S03.06: We Are Grateful For You - Freewheeling with Sarah & Jen

full-length episodejen and sarah on a rantromance recommendationsS03 - Interstitials
Written By Sarah MacLean

This is a tough week for everyone, so we did what we could do to make ourselves feel a little bit more ourselves despite existential despair—we recorded a podcast. We’re all over the place (we promise this won’t be a theme for the whole season!), but we recommend a TON of books, which is basically all we can do.

We’ve got another episode for you later this week, and next week, we’re deep diving on Alisha Rai’s Serving Pleasure, which is a fantastic erotic romance. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.

Also -- Sarah has a contemporary novella out September 15th! Preorder the Naughty Brits anthology, wherever you get your ebooks: Amazon, Nook, Kobo, Apple, or in print at bookshop.org.

Show Notes

TRANSCRIPT

Ani DiFranco Music Lyric 0:00 / #
My mother was a feminist, she taught me to see the road to ruin is paved with patriarchy. So, let the way of the women guide democracy. From plunder and pollution let mother earth be free. Feminism ain't about women. No, that's not who it is for. It's about a shifting consciousness that'll bring an end to war. So listen up you fathers, listen up you sons. Which side are you on now, which side are you on.

Sarah MacLean 0:38 / #
So we threw our plan out for the week.

Jennifer Prokop 0:40 / #
We did.

Sarah MacLean 0:42 / #
Cuz everything is terrible.

Jennifer Prokop 0:44 / #
Yeah. It's been a bad week.

Sarah MacLean 0:49 / #
Literally, the first thing I texted Jen last night was we got to do a podcast this week. We got to do an episode.

Jennifer Prokop 0:56 / #
Well, because it's September 19. We're recording and last night, Ruth Bader Ginsburg died.

Sarah MacLean 1:03 / #
So I sat on the floor of my bathroom for a little while and cried. And then I walked out of the bathroom and Eric was standing in the hallway. I said, "I feel like this is real existential. This is what existential despair feels like". And he said, "You only just got here."

Jennifer Prokop 1:22 / #
Yeah, there was this Onion article, I guess, it was a tweet. It was sort of like, man who thought he lost all hope realizes he'd really, like really? Now? And that was that was me. Right? I was like, oh.

Sarah MacLean 1:37 / #
But also we had planned to start Joy this week. As a podcast concept. And you know.

Jennifer Prokop 1:46 / #
Maybe...can I suggest that we talk about romance as solace this week, then?

Sarah MacLean 1:51 / #
Yeah. I mean, it's all part and parcel, right? As my mom would say. I don't know. What would we say? We are...I think we are sad. And scared, and mad. And pissed off.

Jennifer Prokop 2:15 / #
Yeah, we're angry. You know? Well, let's say welcome to Fated Mates. Before we move on, we should actually tell people what they're listening to.

Sarah MacLean 2:24 / #
I'm Sarah MacLean. I write romance novels, and I read romance novels.

Jennifer Prokop 2:29 / #
And I'm Jennifer Prokop. I am a romance reader and critic.

Sarah MacLean 2:34 / #
And we are here for you guys this week, because you're here for us this week. I woke up this morning to, a lot of tweets, and DMs. And I just want you guys to know I read a bunch of them out loud to Jen just now. And every one of them is making us feel better.

Jennifer Prokop 2:54 / #
Yeah. I guess what, you know what, here's one other thing I want to say before we start which is. This is like a thing we Ruth Bader Ginsburg dying is, I mean, she was an amazing woman, she, our democracy should not rest upon the life of one 87 year old white woman. This was also a week where we got some really shocking, not... maybe shocking is not the right word, but terrifying news about forced hysterectomies.

Sarah MacLean 3:24 / #
Horrible, monsterous news.

Jennifer Prokop 3:26 / #
Of women in detention by a doctor who is not even a doctor. And I think it's really important, you know, as two women who live in urban areas in blue states, this is, you know, there's a planned parenthood, I drive past all the time, my access to reproductive rights is not a question. That's not really true for women who live in red states. It's not true, where also, I think its not true for poor women. They are the ways in which reproductive rights have stratified based on your geography, based on your income, based on your race. You know, this has been a long time coming. And I think in some ways, I just want to say our existential fear and dread is because now it's everyone. Not just poor women, not just brown and black women, not just women in state, in rural states or rural areas. I mean, so it's really I think it's really hard.

Sarah MacLean 4:24 / #
And not just women.

Jennifer Prokop 4:25 / #
Not just women, right.

Sarah MacLean 4:28 / #
So, yeah, we're having we're having a, we're having a time of it, and I think so are a lot of you. So, we want to talk about how we move forward in this. So we're gonna do our best today. But if this is not a thing that you're ready to listen to, sure, maybe go back and listen to the Rune week episode. I am rereading "Sweet Ruin" for the 83rd time.

Jennifer Prokop 5:08 / #
Can we also talk about how amazing Ruth Bader Ginsburg was. So Little Romance and I one year went, and I dressed as Ruth Bader Ginsburg for Halloween. I, as you all know, teach in the middle school and Little Romance goes to my school. And he was like, "Well, I guess I'll go as a Supreme Court Justice, too." And then he asked a really interesting question, because kids are so funny. And I was like, "Well, you know, there's all these other dudes." And he said, "Well, which one is the most powerful?" I said, "Well, that would be Chief Justice John Roberts." And so he decided that that would be what he would tell people, I mean, he just wore like a black graduation robe. I will put the picture in show notes. It's amazing. Adorable. Um, he was like, "Yeah, I'll just tell everybody I'm John Roberts."

Sarah MacLean 5:55 / #
And imagine at the time you were like, "ugh", but now we're like, "Please God, make Roberts be the sane one in this mix."

Jennifer Prokop 6:04 / #
Yeah. Right.

Sarah MacLean 6:08 / #
Anyway. My Ruth Bader Ginsburg story is that I have a six year old girl, who is six years old in the age of "Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls", which is a really fantastic Kickstarter that became a book series. It was Kickstarted as a hardcover book that is gorgeous. It's a storybook, where it's 50 women throughout the ages from Cleopatra, and Grace O'Malley, a pirate from the 1500s, to Serena Williams, and Malala Yousafzai. And what's amazing is many of these women you have heard of, many of them you have not heard of. And each book, each story is one page long. And then on the facing page is this gorgeous illustration of the the person, whoever the person is. We Kickstarted the first one, and then of course it took off, and now there are I think, three books.

Jennifer Prokop 7:27 / #
That's awesome.

Sarah MacLean 7:28 / #
But they've also started a podcast called, "Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls". We will put links in show notes. I tweeted about it this morning. Because there is a Ruth Bader Ginsburg episode of the podcast, which is fabulous. And this is for like the parents out there. If you are looking for a way to explain Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life and legacy to littles. This podcast is really excellent. So it tells the story, it tells her story, her story of going to graduate school, of going to law school. And being a woman in law school and marrying Marty, and Marty getting cancer and her taking notes for him in class, all while making the Harvard Law Review. But it really is a, sort of, digestible story of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's whole life as a rebel girl.

Jennifer Prokop 8:22 / #
That's awesome.

Sarah MacLean 8:23 / #
And my daughter loves this podcast. And you know, there are all sorts of very, very cool women as part of this podcast. And she's always telling me about these cool women from the podcast. And one day, she came to me about two or three months ago, and she said, "Mom, have you heard of Ruth Bader Ginsburg?" And I said, "I have heard her". And she said, "She is really cool, isn't she?" And I was like, "She really, really is." She's probably listened to that episode of the podcast 25 times. So, we'll put links to it in show notes. It's a great podcast, even for big rebel girls like us.

Jennifer Prokop 9:19 / #
Yeah. I think it's amazing the way in which her life was really celebrated when she was still alive. Like the notorious RBG book or the RBG documentary.

Sarah MacLean 9:33 / #
The Ruth Bader Ginsburg workout book.

Jennifer Prokop 9:36 / #
Oh, yeah. Right. I mean, I had a friend of mine, my friend, she texted me this morning. She's like,' look, I just ordered it because if she could be a badass at that age, then I can be a badass at my age". And I was like, I like it. I like it. So I think there was a way in which we celebrated her life while it was still going.

Sarah MacLean 9:56 / #
Yeah, she knew we thought she was awesome. Which is cool. That's not...that's not something everybody gets, right? I mean, I'm real bummed that we made this poor woman hold together a democracy. At her age she should have been able to live out her golden years. Right? Anyway, it's rough out there everyone, so you want to be gentle with yourselves. And I guess that's where Jen is going with romance as solace. You know, last night, I was sitting on the couch and I was sort of, you know, thousand yard staring at the TV. And Eric looked at me and was like, "What can you do right now? Like, can you read a romance novel?"

Jennifer Prokop 10:47 / #
I love that.

Sarah MacLean 10:47 / #
Like it was medicinal. "Would you like bourbon? Would you like marijuana?"

Jennifer Prokop 10:54 / #
Straight shot. Right? No fooling around.

Sarah MacLean 10:56 / #
"Is there a book you can be reading right now?" And then he was like, " You're an insominac, Jen is an insomniac. Why don't you just record a podcast?" And I was like, "What is happening right now?" He was like casting at straws. What can we be doing? Um, but I think that, you know, that is the point, right? The romance novel. His instinct was, go read a romance novel, because I know they make you happy. And I did actually get into bed and I read half of a romance novel that I can't tell any of you about because it doesn't technically exist. But it's great. And then this morning, you know, I just feel like, today, all I want to do is crawl into bed now with "Sweet Ruin". And you know...cuddle.

Jennifer Prokop 11:49 / #
I think it's really interesting to think about, romance novel is solace, but also the ways in which we approach that, because for me, that's rereading, but it's also for many people, they have the--we joke about the break in case of emergency romance. Right? That one by a favorite author that you have never read that you are like holding for that time. And I will tell you I have never read the Lisa Kleypas with Cam.

Sarah MacLean 12:26 / #
GASP

Jennifer Prokop 12:26 / #
I have been holding that... like it's been on for years. Years, I have been waiting for like a day where I just know that I'm gonna need, need that and I feel like this might be the day. Oh, this might be the day.

Sarah MacLean 12:45 / #
That's a big day. Yeah. I mean, Kresley if you're listening right now, it would be a great time to drop "Munro."

Jennifer Prokop 12:56 / #
God, like Calgon take me away.

Sarah MacLean 13:00 / #
Kresley is like, "These motherfuckers."

Jennifer Prokop 13:02 / #
No, listen. No Kresley loves us.

Sarah MacLean 13:08 / #
Oh, my God. I mean, literally a second before we started recording, I read the tweet that announced--Thank you Twitter for just always taking care of me--someone made sure that I saw that it is it is unconfirmed, but rumored that Tom Hardy is about to become James Bond. And I was like, I'm having a heart attack. I'm MacRieve braining over here. Because I can't handle it. It's...the highs and lows are too much.

Jennifer Prokop 13:45 / #
You know what's really funny is.... I did last night think maybe I should watch a James Bond movie.

Sarah MacLean 13:49 / #
Because you're reading Lee Child!

Jennifer Prokop 13:51 / #
Handsome men blow things up is real solace to me.

Sarah MacLean 13:54 / #
I mean, Tom Hardy taking off his shirt and shooting things.

Jennifer Prokop 13:58 / #
Fine.

Sarah MacLean 13:58 / #
I mean, I'll allow it.

Jennifer Prokop 14:00 / #
He'll have to like roll up his sleeves. Sarah.

Sarah MacLean 14:03 / #
Also, you know what else gave me joy yesterday? Yesterday morning was a very high and low day for me, Jen.

Jennifer Prokop 14:11 / #
That thread!

Sarah MacLean 14:12 / #
You guys, I know. We're all just trying to find hope and joy.

Jennifer Prokop 14:19 / #
Listen coping mechanisms are fine.

Sarah MacLean 14:22 / #
I woke up yesterday morning to a magnificent reader named Melissa to discover that she had spent her evening the night before, and I hope you enjoyed yourself, Melissa. Finding photographs of Tom Hardy that she could pair with Sarah MacLean covers. And then thread was Tom Hardy as Sarah MacLean covers, and it was really, really crazy. "The Day of the Duchess"....

Jennifer Prokop 14:51 / #
"The Day of The Duchess" one is unreal.

Sarah MacLean 14:56 / #
He's such a dirtbag! We are putting that show notes. For sure.

Jennifer Prokop 15:00 / #
Maybe that's all show notes is gonna be.

Sarah MacLean 15:02 / #
What is that picture? The whole picture for this episode should be Tom Hardy as "Day of the Duchess".

Jennifer Prokop 15:07 / #
I can make that happen, I can do that. I have the power. Oh, you know all the chapter images this week will just be those from that.

Sarah MacLean 15:17 / #
Oh my god. So anyway, thanks so much somebody else had done Henry Cavill as Sarah MacLean covers the day before ... you are out there doing the Lord's work for me this week. So thank you. I mean, yeah, I pulled up that Jurgen Klopp, tweet thread last night I was on the phone with you and I'm gonna go read that Jurgen Klopp tweet--This is where I'm at you guys-- I'm finding old Twitter threads to like just suck out the marrow of joy. But you know, then tonight we're hanging out with our friends, we have a plan for tonight to hang out with our good friends and watch this dumb 50 Shades movie.

Jennifer Prokop 16:09 / #
I don't even care. Listen, I don't know that we've updated everyone.

Sarah MacLean 16:13 / #
I'm enjoying it more than I really should, I think.

Jennifer Prokop 16:15 / #
Okay, so we watched number two with everyone now. Okay, so wait here's --everyone-- I have a secret.

Sarah MacLean 16:21 / #
If they're not listening--it's a secret? Jen we have tens of thousands of listeners.

Jennifer Prokop 16:27 / #
No, no this part isnt a secret, we know this part, no listen. If you listen, we talked about...Sarah watched the first one with the RITA writers room.

Sarah MacLean 16:39 / #
Really we don't have to refer to them that way anymore. How about... let's do it this way. Okay, just name them.

Jennifer Prokop 16:45 / #
So Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera...was LaQuette watching it the first time around?

Sarah MacLean 16:50 / #
No, but LaQuette's on the thread because she just likes to mock us.

Jennifer Prokop 16:54 / #
Her text notification the next morning must be insane. Nisha Sharma, Tracey Livesey, and then Andie Christopher.

Sarah MacLean 17:01 / #
And so, here's the fun thing. So Tracey is basically cruise directing this whole thing. You all know this if you listened to the Tracey episode, we talked about this. So she's cruise directing and Nisha comes in. I mean, wearing the full...I mean, 50 Shades head to toe, she's got you know, Christian Grey sneakers. And then we go through the first movie. We watch together, then Jen joins us for 50 Shades...Freed?

Jennifer Prokop 17:32 / #
Okay, so here was the thing...

Sarah MacLean 17:33 / #
No. Darker.

Jennifer Prokop 17:36 / #
I watched the first one on my own I was like, I gotta catch up so that next time they watch...

Sarah MacLean 17:40 / #
Tell everyone this is a confession.

Jennifer Prokop 17:42 / #
Okay, this actual part it's a confession. It's not a secret it's a confession. So

Sarah MacLean 17:46 / #
Jen is a traitorous betrayer.

Jennifer Prokop 17:48 / #
Right so Tracey and I watched the second one together.

Sarah MacLean 17:52 / #
Tracey is a traitorous betrayer.

Jennifer Prokop 17:55 / #
Cuz I was like, I'm kind of obsessed with this. I really want to watch the next one. And I had never read the books. So it was all new to me. Meanwhile, the entire time I was like, Tracey, does this happen in the book? Tracey? Does this happen in the book? Because she was like, "I don't know". It's fine. But, I did secretly watch the second one. And then we watched it all together. But tonight, I'm going in cold on 50 Shades Freed. Is that what it was called?

Sarah MacLean 18:19 / #
Allegedly.

Jennifer Prokop 18:20 / #
What do you mean? allegedly?

Sarah MacLean 18:21 / #
Allegedly.

Jennifer Prokop 18:22 / #
Oh you think I'm lying.

Sarah MacLean 18:22 / #
You lied to me once before. How can I ever trust you when it comes E.L. James? Jamie Dornan and his weird leprechaun head?

Jennifer Prokop 18:32 / #
And his bow tie!

Sarah MacLean 18:34 / #
Ok! I'm gonna ruin 50 Shades Darker for you guys. You ready? The masquerade ball? which everybody knows I love a masquerade. I mean...come on now. Every romance, right? Oh, we should talk about masquerades and like the promise of the masquerade. We've never done that. And that's a fun conversation.

Jennifer Prokop 18:50 / #
Right.

Sarah MacLean 18:50 / #
But I'm gonna ruin it first. So the 50 Shades masquerade in the second book. Like it's sexy, right? He gives her mask and then they go to his parents' house and then they like, do a lot of naughty stuff in his parents house which, Alexis Daria, was not on board, nor was Adriana Herrera, not on board with it. Not Okay. Um, but mainly Adriana is not okay through...I would say 80%.

Jennifer Prokop 19:19 / #
Okay, except for the amazing scene where he flips her.

Sarah MacLean 19:22 / #
Oh, the flip. Forget it. It's real hot.

Jennifer Prokop 19:25 / #
I rewatched that several times. I was like, how is there no GIF of this. And then Adriana was like, "sorry, I'm behind! I had to go back and watch that flip a few times".

Sarah MacLean 19:31 / #
Yeah Adriana just peaced out of the watch from all of us. And like went back to rewatch the flip, which is great. I mean, I support your choices. Anyway, we're watching it. And the masquerade comes on and you guys, Christian's bow tie in this masquerade scene is like a baby's bow tie. It's like a child's bow tie. And I literally throw into text thread--We have an ongoing text thread-- we're watching this and like, why is his bow tie so tiny? And then I kind of ruined it for Tracey, because she'd never noticed.

Jennifer Prokop 20:07 / #
And then you can't not know.

Sarah MacLean 20:09 / #
Now once I've said that to you, you can't not notice it's just a tiny little bow tie.

Jennifer Prokop 20:13 / #
I'm gonna admit something too. So I love a masquerade scene in a book, but I'm always like, how do these mfer's not fucking recognize each other?

Sarah MacLean 20:22 / #
The have to know? Right?

Jennifer Prokop 20:23 / #
Right? They have to know. And then we are watching it with me and Tracey -- sorry -- and I was like, who is this blonde woman talking to Christian? Is it her friend and she's like, no, it's a sister. And I was like, God, reader me is like, "How do they not recognize each other?" Watcher me is like, "Who the fuck is this? Again? She's got a mask on. I don't know."

Sarah MacLean 20:40 / #
Everybody's in a mask. They're just invisible now. Yes, it's except, except the hero always knows who the heroine is.

Jennifer Prokop 20:49 / #
Sure.

Sarah MacLean 20:50 / #
I mean, always.

Jennifer Prokop 20:52 / #
Always.

Sarah MacLean 20:53 / #
Cuz that is... I get the most positive response to the first line in "Daring of the Duke" of the masquerade from his point of view, because I think the first line of that chapter is like, he knew it was her the moment she entered.

Jennifer Prokop 21:06 / #
Right. And she doesn't think he knows.

Sarah MacLean 21:08 / #
Right and cuz she's like, masked. she's wearing a wig. She's like masked. He's like, doesn't matter. No, he's like, I smell you. Like he smells her. Fated Fucking Mates.

Jennifer Prokop 21:18 / #
I was just saying it's like that old category where the guy can smell pregnant women. What was it? What was that one?

Sarah MacLean 21:28 / #
"Warrior"! You guys. I'm gonna reread "Warrior" this week.

Jennifer Prokop 21:33 / #
See? There you go.

Sarah MacLean 21:34 / #
Today, because he can smell women pregnant.

Jennifer Prokop 21:37 / #
He'd definitely know how to identify someone at a masquerade.

Sarah MacLean 21:40 / #
For romance reasons.

Jennifer Prokop 21:42 / #
Here's the other thing -- I was thinking about several things...

Sarah MacLean 21:46 / #
I would... wait, I'm sorry. I want to go back to "Warrior" for a second. Because Nevada --the hero of "Warrior" who can smell women pregnant-- Elizabeth Lowell does some real solid foreshadowing work. Jennifer. Um, was that this episode? No different episode.

Jennifer Prokop 22:03 / #
One day it'll makes sense. We're foreshadowing a future joke about foreshadowing.

Sarah MacLean 22:08 / #
So Elizabeth Lowell does some really great foreshadowing work because he smells pregnancy in like four books before that book. And then she's looking at her, at her notes on him. And she's like, oh, he smells pregnancy. So bam. I know how this is gonna go.

Jennifer Prokop 22:23 / #
Here's the thing about this masquerade scene though. Like, I'm not really a person to pay attention to continuity things... but, before the masquerade, Ana is dressed in some very lovely lingerie. It is truly beautiful. In fact, it only... you know it also remind me of? Season One of Deadwood. Remember when Alma finally gets it on with the--what's his name?

Sarah MacLean 22:46 / #
Crazy eyes. Timothy Olyphant.

Jennifer Prokop 22:47 / #
Yes. She is also wearing some beautiful undergarments. I remember really being like, wow, that is lovely. Do you remember that?

Sarah MacLean 22:54 / #
I don't remember it. But I'm gonna...

Jennifer Prokop 22:56 / #
Find it and I'll like,

Sarah MacLean 22:57 / #
It's a really nice corset.

Jennifer Prokop 22:59 / #
Yes, but it's like kind of black lace and it's very sheer.

Sarah MacLean 23:03 / #
It's mourning undergarments.

Jennifer Prokop 23:05 / #
Sure, sure. Anyway, Ana is wearing this beautiful lingerie, and then she puts on a dress and I was like, wait, you just took all that stuff off!

Sarah MacLean 23:15 / #
A silk dress. I mean the argument--did she take it off?

Jennifer Prokop 23:20 / #
She couldn't have been... literally the straps would have shown.

Sarah MacLean 23:22 / #
Here's my thing about that lingerie. She's all very put together. But she's wearing her garter belts over her undies, which is, I mean, how it looks really perfect. But the reality is, is that if you wear your garter belts over your undies, anytime you have to pee, have sex or have ben wa balls inserted into you. This is important. This is a PSA you guys. You have to undress yourself! I mean, clearly the fantasy is held during the 50 Shades film.

Jennifer Prokop 23:58 / #
Sorry, my seventeen year old just appeared at a real awkward time, but he couldn't hear what you were talking about.

Sarah MacLean 24:04 / #
"Hi!". I'm really glad he couldn't hear what I was talking about. "Hi, Little Romance!"

Little Romance 24:07 / #
I don't know what's happening. So I'm gonna leave now.

Jennifer Prokop 24:09 / #
Okay, bye.

Sarah MacLean 24:09 / #
"Okay, bye". Look at you. He brought you breakfast.

Jennifer Prokop 24:15 / #
Yeah, Mr. ReadsRomance went to Dunkin donuts.

Sarah MacLean 24:18 / #
Oh, I love a Dunkin'.

Jennifer Prokop 24:20 / #
Me too. Can we talk about masquerades? The promise of the premise. That's what we're going to do right now.

Sarah MacLean 24:25 / #
All right. So the promise of the premise of the masquerade. One is, they don't know who the other is. So this is early days in the book, right? Like, if it's in the first couple of chapters, then it has to be sort of like a mystery of who this person is. Although, I mean, I don't know. I'm thinking. So, wait. Are we talking masquerades themselves or the mask itself? Because I think about that, um, delicious Elizabeth Hoyt book. Did you read all those Elizabeth Hoyt books? The Prince books?

Jennifer Prokop 24:59 / #
I think so.

Sarah MacLean 25:00 / #
Tiger Prince, Raven Prince, Serpent Prince. The Raven Prince is the one where he goes to the sex club. And she meets him there. He's going as like a client and she goes and is wearing a mask and she is the sex worker. And she's masked -- but that's another example of she thinks he doesn't know who she is -- And he of course knows right away. Of course. FYI guys we had no intention. We were just going to get it. We just decided we were going to freewheel today. So here we are.

Jennifer Prokop 25:42 / #
Well, we started off with my RBG Halloween costume and we're back to costume. So I feel like it's all a closed circut. Okay, here's my question about masquerades. Do you think this is a historical only trope?

Sarah MacLean 25:56 / #
Well, I mean, it's in 50 Shades, which arguably is...

Jennifer Prokop 25:59 / #
Yeah, but I was like, but other than 50 Shades.

Sarah MacLean 26:01 / #
100 million copies. Were we not clear enough.

Jennifer Prokop 26:05 / #
Right? But they go together.

Sarah MacLean 26:07 / #
Right, because Christian Grey is so an old fashioned, right? He's basically like... What's his name? Rochester. PS Christian Grey would absolutely keep his old wife in the attic.

Jennifer Prokop 26:20 / #
Um, hello? Yes.

Sarah MacLean 26:22 / #
1,000%

Jennifer Prokop 26:23 / #
Like in the book the whole part with like Leila, or no, the movie.

Sarah MacLean 26:28 / #
Yeah, the second book is like some serious Jane Eyre fanfic.

Jennifer Prokop 26:32 / #
For sure.

Sarah MacLean 26:33 / #
It's, you know, a big problem. Adriana...

Jennifer Prokop 26:37 / #
She about had a heart attack. She was like, "Wait, what?" Go back and watch that flip again. Skip over this.

Sarah MacLean 26:45 / #
We should publish the chats. We could make a fortune. Okay, the contemporary masquerades. I mean, there have got to be--It's such a classic trope. Right? Right. This is why we don't usually like truly prepare, but we usually say, oh, we're gonna do an episode on masquerades and then we at least think about it. Yeah, they have to. Everybody at home is like screaming titles at us right now. You know that, right?

Jennifer Prokop 27:16 / #
I do. That's fine. I feel like in some ways, the Naima Simone blackout ones function similarly.

Sarah MacLean 27:26 / #
Like galas, like balls, right. Like, that sort of feel. I mean, I just wrote... the "Naughty Brits" anthology and its connected by a gala, which I think gives it a real romancey feel... that anthology. I mean, I love an anthology. We're going to take a little detour. But I love an anthology that links together. We've talked about this on the podcast, like, I much prefer an anthology where, you know, either some kind of trope, or there's a similar thing, or like all of them interconnect. "Naughty Brits", all of the all of the episodes, all of the stories interconnect at a gala at the British Museum, but it's not a mask.

Jennifer Prokop 28:09 / #
So in a masquerade, it's the whole like, we're strangers to each other, but of course, he recognizes her. But in a modern one. I feel like it's the gala. And it has like that pretty woman effect of the the glow up?

Sarah MacLean 28:27 / #
Yeah, it's like a Cinderella story. You mean? Yeah, I think that's probably reasonable.

Jennifer Prokop 28:36 / #
And not just for women. I think for men, too, right. Like, Oh, my God, look at you and your three piece suit.

Sarah MacLean 28:42 / #
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. You know, I can't think short of 50 Shades. I can't really think of like a, a masquerade, romance, a contemporary masquerade romance. And I think that that's, I think that's probably... Oh, you know, who does it? It's not a masquerade though. So in Nikki Sloane's sex club books, the heroines are always the the walkers are always masked. So there's like a sense of

Jennifer Prokop 29:21 / #
They're blindfolded.

Sarah MacLean 29:23 / #
Oh, their blindfolded. So it's not masks. That's a different thing. I mean, the whole series is called, "The Blindfold Club". So as it is, well, I wonder why. I mean, I guess is it because it's too much fantasy? Because historicals allow, like, here's the thing about historicals is a mask on unlocks the characters right? Like, so where in a historical you're always writing this really fine line between what is allowed, like what we'll get like ruination is always on the table in a historical, I mean, maybe not always, but like 90% of historicals. Ruination is one of the like, the fears, right? This idea because we've talked 1000 times about like patriarchy and what historicals are doing around patriarchy. And the truth is ruination is fucking nonsense is what it is, right? And like, it's about women and sexuality and perception and the way society tries to keep women from pleasure. And it's all those things. And so ruination as a threat is just like always a low level kind of bubbling threat. So masks give us an opportunity. I mean, how many times have I said, I love an identity. What I love about romance is identity, always. And so masks like, there's the one piece which is playing with identity. But there's also that second piece that frees women from the binds and constraints of propriety, because if she's wearing a mask, no one knows who she is. So if she's, like, slutty in the garden.

Jennifer Prokop 31:05 / #
It doesn't matter.

Sarah MacLean 31:06 / #
Yeah. So it's a shorthand for sexual freedom. But also, but without removing patriarchy, right. So because once the mask comes off, like everything goes to shit.

Jennifer Prokop 31:20 / #
So I wonder if that's why it doesn't need to function the same way in a contemporary.

Sarah MacLean 31:24 / #
Because if women just have sex, and it's fine, right? I mean, I was doing. Yeah, so maybe it just doesn't have purpose.

Jennifer Prokop 31:34 / #
I think it's different, right. So in like I said,

Sarah MacLean 31:36 / #
I do love that moment, where he's like, where everyone's like, "Who's that?" And he's "That's my goddess".

Jennifer Prokop 31:45 / #
Right? Well, cuz he's the only one who knows her. He's literally bringing into our world she's never seen before. Right? And I do think that that's how galas often function because we have so many billionaire/millionaire heroes or whatever, right? And so often the woman's appearance into this world... It's not really about patriarchy, as much as it is about class.

Sarah MacLean 32:09 / #
Yes. In contemporaries. Yeah. It's usually it's either it's fish out of water, it's an awareness of like, a whole world that we haven't, that she has not had access to until now.

Jennifer Prokop 32:23 / #
Well, and I think so I think also the payoff is really different and or he? Yeah, sure. I'm thinking okay, so you and I both love Charlotte Stein. Right. And one of my favorite Charlotte Stein's -- and I'm gonna have to look because of course, god knows what the hell are, you know, are titles -- So hold on, while I look at this title, there's one I love, one of my favorites. And like, I feel like no one ever talks about it. But it is like absolutely one of my favorites. And I don't remember the title hold on its "Run to You" is the name of the book. And it starts off with a woman who she her roommate, she figures out essentially is doing these, like assignation she calls them. So she shows up in this hotel room, she doesn't really know what's going to happen. And it turns out that it's like, kind of like, this man's gonna be there. Right. And at the end, though, she falls in love with him. His name's Yanos like, I don't scand, I don't remember where he from. And at the end, though, he takes her he like takes her to the spa, and she gets the full treatment and she wears this whole gown. And he takes her to this ball and she thinks he's trying to change her. And she actually like sort of, she can't deal with it. She's like, I wanted him to want me for me. I didn't want him to like, make me over. And I thought it was a really clever play on the glow up right like instead of the Pretty Woman moment being like, yes, look, you can fit in anywhere. Is her saying I actually just wanted to I wanted you to love me for me. I didn't want you to have to make me something I'm not in order to fit in with your world. Of course it was all a misunderstanding. It was fine, but

Sarah MacLean 34:13 / #
Fine.

Jennifer Prokop 34:14 / #
I did really like so I do. I think the gala and the ball is just different in a, in a modern romance. I think it has different stakes.

Sarah MacLean 34:22 / #
I think also that I do think you're right that I think that it's it's often about money. I think about that scene. In the Sylvia Day series helped me Help me the "Crossfire".

Jennifer Prokop 34:37 / #
"Crossfire". I was like the to you series.

Sarah MacLean 34:39 / #
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's that great scene, which is there's a scene in that series that's also at a gala or like a fundraiser, and they are sitting together and she is an and the dynamic is very much like he's a billionaire. She's not, She's like a young ingenue. And the they are having the moment at the table where there is a lot of like there's it's clear that like she is left out of the conversation or being manipulated in the conversation because she is not their kind, right? Like she's not their people. And it's a very class focused moment. And she uses her safe word at the table.

Jennifer Prokop 35:30 / #
Oh, wow, that's intense.

Sarah MacLean 35:31 / #
Have you read that book.

Jennifer Prokop 35:33 / #
I think I read the first one.

Sarah MacLean 35:34 / #
I don't know if it's the first one or the second one, somebody will tell us. But she's safe words him at the table during the conversation. And he instantly stops like, on a dime. And that and it's like, an incredible moment of like, power. And like this conversation around identity and power and, yeah, and how sex is more than just what happens between two people in private. Like, Yes, there is. It is a magnificent scene because of the way it balances power. And I think you're right, I think, you know, I think about um, you know, there are so in Lisa Kleypas in her contemporaries, and this is unsurprising, right? Like, Lisa is a historical Queen, right? Well, arguably the best of us in history. And so like when she right went, but when she came to her contemporaries, there were a lot of these like kind of Texan balls that happened, and like gave opportunities to have these conversations. What is interesting about this for me, though, is that it is so completely fantastical for most of us, like I always do every year, I make the same New Year's joke, right, which is I've been living in New York City for 20 years, and no one has ever invited me to a "When Harry Met Sally" style New Year's Eve party, like I have never been invited to have, you know, Eric run in the rain and say,

Movie Dialogue 37:12 / #
"I love that you get cold when it's 71 degrees. I love that it takes you an hour and a half to order a sandwich. I love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you're looking at me like I'm nuts. I love that after I spend the day with you, I can still smell your perfume on my clothes. And I love that you are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night."

Sarah MacLean 37:32 / #
I think that fantasy of it's really old fashion, there's like a comfort to it. There is Yeah, because readers, we sort of know what happens at a ball. Like we know that ball is where like gentle courtship, there's something soft about it, even when it's not soft.

Jennifer Prokop 37:49 / #
Well, I also think it's really embedded in like the Cinderella trope, which is so I think it's like impossible to get away from and I think, you know, like going off to the ball and the fairy godmother and then you know, being recognized for who you are, even though no one else can see that. I mean, that's a really powerfully built into, like our society. But I mean, there are Cinderella stories from all over the world right there. This is a story that humanity loves, not just Americans. I think it's also a very visual trope. Yeah. And what I mean by that is, I don't know you guys look at the mirror every morning and I'm like, whatever. You know, like, I mean, same. Like the ugly duckling turning into a swan like that's, I love that. Yeah.

Sarah MacLean 38:46 / #
You know, have you read Theodora Taylor, we read her books.

Jennifer Prokop 38:51 / #
One but I it was a I don't remember though. It was there was not a ball.

Sarah MacLean 38:56 / #
So first of all, these were recommended to me by Kenya Gauri Bell, who is amazing, um, who is like the most wonderful person. Yeah, possibly in romance. She's just a delight. Um, so Kenya and I were in Alabama together immediately before COVID like we did an event in in Alabama, and I did an event with Naima Simone and Kenya was there and we all went out and hung out and talked about romance novels. As you know, you do when you hang out with me. Um, and she recommended this book called Holt, which is written by Theodora Taylor, who in it's like, the series title is like ruthless billionaires or something. And it begins with the heroine turning up at like a skyscraper for a party like very interestingly, like very Naima. Yeah, like this kind of there is this like big party that's happening and she has like, no money at all to her name, and she gets to this party. And it's like, you know, our writhing mass of like people partying. And there is one man who like is above it all, and it's happening at his home. But he's like, kind of bored by it. And I think that's a piece of it, too. Like, this idea that like,

Jennifer Prokop 40:27 / #
I love that. I love it when they're bored of it.

Sarah MacLean 40:29 / #
The hero can have anything in the world, like he can literally it's going back to that it's it harkens back to that Nicki Sloane book that I love so much, right? Where he's like, I'm literally in that book, above it all, looking down, and he can point to the person he wants and say that person, and there are all these remarkable people in the room. But he chooses you. And he chooses you. This is the value of the mask, right? Like he chooses you with, or without the mask. Um, because he can see he can see you he can see all sides of you. So like, it's, it's a really like, and it is like it's exactly what it sounds like. It's like super alpha guy, like, you know, if this is your kink, this book will really work for you. Um, so, you know, but I think about, Oh God, who's that other woman who I love Jean O'Reilly. Is that her name? Have you read Jane O'Reilly ever?

Jennifer Prokop 41:42 / #
It's not Jane O'Reilly. It's,

Sarah MacLean 41:44 / #
You're thinking of Kathleen O'Reilly.

Jennifer Prokop 41:46 / #
I'm thinking Kathleen O'Reilly okay.

Sarah MacLean 41:47 / #
No, I'm not talking about that. I like Kathleen O'Reilly too. And when we do our bartender episode, yes. Okay, as everyone knows that, that's what I'm looking for right now. Um, we will talk about Kathleen O'Reilly because I do love those New York City bartender episodes, but no, hang on. I'm gonna look. Jane O'Reilly. It's true. She's English. And she wrote a book called.

Jennifer Prokop 42:13 / #
Oh, I've read that.

Sarah MacLean 42:15 / #
Yeah, it's not I mean, I recommend I don't think I've ever recommended on the podcast. This actually just became like, just a big, let's just talk about books. We like, fine episode, whatever, who cares?

Jennifer Prokop 42:25 / #
Um, this podcast is free. Everybody so.

Sarah MacLean 42:31 / #
Sorry. Um, so she wrote a book called The pressure plates principle, which is a novella. And it's like, part of again, like part of a series of novellas. But this is a similar thing where the heroine, Oh, God, I love it insecure and insecure about sex heroin, like, the heroin has some some bad I know, I understand that some of my things are deeply problematic, but like, I don't know, it's 2020 leave me alone. So but I love it when like so she said the heroine is coming off like this very bad relationship, where when she broke up with this guy who was terrible to her, he was basically like, you are terrible in bed. Like you suck at sex. And so she's like super insecure about sex. She's in like PR works for some PR company in England is set in England. It's contemporary. I think Jane O'Reilly is English. And the her like, outrageously sexy boss. Hosts these like bacchanals.

Jennifer Prokop 43:35 / #
Great. Great.

Sarah MacLean 43:40 / #
So she turns up at one of them and here we are bored hero. Tired of supermodels.

Jennifer Prokop 43:51 / #
I cannot get enough of that bullshit. I really cannot. It's a great.

Sarah MacLean 43:55 / #
And he's and she asks him for sex lessons. Like she's basically like, I'm bad at sex. And he's like, I feel confident that that is not the case. Never and then he's like, but yes, I will give you sex lessons. So it's like educational kissing, which is another trope we love and should do an episode about but like, again, like this sort of bored. I don't know. Why are we doing this today? I don't know. Why isn't this it's

Jennifer Prokop 44:22 / #
Where we are. Sarah, where we are.

Sarah MacLean 44:25 / #
You know why? Because I'm an insecure heroine right now. I'm like, I don't know. I want a bored. I want a bored person to just be like,

Jennifer Prokop 44:34 / #
Fix this. Like, yeah

Sarah MacLean 44:35 / #
I will teach you about sex. And also I see you and it's all gonna be okay.

Jennifer Prokop 44:41 / #
So, you know, this is a perfect opportunity to mention our favorite Derek Craven, who does not recognize Sarah when she comes to the masquerade.

Sarah MacLean 44:49 / #
No, dummy

Jennifer Prokop 44:52 / #
His factotum does danger you dummy. You know why? Cuz They think we just want the world to be different right now. I think it's perfect. I'm always looking for a way to make the metaphor work everybody sorry,

Sarah MacLean 45:06 / #
Shout out to every person who is selling witch romance is right now. Because there are which romance is like every two days. So for those of you who are not in publishing, there's this email list that you can get on you have to pay for it, but, and I, and it's called publishers lunch, and you get a email every day about the deals like the new publishing deals that are coming out. And for the last like, three months, it's just been like, witch series, after witch series, after witch series in romance and like, I am here for it. Oh, like, in a huge way, because I just feel like I don't, I don't want real life like I don't. I want to read historicals. I want to read paranormals. I want to read things where like, power. I want to read about power. Yes. I want to read about power, but I want to read about power.

Music Lyric 45:55 / #
I can break you will, I can make you kneel. I can force you to crawl and to lick my heels. Cause the power is mine. Power is mine.

Sarah MacLean 46:03 / #
Like where like men has to be like, broken down. Yeah. And I want that, because I want power redistribution in the world.

Jennifer Prokop 46:16 / #
Yeah, me too.

Sarah MacLean 46:19 / #
You know, RBG has that famous quote about like, people always ask her like, when will When will the supreme she be happy with the the way the Supreme Court is broken up? And she says when you're alive? Because there have been nine men on the court for so long. And nobody's ever questioned that. And it just feels like, that's how it should be.

Jennifer Prokop 46:40 / #
Maybe it's naviete, maybe it's just like the access we have to the world. But I've never thought the world was fair. But the way in which is so blatantly unfair now. Right. And the that feels, aggressive.

Sarah MacLean 47:00 / #
The other book I was thinking about this morning, and, you know, was night and Nalini Singh's "Slave to Sensation", which we've never talked about, because we spent so much time in the first season talking about paranormals that I write, like, we write, just have sort of, we've never talked at length about other paranormals. And we should, you know, probably rectify that this season. But like, the premise of slave to sensation, the heroine has emotions, right? And like, the universe that Nalini has created in that, in that book, is a universe where emotions are, are devalued. Like they like it's a weakness, um, which, I mean, it's like, it just feels like, that's real patriarchy. Right? And, yeah, but the hero actually, like, feeds on them, like he can. He gets sustenance from emotions. And so she's, you know, there, she's in hiding. And there's this real sense of, like, power just being so codified in that relationship, and how, how emotion how, like, emotions in women, and like, things that are considered to be softer and weaker, are actually incredible power. And I feel like that's where we are, you know, it's like that. It's that Rebecca Tracer books, you know, like, "Good and Mad", "Good and Mad". And, Mona Eltahaway's "The Seven Necessary Sins of Women and Girls", and it just feels like, anger is all we have now. Yeah. And I, I mean, I think they're, weirdly, we just talked about a bunch of romance novels that are not about women's anger, like they are about, you know, I don't know, sex deals and masquerades. But, but also, I think, like, maybe maybe they aren't, are about about maybe that's part of it, too, like that mask as like, we're all wearing masks all the time. And maybe it's time for us all to take them off and like show the world that we're furious.

Jennifer Prokop 49:09 / #
Like my fury, in my mid 40s is not as threatening, you know, I'm a white lady like, right? Like, I mean, I'm a school teacher. I mean, I just feel like the whole thing too, about like, who gets to be mad. Right, and how that madness is how your anger is perceived as threatening or not. I mean, it's also Rosh Hashanah. So Happy New Year to all of our listeners. And my friend Julie mentioned that she went to services last night, like on zoom or whatever, and that her Rabbi said, "despair is not a strategy". And I was like, that's really good for me to remember. Because it's like people, like people have fought to make the world better for a really long time.

Sarah MacLean 50:01 / #
Yep. So what do we do, Jen? What is a strategy? Call your senators? Yes. Even if you live in blue states, Jen and I live in blue states, I have two blue senators, they have both said like, but I mean, my senators are in line, but like, call your senators make sure they know that you are expecting them to fight with every fiber of their being, even if even though it feels like that is, I mean, we are despairing. If you live in a swing state in a place that has either one blue and one red senator or in a state where your senator, your red senator is up for reelection? Mm hmm. Call your senators. Um, you know, I think this is especially true in places like Maine, where like Susan Collins might win her seat back if she steps up here. So call your senators.

Jennifer Prokop 50:57 / #
If I think act blue reported last night that it was making money hand over fist for swing states and for campaigns, I think Arizona is going to be really important because the reelection there because essentially that Senator, whoever wins is going to get seated faster because of the way like that election is working. I can't remember the details like whatever.

Sarah MacLean 51:26 / #
Jon Favreau, who used worked for Barack Obama, a speechwriter runs on a PAC. I mean, I don't know if we call it a PAC. But it's a it's a fund. And it's called "Get Mitch or Die Trying". And we will put links to it in show notes. That is the pack that raised something like $10 million in three hours last night, because democrats are mad, people are fired up. So call your senators, also do what you can if you don't have money, because a lot of us don't, because it's real hard out here. And we are like, there's also a pandemic on and we understand the burden that that has caused on a lot of families. You can text bank, you can phone bank. Last night, I tried to get addresses from postcards to voters, and there was only one campaign that had addresses still. So I think a lot of people are doing now. So sign up, sign up, sign up for all that stuff. I actually have a text bank training this afternoon at two o'clock for Wisconsin. But you can sign up in individual states if you want to. If you are planning to vote by mail, vote early so that your vote is already counted. By the time the election comes.

Jennifer Prokop 52:42 / #
Well, Virginia had early voting start to speak and they've never seen lines like that. So I have to assume that voters are really motivated and we just need to stay that way like now is, now is the time right if you've been like saving your energy for the final stretch like it's the sprint now it's not a marathon any more.

Sarah MacLean 53:03 / #
Well, here Look, this is the possible gold, gold's lining silver line gold at what, what color is silver lining?

Jennifer Prokop 53:10 / #
So like Anna's dress up at the ball.

Sarah MacLean 53:14 / #
The lining is silver. But the silver, the possible silver lining here is look, we all know that Joe Biden is like, not the most exciting like a lot of us were hoping for someone else. But here we are. And Ginsburg, we have to like honor her legacy here. And like get fired up for the court, get fired up for the Senate, get fired up for the future. We are really, in get fired up for the those families on the border, and for black families across America and for women across America and Trans people across America. And stay try and do what you can to stay fired up for the next 40 whatever days. We are going to be here with you every step of the way. We are going to try and stay fired up we are going to try and keep let's try and keep each other fired up. Take care of yourselves and remember self care but you know also we got to push through.

Jennifer Prokop 54:20 / #
Yeah, the thing it was really funny and people the things that you find solace in besides reading romance like, Eric last night was like there's more of us than there are of them. That's why they need to cheat.

Sarah MacLean 54:32 / #
By the millions there are really literal millions more of us than there are of them.

Jennifer Prokop 54:36 / #
Yeah. And that is really important for me to remember I feel like one of the down, I mean social media is like so amazing my life in a lot of ways. I found all of you through social media but

Sarah MacLean 54:47 / #
I mean Tom Hardy as Sarah MacLean covers.

Jennifer Prokop 54:50 / #
Right it's really hard sometimes to not focus on the all the like those bad stories that bubble up but you know, most of us are out here like trying to do the right thing wearing our masks, we want to vote, we want to help the election. We want to like restore, we can have democracy, we want people to have their civil rights. And I just feel like that helps me. It helps me to remember that.

Sarah MacLean 55:13 / #
It's hard out here. But it is it is easier for us than it has been in the past for a lot of people. You know, I hold tight, I hold tight to President Obama saying like, it is better now than it was, like it is always better. And you know, watching the DNC it's clear, the President Obama is real mad. Yeah. And I'm glad for it. It's right. Um, but there is, but that's where we are.

Jennifer Prokop 55:44 / #
Yeah, I think one last thing I guess I want to say is like, cling to your personal happiness, wherever you find that. One thing that we say all the time in romance is that like, the past didn't need to be perfect that people found personal happiness, even in times of great struggle. That's like the cornerstone of the whole thing. But I feel like one of the things that we see all the time, right is when you know, people, you know, some of our fellow white ladies will say things like, well, how could so and so be happy back then. And I just feel like this is why you have to cling to your personal happiness now, right? Whatever it is in this world right now that is bringing you joy. That is a positive net effect good thing, and none of us should feel bad about those things, whatever they are, right. Like my friend, Ernie and his husband have their new baby this week. And he had a baby and the baby next were remote controlled for like scale. And I was like the baby so tiny. Joy, it's joy to joy.

Sarah MacLean 56:50 / #
Yeah, it is joy. And also you guys like, don't let Twitter get you down. If like, if you're happy about the James Bond casting, or the Juergen Klopp thread, or the video that Rex Chapman is that his name Rex Chapman, it posted today of like, whatever adorable animal thing. Like, you're allowed. You're allowed. We have to suck the joy out of out of everything. Right? To be able to power to keep going the fight. And it's, you know, I feel like there's that. Did you ever watch the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt that show?

Jennifer Prokop 57:34 / #
I'm a bad watcher Sarah?

Sarah MacLean 57:35 / #
I know you don't watch TV. Um, but anyway, so there's there is this comedy that was on for a little while. And it was, you know, kind of adorable. And she had this thing where she was like, you can do anything for 10 seconds, right? Like, I feel like we can do anything for 45 days. Yeah. And we'll tackle it on November 4.

Jennifer Prokop 57:56 / #
Yep. We will.

Sarah MacLean 57:58 / #
We'll have an episode on November 4. We will. That's what we can promise you. It will be here November 4. Yep. After that. Who knows? Cuz, Jen, Jen exhausts me. Um, all right. We love you guys.

Jennifer Prokop 58:16 / #
Be strong.

Sarah MacLean 58:17 / #
And yeah, we're here where we're thinking of you. We're really grateful for you. How about that? We you are keeping, you are keeping us going?

Jennifer Prokop 58:26 / #
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing. Again, I say it a lot like romance was such a solitary thing I loved and now it doesn't have to be and it is really amazing that that's how my world is now.

Sarah MacLean 58:43 / #
Yep. All right. This is Fated Mates. And what else you can find us at Fatedmates.net. There you can find all sorts of information about merch and transcripts and a link to the Spotify playlist of all the music that gets played during these episodes. We are produced by Eric Mortensen. Next week, we are reading Alicia Ries "Serving Pleaure", which is a book that gives both of us a whole lot of joy. Yes. And we hope it will give you a lot of joy to it is real sexy, and a great fun read for this week. So get on that.

Jennifer Prokop 59:30 / #
And we were all over the place. So tell us where you are. That's all.

Sarah MacLean 59:37 / #
I mean, this is the second week in a row we were all over the place. You understand that? Yeah. Adriana on Twitter, but Adriana texted us a GIF of the way she imagined our brains working during the "Heart of Blood and Ashes", episode. And it was not wrong. And we're kind of sorry.

Jennifer Prokop 59:58 / #
I'm not sorry about any of it.

Sarah MacLean 1:00:01 / #
You know, feels like in season three, we should be better at this.

Jennifer Prokop 1:00:05 / #
Times are rough though, Sarah, I feel like you know, I? Well, one of the things I say at school a lot, is I'm always asking this question, right, which is like, what is really, I'm an English teacher right? So, it's like what is the most important thing right now is like how do I get kids engaging and reading and writing? Like everything else falls away? Like what is the core of your discipline? And I feel like, you know, the core of our discipline in this podcast is that we just fucking love these books so goddamn much that our brains are like, just neurons firing all the time.

Sarah MacLean 1:00:39 / #
I mean, to be honest, I think that you all kind of love these books, too. So yeah, I mean, they wouldn't still listen, we know they're listening. I can see the data.

Jennifer Prokop 1:00:48 / #
I know you do love data. You do love data.

Sarah MacLean 1:00:50 / #
I must suck.

Jennifer Prokop 1:00:51 / #
Eric. Eric sends us the data every week. And I just say things like, wow.

Sarah MacLean 1:00:59 / #
And I'm like, can you explain this curve? Yeah. So anyway, you guys we love you. Stay strong, as Elizabeth Warren would say "Fight Only Righteous Fights".

Sarah MacLean
Sarah writes books. There's smooching in them.
https://sarahmaclean.net
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S03.07: A Discussion with Julie Moody-Freeman from the Black Romance Podcast
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S03.05: A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane: Because Moon Reasons