S03.45: Dark Romance: Monsters Need Love, Too.
We promised you an episode on Dark Romance and truthfully we’re pretty proud of how well we’ve delivered. We’ve got Kenya Goree-Bell, Nisha Sharma, Joanna Shupe and Jo Brenner with us today to dig deep on this subgenre that we don’t read regularly. We are endlessly grateful for their guidance through this end of the romance pool!
We talk about what makes a romance “dark,” about how dark romance differs from morality chain and taboo romance, and about why dark romance resonates with so many readers. Oh, and yes, if you’re curious, we fill your TBR pile (obvi). Stay tuned at the end of the episode for additional reflections from Sarah & Jen.
CONTENT NOTE: Because Dark Romance can include all sorts of problematic content, we don’t shy away from many of those topics in this episode. Proceed with caution, both in listening and in reading.
AUDIO NOTE: Due to countless irregularities, expected and unexpected, the audio in this episode isn’t up to our normal standards. But it sounds fine.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
Welcome our panel of dark romance experts: Kenya Goree-Bell, Nisha Sharma, Joanna Shupe, and Jo Brenner.
The hallmarks and tenets of Dark Romance
All dubious consent and non-consent romance is dark romance (although not all dark romance has dubcon or nonconsensual elements).
It’s about what the HEA is made up of: If the non-aggressor or non-villian moves into the dark (rather than pulling the other into the light), then it would qualify as dark romance.
Often the aggressor/villain is static, while the non-aggressor finds their light or strength in the new world they exist in. This person does all the work and learns how to navigate a life around the aggressor and their world. These are not stories of love redeeming, but rather of learning to find love and happiness with the person (people) in front of you.
The characters are suffering from current or past psychological or physical trauma. The non-aggressor represents the last bits of humanity that the aggressor has to hold on to. Dark romance explores a relationship where only one person has strains of humanity and the impact it has on a person without it.
The evil and violence of the aggressor must take place on the page.
Some Terms we'll use on this episode
Consensual non-consent (non-con): is when romantic partners engage “in behaviors that may include role-playing nonconsensual behaviors, or may involve negotiating sexual behaviors where one partner agrees to give up consent during certain behaviors or relationships.” This can include fantasizing about rape and kidnapping, and lots of women have complicated feelings about these fantasies.
Dubious consent (dub-con): is the gray area between full, enthusiastic consent and rape. A person hasn't give outright consent to having sex and might not consider it rape; however, some other factor prevents them from saying no.
The Aggressor: rather than use hero/heroine, Jo started using aggressor and non-aggressor as a way of talking about chracters who exhibit very non-heroic behavior.
The skin suit: What Jen calls the experience of reading a book where she wants more distance between herself and the main characters.
The Murder Meal: Sarah noticed that a common trope of dark romance is a meal where blood is shed and people still continue to eat.
Notes and Other Links
You may have listened to our Morality Chain episode, where we made a graphic explaining how it differs from dark romance. Next month, Nikki Sloane will join us to discuss taboo romance.
It’s not Mordor unless you’re a hobbit. Sarah is not opposed to elevensies, so it's fine.
Earlier this year, there was a Saturday Night Live skit about women watching The Murder Show. Why do women like reading about serial killers? Did you see this essay in Slate about a woman who thinks she slept with a man who went on to be a serial killer?
Game of Thrones and it’s penchant for sexual violence is still influencing pop culture.
The only thing that’s forbidden in dark romance is cheating, which shows how firmly these books are rooted in the romance genre, as compared to the rampant cheating by male characters The Godfather and other mafia movies, but this is often rooted in obsession rather than a belief in monogamy.
While there's very little (possibly no) research on readers of dark romance, but there's lots of research on the horror genre. Sarah’s friend Micol Ostow, who writes YA horror recommended this essay about the "spectacle of the ruined body." Meanwhile, Jen follows Becky Spratford, a librarian and horror expert, who says that one thing romance and horror have in common is they are both “genres of emotion.”
There’s some research on horror and spoilers from Jonathan Leavitt & Nicholas Christenfeld which indicates that spoilers might allow people to enjoy a story more fully. Perhaps dark romance readers, regardless of what terrible things happen, can safely continue reading because they know there will be an HEA.
Why do we like to watch and read media where characters are undergoing trauma? In The Paradox of Horror: Fear as a Positive Emotion, Katerina Bantinaki explains how readers experience reading about fear and trauma. Related: [(Why) Do You Like Scary Movies? By G. Neil Martin.
A highly gendered kind of world exists in many m/f Dark Romances, and the article Her Body, Himself: Gender in Slasher Films by Carol Clover explores how similar themes play out in horror movies. As Nisha said, there are queer and polyamarous dark romance and a few the panel recommends are Soul Survivor by Daniel de Lorne, the Wicked Villains Series by Katee Robert, Trouble or the Darkness trilogy by Nora Ash, and Manipulate by Pam Godwin.
Stockholm Syndrome isn’t real, quelle surprise, but it still a popular idea in pop culture of all kinds. Many dark romance novels show characters using extreme or maladaptive coping strategies in an attempt to heal themselves or others without the help of therapists or medicine, a particularly American problem since so few people have adequate (if any) coverage for mental health.
Dark romance runs long, they’re all “Zack Snyder cut” books. We speculated that there are two reasons for the length of many of these books:
The books are long because the trauma on page must have an equal or greater redemption arc. Readers must believe that the non-agressor has fully accepted the bad deeds of the aggressor in order to believe the HEA.
Many of these books are on KU, which means authors are getting paid by the page. Like Charles Dickens, the incentive is to write longer to increase their pay.
Dark Romance Books
S03.44: The Stage Dive Series by Kylie Scott: #HeroesWhoEat
We’re back to read alongs this week! We’re big Kylie Scott fans here at Fated Mates, and we talked about her Stage Dive series all the way back in Season One on our very first interstitial, and now we’re doing a deep dive. We’d intended to do book three, Lead, but we ended up talking about all four, and honestly, rereading this was pretty great for us. We hope it was great for you, too.
Our next read along, sometime in July, is Cat Sebastian’s wonderful Unmasked by the Marquess. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
Sarah has a book coming on August 24th! Preorder Bombshell now. You won't regret it.
Everyone is struggling with getting dressed again.
It’s a 1001 in the 1001 Dark Nights series as an homage and allusion to Scheherazade, the story-teller of the Arabian Nights.
We also love the VIP series by Kristen Callihan, and the 4th book in that series, Exposed, comes out next month, July 2021.
On our upcoming episode with Susan Elizabeth Phillips, where she told us that back in the day, “rock stars, actors, and athletes” were not allowed in the early days of romance. We aren’t sure why, but we speculate that it was fear of putting “sex, drugs, and rock and roll” and other high roller lifestyles on page.
If you want to join the OSRBC group (Old School Romance Book Club) on Facebook, make sure to answer the three questions if you want to be admitted.
Andi Arndt is the narrator of all Kylie’s books, including the entire Stage Dive series, and Jen thinks she is terrific.
The Captains’ Vegas Vows has a similar set up to Lick: waking up married in Vegas, and only one of them remembered what happened.
“Retcon” is a word that started out as shorthand for retroactive continuity, and here’s a piece from Merriam-Webster explaining its remarkable elasticity.
Hyperemesis gravidarum is the medical term for severe morning sickness, which affects about one percent of pregnant people.
DC comics claims that Batman doesn’t go down, but the internet and everyone else on twitter and even Zach Snyder disagred. But in all seriousness, maybe it's just another interesting data point about America turning back towards the Hays Code and continuing to remove sex from all kinds of media.
Thelma and Louise does have a great ending, you can’t argue with that. And since 2021 is the 30th anniversary of the film’s release, there are lots of interesting retrospectives on the movie.
Desmond Morris is an English zoologist who outlined the 12 stages of intimacy -- hey, humans are animals, too!
Our July interviews will be with Susan Elizabeth Phillips, Nicola Yoon, and Nikki Sloane. Our July read-along is Unmasked by the Marquess by Cat Sebastian.
S03.43: Writers in Romance with Tia Williams
We’re welcoming Tia Williams, author of the wonderful Seven Days in June, to talk about her delicious book, about writing writers, about romances set in New York City, about her youth as a romance reader, and about Drew Barrymore as inspiration, and about The Joan Wilder?!.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
The Books
Notes
If you want a signed copy of Bombshell along with a Fated Mates sticker, preorder from Word Bookstore in Brooklyn.
Welcome Tia Williams! Her new release, Seven Days in June, is Reese’s Book Club pick for June. In this article in Ebony, Tia talks about her commitment to putting Black love on page and creating rich, interesting lives for Shane and Eva.
Eva’s website is EvaMercyMe, and her vampire hero is Sebastian. And according to Twitter, all romance Sebastians are good Sebatians.
Slow Heat in Heaven by Sandra Brown is quite the read, and we talked about it on the Texas!Chase episode.
The question of “what if Romeo and Juliet met as grown-ups” was also the idea behind Kate Clayborn’s Love at First, and we talked about it with Kate on an episode about retellings in romance.
Drew Barrymore’s memoir Little Girl Lost is the story of her childhood in Hollywood, and definitely was hugely influential and shocking, and it still is worth a read if you can find a copy. It hasn't been digitized!
Jen talked to Adriana Herrera about how people might self-harm, cut, and use other extreme coping mechanisms if they have experienced trauma.
The Brooklyn Book Festival is not for the faint of heart.
More about the quote “Easy reading is damn hard writing.”
The Argeneau series by Lynsay Sands started with started with A Quick Bite in 2005, and book 33, Mile High with a Vampire comes out in Sept of 2021.
Romancing the Stone is a great movie from the 80s, and “The Joan Wilder!?” is a line from the movie. And, friend of the pod Linda has a t-shirt you might like. What’s looking like a great movie with a similar set up is The Lost City of D with Channing Tatum and Sandra Bullock.
Next week, we’ll be discussing Lead (and the other books in the Stage Dive series) by Kylie Scott.
S03.42: Fantasy Romance Interstitial with Zoraida Córdova
This week, Zoraida Córdova (aka Zoey Castile) joins us to talk about fantasy romance and why it is so hard to find it in the romance pool. We talk about speculative fiction, high fantasy, low fantasy, urban fantasy, contemporary fantasy, paranormal romance and more, all while trying to figure out just what makes something fantasy and not paranormal (we think we’ve cracked the code). We also talk world building, about maps, and about merman junk.
Our next read along is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org! Get the others in the series, too, while you’re at it, because you’ll probably want to read the whole thing.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Fantasy Romances
Notes
Welcome Zoraida Córdova! Zoraida writes MG, YA, and adult speculative fiction, and also romance under the name Zoey Castile.
Puerto Rico is a US territory and residents of the island are American citizens.
We love Norma Perez-Hernandez who is an amazing, exuberant editor at Kensington, and if you don’t follow her on Twitter she should. Norma also was on the 2020 Publisher's Weekly Star Watch List.
Zoraida’s book The Vicious Deep answers the age-old question of “where does it go,” a similar answer is in Guillermo del Toro's movie The Shape of Water.
Speculative fiction asks the question “what if” and is the big umbrella category for science fiction, fantasy, urban fantasy (now Black authors in particular suggest we rename this contemporary fantasy), and paranormal.
Reading strategies are for everyone: We love maps in fantasy, so why not in contemporary fiction?
Victoria Avyeard was on Sarah Enni's First Draft podcast talking about world building.
The Hero’s Journey, or maybe the heroine’s journey.
NK Jemisin’s lecture about the cultural iceberg shows writers how to build a world that goes beyond what’s on the surface.
An interesting thread from a YA librarian, and another from author Elizabeth May, about why and how romance plots in SFF are pushed into YA.
Zoraida hosts a writing podcast with Dhonielle Clayton called Deadline City.
Relevant music perormed by: Twin Temple, Marike van Dijk + Katell Keineg, King Missile, Dr. Octagon, and Led Zeppelin. Listen to the full Fated Music playlist on Spotify.
Bonus: 99% Invisible Podcast on The Clinch
Monday Surprise! We’re so excited to share an episode of 99% Invisible with Fated Mates listeners — Sarah’s favorite podcast did an episode about romance covers, and interviewed authors, experts, and the artist and legend Max Ginsburg. It was thoughtful and respectful and perfect….and not only because Sarah was on it.
She’s so grateful to the team at 99% Invisible for having her, and we’re so grateful to them for letting us share the episode with all of you. Enjoy!
Notes
Sarah was a guest on last week's 99% Invisible podcast called The Clinch. We're huge fans of the podcast, but it's especially because their episode about locks called Perfect Security was the inspiration for Felicity Faircloth in Wicked and the Wallflower.
Although we haven't talk about the cover of Tender is the Storm on Fated Mates, we did discuss another Johanna Lindsey fan favorite, Gentle Rogue.
One of Jen's favorite episodes of 99% Invisible is about flag design, probably because it was very complimentary to the Chicago flag. Sarah's is obviously Perfect Security, but she also loved this one on water fountains.
If you're looking for other great reads about romance covers, Kelly Faircloth wrote about clinch covers for Jezebel and it is a must read. And Jen wrote about the art of the Harlequin romance cover for Kirkus.
This episode of 99PI was produced by Katie Mingle and inspired by her mom, Pamela Mingle, who writes historical romances. Try her debut (with that gorgeous clinch!), A False Proposal, or her most recent, Game of Spies.
S03.41: Spy Romance with Nana Malone
You are in the right place! Your eyes do not deceive you! We’re actually talking about spy romances this week and no Sarahs were harmed during the discussion, but that’s probably because it was a discussion with one of her favorite people, the fantastic Nana Malone!
We talk about Nana’s immense career, about how she took matters into her own hands and started making the covers she wished to see in the world, about her Brown Nipple reading challenge, about her latest book, a Kobo original, The Spy in 3B, and about porny ferris wheels. Real ordinary stuff. We also get to the bottom of why Sarah doesn’t like spy romances generally, but why she can’t get enough of Mr. & Mrs. Smith retellings.
Our next read along in some number of weeks (three? four?) is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org!
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
The Spy Books
Notes
Welcome Nana Malone back to the pod, and if you want to hear more about the Brown Nipple Challenge, check out her Instagram. She is an amazing author and recently became her own cover model after failing to find good stock photos for her books.
If you don’t know how stock photography works, here’s a brief primer on how they can be used to make book covers and teasers. The problems with finding stock photography that is truly diverse is a well-known problem. For most authors, custom photography is cost-prohibitive. Nana’s favorite photographer is Wander Aguiar.
If you want to hear more about romance covers and their history, Sarah was interviewed on an episode of the 99% Invisible podcast about covers this week. Head over and have a listen after you listen to this!
Just in case you need a quick review, there are currently three paths in publishing: self-published, indie, and traditional. It’s common to use “indie” and “self-published” interchangeably, which why Nana described an author as “their own business.” Strictly speaking, Indie means small, independent presses, such as Violet Gaze Press. And Trad, or traditional publishing, refers to the Big Five (Big Four?) New York publishing houses: Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster.
A little about the history of Kobo and why it’s worth supporting them.
No one likes it when the Mary Sue character has no idea what’s going on.
Turns out that Ferris Wheel sex is a real thing at Coachella. And Myrtle Beach. And Vegas. And Kindle Unlimited.
Daniel Craig jumps on a train. Pierce Brosnon catches a plane.
Faberge Eggs have a storied history and are very fancy.
The hero of Night Magic is not that John McClane. If you like a Cold War thriller, you might enjoy a bonkers 80s spy thriller, The Charm School by Nelson DeMille.
Jen did love Lies, but had some thoughts about the ending and unreliable narrators that you can read after you finish the book.
We also mentioned some movies and TV shows about spies: Mr. and Mrs. Smith, La Femme Nikita, Spy, James Bond, True Lies, The Americans, Kingsman, and The Scarlet Pimpernel.
S03.40: Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart - Who Flies in White Linen?!
Continuing our conversation about Bright Bananas on the Romance Tree — this week we’re reading an extreme oldie, Anne Stuart’s Tangled Lies, famous for being a story about a heroine falling for her brother…except he’s not really her brother! It’s a RIDE. We talk about just how odd romance could be back in the day, about how this book might be an ancestor to dark romance, and about how alpha alpha heroes could really get. And then we talk about modern contemporary romance and how things are changing in traditional publishing.
Our next read along in some number of weeks (three? four?) is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org!
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
Bombshell comes out on Aug 24th. You should preorder it from WORD in Brooklyn, which will for sure come with some cool swag, including a special edition Fated Mates sticker. Best Friend Kelly did a Twitter poll asking people about their experiences ordering books + swag from Indie bookstores. Speaking of which, the art by Liz Parkes for The Soulmate Equation is the cutest!
You might need this page as you are reading Tangled Lies.
Speaking of books from your grandma’s attic, look at what HEAapologist found this week! If you want this feeling without having relatives cool enough to leave them lying around, just order a big lot of random romances from eBay. For individual titles, Jen thinks Thrift Books is better than Amazon because you don’t pay shipping for each individual title.
Rob Imes has a page on his blog where he keeps track of all the category lines through 1989. In the case of Tangled Lies, it was first published as Harlequin Intrigue #5, then it was rebranded in the Men Made in America series, and finally part of the Famous Firsts Collection that celebrated Harlequin's 60th anniversary.
Fiction DB is the place to do if you're looking for an author's backlist. Here is Anne Stuart's page, the one where the soldier and the nun have a baby together. Also, Catspaw.
Check out Adriana’s Instagram Live Series about telenovelas. Sarah was on to talk about Falcon Crest, because she imprinted on Lorenzo Llamas in his swim suit. His character's name was Lance Cumson. Sure.Speaking of Adriana, now is the time to preorder One Week to Claim it All. Jen and her brother Mike will be on to talk about Santa Barbara.
In case you don’t remember the movie Sneakers a very similar situation happens when Robert Redford is out for pizza in the 60s. And it looks like Jen & Sarah aren't the only ones who love this movie.
Why we were all afraid of piranhas and quicksand in the 80s. I don’t know why.
The Pondering Padre (from the original cover) looks like Friar Lawrence, but not like Friar Tuck. Please note: not that kind of Priest.
In the introduction, Anne Stuart mentioned being inspired by an old movie called Miss Tatlock's Millions (1948) but when it comes to "ope, maybe we're related" in pop culture, it seems hard not to talk about the influence of Flowers in the Attic and its famous incestual relationship. More recently, it was the Lannister twins in Game of Thrones or the folks in this Slate column.
In romance, it was more common that these attractions were the mark of villainous men lusting after their sisters, such as Prisoner of My Desire by Johanna Lindsey, and others by Bertrice Small and Stella Cameron. A more updated story is Mister Moneybags by Vi Keeland and Penelope Ward.
In film, along with Miss Tatlock's Millions, Sarah metioned Crimson Peak (2015), and Jen is kicking herself for not bringing up the terrific movie movie Lone Star (1996).
Jen wrote about paratext on Twitter, which of course turned into a cover conversation.
We have a lot of fun interviews with authors coming up in June, and our next read along (in a couple of weeks) will be Lead by Kylie Scott.
Vulture TV Critic Angelica Jade Bastién wrote a thread asking why she's bored, and wondering what happend to interesting failures. Donald Glover returned to Twitter to blame cancel culture for boring art, but then he canceled his own tweets later.
A few think pieces about why sexual content is being deplatformed on the: who is doing it, and who it impacts. I bet you're shocked to learn its about capitalism and right-wing politics. Why Sarah's Facebook group OSRBC keeps getting dragged into the net.
We have a lot of really fun guests coming up in the next few weeks: Tia Williams, Zoraida Cordova, and Nana Malone. Our next read along (at some point in June) will be Lead by Kylie Scott.
S03.39: The Soulmate Equation & Trope Death Match with Christina Lauren
It is release week for some of our favorite people, and we’re here to celebrate with them! Join us for a wild conversation about the books Jen refers to as “the brightest bananas on the tree” — each of us has selected a truly wild ride of a book, and we’re going to share them with you! We also talk about their fabulous new release, now Sarah’s favorite CLo book, The Soulmate Equation. Preorder it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Bookshop.org, or signed from Vroman’s bookstore!
Our next read along is out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly eye-widening Tangled Lies at your local library or via a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
If you'd like to order signed copies of The Soulmate Equation, check out Vroman's Bookstore or the other book shops on CLo's virtual book tour. Tonight, 5/19/2021, Christina and Lauren are celebrating the launch of The Soulmate Equation with Sarah, Xio Axelrod, and Rachel Epstein.
If you want to dive into the Theranos story, Lo recommends the book Bad Blood by John Carreyrou, and the New York Times has a list of recommended things to read and watch.
23 & Me and other DNA Ancestry tests can tell you some things: whether or not you think cilantro tastes like soap, and about the size of our hair follicles, but as of right now, science can’t tell you much about your fated mate, I mean soulmate.
Questions about the future of technology and how it intersects with humanity make for great television in shows like Black Mirror, The One, and Casual.
I don’t know, maybe you’ve heard about there being a fundamental incompatibility between science and religion, but others are pretty sure we can work it out.
If you’re not a sportsball fan, Michael Jordan is a kind of a big deal.
Aphrodisia was a short-lived Kensington imprint that focused on erotica and erotic romance, it ran from 2006 to 2014. Jen asked if it was Ellora’s Cave, which was another powerhouse erotic romance publisher that shuttered in 2014.
A satyr is a magical creature from Greek mythology, so we’re not sure if they 1) have two dicks and 2) if they are covered in soft fur. You’re going to have to use your own imagination.
We all hope that Nicholas the satyr is a little sexier that Mr. Tumnus from the movie version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
Slate had a woman asking for advice about her pandemic threesome with two brothers, and you can tell a romance reader didn’t write that advice, because probably they could work that out. Jen alerted Jenny Nordbak immediately, of course.
Are you also looking for monster fucking romances?
If you need a quick review on alpha traits, listen to our episode from season two.
Knotting isn't just for A/B/O, it's also in romance. Same with mPreg romances and DP (which no one has made a list of!), in case you need a primer. Lo is looking for a romance that she thinks is called Passionate Ink about an octopus shifter tattoo artist...Maybe? Christina wants your favorite mPreg romance recommendation. We'll also take marriage of convenience recs and secret scar recs if you're in the mood.
More about the word "quim" and how it was used in that Avengers movie.
Next up, Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart. Buy it used because it's not avaible as an eBook.
S03.38: Ravishing the Heiress by Sherry Thomas: She's Good
We’re talking Sherry Thomas’s beautiful, unrequited love/marriage of convenience story Ravishing the Heiress this week — we’ll talk about angst, about why we love yearning so much, about our feelings about heroes who are dummies, about homes vs. houses, and about Victorians being E X T R A.
Next week, we’re back with the delightful Christina Lauren to play a very fun game with bananas romance novels and celebrate the launch of their fabulous book (now Sarah’s favorite CLo book), The Soulmate Equation. Preorder it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Bookshop.org, or signed from Vroman’s bookstore!
We’re also going to announce our next read along now, because it’s out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly bananas Tangled Lies at your local library or via a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Notes
This is the Eurographics Moon Puzzle that Jen is doing, and it’s too hard.
There is a very funny tweet thread trying to drag the Shadow and Bone TV show, but the replies are terrific.
Jen was texting Sarah in the middle of the night about Ravishing the Heiress, because of the angst!
Here’s an interview where Sherry Thomas talks about how reading romance influenced her as a writer.
We talked about time slip quite a bit on the episode for A Matter of Class by Mary Balogh.
Millie is 16 at the beginning of the book, and because Jen forgot to talk about it, she wrote a thread about Sherry’s deep respect for teenage girls.
A little bit about the history of tinned food and the rise of advertising in Victorian England.
All about the dormouse and keeping them as pets, if you’re into that sort of thing. Give us some credit for not making a joke about Of Mice and Men, thank you.
The Victorians were super extra. Here’s a primer on women in business in the Victorian era. Floriography is the Victorian name for the language of flowers, which ascribes meanings to flowers and plants. For example, chrysanthemums and lavender (and yes rosemary is for remembrance is from Hamlet) have very specific meanings. If you’re interested, check out the book Floriography: An Illustrated Guide to the Victorian Language of Flowers by Jessica Roux.
Bees that make honey from the nectar of lavender flowers is a different thing than people who make lavender-infused honey. Now you know!
Infidelity in Romance is tricky, and Sarah’s book Day of the Duchess is an example, and there really aren’t that many out there.
The myth of Cupid & Psyche in literature and art.
In Season 4 of The Crown, the scene where Camilla Parker-Bowles takes Diana is based in truth, but the name of the restaurant was not Menage a Trois.
Raise a glass to the incomparable Olympia Dukakis.
Next up, we’re dialing the banana phone with Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart.
Join BestFriendKelly’s Sticker of the Month Club. If you put Fated Mates in the note, she’ll send a free sparkly Fated Mates sticker. If you’re already a member, drop her a note and she’ll include it with your next sticker.
S03.37: Widows in Romance
We’re toppling TBRs this week with widow romances! We’re talking widows of all shapes and sizes…from virgin widows who murder their husbands in old school historicals to modern-day widows who are looking for love because they know how good it can be. If widow romances are your thing, we’re about to make you very happy!
Next week, we’re back with an interstitial, and in two weeks, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Sherry Thomas book —Ravishing the Heiress. Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
We’re also going to announce our next read along now, because it’s out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly bananas Tangled Lies at a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Widow Books
Notes
Last week, we talked about Big Pharma, and if you want more of that, read Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe. It’s about the Sackler family and how they made billions on Oxycontin which was a huge factor in the creation of the opioid epidemic.
Daisy Jones and the Six is a great novel, and the full-cast audiobook is supposed to be amazing. The Reese Witherspoon book club is the definition of the full glow-up.
Sarah made some Maple Oatmeal Muffins, and maybe you want the recipe. Why food bloggers include some pre-recipe chatter.
The question of freshman year dorm room decoration is of new significance to Jen since Lil Romance will be heading off to college in the fall. Might we recommend a Pulp Fiction movie poster or some Absolut Vodka ads?
If we’re talking skyscrapers, meaning buildings over 150M (about 500 feet) tall, when this was recorded in April of 2021, Cleveland has 4, Denver has 7, Chicago has 127, and New York has 284. According to wikipedia, only nine cities in the world have over 100 buildings 150M tall. The other seven are Hong Kong (355), Shenzhen (289), Dubai (201), Shanghai (163), Tokyo (158), Chongqing (127), and Guangzhou (118).
Check out the Sassy Podcast and the Babysitter’s Club. No, not that kind of babysitter.
We love the movie Widows.
The merry widow is an opera and a kind of sexy lingerie.
We did an episode on Prisoner of My Desire with Joanna Shupe way back in season one.
Primogeniture laws are all about who inherits titles and money and estates, and wasn't changed in England until 2013.
Apparently there are lots of misconceptions about Arabian horses.
More about Victorian era mourning requirements.
Historically you couldn’t marry your brother’s widow
All about gorillas and where the live, and actually it turns out a gorilla really could kill you in a fight. Sarah was on Learning the Tropes talking about The Earl Takes All, in case you need more of that.
Spoiler alert about The Power Broker in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
We have two read-along books in May. On the 12th, we’ll be reading Ravishing the Heiress by Sherry Thomas. On the 26th, we’ll be reading Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart. It’s out of print and not available as an eBook, so order a used copy from Amazon or ThriftBooks, or check out the audio.
Join the "Romance sticker of the month" club
Preorder Bombshell, which comes out August 24th.