S03.20: Romance Families
It's the holidays and we're talking family romances because many of us are with our families or thinking about them this week. No matter whether you have a perfect family life or one that's a bit more of a journey, romances focusing on families have been around from the beginning -- this week, we're talking royal houses like the Westmorelands and the Malorys, the LeVeqs and the Montgomeries, and the Holmeses and the Hathaways. We also talk a lot about our own families...which was unintended, but there it is.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order here!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful! For the next week or so, we've got a lot of fun stuff in the hopper -- be on the lookout for a few extra episodes!
And, if you're celebrating this week -- Merry Christmas!
Show Notes
Richard Gere wasn’t old when he filmed Pretty Woman, even though he was going gray.
Samantha Jaxon posted a very upsetting TikTok, and that's all we have to say about that.
The days of the big and small envelope in college admissions are over, but they do have the Common App and that seems nice.
Maybe, you too, would like a karaoke microphone for your future weather-person.
The 1987 movie Roxanne with Steve Martin and Daryl Hannah is a Cyrano retelling, and it has lots of very funny jokes and one-liners.
There is one more phone-banking opportunity on January 4, 2021. You should join us!
Bridgerton drops on December 25th, along with Wonder Woman 1984. Virgin River is another Netflix show based on a romance series.
Just a heads up about the photo array, I’m just including the first book of a family series because otherwise it will be overwhelming!
70s and 80s Old School romance series with families include: the Malorys by Johanna Lindsey, The Montgomerys and Taggerts by Jude Deveraux, and the Westmorelands by Judith McNaught.
90s families: the LeVeq family by Beverly Jenkins, The Cynster family by Stephanie Laurens, the Rocking M series by Elizabeth Lowell.
2000s families: Brenda Jackson’s Westmoreland family, the Essex Sisters by Eloisa James, The Holmes Brothers by Farrah Rochon, and the Hathaways by Lisa Kleypas.
2010s families: The Blackshear family by Cecilia Grant, The Ravenels by Kleypas, the Duke’s Daughters by Megan Frampton, the Mackenzie series by Jennifer Ashley, the Greene sisters in the Uptown Girls series by Joanna Shupe, the Talbot sisters in Sarah’s Scandal and Scoundrel series, the von Hasenberg sisters in the Consortium Rebellion series by Jessie Mihalik, the Hidden Legacy series by Ilona Andrews, and the Sullivans by Bella Andre.
Brenda Jackson was the first Black romance author to hit the New York Times bestseller list with the book Irresistible Forces in 2008. It's not a Westmoreland book, but the Westmoreland series is currently 30+ books and growing.
S03.19: The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever by Julia Quinn: Because everyone else is doing the Bridgertons
If you want Bridgerton deep dives, do not miss the series at Learning the Tropes with our amazing friends Erin & Clayton. But we’re reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever, and we’ve got a LOT to say!
Content note: This book and episode discusses miscarriage and pregnancy.
Notes
Can we brag for a minute? Our #FatedStates phone bank appeared in the Washington Post this week! Also, if you're looking for phone banking opportunites, we have one tonight 12/16 at 5 central, and another on 1/4/2021. Join us.
December 25th is going to be a great day. Bridgerton drops on Netflix and Wonder Woman 1984 will be on HBO Max.
If you want a podcast tackling all of the Bridgerton books, check out Learning the Tropes. Sarah was on the episode for Sir Philip with Love, which is her favorite. Jen’s favorite is The Viscount Who Loved Me, and if it’s yours maybe you’d like a “mallet of death” t-shirt from Linda. Her shop is on hiatus right now, but she'll be back in the new year.
Here’s the Ted talk with Elizabeth Gilbert, author of Eat, Pray, Love.
Does Olivia get her own book? Of course she does, it’s called What Happens in London.
Sarah’s favorite Jane Austen is Emma. Jen’s favorite Jane Austen is none of them.
If you want to see some house party games in action, watch Season 4 of the Crown.
Megan Markle recently wrote about her miscarriage in the New York Times. Jen wrote about miscarriage back when she blogged for The Book Queen, and it includes discussion of Sarah’s book, Day of the Duchess.
The book with all the former heroes sharing their childbirth war stories is...well, we don't remember. If you do, please tell us!
S03.18: Julie Garwood Interstitial: Damnit, Sara! (Not our Sarah!)
This week, we tried something a little different—recording a live interstitial episode! We’re talking about Jen’s formative queen, Julie Garwood, and we dig into dialogue, alphas who are instantly gone for their heroines, heroines who tame wild animals, arranged marriages between children, and why every Garwood historical feels medieval whether or not it actually is.
We recorded this episode live during a Fated States postcard-writing party to get out the vote for the January 5th runoff election in Georgia. If you’re a Georgia voter, please vote for Jon Ossoff and Reverend Raphael Warnock, and let’s finish what we started with the blue wave! If you’re up for it, please consider joining us for a phonebanking session on the evening of January 4th!
Next week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix (coming December 25th!), we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
Fated States is gearing up to phone bank on the evening of Jan 4 from 5-7 central time. Join us if you can!
Sarah mentioned seeing Berkley editor Cindy Hwang on a panel--it doesn't appear to have been recorded, but here is the description of the panel.
In Sarah’s OSRBC facebook group, there’s a longstanding search for a book where two people are on a beach and a wave throws them together, and then “oops they’re boning.” A few folks have suggested that maybe it was Pirate by Fabio. So check it out. His co-writer (a ghost writer is when they are unnamed) is Eugenia Rielly.
A teenage horror/romance that both Jen and Kelly loved was called The Ghosts of Departure Point. Probably came from the Scholastic Book Club, if we’re being honest.
In case you’re wondering, the copyright page will tell you if you’re holding a first printing or first edition. Here’s a bunch of people talking about why the edges of paperbacks were dyed.
RT Book Reviews and the RT conference once had Julie Garwood and Jude Deveraux on stage at the same time, and YouTube has the video! When Coronavirus is over, I highly recommend going to KissCon.
Nora Roberts is our Queen and last week a poor unfortunate soul named Debra learned that the hard way.
Obviously, Luke grew up on Tatooine. Hoth was that ice planet place, which is why the women in the Ice Planet Barbarians series call their new home Not-Hoth.
We’d be interested in hearing your interpretation of The Bechdel Test. Jen thinks the women can still talk about men AS LONG AS they also talk about other stuff, but Sarah thought it required no discussion of men at all which is pretty tough to find in romance. FWIW, Jen mentioned it in regards to The Bride because Jamie is so isolated and largely without women friends.
We like prologues and epilogues here at Fated Mates, but we understand not everyone agrees.
The feud between the families in The Gift is “like the Montagues and the Capulets, but worse.” Speaking of which, Kate Clayborn’s upcoming book, Love At First, is an homage to Romeo and Juliet.
This isn't exactly about the life expectancy in Scotland was in 1100, but it's close enough.
Vanessa Riley’s site has a great explainer about Black people during the Regency on her site. We talked about the Carribean in the Regency when we read Gentle Rogue.
It wasn't a "rip off" of Home Alone, it was just an allusion. Similarly, Nathan's whip reminded Sarah of Indiana Jones.
Are these books on audio? Why yes they are and Jen listened to The Bride in between recording and release of the episode and greatly enjoyed it.
Next week, we're reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever by Julia Quinn
S03.17: The Hating Game by Sally Thorne: Lucy! Obviously Danny didn't send the roses!
There aren’t many recent romances you can point to and categorically label as game changers, but Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game definitely fits this bill. We talk about all the ways we love it, about sparkling dialogue and witty writing and what makes a romcom and how this book changed the cover game for a generation of romance. Oh, and yes, we get to the bottom (jk, there is no bottom) of Jen’s issues with first-person present.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order before December 5th for Christmas delivery!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial, and the following week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Fated States
Show Notes
Bridget Jones’s Diary came out in 1996 and the movie came out in 2001.
Enemies to Lovers is a completely beloved romance trope. Rivals to lovers lives within the larger trope and is very fun because it is often a perfectly matched pair on an even playing field. Sarah wrote Brazen & the Beast after being inspired by The Hating Game.
Here’s what we mean when we say situational comedy.
Jen hates present tense, but of course everyone should write what’s right for them.
Is it chick lit or is it women’s fiction? Why do these labels even exist? Just go back and read The Girl’s Guide to Hunting and Fishing or Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner.
We don’t talk about voice that much, but maybe we should.
There was a short lived Harlequin chick lit line called Red Dress Ink in 2001.
Here’s what Jen teaches her kids about characterization.
The Slate article about interiors and a very thorough rebuttal from Felicia Davin.
We talked about another hero who came up through Twilight fanfic.
If you like a scene where one main character tells off the family on behalf of their beloved, you should read Her Naughty Holiday by Tiffany Reisz.
In two weeks, we'll be reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. We are getting ready for Bridgerton and Wonder Woman 1984.
If you're interested in the Fated Mates Best of 2020 book pack and you want it delivered by Christmas, make sure you order it by 12/5.
S03.16: Best Romance Novels of 2020
The Best Romance Novels of 2020!
It’s the best and worst task of the year for us, because we read so many AMAZING books over the course of the year, and choosing ten and not one hundred is hard for us, ok? But here they are — ten gorgeous books that we adored—books with badass heroines, larger-than-life heroes, brilliant structure, and outstanding writing.
Buy the Fated Mates Best of Book Pack in one fell swoop from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Support fabulous authors and a woman-owned independent bookstore all at once!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we get back to doing what we do best: Reading Romance! We’re deep-diving on Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
The Best Romance Novels of 2020
Fated States
Interested in phone banking or writing postcards to voters in Georgia? Join us for our upcoming Fated States events: phone banking on 12/2/20 and 1/4/2021 and postcards on 12/5/2020.
Show Notes
Consider buying a Fated Mates pack of 7 of our 10 books (it doesn't include the self-published books) from Old Town Books in Alexandria, Virgina. You can also check out our Bookshop link.
Can you believe that RWA debacle was 11 months ago?
So you want to hear us talk about A Heart of Blood and Ashes, Like Lovers Do, Queen Move, or The Devil of Downtown?
Cold War history is fascinating. Not only all the nuclear stuff, but Sarah's story about K Blows Top sounds fascinating.
Some LitFic novels that play around with dual storylines are The French Lieutenant’s Woman, Possession, and the more romance adjacent Secret History of the Pink Carnation.
All about danger banging. And of course there’s a button for that.
Tammany Hall is often used as a historical example of total police corruption.
Up next week, we'll be reading The Hating Game by Sally Thorne.
S03.15: Menage Romance with Katee Robert
It’s getting colder out there, so we’re getting hot in here! We’ve got the fabulous Katee Robert with us to talk about ménage romance and why she writes them so well. We get to the bottom of why it always gets shoved into the taboo corner of romance, the fantasy of the trope, and why we like it so very much. Also, we topple the TBR (as usual)!
Books Discussed in this Episode
Notes
Welcome Katee Robert!
High fantasy has real meaning.
When talking about romance, M and F (and NB for nonbinary) are used to inform readers about the gender identity of the main characters. This is an imperfect shorthand, but at this point in our understanding of sex and gender, it seems like the most respectful way to acknowledge that there is a huge range of sexual identities that exist for people of all genders. For example, if we call a book with two women “a lesbian romance” it might not take into account that one character is bisexual, which adds to bi-erasure. So if a romance is labeled M/F, we know there is a man and a woman in a romantic relationship, but that leaves room for the sexual identity of the characters to be fully explored in the book. In romance with more than two people, the order of the letters matters. A book that is MFM would mean that the two men do not have a sexual relationship with each other, while FMM or MMF means that they do.
There is nothing taboo about polyamory.
Jen liked the progression of menage in Elle Kennedy’s Out of Uniform series. The series starts with a non-swords crossing threesome, Hot and Bothered. The observing one was Heat of the Night (available in the Hot and Heavy anthology), where Ryan watches Annabelle have sex with his roommate. But as the series progresses, there is contact between the SEALs in Feeling Hot and a fully formed menage relationship in Hotter Than Ever.
Ellora’s Cave and Samhain were two of the original (and now shuttered) indie publishers that specialized in erotic romance and/or taboo romance.
The Anita Blake series went through a lot of changes, so just go with Katee’s method and start with #9, Obsidian Butterfly.
Katee will be back to talk about morality chain in 2021.
Next week, we’ll be airing our Best of 2020 episode, and then the first week of December, we’ll be discussing The Hating Game.
S03.14: Our 100th Episode! Fated Mates Live
ONE HUNDRED EPISODES!
You’ve seen us through Immortals After Dark, through Books that Blooded Us, and through a presidential election, so if there was any doubt that you’re stuck with us, put that right out of your mind! We love you so much for listening…and we hope you have as much fun listening to this episode as we had recording it!
Thanks to Tracey Livesay, Andie J Christopher, Kate Clayborn, Christina Lauren, Adriana Herrera, Nisha Sharma and Joanna Shupe for joining us, and to Steve Ammidown for popping in to say hi!
Next week, we have an interstitial coming, and the following week, we’re back on read alongs with Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game! Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
In between when we recorded and when you're listening, something great happened.
How did Hollywood Squares work? What did the theme song sound like? What does Whoopi Goldberg have to do with it?
Fated States will be back! One of our dedicated phone bankers and the head of the OSRBC-IAD book discussion, Caroline, had an amazing experience when she was phone banking the week before the election. And we are not at all jealous about her amazing gift basket from Kresley Cole!
Check out Milla Vane on the Wicked Wallflowers podcast.
Andie Christopher hosts Drunk Romance History on her Instagram feed every Saturday and it’s hilarious. Sarah joined her Saturday after a full day of Election drinking to talk Suddenly You.
Do you know the book where a wave causes accidental penetration for a couple on a beach? NEITHER DO WE!
Here’s the link to all the slides for Fuck, Marry, Kill and Would Derek Craven. And here are all the Title Smash slides.
We invented a holiday. No big.
We love Philadelphia. Gritty was an unexpected hero of the 2020 election. Now you know all about the Philadelphia Left.
The Danielle Steele thread from Steve Ammidown at the Browne Pop Culture Library.
We really need to talk about the 80s blockbusters The Thorn Birds, Clan of the Cave Bear, and Flowers in the Attic (and powdered donuts).
It was Buffy and Spike in the mausoleum, not Buffy and Angel.
We can't find the TikTok of Paul Rudd and his son, but instead we'll discuss if anyone knows where Michael J. Fox got his cloning machine?
We’ll leave you to contemplate the whole “hero pooping” theory on your own, but we all know for sure that Elvis poops.
S03.13: Fated States Author Recommendations
The last six weeks have been rough, but Fated Mates listeners and a wild number of Romance Authors made them easier by being a part of Fated States, our weekly phonebanking initiative with Indivisible Action. We don’t know how yesterday went, but we know we are so incredibly proud to have worked alongside so many listeners who volunteered their time to phonebank, and so many amazing authors who donated books to phone bankers!
On this episode, we rec books by every author who donated free books to Fated States — all 49 of them! Your TBR is going to be full for years after this one! We promise! Special shout out to Julia Quinn, Suzanne Brockmann, AJ Cousins, Carrie Ann Ryan & Cassandra Carr, who each donated books to EVERY phonebanker, once a week for five weeks.
Below, in Show Notes, you’ll find a full list of the books we recommend, and links to Amazon. You can buy print versions of books and support independent bookstores at our bookshop.org shop!
AND…thanks to our sister pods, Heaving Bosoms, Learning the Tropes and The Wicked Wallflowers, who donated podcasting swag, and to BestFriendKelly for stickers!
IMPORTANT UPDATE: This Thursday, November 5th, we’ll be recording our 100th Episode LIVE on Zoom, and we want you to be there! Join us and special guests, for games, laughter, romance recommendations, and as much joy as you can handle. Sign up here.
Next week, we’ll release the 100th Episode for those of you who can’t make it Thursday, and the following week, we’re back on read alongs with Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game! Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
S03.12: The Immigrant Story and Joy in Romance with Adriana Herrera
The fabulous Adriana Herrera is here for her fourth time to talk about Joy! We had a great time with one of the greatest people this week — talking about the American immigrant experience, how hope and bravery make for beautiful love stories, and listing a huge number of books that we love.
Notes
Welcome back, Adriana Herrera! She’s been on a few times so far: Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night, the food romance episode, and she and Jen talked about trauma in romance. This week, her March 2020 release American Sweethearts appeared on the Publisher’s Weekly Best of 2020 List.
Normalize pegging at all costs.
If you’re going to come to the phone bank this weekend dressed as a romance heroine, might we suggest you drape a mantilla over your head and carry a pistol? You’ll be a dead ringer for Jessica Trent from Lord of Scoundrels. Sarah was on a panel with Loretta Chase a few weeks ago, and I guess the only blessing of these Zoom times is watching these things online. IS THERE A LINK TO THIS?
Adriana has written a few pieces about immigration in romance, one for Bustle and one for Remezcla.
Just a quick primer, because we didn’t clarify these definitions on the podcast and it’s complicated, because both terms are widely used to describe the same group of people--American-born children of immigrants. While Sarah grew up thinking of herself as "first-generation," many modern academics & the Census label her as "second-generation." Here's a cool article on all the terms, and how they've evolved.
Also, it’s useful to know the difference between push and pull factors that drive immigration.
If you want to read a terrific immigrant superhero story, Jen recommends a graphic novel she teaches to her 7th graders, The Shadow Hero by Gene Yang. She’s also really loved his recent release Dragon Hoops.
Adriana loves the podcast On Being, hosted by Krista Tippet. The episode with Ocean Vuong, author of On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous, features some interesting discussion of his own immigrant story.
We do not recommend reading American Dirt, but you should know the story of how and why it was published, some ideas about why publishing was so eager to sell this particular story from a variety of Latinx authors and thinkers.
When Adriana mentioned “the fun kind of thrust” she is referencing Jenny Nordbak’s best advice for finding a sex scene in a book: search for the word “thrust.”
Diacritical marks are symbols added to letters which tells the speaker how to correctly pronounce the word. In The Bride Test, the same words have diacritical marks when spoken by Esme, a character newly immigrated from Vietnam, but do not have them when spoken by Vietnamese-Americans. Also, language loss in the children of immigrant families is a well-documented phenomena.
Take a look at the cultural iceberg.
Jeannette Ng’s piece, Critiquing Cultural Appropriation in Books That Are Kinda Meh, is about the pressure to research and how it undermines the lived experience of #OwnVoices authors.
Jen mentioned a piece in Kirkus called 100 books by Cynthia Leitich Smith, which argues “Before trying to write any character outside one’s lived experience, I recommend reading at least 100 books* by authors from that community. To start.” By the way, Smith is the author of a terrific YA novel called Hearts Unbroken if you’re interested.
Trujillo was terrible! Don’t steal Adriana’s idea to write a story about the Japanese-Dominican people who were living on the border of the Domenican Republic and Haiti.
Ethiopia and its capital Addis Ababa are fascinating places. Adriana and her partner lived there for five years. Also, the lions of Ethiopia are genetically distinct from other lions.
When it comes to holiday shopping, October is the new December. Sarah wrote a long thread of some of her favorite local indies that carry romance. Support them if you can.
The Books
S03.11: Comfort Reads with Dani Lacey
It’s comfort read week! What makes a comfort read, why do we turn to them, what do we want from them, and why on earth do blue aliens fit the bill?! This week, we all need a comfort read, and we’re joined by Dani Lacey, host of Ice Planet Pod and Black Chick Lit Podcast, to talk about all things comfort reads!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 5 this Saturday, October 24th at 3pm Eastern to call South Carolina! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Dani Lacey, host of Ice Planet Pod and Black Chick Lit podcast. Black Chick Lit is a podcast Dani hosts with her friend Mollie, and the focus is books by and about Black women. Ice Planet Pod has different guests every week, and Jen has been on and Sarah will be on!
Some of the specific Ice Planet Podcast episodes that Dani mentioned: she did one with her friend Mollie from Black Chick Lit, Jen talked about what would happen if Wedding Magazines existed on that world, and the latest release was with author Katrina Jackson.
All about Hoopla and the difference between Hoopla vs Libby (Overdrive). If your public library doesn't have Hoopla, it's probably becasue they can't afford it.
You, too, can have a banana phone. Don't tell Sophie, but Sarah's definitely getting her one of these.
In the Ice Planet books, the khui is the magic thing that “resonates” to tell the two people that they are a destined to be together--it also allows these shipwrecked humans to survive the ice planet, and also to speak the same language.
A couple of times, Dani mentioned “Harlow’s book, and the title of that one is Barbarian Mine.
Jen's friend Julie was a little worried about Chuck Tingle being sad when he released Chuck Tingle Pounded in The Butt by a Knockoff Book that Glorifies a Deadly Tragedy and Doesn't Prove Love is Real Then Accepting This as a Sad Side Effect of Making Wider Positive Impact as an Author, but the following week it was Mike Pence Pounded in the Butt by His Handsome Werefly, so he’s probably fine.
Magic Mike XXL is a pure, beautiful movie about men and their feelings. We highly recommend it.
If you’re a fan of the Stage Dive series, there was a new novella that was released yesterday called Love Song. It’s the book about Adam Dillon, a character that the band mentored in later books in the series.
How the Reddit forum AITA (Am I the Asshole) reveals the sexism of everyday life.
The two audiobook companies are Tantor and Brilliance, but with the huge rise of popularity in audiobooks, lots of audio in now produced in house.
When it comes to the Ice Planet audio, Dani loves the two narrators Hollie Jackson and Mason Lloyd. The Ice Home series, a spin-off of the Ice Planet Barbarians Series, has two new narrators Sean Crisdenand Felicity Munroe. But Jen recently listened to a book narrated by Sean Crisden and it was awesome. So we think you should give the Ice Home audio a try, Dani!
Welcome to Night Vale is a podcast and also a book.
