's page, the one where the soldier and the nun have a baby together. Also, Catspaw.
Check out Adriana’s Instagram Live Series about telenovelas. Sarah was on to talk about Falcon Crest, because she imprinted on Lorenzo Llamas in his swim suit. His character's name was Lance Cumson. Sure.Speaking of Adriana, now is the time to preorder One Week to Claim it All. Jen and her brother Mike will be on to talk about Santa Barbara.
In case you don’t remember the movie Sneakers a very similar situation happens when Robert Redford is out for pizza in the 60s. And it looks like Jen & Sarah aren't the only ones who love this movie.
Why we were all afraid of piranhas and quicksand in the 80s. I don’t know why.
The Pondering Padre (from the original cover) looks like Friar Lawrence, but not like Friar Tuck. Please note: not that kind of Priest.
In the introduction, Anne Stuart mentioned being inspired by an old movie called Miss Tatlock's Millions (1948) but when it comes to "ope, maybe we're related" in pop culture, it seems hard not to talk about the influence of Flowers in the Attic and its famous incestual relationship. More recently, it was the Lannister twins in Game of Thrones or the folks in this Slate column.
In romance, it was more common that these attractions were the mark of villainous men lusting after their sisters, such as Prisoner of My Desire by Johanna Lindsey, and others by Bertrice Small and Stella Cameron. A more updated story is Mister Moneybags by Vi Keeland and Penelope Ward.
In film, along with Miss Tatlock's Millions, Sarah metioned Crimson Peak (2015), and Jen is kicking herself for not bringing up the terrific movie movie Lone Star (1996).
Jen wrote about paratext on Twitter, which of course turned into a cover conversation.
We have a lot of fun interviews with authors coming up in June, and our next read along (in a couple of weeks) will be Lead by Kylie Scott.
Vulture TV Critic Angelica Jade Bastién wrote a thread asking why she's bored, and wondering what happend to interesting failures. Donald Glover returned to Twitter to blame cancel culture for boring art, but then he canceled his own tweets later.
A few think pieces about why sexual content is being deplatformed on the: who is doing it, and who it impacts. I bet you're shocked to learn its about capitalism and right-wing politics. Why Sarah's Facebook group OSRBC keeps getting dragged into the net.
We have a lot of really fun guests coming up in the next few weeks: Tia Williams, Zoraida Cordova, and Nana Malone. Our next read along (at some point in June) will be Lead by Kylie Scott.
S03.39: The Soulmate Equation & Trope Death Match with Christina Lauren
It is release week for some of our favorite people, and we’re here to celebrate with them! Join us for a wild conversation about the books Jen refers to as “the brightest bananas on the tree” — each of us has selected a truly wild ride of a book, and we’re going to share them with you! We also talk about their fabulous new release, now Sarah’s favorite CLo book, The Soulmate Equation. Preorder it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Bookshop.org, or signed from Vroman’s bookstore!
Our next read along is out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly eye-widening Tangled Lies at your local library or via a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
If you'd like to order signed copies of The Soulmate Equation, check out Vroman's Bookstore or the other book shops on CLo's virtual book tour. Tonight, 5/19/2021, Christina and Lauren are celebrating the launch of The Soulmate Equation with Sarah, Xio Axelrod, and Rachel Epstein.
If you want to dive into the Theranos story, Lo recommends the book Bad Blood by John Carreyrou, and the New York Times has a list of recommended things to read and watch.
23 & Me and other DNA Ancestry tests can tell you some things: whether or not you think cilantro tastes like soap, and about the size of our hair follicles, but as of right now, science can’t tell you much about your fated mate, I mean soulmate.
Questions about the future of technology and how it intersects with humanity make for great television in shows like Black Mirror, The One, and Casual.
I don’t know, maybe you’ve heard about there being a fundamental incompatibility between science and religion, but others are pretty sure we can work it out.
If you’re not a sportsball fan, Michael Jordan is a kind of a big deal.
Aphrodisia was a short-lived Kensington imprint that focused on erotica and erotic romance, it ran from 2006 to 2014. Jen asked if it was Ellora’s Cave, which was another powerhouse erotic romance publisher that shuttered in 2014.
A satyr is a magical creature from Greek mythology, so we’re not sure if they 1) have two dicks and 2) if they are covered in soft fur. You’re going to have to use your own imagination.
We all hope that Nicholas the satyr is a little sexier that Mr. Tumnus from the movie version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
Slate had a woman asking for advice about her pandemic threesome with two brothers, and you can tell a romance reader didn’t write that advice, because probably they could work that out. Jen alerted Jenny Nordbak immediately, of course.
Are you also looking for monster fucking romances?
If you need a quick review on alpha traits, listen to our episode from season two.
Knotting isn't just for A/B/O, it's also in romance. Same with mPreg romances and DP (which no one has made a list of!), in case you need a primer. Lo is looking for a romance that she thinks is called Passionate Ink about an octopus shifter tattoo artist...Maybe? Christina wants your favorite mPreg romance recommendation. We'll also take marriage of convenience recs and secret scar recs if you're in the mood.
More about the word "quim" and how it was used in that Avengers movie.
Next up, Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart. Buy it used because it's not avaible as an eBook.
S03.38: Ravishing the Heiress by Sherry Thomas: She's Good
We’re talking Sherry Thomas’s beautiful, unrequited love/marriage of convenience story Ravishing the Heiress this week — we’ll talk about angst, about why we love yearning so much, about our feelings about heroes who are dummies, about homes vs. houses, and about Victorians being E X T R A.
Next week, we’re back with the delightful Christina Lauren to play a very fun game with bananas romance novels and celebrate the launch of their fabulous book (now Sarah’s favorite CLo book), The Soulmate Equation. Preorder it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Bookshop.org, or signed from Vroman’s bookstore!
We’re also going to announce our next read along now, because it’s out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly bananas Tangled Lies at your local library or via a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
This is the Eurographics Moon Puzzle that Jen is doing, and it’s too hard.
There is a very funny tweet thread trying to drag the Shadow and Bone TV show, but the replies are terrific.
Jen was texting Sarah in the middle of the night about Ravishing the Heiress, because of the angst!
Here’s an interview where Sherry Thomas talks about how reading romance influenced her as a writer.
We talked about time slip quite a bit on the episode for A Matter of Class by Mary Balogh.
Millie is 16 at the beginning of the book, and because Jen forgot to talk about it, she wrote a thread about Sherry’s deep respect for teenage girls.
A little bit about the history of tinned food and the rise of advertising in Victorian England.
All about the dormouse and keeping them as pets, if you’re into that sort of thing. Give us some credit for not making a joke about Of Mice and Men, thank you.
The Victorians were super extra. Here’s a primer on women in business in the Victorian era. Floriography is the Victorian name for the language of flowers, which ascribes meanings to flowers and plants. For example, chrysanthemums and lavender (and yes rosemary is for remembrance is from Hamlet) have very specific meanings. If you’re interested, check out the book Floriography: An Illustrated Guide to the Victorian Language of Flowers by Jessica Roux.
Bees that make honey from the nectar of lavender flowers is a different thing than people who make lavender-infused honey. Now you know!
Infidelity in Romance is tricky, and Sarah’s book Day of the Duchess is an example, and there really aren’t that many out there.
The myth of Cupid & Psyche in literature and art.
In Season 4 of The Crown, the scene where Camilla Parker-Bowles takes Diana is based in truth, but the name of the restaurant was not Menage a Trois.
Raise a glass to the incomparable Olympia Dukakis.
Next up, we’re dialing the banana phone with Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart.
Join BestFriendKelly’s Sticker of the Month Club. If you put Fated Mates in the note, she’ll send a free sparkly Fated Mates sticker. If you’re already a member, drop her a note and she’ll include it with your next sticker.
S03.37: Widows in Romance
We’re toppling TBRs this week with widow romances! We’re talking widows of all shapes and sizes…from virgin widows who murder their husbands in old school historicals to modern-day widows who are looking for love because they know how good it can be. If widow romances are your thing, we’re about to make you very happy!
Next week, we’re back with an interstitial, and in two weeks, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Sherry Thomas book —Ravishing the Heiress. Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
We’re also going to announce our next read along now, because it’s out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly bananas Tangled Lies at a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Widow Books
Notes
Last week, we talked about Big Pharma, and if you want more of that, read Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe. It’s about the Sackler family and how they made billions on Oxycontin which was a huge factor in the creation of the opioid epidemic.
Daisy Jones and the Six is a great novel, and the full-cast audiobook is supposed to be amazing. The Reese Witherspoon book club is the definition of the full glow-up.
Sarah made some Maple Oatmeal Muffins, and maybe you want the recipe. Why food bloggers include some pre-recipe chatter.
The question of freshman year dorm room decoration is of new significance to Jen since Lil Romance will be heading off to college in the fall. Might we recommend a Pulp Fiction movie poster or some Absolut Vodka ads?
If we’re talking skyscrapers, meaning buildings over 150M (about 500 feet) tall, when this was recorded in April of 2021, Cleveland has 4, Denver has 7, Chicago has 127, and New York has 284. According to wikipedia, only nine cities in the world have over 100 buildings 150M tall. The other seven are Hong Kong (355), Shenzhen (289), Dubai (201), Shanghai (163), Tokyo (158), Chongqing (127), and Guangzhou (118).
Check out the Sassy Podcast and the Babysitter’s Club. No, not that kind of babysitter.
We love the movie Widows.
The merry widow is an opera and a kind of sexy lingerie.
We did an episode on Prisoner of My Desire with Joanna Shupe way back in season one.
Primogeniture laws are all about who inherits titles and money and estates, and wasn't changed in England until 2013.
Apparently there are lots of misconceptions about Arabian horses.
More about Victorian era mourning requirements.
Historically you couldn’t marry your brother’s widow
All about gorillas and where the live, and actually it turns out a gorilla really could kill you in a fight. Sarah was on Learning the Tropes talking about The Earl Takes All, in case you need more of that.
Spoiler alert about The Power Broker in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
We have two read-along books in May. On the 12th, we’ll be reading Ravishing the Heiress by Sherry Thomas. On the 26th, we’ll be reading Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart. It’s out of print and not available as an eBook, so order a used copy from Amazon or ThriftBooks, or check out the audio.
Join the "Romance sticker of the month" club
Preorder Bombshell, which comes out August 24th.
S03.36: Whiteout by Adriana Anders: You and Me Against the World
This week, we’re tackling Romantic Suspense and reading one of our favorite books of 2020, Adriana Anders’s Whiteout! We talk about all the things romantic suspense has to nail (ha!) to knock it out of the park, why we would literally never be characters in a book set in Antarctica, and the wild feeling of reading a romantic suspense about a virus during a pandemic. Also Sarah talks about how much she loves Adriana Anders’s writing and recommends lots of backlist.
Next week, we’re back with an interstitial, and in two weeks, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Sherry Thomas book —Ravishing the Heiress. Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
Apparently Jen needs more sleep, or else it’s gonna be a real drag on future seasons of Fated Mates.
Jen tweeted about Whiteout a lot, put it on our Best of 2020 list, and even made a meme about it last week.
Reading a book about a virus during a pandemic is kind of wild!
Jen and Sarah are not campers, but we support you. We do like reading books about people doing extremely cold outside things: Into Thin Air, Into the Wild, and a new book on Jen’s TBR is The Next Everest by Jim Davidson.
Let Sandra Brown explain romantic suspense to you, and maybe you’d like to read Jack Reacher if you’re into that sort of thing.
We learned some things about Antarctica and staying warm while reading this book:
What is Polar Night? Was it just a coincidence that you released this episode concurrently with the onset of Polar Night in Antartica?
Outside of murdering people for their ice core samples, are people doing crimes in Antarctica?
Thanks to Amy, one of our listeners, we now know that Antarctica TikTok exists.
The two ice stations in the book McMurdo and Vostok are real research stations, and actually there are way more of these stations than you’d think.
Angel calls Ford the Iceman, but not that Iceman.
If you want to read more about racism and greed in American pharmaceutical companies, you might be interested in Empire of Pain, Patrick Radden Keefe’s new book about the Sackler family, about Pfizer and Moderna and the COVID vaccine, Henrietta Lacks, the Tuskegee experiments, medical colonialism, and the list goes on and on.
Big Bad Wolf by Suleikha Snyder isn’t a critique of big pharma, but it is a fierce critique of the American system of justice.
Chekhov's Gun is an axiom by the playwright about how props on stage must come into the plot.
You can still order the Fated Mates Best of 2020 pack from Old Town Books.
S03.35: Second Chance Romance with Priscilla Oliveras
We’re thrilled to be joined by the wonderful Priscilla Oliveras to talk about second chance romance and her new book (out next week!), Anchored Hearts. We talk about our favorite second chance romances and dig into the Venn diagram of second chance, marriage in trouble, secret baby, childhood sweethearts, and one night stands. We also talk about the hard truths of face transplants, the way characters in romance have to do their own emotional work, and how we love it when they remember every bit of a kiss from a decade before.
Preorder the delightful Anchored Hearts at Amazon, B&N, Apple, Kobo or from your local indie.
Next week, we’re we’re reading a romantic suspense—Whiteout by Adriana Anders. Find it at Amazon (free in KU!), Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local indie. You can also get it along with our other picks for best books of 2020 as part of the Fated Mates pack from Old Town Books in Alexandria, VA!
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Books We Discussed
Notes
Welcome Priscilla Oliveras! Her next novel, Anchored Hearts comes out next Tuesday, April 27th. You can order signed copies (bookplates) with recipe cards from Love’s Sweet Arrow. The first in the series, Island Affair, has the fake relationship trope.
Key West things Priscilla mentioned: the half marathon in January, and the Cuban restaurant El Mason de Pepe.
This Goodreads list of second chance romance has over a thousand titles!
Operation Peter Pan moved over 14,000 unaccompanied minors from Cuba to the US between 1960-1962.
We think cliff diving might be a bad idea.
In Wild Card and The Highwayman, the heroine doesn't recognize the hero, but the absolute pinnacle of this is the 1997 movie Face/Off with John Travolta and Nic Cage. You honestly have to see it to believe it.
Theodosia is a name we all know from Hamilton. Aaron Burr married Theodosia Bartow Prevost, and it was an age gap romance! she was a decade older than he was. Their daughter Theodosia was their only child to survive to adulthood.
Here is a very nice video of NWSL players sliding on their knees after scoring goals.
That person you liked in high school? You're the one that got away, not the other way around.
Next week, we'll be discussing Whiteout by Adriana Anders.
S03.34: Captain of All Pleasures by Kresley Cole: There's Only One Bunk
Rounding the corner on Season Three, and we’re missing Kresley Cole! This week, we read a book neither of us have read before — Kresley’s Captain of All Pleasures. A Victorian pirate book about a ship race. We talk about the magic of the debut romance, why pirates are often times icky, and why setting a book on a boat is risky business.
Next week, we’re back with an interstitial, and in two weeks, we’re reading a romantic suspense—Whiteout by Adriana Anders. Find it at Amazon (free in KU!), Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local indie.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
The requisite coronavirus chat: Sarah was very sick in 2020 and Kate and Jen did a “sickbed scenes” interstitial without her. Jen said someone is going to make a jingle out of “Fauci Ouchie” and it already happened.
Sarah’s upcoming book is available for pre-order. The title is Bombshell and it comes out August 24, 2021. You can read this interview with Sarah when EW did the cover reveal.
Check out Season one, which is all about Kresley Cole’s Immortals After Dark series.
Quite a few of Lisa Kleypas’s earliest novels are out of print and not available as eBooks, but you can probably find them used on eBay or Amazon.
Nine Rules to Break When Romancing a Rake is Sarah’s debut, you should read it.
Borders was a bookstore that closed in 2011. Goodreads was invented in 2007 but took a few years to become popular, but once it was bought by Amazon, it completely stagnated.
Sarah was probably talking about Malcolm Gladwell’s 10,000 hours of practice rule, but how many words would that actually be?
The Stephanie Plum series is now on book number 27, and all Jen has to say is #TeamRanger forever. Don’t @ her.
Here’s Kresley’s FictionDB page for a complete list of her books in order.
Ships vs. boats, if getting those names is important to you, I guess.
The Amazing Race arc of IAD takes place over two books, No Rest for the Wicked and Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night.
Again the Magic was actually published in 2004, a year after Captain of All Pleasures.
The golden age of pirates was between 1650 and the 1730s, and of course our actual knowledge of pirates and piracy is limited. But most recently, of course, there are the Somali pirates. The race in Captain of All Pleasures was probably based on the Great Tea Race of 1866.
Dr. Gunter has some information for you about the hymen.
Hattie ties Whit to a mast in Brazen and the Beast, in case you want more of that.
Next up, Whiteout by Adriana Anders.
S03.33: Age Gap Romance
Silver foxes, May/December, older heroines/younger heroes. Look, Sarah’s buttons were installed young, OK? We’re talking age gap romances, how they played out in the early days of the genre, how they remain popular today, and what has happened (or not!) in the books to make them viable in 2021. We try to keep this one taboo but not dark, sexy but not erotic…but by the end, we’re not making any real promises.
Check all your Content Warnings before you begin with these books!
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you. We hope you’re reading the best books this week.
Next week, we’re reading Kresley Cole’s debut, The Captain of All Pleasures. Neither of us have read it, so we’re all jumping into the deep end without a mask on this one! Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books. Or find it from your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
You can buy Iris Johansen’s mansion in Cartersville, GA for a cool 8 million.
Maybe Chaotic Evil isn’t the best writing plan.
Here’s some pop psychology about the May December romance. By the way, the phrase May-December romance apparently dates back to Chaucer. In The Merchant’s Tale, a young woman named May marries a much older man and a confusing idiom was born.
As it turns out the “half your age plus 7” rule is not something Jen made up, because once you google it, you get charts and graphs and articles and everything.
Sarah’s reference to “Every terrifying post on that reddit board” is r/relationships, although r/amitheasshole is always available with some new tale of terrifying bad behavior.
This problems presented from lack of sex ed are pervasive though historical romance, but how much better are we doing by our kids?
Jen was talking about Marvin Gaye when she mentioned "Everybody wants their own piece of clay" shit.
Diana Palmer has a long, storied romance career, and none of it involves that kind of DP. The first book in the Long Tall Texans series, Calhoun, was published in 1988, and the latest one is #57 in the series, Texas Proud, and was published in October of 2020.
All joking about the Pioneer Woman aside, she does have some great recipes.
It turns out that the “boiling frog” analogy is just a myth, so keep on reading!
The movie Carol is based on Patricia Highsmith’s The Price of Salt.
The Jessa Kane book with the dirty version of the talk is called His Prize Pupil, in case you want to read it yourself. For science.
Our next read-along episode will be The Captain of All Pleasures by Kresley Cole. If you want more Kresley, all of Season One is for you.
Books Mentioned in This Episode
S03.32: You Had Me at Hola by Alexis Daria: A Textbook for Human Relationships
We named Alexis Daria’s You Had Me At Hola one of the best romances of 2020, and for good reason. This week, we’re talking about how great romances can be handbooks for great relationships, about why taking risks in romance writing can pay off big time, about what it’s like to be bilingual in America, about why intimacy coordinators are amazing, and about normalizing lube. Enjoy!
Next week, we’re back with an interstitial, and in two weeks, we’re reading…honestly, we don’t know. Stay tuned! Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
If you need to manifest, Sarah's surprise crystal kit came from Crystal Rising.
We had a Best of 2020 box available from Old Town Books in Alexandria, and it looks like you can still order it. You can listen to the whole Best of 2020 episode here.
The Applying to College Reddit is probably not a real healthy place for high school seniors to hang out, so I guess if you must, you can be the person who just says reassuring nice things. But if nothing else, portal astrology shows just how desperate people are to make meaning out of the tiniest of clues.
Telenovelas vs. soap operas.
The bilingual spectrum--from receptive to equilingual--and the ways that this is a particularly American issue. Jasmine in YHMAH is a dominant bilingual (so is Sarah). The ways in which writers put languages on the page has changed a lot in the past decade. Watch this video of author Daniel Jose Older explaining why he doesn’t put Spanish in italics.
In the movie Selena, there’s a scene where her father worries about her Spanish skills as she is about to meet Mexican reporters. Although this scene may not be accurate, Selena learned the phonetic Spanish for all her songs since she wasn’t fluent. A more recent series about Selena’s life is on Netflix, check for reviews because neither of us have watched it.
Being an Intimacy coordinator is a real job!
Breaking the 4th Wall is a phrase from TV when the actors directly address the audience. In You Had me at Hola, we see Jasmine or Ashton fall out of character and become themselves during the filming of a scene.
The Penn & Teller cup and ball trick, which we also talked about in the Bet Me Episode.
Little Red Corvette and Sugar Walls are songs about sex, so don't worry about the pop music your kids are listening to these days. It's all gonna be fine.
S03.31: Morality Chain Romance
We’re so thrilled to be talking morality chain romance! We’ve owed this episode to Katee Robert for nearly a year, and we have no excuses for how long this has taken, except that time in 2020 was a flat circle. Here, we get down to business—we tackle the definition of Morality Chain, and how it differs from Dark Romance, how it connects with mafia, criminals, pirates, highwaymen, and the original Alpha.
Check all your Content Warnings before you begin with these books!
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you. We hope you’re reading the best books this week.
Next week, we’re reading Alexis Daria’s You Had Me At Hola, one of our Best Books of 2020! Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
One very important note: we highly recommend doing a thorough search for content warnings for all the books and movies we mention this week.
We love Katee Robert, who we had on as a guest for the menage interstitial. Katee bid on this item at Kennedy Ryan’s Lift 4 Autism auction. It happens every spring, so keep an eye on this page for the 2021 auction if you’d like to pick the topic for a future interstitial.
This week, Katee released Seducing My Guardian, the 4th book in her SUPER HOT Touch of Taboo series. If you'd like to read a morality chain romance written by Katee, we recommend The Bastard's Bargain.
“In springtime, the only pretty ring time” is from Shakespeare’s As You Like It. It's also possible Sarah knows it from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. She would like you to believe that it's from the former, but we'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. Either way, “If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it,” is from Beyonce.
As it turns out, Chicago is a great town for beach volleyball.
It’s hard not to talk about morality chain & dark romance together, but we think they are inverse tropes. The internet definition of Morality Chain is “is a character who is the reason another character is Good.” Jen and Sarah’s current definition is that in morality chain romance, the Love Interest pulls a hero towards humanity and goodness, while in dark romance, the love interest is pulled down into the hero’s lawless world.
Some examples in pop culture are Spike from Buffy and maybe Barney in How I Met Your Motherr. Also, check out a movie called The Professional, where a child (played by Natalie Portman!) befriends the assassin next door. The Jason Statham one with a kid is called Safe.
The Hero’s Journey is very common character archetype in literature and pop culture, but Sarah and Jen are both very taken with Gail Carriger’s description of the alternative archetype, The Heroine’s Journey.
If you want more about morality chain, so many of Kresley’s books from The Immortals After Dark series will work, so please listen to season one! Our favorites are Dark Needs at Night’s Edge, Lothaire, and Sweet Ruin.
We were divided on whether the character has to be a danger to others in order to qualitfy as morality chain. In the Gamemaker series: The Professional is about an assassin who is a danger to others, while in The Player he’s only a danger to himself.
Jen Porter wrote a long thread about what she thinks of as PEA, or problematic ever after, romance.
Mickey is "kind of a Fagin-y" as a character, but without the antisemitism. In interesting historical facts, Dickens rewrote Oliver Twist later in life to remove all anti-Semitic characteristics from Fagin, after he'd been criticized for the portrayal of the character. Of course, it's not that simple. Read more about it from Deborah Epstein Nord.
Scottie is the main character of Managed, and is classified more as grumpy one/sunshine one, which we argue is just morality chain dialed down.
More about how most writers have a “core story."
Next week, we'll be reading You Had me at Hola by Alexis Daria
