S03.17: The Hating Game by Sally Thorne: Lucy! Obviously Danny didn't send the roses!
There aren’t many recent romances you can point to and categorically label as game changers, but Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game definitely fits this bill. We talk about all the ways we love it, about sparkling dialogue and witty writing and what makes a romcom and how this book changed the cover game for a generation of romance. Oh, and yes, we get to the bottom (jk, there is no bottom) of Jen’s issues with first-person present.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order before December 5th for Christmas delivery!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial, and the following week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Fated States
Show Notes
Bridget Jones’s Diary came out in 1996 and the movie came out in 2001.
Enemies to Lovers is a completely beloved romance trope. Rivals to lovers lives within the larger trope and is very fun because it is often a perfectly matched pair on an even playing field. Sarah wrote Brazen & the Beast after being inspired by The Hating Game.
Here’s what we mean when we say situational comedy.
Jen hates present tense, but of course everyone should write what’s right for them.
Is it chick lit or is it women’s fiction? Why do these labels even exist? Just go back and read The Girl’s Guide to Hunting and Fishing or Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner.
We don’t talk about voice that much, but maybe we should.
There was a short lived Harlequin chick lit line called Red Dress Ink in 2001.
Here’s what Jen teaches her kids about characterization.
The Slate article about interiors and a very thorough rebuttal from Felicia Davin.
We talked about another hero who came up through Twilight fanfic.
If you like a scene where one main character tells off the family on behalf of their beloved, you should read Her Naughty Holiday by Tiffany Reisz.
In two weeks, we'll be reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. We are getting ready for Bridgerton and Wonder Woman 1984.
If you're interested in the Fated Mates Best of 2020 book pack and you want it delivered by Christmas, make sure you order it by 12/5.
S03.03: Fifty Shades of Grey by EL James: Romance Has Gotten Hotter And I Think I Like It
If we’re going to talk about the last 10 years of romance — what we’d call modern romance — it’s basically impossible to do that out in the world without someone who doesn’t know much about the genre asking about EL James’s Fifty Shades of Grey. This week, Fated Mates is talking about Fifty Shades. Or, rather, we’re talking about what we're really talking about when we talk about Fifty Shades of Grey.
At no point in this discussion do we talk about tampons. You’re welcome.
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial for you! And the week after, we’re deep diving on Milla Vane’s A Heart of Blood and Ashes, which is a long fantasy romance. If you are a reader who needs content warnings, you might want to check out reviews on Goodreads.
Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Show Notes
There are honestly so many articles about Fifty Shades that Jen couldn't possibly even link to them. But the one about the increase in ER visits, necktie sales up 23%, and Jen wrote about the history of romance between Fabio and Fifty Shades.
Drunk Austen went through a rather spectacular break-up last week; we promise never to do this and swear we are full legal partners in our current venture.
Fanfiction brought Christina Lauren, Tara Sue Me, Sally Thorne and so many others to us. And lots of great BDSM was written after Fifty Shades by too many authors to count, but many think of The Original Sinners series by Tiffany Reisz as being truly excellent.
There's a reason why women hate dealing with car salesmen and mechanics. Jen wants you to know that if you're in Chicago and looking for a mechanic, the guys at Ashland Tire and Auto will never treat you like that.
Perhaps you're interested in whether or not Fifty Shades of Grey was copyright infringement?
The 2010 He-cession vs the 2020 she-cession.
Sarah reviewed Grey for the Washington Post, and just a few weeks ago, Midnight Sun (Twilight from Edward's Point of View was released.
Ope. We forgot to talk about Thomas Hardy, so just read this article from The Guardian instead.
Mrs. Robinson refers to a character in the 1967 film The Graduate.
Flat Stanley is a character in a children's book, but here we are talking about the theory that readers insert themselves into a book and become the main character. Many people believed that teenage girls reading Twilight imaged themselves as Bella, for example, but that's deeply rooted in misogny. In Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women, Laura Kinsale suggested that women reading romance imagine themselves as the hero rather than the heroine.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold a lot of fucking copies. A lot. A lot!
Lori Perkins was the editor of Fifty Writers on Fifty Shades of Grey. You can also check out Hard Core Romance: Fifty Shades of Grey, Bestsellers, and Society by Eva Illouz.
Jen refers to Christian as the Marlboro Man, a symbol of a kind of gruff, male, American renegade loner.
Where does Kink come from? And what Fifty Shades gets right and wrong about kink and BDSM.
S02.18: Born in Ice: The One Where the Hero Smokes
It’s Nora Roberts week at Fated Mates, and we’re reading one of young Jen’s favorite books, Born in Ice, the second in the Born In trilogy, set in Ireland. This week, we’re talking why Nora Roberts is romance royalty, writing writers, the way contemporary romances age, and how weird it is when you read that a hero smokes. Oh, and of course, we’re talking about what the hell is happening in romance right now.
Don’t miss a single moment of our 2020 episodes — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast if you’re so inclined!
In two weeks, we’ve got another of Jen’s pics, Kristen Callihan’s Managed, which you may recognize as “SCOTTIE,” which is how Jen refers to it because she loves him so much. We think you’ll love it, too, and if you have time, read the next in the series, Fall, which is one of Sarah’s top 10 romances ever. Read Managed at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
Who knows what the RWA situation is when you read this, but as of this podcast, the absolute best source is Claire Ryan's blog post outlining the timeline of events. There was lots of national news coverage, but the "come on girls" comment was on NPR.
The 2019 RITA ceremony was amazing, and one that celebrated the history of romance. In between when we recorded this episode and when it was released, RWA cancelled the 2020 RITA awards. When Sarah said "it was a check the organization couldn't cash" she's alluding to a less well-known section of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech.
"La Nora" is how many people refer to Nora Roberts. Sarah mentions some of her earliest category romances, including Gabriel's Angel, an early Nora from the Silhouette Intimate Moments line. She's also read Naked In Death (Jen hasn't), but Jen loved The Brides quartet, which was probably the last Nora Roberts series she read.
Sarah said she feels like readers should at least have read ten percent of an author's backlist for full romance competency. Should the "Ten Percent Rule" be a plank of the official Fated Mates Romance Reader platform? Discuss.
When we talk about Nora Roberts, we used a lot of superhero language: her origin story; her vanquishing of a villanous and duplicitous plaigiarist--twice!; owning her own town; her complete dominance of the bestseller lists. None of it is hyperbole. It's possible she actually is a superhero.
Lots of authors made statements about the RWA situaton. Here is Nora's, and then JR Ward's.
Virginity in romance has come a long way. PS. Virginity is a construct.
Somewhere in the 43 minute mark, Jen says "ope," which is the most Midwestern of sayings. If the twitter account Midwest vs. Everybody doesn't make you laugh so hard you wheeze, you're probably part of the everybody.
Jen isn't the only one who thinks smoking is a short cut for villainy. She thinks The X-Files is to blame. Also, PSA: vaping is really bad for you, too.
Birth control in romance has changed so much, listen to our episode on bodily autonomy for more discussion of this topic.
What does it mean to do something in a fugue state?
Sarah's big thread about why authors shouldn't be afraid of the problematic content in their old romances.
If you're interested in a big interesting book about The Troubles, Jen recommends Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe.
What's a moor anyways?
So you wanted to know what it was like to fly the Concorde?
Buying a car? Sounds like that other Grey. Too bad this Gray was a Confederate apologist. Saying the Civil War was about "a way of life" instead of slavery is a classic Lost Cause myth. As Courtney Milan says, the devil doesn't need your advocacy.
Buy buttons and stickers from Kelly, tshirt and swag from Jordan, particpate in a 2020 reading challengewith Jen and Sarah, and fill out this survey for Eric.
In two weeks, we'll be discussed Managed and Fall by Kristen Callihan. If you have to pick one, make it Managed. As of this episode airing, Jen has tweeted just the word Scottie with a swooning gif at least 11 times.
Our listener call in book was Star King by Susan Grant.
S02.08: Competence & Careers in Romance
Today, we’re talking jobs in romance novels—why we love them, when we hate them, what’s the proper work/smooch balance, and what we mean when we say “competence porn.” This is a far reaching, many-rec episode that involves discussion of billionaires, of wealth, of power, of what Sarah means when she says heroes have to be kings, no matter what. We’ll also try to get to the bottom of what an Enterprise Holding, LTD is. Nah, that’s a lie, because who cares?! Oh, and stay tuned for Sarah’s treatise on the importance of local journalism.
Don’t forget to subscribe to Fated Mates in your favorite podcasting platform — subscriptions mean so much! While you’re there, please leave us a like or a review if you feel so inclined!
Next week, we’re taking you to blasphemy town! Or are we?! The read is Sarah’s pick, Sierra Simone’s Priest, which is an erotic romance in first-person hero POV, featuring a priest and an exotic dancer (NB: She is not Catholic). If sex in church is your concern, maybe skip this one, but also know that there’s a lot fo religious allegory in here that is fascinating and brilliant. Content warning for discussion of the Catholic Church and sexual abuse. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
Show Notes
Jen said fossils are boring. It wasn't a good look.
Defining competence porn.
Despite when Jen said, most sex toys are not made out of neoprene. And please be cautious about the sex toys you buy.
Imposter syndrome is the worst for everyone but these guys.
The Joanna Shupe book about the architect is actually called A Scandalous Deal.
If you do want to read books about fossils, Amanda Quick and Tessa Dare have them. Eloisa James does not. Manda Collins does. Sarah MacLean does not.
What's wrong with "Not Like Other Girls."
What's a bluestocking?
Doogie Howser was a doctor, not an astrophysicist.
How to avoid the "What do you do" question.
The recent Supreme Court case about the rights of queer people to work.
Sarah mentioned an article about how Americans haven't gotten a raise in 40 years, and Jen mentioned the struggle to stay in the middle class.
Lori Lightfoot won the Chicago mayor's election, but here's the story about her background and why Black Lives Matter activists are worried.
The thing Jen made into a job: writing about romance for Kirkus.
High School Musical 2 had the "I need a college scholarship" plot.
Jen really hated This is 40.
Are you in Chicago? Come to Jen's romance book club at 57th Street Books or at Love's Sweet Arrow.
Divorce has profoundly negative impact on women's financial security.
Sarah mentioned a twitter thread about mothers telling their daughter's to have separate money and why women get jewelry as wedding gifts.
All women work, even if they don't have a job outside the home.
An overwhelming majority of American school teachers are white women.
You should read Catch and Kill if you can, but the story about how it impacted Ronan Farrow's relationship is also interesting.
This week, caller Samantha from Kuala Lumpur recommends Spellbound by Nora Roberts.
Next up is Priest from Sierra Simone.
15: How Is She Even Able To Walk? - The Master
We’re back with The Game Makers Series this week — talking with the wonderful Sophie Jordan about her favorite book in the series, The Master! Starring Maxim Sevastyan and the first-time escort who lays him flat (in all ways), This one has all the insane sex stuff of the last Game Makers book, now with birth control insanity, and a sweet nod to holiday traditions…and a trip into the Internet to look at chastity belts.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, IT IS HAPPENNNINNNGGGGG! We have reached Sweet Ruin, Sarah’s favorite book in the IAD series, and she is BEYOND EXCITED to talk about her favorite Kresley hero and the magnificent, perfect heroine who refuses to back down from their fated matehood. Block off some time, as we can’t guarantee this will be anything near a normal length episode! Read Sweet Ruin at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie. Also, we promise you won’t be disappointed by the audio of this one!
Show Notes
Welcome Sophie Jordan!
You should listen to the Wicked Wallflowers podcast where Sophie talks about her Game Makers Series theory.
The politics of lane-sharing at the pool are more complicated then you'd think!
In case you don't know what pendejo means.
ICYMI: one of our first interstitials was about the escort trope.
I guess we did learn more about what Christian was thinking when she fell over the threshold in that 50 shades sequel, Grey.
Is there really a morning after shot?
The Smart Bitches gave The Master a D! /clutches pearls
If you haven't read Lord of Scoundrels, you should.
I decide who is a Pretty Woman quote. Of course.
The Robin Hood Men in Tights chastity belt, or iron underwear as it's more commonly known.
Sophie's upcoming book is The Duke's Stolen Bride.
You can preorder signed copies of Brazen and the Beast from Word in Brooklyn. You can download Wicked and the Wallflower for $2 all of June.
"That great Kerrigan Byrne Newgate one" is called The Highwayman.
Bitch Planet is an amazing comic.
Sweet Ruin is coming!