S02.18: Born in Ice: The One Where the Hero Smokes
It’s Nora Roberts week at Fated Mates, and we’re reading one of young Jen’s favorite books, Born in Ice, the second in the Born In trilogy, set in Ireland. This week, we’re talking why Nora Roberts is romance royalty, writing writers, the way contemporary romances age, and how weird it is when you read that a hero smokes. Oh, and of course, we’re talking about what the hell is happening in romance right now.
Don’t miss a single moment of our 2020 episodes — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast if you’re so inclined!
In two weeks, we’ve got another of Jen’s pics, Kristen Callihan’s Managed, which you may recognize as “SCOTTIE,” which is how Jen refers to it because she loves him so much. We think you’ll love it, too, and if you have time, read the next in the series, Fall, which is one of Sarah’s top 10 romances ever. Read Managed at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
Who knows what the RWA situation is when you read this, but as of this podcast, the absolute best source is Claire Ryan's blog post outlining the timeline of events. There was lots of national news coverage, but the "come on girls" comment was on NPR.
The 2019 RITA ceremony was amazing, and one that celebrated the history of romance. In between when we recorded this episode and when it was released, RWA cancelled the 2020 RITA awards. When Sarah said "it was a check the organization couldn't cash" she's alluding to a less well-known section of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech.
"La Nora" is how many people refer to Nora Roberts. Sarah mentions some of her earliest category romances, including Gabriel's Angel, an early Nora from the Silhouette Intimate Moments line. She's also read Naked In Death (Jen hasn't), but Jen loved The Brides quartet, which was probably the last Nora Roberts series she read.
Sarah said she feels like readers should at least have read ten percent of an author's backlist for full romance competency. Should the "Ten Percent Rule" be a plank of the official Fated Mates Romance Reader platform? Discuss.
When we talk about Nora Roberts, we used a lot of superhero language: her origin story; her vanquishing of a villanous and duplicitous plaigiarist--twice!; owning her own town; her complete dominance of the bestseller lists. None of it is hyperbole. It's possible she actually is a superhero.
Lots of authors made statements about the RWA situaton. Here is Nora's, and then JR Ward's.
Virginity in romance has come a long way. PS. Virginity is a construct.
Somewhere in the 43 minute mark, Jen says "ope," which is the most Midwestern of sayings. If the twitter account Midwest vs. Everybody doesn't make you laugh so hard you wheeze, you're probably part of the everybody.
Jen isn't the only one who thinks smoking is a short cut for villainy. She thinks The X-Files is to blame. Also, PSA: vaping is really bad for you, too.
Birth control in romance has changed so much, listen to our episode on bodily autonomy for more discussion of this topic.
What does it mean to do something in a fugue state?
Sarah's big thread about why authors shouldn't be afraid of the problematic content in their old romances.
If you're interested in a big interesting book about The Troubles, Jen recommends Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe.
What's a moor anyways?
So you wanted to know what it was like to fly the Concorde?
Buying a car? Sounds like that other Grey. Too bad this Gray was a Confederate apologist. Saying the Civil War was about "a way of life" instead of slavery is a classic Lost Cause myth. As Courtney Milan says, the devil doesn't need your advocacy.
Buy buttons and stickers from Kelly, tshirt and swag from Jordan, particpate in a 2020 reading challengewith Jen and Sarah, and fill out this survey for Eric.
In two weeks, we'll be discussed Managed and Fall by Kristen Callihan. If you have to pick one, make it Managed. As of this episode airing, Jen has tweeted just the word Scottie with a swooning gif at least 11 times.
Our listener call in book was Star King by Susan Grant.
15: How Is She Even Able To Walk? - The Master
We’re back with The Game Makers Series this week — talking with the wonderful Sophie Jordan about her favorite book in the series, The Master! Starring Maxim Sevastyan and the first-time escort who lays him flat (in all ways), This one has all the insane sex stuff of the last Game Makers book, now with birth control insanity, and a sweet nod to holiday traditions…and a trip into the Internet to look at chastity belts.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, IT IS HAPPENNNINNNGGGGG! We have reached Sweet Ruin, Sarah’s favorite book in the IAD series, and she is BEYOND EXCITED to talk about her favorite Kresley hero and the magnificent, perfect heroine who refuses to back down from their fated matehood. Block off some time, as we can’t guarantee this will be anything near a normal length episode! Read Sweet Ruin at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie. Also, we promise you won’t be disappointed by the audio of this one!
Show Notes
Welcome Sophie Jordan!
You should listen to the Wicked Wallflowers podcast where Sophie talks about her Game Makers Series theory.
The politics of lane-sharing at the pool are more complicated then you'd think!
In case you don't know what pendejo means.
ICYMI: one of our first interstitials was about the escort trope.
I guess we did learn more about what Christian was thinking when she fell over the threshold in that 50 shades sequel, Grey.
Is there really a morning after shot?
The Smart Bitches gave The Master a D! /clutches pearls
If you haven't read Lord of Scoundrels, you should.
I decide who is a Pretty Woman quote. Of course.
The Robin Hood Men in Tights chastity belt, or iron underwear as it's more commonly known.
Sophie's upcoming book is The Duke's Stolen Bride.
You can preorder signed copies of Brazen and the Beast from Word in Brooklyn. You can download Wicked and the Wallflower for $2 all of June.
"That great Kerrigan Byrne Newgate one" is called The Highwayman.
Bitch Planet is an amazing comic.
Sweet Ruin is coming!
5: That Vessel Business: Dark Desires After Dusk
DEMONS ARE HERE! We’re talking Dark Desires After Dusk, starring Cadeon Woede (Prince of the Rage Demonarchy) and Holly, his human fated mate (SPOILER SHE ISN’T HUMAN, WHAT!). This one is the first in what we will end up calling the Demonarchy Duology — and we encourage you to read the next book in the series, Kiss of A Demon King as soon as you can after reading Dark Desires. Each book makes the other better. We’ll cover female rage, sex shaming, fast cars, food, feminism and…maybe a pot joke? Also, Sarah waxes on about horns. A lot.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Kiss of A Demon King — the second in the duology, and the wrap up of the plot of this book. We’ve seen Rydstrom total his McLaren and get abducted by Sabine, who is not only Queen of Illusions but also his Fated Mate. DOUBLE TROUBLE. Cade and Holly are a HUGE part of our episode on Sabine & Rydstrom’s — because we just can’t talk about one of these books alone.
Get ready for the KoaDK read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
A quick primer to the verbs deposed, dethroned, defrocked, and usurped.
Groot the Metallurgist is not a cute dancing tree, but rather the half-brother of Omort the Deathless. This Groot has forged a sword that can kill Omort.
Jen went back to Dark Needs at Night's Edge and here is a screenshot of the scene where both Rydstrom and Cadeon choose their kingdom over their fated mates. Nix was not amused.
Romancing the Stone is a rather amazing 80s adventure movie that stars Kathleen Turner as a romance author who travels to Colombia, where she has to trade a treasure map to free her sister. The sequel is The Jewel of the Nile, but it's not as good.
Freya and Woden are two of the three parents to every valkyrie that is created.
Jen says Holly is "some bullshitty one thing away" from being done with her PhD, but the phrase she was looking for was ABD (All But Dissertation).
A MacGuffin is an object that drives the plot.
Women should not be treated like incubators.
Genetic (or biological) determinism is a problem.
For some reason, even with all the talk of eating and not eating, Jen and Sarah failed to bring up the myth of Persephone. #Fail.
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder isn't always portrayed well in the media. UPDATE: One of our listeners wrote this thoughtful thread on Holly's OCD and you should read it.
The phrase "Heavy is the head that wears the crown" is from Shakespeare.
Lobsters are always about love.
Instagram and Twitter horn talk.
One of our listeners painted an amazing portrait of Nix.
Along with that 50% more blood thing, pregnant bodies are kind of amazing.
Jen did some emergency research to find out about the etymology of sword, gladius (this video! lol), scabbard, and vagina.
A Bugatti Veyron is very sexy, very speedy, and very spendy. One of our listeners noticed that there is no mile marker 775 in Mississippi, but there is something special about Mississippi River mile marker 775.
The Stig read Sarah's book on Top Gear!
Groot and Omort are only one letter away, which maybe means nothing; but playing games with words is fun.
The Venn Diagram of what the author means vs. what English teachers think it means.
Jen loves groveling a lot.
420. I mean, that can't be an accident, right? Updated: On Instagram, follower Ellenino22 pointed out that 420 is "the smallest number divisible by 1-7." Whoa.
Literary Disco is a podcast with lots of great games.
Avon's KissCon will be in Chicago the first weekend of April 2019.
Everyone but Sarah should watch these videos of planes landing in high winds.
Kiss of a Demon King is going to be epic, so get ready.
Lost Limb Count
Legs (2)
Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night) ** Arms (1)**
Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
Eyes (2)
Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk) ** Hands (2)**
Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Horns (1)
- Cadeon files off his own horns in an attempt to win back Holly. She tells him to let them grow back. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
4: A+, Would Risk Haunting: Dark Needs at Night's Edge
Book 4 is here and so are ghosts! We’re talking Dark Needs at Night's Edge, starring Conrad (the most tortured of the Wroth vampire brothers) and Néomi (the ghost trapped in the house where he’s held hostage while he dries out). We’ll cover heroines with agency, menstrual cycles, virgin heroes and the importance of family. Also, Jen is on about the moon again.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Dark Desires After Dusk — the beginning of the Rage-Demonarchy duology, featuring Cadeon Woede, who is forced to choose between familial loyalty and his human (or is she?!) fated mate, brilliant mathematician, Holly.
Get ready for the read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
- Ghosts are a human problem and preoccupation.
- According to the Washington Post, "nearly half of the women who were murdered during the past decade were killed by a current or former intimate partner." Huge content warnings for everything in this article.
- The Flame and the Flower, Shanna, and some of Sarah's thoughts about rape in romance.
- We talk about Id a lot on Fated Mates, and we use it as a shorthand for our most primal, deep-rooted desires.
- "All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" is the famous first line of Anna Karenina. This New York Times article about the many Tolstoy translations is fascinating.
- Kresley Cole isn't the only one to use the menstrual cycle as a symbol; but others wonder why menstruation is almost always absent from fiction.
- A crescent moon (or "sliver moon" as Neomi calls it) is never up at midnight. Literally never.
- Jen rants a lot about first person narration a lot on Twitter, but it's super OTT, so just read this thread about first person narration that was started by Rebekah Weatherspoon.
- Shortly after they recoreded this episode, Jonathan Franzen stanned for third person narration and Jen realized she's just a handmaiden to the patriarchy.
- Jen strongly recommends Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon. She saw Kiese Laymon being interviewed by Lolly Bowean at the Chicago Humanities Festival, and it was amazing.
- All people deserve birth control that's right for them.
- Some romance readers love breaking in the ponies with a virgin hero.
- Arguably, agency is the most important character trait.
- There are 45 cemetaries in New Orleans, 31 are historic, and 5 are listed in the National Register of Historic Places.
- If you're planning to write a sitcom, know the formula.
- In IAD, it's Thrane's Key; it Harry Potter, it's a time turner.
- Get yourself some IAD ringtones.
- Holly Ashwin and Cadeon Woede are up next in Dark Desires After Dusk.
Lost Limb Count
Legs (2)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Arms (1)
Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked) ** Eyes (1)**
Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Hands (1)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
2: The Best Led Zeppelin Song is by Pink Floyd: No Rest for the Wicked
We’re two books in this week, reading No Rest for the Wicked, starring Kaderin the Cold-hearted and Sebastian Wroth, participating in the Talisman Hie…Kresley’s version of The Amazing Race.
Sarah & Jen cover everything from pop-culture in romance novels to the lengths we’ll go for the people we love, and the immense trust required when we fall in love…all while marveling at the way Kresley sets the stage for a series that will subvert tropes and genres again and again.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night — and the witches are coming! WDOAWN is the story of Bowen MacRieve (werewolf) and Mariketa the Awaited (witch)…and the book that really breaks open the wide world of IAD. We’ll be joined by the brilliant Adriana Herrera, and you won’t want to miss it. Get ready for the read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie.
Show Notes
Some fun facts about The Amazing Race.
The Valkyeries in mythology, and maybe you didn't notice that "Val Hall" is a play on Valhalla.
Vampires in pop culture & literature.
Remember your high school English teacher talking about characters who are foils of each other? This is not to be confused with your algebra teacher talking about how to solve quadratic equations.
On Urban Dictionary, I want to kiss the person who defined Frigid it as "An outdated, Victorian term used to describe women who aren't interested in sex. Only used today by drunk men in bars to explain why the woman they attempted to pick up wasn't interested."
A wacky look at some potential real life examples of time travel.
Just out of curiosity, this is what you'll find if you google "Bad Ass Estonian General." IMPRESSIVE.
Sarah's wet noodle joke is part of a long literary tradition where vampires just need a good dose of viagra.
All about beta heros, cinnamon roll heroes, and a link to a lot of talk about the latter from Ana Coqui's November 2018's #RomBkLove.
Sarah mentions "the vampire chained to a bed" and she's talking about Conrad Wroth, the hero of Dark Needs at Night's Edge (book 4).
Just a brief review of birth control, how we use it, and why it is so important to women's rights.
In case you were wondering why Jen talked about "no one ever has to go to the bathroom." It's a thing. Sarah accused Jen of RUINING ROMANCE, but clearly that's not the case because here we are.
More about lightning and planes.
Chicago's Bubbly Creek. That's real. If you ever want to nerd out on this history, Jen recommends a book called Nature's Metropolis. Honestly, you really have no idea how fascinating grain elevators are.
The short and incomplete list of magical items introduced in this book: Kaderin gives the Furies armor that can't be pierced and a battle axe that can kill Lore beings without having to behead them. The New Zealand coven of Valkyeries has a choker that allows the person wearing it to sing a siren's song. No one knows what happend to the armband that makes the wearer feel overwhelming sexual desire. Amphitrite's tear is a bead that will heal any wound. The Blade of Honorius never misses its target. Thrane's Key was the time-traveling prize in this Hie, and at the end of the book, Riora gives Sebastian one to use at his discretion.
Deus Ex Machina is fun to say, but kind of a bummer when that's how an author gets her characters out of a jam.
All the cool vampires from the mid-2000s carry RAZR phones.
Diamonds are a construct, just like virginity.
Sarah is pro-Kardashian.
Bowen & Mariketa are coming up next, but the thing she was excited about at the end of that book actually happened at the end of Dark Needs at Night's Edge.
Swineherds vs. shepherds, and the only time Jen ever felt truly understood on Reddit.
The Battle of Evermore by Led Zeppelin, and if you think Jen wasn't dying to update Genius with this Kresley Cole reference, you don't know her at all. But maybe the video is more your speed.
