S06.40: Siblings in Romance Novels
We’re talking about brothers and sisters as secondary characters in romance today — by popular demand from listeners, it’s our sibling episode! We get to the bottom of why we all love secondary siblings—the overbearing olders, the wild child middles, the delightful youngers, the equally handsome and broad shouldered boys, the snarky, stunning girls, and everyone else who’s ever caught our eye and made us say “now where’s there book?!” We tackled complicated relationships, shared history and the perfect fantasy of family that romance delivers so well.
Next week, we’re reading Joanna Shupe’s The Devil of Downtown, from her Uptown Girls trilogy. There are sisters! Also, it’s Jen’s favorite in the series and an absolute banger. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple or your local indie.
If you wish you had six more days in a week of people talking about romance, may we suggest joining our Patreon? Aside from an additional episode every month you get access to our Discord, where 1000 other romance readers are talking about books they love (and many other things!) all the time. It’s so fun! Learn more about the Patreon and go join those cool people who love romance as much as we do at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
We’ve done twins, and we’ve done siblings’s best friend, but this time we’re talking about plain old siblings in romance. We’re definitely not talking about anything Tangled Lies adjacent this time.
If you want the deep dives we mentioned, they are Preferential Treatment, Gentle Rogue and Devil’s Bride.
Illinoise is playing on Broadway if you’re in New York this summer.
They’ll be a meet-up at Steamy Lit Con for us with our listeners, details coming soon!
There’s a dark romance podcast called Trigger Warning you might want to check out, and in case you want to read that romance with mummification but no cheating, it’s Dead Love by Audrey Rush
The Orphan X book with the evil killer siblings is Prodigal Son.
In case you have ever wondered about the provenance of the beloved Fated Mates phrase, “take the finger” this is an episode where Sarah talks about the book that inspired it.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Frederick Smith, author of One and Done,
available at in print or ebook from
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or wherever you get your books
Aethon Press, publishers of SK Horton’s The Concealed,
available in print, ebook or audiobook, or with
your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
Avon Books, publishers of Alexandria Bellefleur’s Truly, Madly, Deeply,
available at in print, ebook, or audiobook from
Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or wherever you get your books
06.32: Secret Babies, Friends-to-Lovers and More — Books we love with tropes we don’t
This is the first of three episodes inspired by the incredible time we had at Fated Mates Live in Brooklyn. During the event (which was so so fun we love every single one of you who came!), we asked guests Nikki Payne, Kate Clayborn and Lauren Billings of Christina Lauren to choose an interstitial topic they would like us to tackle on the show. Lauren chose a great one: Exceptions to our rules, meaning…tropes we don’t care for that are done really really well.
So! This one is for everyone who’s ever asked Jen for Secret Baby or Virgin Heroes and anyone who’s ever asked Sarah for Friends to Lovers or Spies. We talk about the books that make us go…not that…but maybe that?
We also want to thank the following publishers and authors for their incredible generosity in making sure that almost every attendee of the Live went home with a romance novel. We are so lucky to share Romancelandia with you: Avon Books, Ballantine Books, Blue Box Press, Dell, Grand Central/Forever, Gallery Books, Lauren Blakely, LJ Evans, Pippa Grant, Ana Huang, Parker S. Huntington & LJ Shen, Elle Kennedy, Avery Maxwell, Ava Miles, Max Monroe, Kathryn Nolan, Amari Nylix, Meghan Quinn, Piper Rayne, P Rayne, Stephanie Rose, Lucy Score, & TL Swan.
Photo credits: Stephanie Keith
Show Notes
We had the very best time at Fated Mates Live, and it wouldn’t have been nearly as fun without Lauren being there. Christina Lauren’s newest book, The Paradise Problem, is out May 14th. Preorder it now, and check out their tour schedule to go see them (they’re even more terrific in person) when they’re near you!
Solar eclipses are very cool, and Jen really should have gone home…. as it turns out, 95% is not anything like 100%! If you have the chance, you should go get in that path of totality. Jen’s brother Erik was at his office rooftop in downtown Cleveland and saw people getting married, and also took a very cool video at totality. New York earthquake twitter was pretty funny, too.
Jen, staunchly anti- virgin heroes since 2018.
Kevin Costner’s speech about luck from Bull Durham.
The book about women in the CIA is called The Sisterhood: The Secret History of Women at the CIA by Liza Mundy.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Pippa Grant, author of Until It Was Love,
available in special edition hardcover, paperback, audiobook, ebook or
with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Charis Michaels, author of Say Yes to the Princess,
available at Amazon, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or
your local independent bookstore
and
Adriana Herrera, author of The Bootlegger’s Bounty,
available in print or ebook, or
with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S05.07: Spooky Stuff! Halloween Romance
It’s spooky season and that means we’re reading spooky stuff! We recommend some of our favorite recent witches and demons and incubii and ghosts and vampires and others…and then we try to get to the bottom of why paranormal romance and monster romance doesn’t feel like halloween romance to but these books do? This episode has it all: celebrity witch talk, a welshman named Rhys who isn’t the one you’re thinking of, a peek into Sarah’s past that reveals a painting that just might have installed one of her buttons…she had a beer before we recorded, so stuff happens! This one’s all treat, no trick…but headphones in, y’all. This one isn’t for the kids.
Thanks to Terri Green, author of The Swordmaster’s Daughter and Alyxandra Harvey, author of How to Marry a Viscount, for sponsoring the episode.
Our next read along is Claire Kent’s HOLD. It’s a prison planet romance, so…you know…enter at your own risk. Get it at Amazon or in Kindle Unlimited.
Show Notes
Spooky Shit Nitro Stout isn’t a brand, it’s a process.
Although we’ve never done a Halloween episode before, we did have a monster romance interstitial in season 4 with guest Jenny Nordbak. Also, all of season 1, basically.
We came up with a new rule for what makes something a paranormal, which is it’s about whether or not the main characters are immortals or humans. Or, you know, the patriarchy.
And now time for a celebrity gossip interlude: Are Gisele Bündchen & Olivia Wilde witches? It's possible. It has something to do with altars & healing stones, [the Don’t Worry Darling controversy], Jason Sudeikis under a car, and Nora Ephron’s salad dressing.
We have two more Fated States phonebanks! Register here for Oct 29 at 3 eastern to Kentucky for Charles Booker, and Nov 5 at 3 eastern to Pennsylvania for John Fetterman.
Did someone mention a Welshman named Rhys?
Gather round and look at the painting The Nightmare by Henry Fuseli. Here’s a cool explainer about the significance of the painting.
As of Oct 25, 2022, the United States has 1,090, 632 dead from Covid. Worldwide, at least 7.5M people have died. Get boosted. Wear a mask.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
This week’s episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by:
Alyxandra Harvey, author of How to Marry a Viscount,
available at Amazon.
Visit alyxandraharvey.com
and
Terri Green, author of The Swordmaster’s Daughter,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books
Visit terrigreenauthor.com
S03.31: Morality Chain Romance
We’re so thrilled to be talking morality chain romance! We’ve owed this episode to Katee Robert for nearly a year, and we have no excuses for how long this has taken, except that time in 2020 was a flat circle. Here, we get down to business—we tackle the definition of Morality Chain, and how it differs from Dark Romance, how it connects with mafia, criminals, pirates, highwaymen, and the original Alpha.
Check all your Content Warnings before you begin with these books!
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you. We hope you’re reading the best books this week.
Next week, we’re reading Alexis Daria’s You Had Me At Hola, one of our Best Books of 2020! Find it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
One very important note: we highly recommend doing a thorough search for content warnings for all the books and movies we mention this week.
We love Katee Robert, who we had on as a guest for the menage interstitial. Katee bid on this item at Kennedy Ryan’s Lift 4 Autism auction. It happens every spring, so keep an eye on this page for the 2021 auction if you’d like to pick the topic for a future interstitial.
This week, Katee released Seducing My Guardian, the 4th book in her SUPER HOT Touch of Taboo series. If you'd like to read a morality chain romance written by Katee, we recommend The Bastard's Bargain.
“In springtime, the only pretty ring time” is from Shakespeare’s As You Like It. It's also possible Sarah knows it from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. She would like you to believe that it's from the former, but we'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. Either way, “If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it,” is from Beyonce.
As it turns out, Chicago is a great town for beach volleyball.
It’s hard not to talk about morality chain & dark romance together, but we think they are inverse tropes. The internet definition of Morality Chain is “is a character who is the reason another character is Good.” Jen and Sarah’s current definition is that in morality chain romance, the Love Interest pulls a hero towards humanity and goodness, while in dark romance, the love interest is pulled down into the hero’s lawless world.
Some examples in pop culture are Spike from Buffy and maybe Barney in How I Met Your Motherr. Also, check out a movie called The Professional, where a child (played by Natalie Portman!) befriends the assassin next door. The Jason Statham one with a kid is called Safe.
The Hero’s Journey is very common character archetype in literature and pop culture, but Sarah and Jen are both very taken with Gail Carriger’s description of the alternative archetype, The Heroine’s Journey.
If you want more about morality chain, so many of Kresley’s books from The Immortals After Dark series will work, so please listen to season one! Our favorites are Dark Needs at Night’s Edge, Lothaire, and Sweet Ruin.
We were divided on whether the character has to be a danger to others in order to qualitfy as morality chain. In the Gamemaker series: The Professional is about an assassin who is a danger to others, while in The Player he’s only a danger to himself.
Jen Porter wrote a long thread about what she thinks of as PEA, or problematic ever after, romance.
Mickey is "kind of a Fagin-y" as a character, but without the antisemitism. In interesting historical facts, Dickens rewrote Oliver Twist later in life to remove all anti-Semitic characteristics from Fagin, after he'd been criticized for the portrayal of the character. Of course, it's not that simple. Read more about it from Deborah Epstein Nord.
Scottie is the main character of Managed, and is classified more as grumpy one/sunshine one, which we argue is just morality chain dialed down.
More about how most writers have a “core story."
Next week, we'll be reading You Had me at Hola by Alexis Daria
MUSIC: Cardi B - Money
S02.31: Forced Proximity romances with Christina Lauren
This week, we’ve got two tremendous guests and we’re coming to you from four different time zones! Coronavirus silver lining — time has literally no meaning any longer. We’re talking to the brilliant duo Christina Lauren about their new book, The Honey Don’t List, and forced proximity romances — which are a crowd favorite…or at least were a crowd favorite until we were all forced into forced proximity!
Next week, we’re reading Victoria Dahl’s Taking the Heat. We know it’s tough to get it in print, but find it in e at your local library or at: Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or in print, mailed from your local indie (which is probably still shipping!)
We hope you’re staying safe!
Show Notes
Welcome Christina Lauren! Check out their new release, a forced proximity romance called The Honey Don't List. Perhpas, like Sarah, you need to understand the "honey do" list.
If you're worried about zombies running, there's an app for that.
Christina and Lauren said their cover reminds them of Lizzo's big inflatable butt at the 2019 AMAs.
Jen wrote a Kirkus column about why "only one bed" is one of the most delightful subsets of the "forced proximity" trope.
Amanda Diehl reviews for BookPage and also for Smart Bitches Trashy Books. Here is her inteview with Christina Lauren.
Sarah mentioned the great New York City Blackout of 2003, but it turns out a field in Ohio caused the problem.
"He is poison to everyone but her" is of course a reference back to Sarah's favorite IAD book, Sweet Ruin.
All about wheelwrights.
Wondering what it's really like for scientists on Antarctica is no place you'd want to be trapped, and certainly no place for a danger bang.
Outbreak and Contagion are the top movies on Netflix right now.
You can order The Honey Don't List with signed bookplates from Books a Million, not sure directly how to order from the one in Hunstville, AL, but try calling the store. Check out the audiobook of the Honey Don't List, starring Patti Murin and Jon Root.
While you're whiling away the hours in self-isolation, don't forget to check out our Spotify playlist, which includes the full versions of every song we've ever used on Fated Mates -- or head over and watch all the music videos of all those songs on our site!
4: A+, Would Risk Haunting: Dark Needs at Night's Edge
Book 4 is here and so are ghosts! We’re talking Dark Needs at Night's Edge, starring Conrad (the most tortured of the Wroth vampire brothers) and Néomi (the ghost trapped in the house where he’s held hostage while he dries out). We’ll cover heroines with agency, menstrual cycles, virgin heroes and the importance of family. Also, Jen is on about the moon again.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Dark Desires After Dusk — the beginning of the Rage-Demonarchy duology, featuring Cadeon Woede, who is forced to choose between familial loyalty and his human (or is she?!) fated mate, brilliant mathematician, Holly.
Get ready for the read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
- Ghosts are a human problem and preoccupation.
- According to the Washington Post, "nearly half of the women who were murdered during the past decade were killed by a current or former intimate partner." Huge content warnings for everything in this article.
- The Flame and the Flower, Shanna, and some of Sarah's thoughts about rape in romance.
- We talk about Id a lot on Fated Mates, and we use it as a shorthand for our most primal, deep-rooted desires.
- "All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" is the famous first line of Anna Karenina. This New York Times article about the many Tolstoy translations is fascinating.
- Kresley Cole isn't the only one to use the menstrual cycle as a symbol; but others wonder why menstruation is almost always absent from fiction.
- A crescent moon (or "sliver moon" as Neomi calls it) is never up at midnight. Literally never.
- Jen rants a lot about first person narration a lot on Twitter, but it's super OTT, so just read this thread about first person narration that was started by Rebekah Weatherspoon.
- Shortly after they recoreded this episode, Jonathan Franzen stanned for third person narration and Jen realized she's just a handmaiden to the patriarchy.
- Jen strongly recommends Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon. She saw Kiese Laymon being interviewed by Lolly Bowean at the Chicago Humanities Festival, and it was amazing.
- All people deserve birth control that's right for them.
- Some romance readers love breaking in the ponies with a virgin hero.
- Arguably, agency is the most important character trait.
- There are 45 cemetaries in New Orleans, 31 are historic, and 5 are listed in the National Register of Historic Places.
- If you're planning to write a sitcom, know the formula.
- In IAD, it's Thrane's Key; it Harry Potter, it's a time turner.
- Get yourself some IAD ringtones.
- Holly Ashwin and Cadeon Woede are up next in Dark Desires After Dusk.
Lost Limb Count
Legs (2)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Arms (1)
Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked) ** Eyes (1)**
Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Hands (1)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)