S06.45: Our Favorite Episodes, Tropes we Love, and Books that Take the Finger
Jen and Sarah are together at last (again), and we’re taking your questions! Listen as we revisit some of our favorite past episodes of the podcast, as we discuss our favorite books with our least favorite tropes, and recommend a bunch of books that take the finger. We’re also talking about historical romance, and why it remains an absolute bop.
We're coming up on the end of Season 6 (what?! how!?), which means a deep dive of one of Sarah's books, even though she doesn't have a new one this year! We're talking Wicked & the Wallflower, the first of her Bareknuckle Bastards series. Get it at: Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or wherever you get your books.
Show Notes
Jen went to go see Illinoise when she was in New York, and the Fated Mates team ate at Claro in Brooklyn.
Some of our favorite episodes of the podcast: the Derek Craven episode with Kate, the first category romance interstitial, and trailblazers Vincent Virga, Elda Minger, and Nora Roberts.
Our walk up songs are Too Funky by George Michael for Sarah, and Every Day I Write the Book or Town Crier by Elvis Costello.
The Comstock Laws were bad and they are still on the books, which is gonna turn out to be a bad thing.
Alexa Riley also writes as AR Taboo, for the truly dirty stuff. Check your content warnings.
Books Mentioned this Episode
The Sponsors
Blue Box Press, publishers of Audrey Carlan's The Marriage Auction, Season 2, available in print or ebook from Amazon.
Lucy Score, author of The Body in the Backyard: A Riley Thorn Novel, available in print, ebook or audiobook, from Amazon.
Jess K. Hardy, author of Lips Like Sugar, available in print or ebook from Amazon.
Liana De la Rosa, author of Isabel and the Rogue, available in print, ebook or audiobook from Amazon, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or wherever you get your books.
S06.39: Summer 2024 Reads
School’s out for Jen’s summer and Sarah’s in the final stretch so we’re dreaming of romance beach reads and talking about our massive summer TBR piles! There’s something here for everyone — hot librarians, superheroes, heists, funeral homes, wedding planners and baseball players and F1 drivers and, of course, dukes.
Our next read along is Joanna Shupe’s The Devil of Downtown, from her Uptown Girls trilogy. It’s Jen’s favorite in the series. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple or your local indie.
If you love a fire hose of romance recommendations, may we suggest joining our Patreon? Aside from an additional episode every month you get access to our Discord, where 1000 other romance readers are talking about books they love (and many other things!) all the time. It’s so fun! Learn more about the Patreon and go join those cool people who love romance as much as we do at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
Maybe men shouldn’t cover the WNBA, tbh.
All about The electric slide.
You can follow DodoTheBookBitch on Instagram; follow Sarah there to see the scratch-off TBR poster.
Jacque is one our romancelandia faves, and she has a Pride reading challenge for you all. RomanticallyInclined is on Threads reading books with fewer than 100 reviews all through June.
For reviews in advance of publication, your best bet is Kirkus (Jen reviews for them), but you can also try Booklist or Publisher’s Weekly. We also talked about NetGalley and Edelweiss to discover upcoming books.
If you’re in NYC, don’t miss the launch event for Liana de la Rosa’s Isabel and the Rogue next week! She’ll be at The Ripped Bodice with Sarah and Adriana Herrera…and Sophie Jordan will be there, too! Tickets and info here.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Blue Box Press, publishers of Lexi Blake’s My Royal Showmance
available in print, ebook or audiobook from
Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo or wherever you get your books
Lotte R James, author of A Liaison with Her Leading Lady,
available at in print, ebook, or audiobook from
Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or wherever you get your books
Ava Miles, author of A Very Un-Shakespeare Romance,
available at in print or ebook with
your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S06.28: HEA or GTFO
The cornerstone of the genre. The one thing that, when thrown into question, is guaranteed to enrage every corner of Romancelandia. We’re talking about Happily Ever After (HEA). Its promise, its importance, its relevance to us as readers, writers and people in the world. We talk about what really makes it hard won and deserved for us — which means yes, we’re talking about grovels and yes, we’re talking about third act break ups, and yes, we’re talking about patriarchy. Because of course we are. You’ve probably heard us talk about all the books we’re mentioning here…greatest hits are hits for a reason, y’all.
There are some minor audio issues with this one. Sorry, folks! It does get better at about 15 minutes in. There are a handful of tickets left for Fated Mates LIVE in Brooklyn, NY, this Saturday, March 23, at the gorgeous William Vale Hotel! Join us, along with Kate Clayborn, Lauren Billings (one-half of Christina Lauren), Nikki Payne, and a roomful of other romance-obsessed listeners for a night of romance shenanigans at a live taping of Fated Mates! While we’re never sure quite how it’s going to go, we can guarantee there will be books, booze and bantr…and you’ll leave full of joy from all the fun. Get Kate’s The Other Side of Disappearing three days early (and books from everyone else!) from The Ripped Bodice—links, tickets and more info are at fatedmates.net/live.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Our next read along is Heather Guerre’s Preferential Treatment, one of Sarah’s favorite romances of 2022. Get it at Amazon, or with your monthly subsc
Show Notes
Ope! Jen’s mic wasn’t fully connected for the first 10 minutes of the episode, so that’s why it sounds terrible. User error on her part, Eric would never. Hang in there, she figures it out!
Let John Green and the good folks at Crash Course teach you about European History and The Hundred Years’ War.
The 2024 Audie Award winners included The True Love Experiment for best romance.
Three more days until Fated Mates Live… a handful of tickets are left! Join us!
Looking for all kinds of perfect HEA stickers, check out the Romancelandia Shop!
UPDATE: The book Sarah was looking for when she was talking about Enemies to Lovers was Johanna Lindsey’s Prisoner of My Desire. All the content warnings, friends…but if you do wade in, don’t miss our chat with Joanna Shupe where we talk about it from Season 1.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Lorraine Heath, author of In Want of a Viscount,
available in print, ebook and audiobook, wherever books are sold
Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, and your local indie.
and
P. Rayne, author of Moonlit Thorns,
available in print, ebook and audio,
at Amazon, or with your subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Avery Maxwell, author of Falling into Forever,
available in print, ebook and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S05.38: Prologues & Epilogues in Romance
It’s hard to believe it’s taken us this long to do a prologue and epilogue episode! We talk about beginnings and endings and why they exist and why writers should ignore every piece of broad strokes nonsense advice people want to throw at them. Jen says “Prologues are plot and epilogues are character,” and blows Sarah’s mind with her genius (jk, Sarah already knew she was a genius). And yes, we talk about babies. Fair warning!
This interstitial idea came from the Fated Mates Discord, which all of our patrons have access to. Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
You know, Animal Farm is a good book and King Lear is a good play.
There is a very cute family of foxes living in Chicago’s Millennium Park
Apparently this dogs and rosetone thing is a known issue.
Here is an example of the hardline “Prologues are Bad” stance. || ed note: I’m not mad about it, since I have some known hardline stances myself. Ahem. ||
Our list of things good romance prologues do: provide needed backstory, historical information, an inciting incident in the past, an unusual set-up, and showcasing the relationship between the primary characters.
Our list of things romance epilogues do: fan service, bringing the whole gang back together in a series,providing a glimpse into the other character’s POV, The HEA fulfilled, the babylogue, and surprise motherfuckers!
A link to a folder with PDFs of links in show notes.
Books Mentioned this Episode
Sponsors
Adriana Herrera, author of An Island Princess Starts a Scandal,
available now from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo
and your local independent bookseller.
and
Juniper Butterworth, author of Bewitched,
available now from Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
The Noveltea Shelf Assured Book Box,
available at novelteabooks.co
S05.19: Homecoming Romance with Kate Clayborn
Seven-timer Kate Clayborn returns to the Fated Mates studio (lol, jk there is no studio) to talk about about going home again in romance and to celebrate the launch of her new book, Georgie All Along, which you can get this week wherever books are sold! We talk about all the ins and outs of homecoming romances, what sends characters back to the beginning, what readers expect from these books, why they hit so hard and in so many ways, and how this trope intersects with small town romance. All that, and Sarah’s brought an X,Y chart to class.
Next week, we have an interstitial, and then it’s Derek Craven Day 2023! Our first read along of 2023 (in February) is Tracy MacNish’s Stealing Midnight—we’ve heard the calls from our gothic romance readers and we’re delivering with this truly bananas story, in which the hero is dug out of a grave and delivered, barely alive, to the heroine. Get ready. You can find Stealing Midnight (for $1.99!) at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
Welcome Kate Clayborn. Her newest release, Georgie, All Along came out yesterday. She’s been on Fated Mates so many times because we love to talk to her about romance. You can listen to them all here, but considering the time of year, might we recommend the 2021 Derek Craven Day episode?
In case you forgot what your English teacher told you about theme.
Here's Sarah's chart, as promised. Also, you can learn about all about the X and Y axis. And the Z axis. And coefficients. So mathy this week!
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Lillian Lark, author of Deceived by the Gargoyles.
Get it at Amazon, free on Kindle Unlimited,
visit Lillian Lark at lillianlark.com
and
Love’s Sweet Arrow, a romance bookstore in Chicago
Visit lovessweetarrow.com,
and preorder upcoming romance with fun gifts!
S03.50: Unmasked by the Marquess by Cat Sebastian: a Perfect Modern Historical
We’re nearing the end of Season Three and we are so happy to be reading one of the most delightful books in modern historical romance, Cat Sebastian’s Unmasked by the Marquess. We talk about Cat’s masterful plotting within a three-act structure, about friendship, trust and sacrifice in relationships, and about writing a modern historical while still delivering the bananas plots that made the early books in the genre the best.
We also announce our next Fated Mates LIVE! to celebrate the release of Sarah’s next book, BOMBSHELL! Join us and some of our very favorite people on August 24th! Tickets are a copy of the book, and available at five participating romance friendly bookstores. Get them here!
Our next read along is Sarah’s BOMBSHELL! Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org, or signed via Sarah’s local indie, WORD, or one of the participating romance-friendly bookstores hosting the Fated Mates Live/Virtual Bombshell Launch! Orders from WORD or the launch sponsors will come with a Fated Mates Sticker!
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful.
Show Notes
The virtual launch event for Bombshell will be on Tuesday Aug 24 at 7eastern/4 pacific. If you pre-ordered a signed book from Word!, keep an eye out for details for how to join the event.
Unmasked by the Marquess received excellent reviews from Kirkus, Publisher’s Weekly, and the New York Times.
A guide to nonbinary pronouns.
The audiobook of Unmasked by the Marquess is great, and narrated by Joel Leslie.
Cat Sebastian is a fanfiction expert and routinely talks about some of her favorite fics. If you don’t know, the Stucky ship of Cap & Bucky is the most written about ship on Ao3.
“Natural child” was the nice way of saying that a child was born out of wedlock. The mean way, of course, is bastard.
More about the three act structure.
This is a great interview with Cat Sebastian in Jezebel about writing queer characters in historical romance.
Bonus: 99% Invisible Podcast on The Clinch
Monday Surprise! We’re so excited to share an episode of 99% Invisible with Fated Mates listeners — Sarah’s favorite podcast did an episode about romance covers, and interviewed authors, experts, and the artist and legend Max Ginsburg. It was thoughtful and respectful and perfect….and not only because Sarah was on it.
She’s so grateful to the team at 99% Invisible for having her, and we’re so grateful to them for letting us share the episode with all of you. Enjoy!
Show Notes
Sarah was a guest on last week's 99% Invisible podcast called The Clinch. We're huge fans of the podcast, but it's especially because their episode about locks called Perfect Security was the inspiration for Felicity Faircloth in Wicked and the Wallflower.
Although we haven't talk about the cover of Tender is the Storm on Fated Mates, we did discuss another Johanna Lindsey fan favorite, Gentle Rogue.
One of Jen's favorite episodes of 99% Invisible is about flag design, probably because it was very complimentary to the Chicago flag. You can also watch Roman Mars's TED Talk on that here.
Sarah's favorite is obviously Perfect Security, but she also loved this one on water fountains. Fated Statesers might be interested in the Ballot Design and Gerrymandering episodes. And of course, libraries are palaces.
If you're looking for other great reads about romance covers, Kelly Faircloth wrote about clinch covers for Jezebel and it is a must read. And Jen wrote about the art of the Harlequin romance cover for Kirkus.
This episode of 99PI was produced by Katie Mingle and inspired by her mom, Pamela Mingle, who writes historical romances. Try her debut (with that gorgeous clinch!), A False Proposal, or her most recent, Game of Spies.
S03.27: Retellings in Romance Novels with Kate Clayborn
We are joined by the fabulous Kate Clayborn — the first in the Fated Mates five-timer club! — to talk about about retellings in romance and to celebrate the launch of her new book, Love At First, which you can get wherever books are sold. We talk about the difference between retellings and homages, about Shakespeare and mythology and retellings of classic texts versus modern ones. And of course, we fill your TBR.
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you.
Next week, we're back with a read along of Mary Balogh's A Matter of Class, a short historical novel. Get it for only $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or Google Books.
Show Notes
Welcome Kate Clayborn, our first five-timer. She was with us for the Best Friend’s Sibling Interstitial, Kresley’s The Player, the Sickbed Scenes Interstitial, Derek Craven Day 2021, and today’s interstitial on Romance Retellings.
Texas and the rest of America got hit with some espically bad winter weather this February. This is climate change.
Kate released Love at First this week, which is an homage to Romeo and Juliet. Kate’s 2020 book, Love Lettering, is an Overdrive read. Get it today with no wait!
Dr. Jill Biden loves Valentine’s Day.
JK Rowling is a problem, and it’s changed the way many Harry Potter fans think about her books.
Yes, yes, the English Teacher memes are so funny. Well take that.
Tl;dr: archetypes are about character,while retellings are about plot.
In Where Dreams Begin, Zachary Bronson is a hero that follows the Beast archetype, and Jen saw it in the scene where Holly first enters his house.
Story can be a safe way to explore terrifying ideas about society and people. For example, both La Llorona and Medea are about mothers who kill their children, but have a kind of distance that the story of Andrea Yates does not.
Dr. Jennifer Lynn Barnes writes about storytelling and the universal ID.
Maybe you don't know about the story of Salman Rushdie and the fatwa against him for his novel The Satanic Verses.
Our next read along episode will be A Matter of Class by Mary Balogh.
Music
Retellings from Literature
Retellings of Fairy Tales
Retellings from Pop Culture
S02.19: So You Want to Read a Historical
We’re launching a Special Romance Report here at Fated Mates — a series of interstitials introducing readers to the subgenres of Romance (there are seven!) — we’re talking about why they exist, what they’re trying to do, what to expect from them, what might have readers hesitating, and where to start! This week, we’re starting with Sarah’s favorite subgenre — Historicals! We’re talking about why they’re sexy, progressive, feminist, and very not boring.
Don’t miss a single moment of our 2020 episodes — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast if you’re so inclined!
Next week, we’re talking Kristen Callihan’s Managed, which you may recognize as “SCOTTIE,” which is how Jen refers to it because she loves him so much. We think you’ll love it, too, and if you have time, read the next in the series, Fall, which is one of Sarah’s top 10 romances ever. Read Managed at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
RWA imploded and it's such a long, complicated story, but this article from Vox and this timeline by Claire Ryan are what will catch you up.
Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start: there are seven romance subgenres: historical, contemporary, romantic suspense, paranormal, inspirational, erotic romance, and YA.
When it comes to the grandmother of historicals, don't forget that Jane Austen was writing contemporaries.
Johanna Lindsey died in October, and her family announced it publicly in December. The New York Times obituary was trash, so read the Washington Post or Entertainment Weekly one instead. Check out the Twitter hastag #MyFirstJohanna for people's stories about their first book by Lindsey (including Sarah's), and maybe listen to our episode on Gentle Rogue.
Support Farrah Rochon for an organ in her sister's memory. And come this summer, buy her upcoming book The Boyfriend Project.
In Born a Crime, Trevor Noah wrote about what his mother said about her second husband wanting to put her in a cage: For a long time I wondered why he ever married a woman like my mom in the first place, as she was the opposite of that in every way. If he wanted a woman to bow to him, there were plenty of girls back in Tzaneen being raised solely for that purpose. The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He’s attracted to independent women. “He’s like an exotic bird collector,” she said. “He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage.”
Mary Wollstonecraft is all the evidence you need that feminists have been around for a long time.
Jen recommends In the Dream House by Carmen Marie Machado, which is about domestic abuse in a queer relationship. The quote from Jose Estaban Munoz is, "When the historian of queer experience attempts to document a queer past, there is often a gatekeeper representing a straight present."
When talking about The Doctor's Discretion by EE Ottoman, Sarah is very excited about a book called The Butchering Art by medical historian Dr. Lindsey Fitzharris, whose sometimes very gross Instagram is amazing. Doctor James Berry was trans man who lived and worked in London in the mid 1800s.
If you haven't listened to our episode about Beverly Jenkins's Indigo what are you waiting for?
Avon Red was a short-lived series, but then again, so was The Red Shoe Diaries. Sarah recommends On These Silken Sheets by Sabrina Darby from that series.
Whores of Yore is a great blog, and definitely proves Jen's assertion that as soon as someone invented cameras, someone else wanted to get naked in front of it. Dr. Kate Lister, who founded the site, has a book called A Curious History of Sex coming out Feb 2020.
Next time you are in New York, visit The Museum of Sex. Sarah recommends Hallie Rubenhold's The Covent Garden Ladies: Pimp General Jack and the Extraordinary Story of Harris' List (which out of print, but available in audio, and is the book Harlots is based on). Hallie Rubenhold's The Five is not out of print, and also excellent--it is very not a romance, and about the victims of the Ripper killings.
KJ Charles is so ridiculously good. Sarah's favorites are Wanted a Gentleman and Think of England and Jen loves Band Sinister. Nicola Davidson's Surrey Sexual Freedom Society series is fantastic. Alyssa Cole's An Extraordinary Union is amazing. Monica McCarty wrote a historical series that imagines Highlanders as being kind of like Navy SEALs. Sarah talked about one of the books in the series, The Arrow on the Scotland interstitial. Honestly, we talked about so many authors, so just click on any one of the images in the photo gallery below for some of our favorites by those authors.
But stickers and buttons from Kelly, tees and bags from Jordandene, take our reading challenge, and answer our survey.
romances we mentioned
nonfiction we mentioned
