S02.19: So You Want to Read a Historical

We’re launching a Special Romance Report here at Fated Mates — a series of interstitials introducing readers to the subgenres of Romance (there are seven!) — we’re talking about why they exist, what they’re trying to do, what to expect from them, what might have readers hesitating, and where to start! This week, we’re starting with Sarah’s favorite subgenre — Historicals! We’re talking about why they’re sexy, progressive, feminist, and very not boring.

Don’t miss a single moment of our 2020 episodes — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast if you’re so inclined!

Next week, we’re talking Kristen Callihan’s Managed, which you may recognize as “SCOTTIE,” which is how Jen refers to it because she loves him so much. We think you’ll love it, too, and if you have time, read the next in the series, Fall, which is one of Sarah’s top 10 romances ever. Read Managed at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.


Show Notes

  • RWA imploded and it's such a long, complicated story, but this article from Vox and this timeline by Claire Ryan are what will catch you up.

  • Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start: there are seven romance subgenres: historical, contemporary, romantic suspense, paranormal, inspirational, erotic romance, and YA.

  • When it comes to the grandmother of historicals, don't forget that Jane Austen was writing contemporaries.

  • Johanna Lindsey died in October, and her family announced it publicly in December. The New York Times obituary was trash, so read the Washington Post or Entertainment Weekly one instead. Check out the Twitter hastag #MyFirstJohanna for people's stories about their first book by Lindsey (including Sarah's), and maybe listen to our episode on Gentle Rogue.

  • Support Farrah Rochon for an organ in her sister's memory. And come this summer, buy her upcoming book The Boyfriend Project.

  • In Born a Crime, Trevor Noah wrote about what his mother said about her second husband wanting to put her in a cage: For a long time I wondered why he ever married a woman like my mom in the first place, as she was the opposite of that in every way. If he wanted a woman to bow to him, there were plenty of girls back in Tzaneen being raised solely for that purpose. The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He’s attracted to independent women. “He’s like an exotic bird collector,” she said. “He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage.”

  • Mary Wollstonecraft is all the evidence you need that feminists have been around for a long time.

  • Jen recommends In the Dream House by Carmen Marie Machado, which is about domestic abuse in a queer relationship. The quote from Jose Estaban Munoz is, "When the historian of queer experience attempts to document a queer past, there is often a gatekeeper representing a straight present."

  • When talking about The Doctor's Discretion by EE Ottoman, Sarah is very excited about a book called The Butchering Art by medical historian Dr. Lindsey Fitzharris, whose sometimes very gross Instagram is amazing. Doctor James Berry was trans man who lived and worked in London in the mid 1800s.

  • If you haven't listened to our episode about Beverly Jenkins's Indigo what are you waiting for?

  • Avon Red was a short-lived series, but then again, so was The Red Shoe Diaries. Sarah recommends On These Silken Sheets by Sabrina Darby from that series.

  • Whores of Yore is a great blog, and definitely proves Jen's assertion that as soon as someone invented cameras, someone else wanted to get naked in front of it. Dr. Kate Lister, who founded the site, has a book called A Curious History of Sex coming out Feb 2020.

  • Next time you are in New York, visit The Museum of Sex. Sarah recommends Hallie Rubenhold's The Covent Garden Ladies: Pimp General Jack and the Extraordinary Story of Harris' List (which out of print, but available in audio, and is the book Harlots is based on). Hallie Rubenhold's The Five is not out of print, and also excellent--it is very not a romance, and about the victims of the Ripper killings.

  • KJ Charles is so ridiculously good. Sarah's favorites are Wanted a Gentleman and Think of England and Jen loves Band Sinister. Nicola Davidson's Surrey Sexual Freedom Society series is fantastic. Alyssa Cole's An Extraordinary Union is amazing. Monica McCarty wrote a historical series that imagines Highlanders as being kind of like Navy SEALs. Sarah talked about one of the books in the series, The Arrow on the Scotland interstitial. Honestly, we talked about so many authors, so just click on any one of the images in the photo gallery below for some of our favorites by those authors.

  • But stickers and buttons from Kelly, tees and bags from Jordandene, take our reading challenge, and answer our survey.

romances we mentioned

nonfiction we mentioned

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S02.14: Indigo: Ride the Beverly Jenkins Train

Get ready for Hester, one of Sarah’s favorite heroines of all time — and Beverly Jenkins’s Indigo, which Jen just read for the first time! We’re talking historical romance, the way romances feel important, sex and intimacy, and all the reasons why everyone should read Beverly Jenkins right now.

Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review!

Next week, it’s the second half of our book recommendation, stump Sarah & Jen AMA. The following week we’ll release a tiny little stocking stuffer for our Christmas Day episode, but we’re back in business on January 1, with the seasonally appropriate (at least in title) Born in Ice, by none other than the queen herself, Nora Roberts. Read Born in Ice at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.


Show Notes

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S02.12: Lord of Scoundrels: Reel or be Reeled

It may be Thanksgiving week in the US, but that didn’t stop us from recording a monster episode about one of our (and all of Romance’s) favorite books of all time! It’s Lord of Scoundrels week! We’re talking gloves and fans and prologues and why Jessica is one of the best heroines of all time! All that, and Sarah is on a rant about Byron…so don’t miss it!

Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review!

In two weeks, we’re moving across the pond to Beverly Jenkins’s Indigo, with one of Sarah’s favorite heroines ever—Hester Wyatt, Underground Railroad conductor! Read Indigo at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.

Show Notes

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S02.05: James Malory Gets Bangs: Gentle Rogue

Sarah picked this week’s read without having read it recently, and she shockingly doesn’t regret it! We’re talking Johanna Lindsey’s Gentle Rogue—arguably one of the most beloved texts of the genre, complete with a reformed pirate and a heroine who is having absolutely none of his nonsense. We’ll talk about heroines who are sex positive, about obvious references to the slave trade that are problematic and somehow utterly glossed over, archetypal brothers, and about the shocking lack of plot in this book (which we don’t mind a bit).

Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review!

In two weeks, we’re going back to paranormal with the first book in JR Ward’s Black Dagger Brotherhood series, Dark Lover. It’s a whole ride. Strap in. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie (it’s currently only $2.99 in ebook!).


Show Notes

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18: We Got to the Bag of Severed Heads! Shadow's Claim and Shadow's Seduction

We’re taking a turn into the world of the Dacians, and Jen and Sarah are having STRIFE because, as usual, Jen is wrong. We’re combining Shadow’s Claim and Shadow’s Seduction — talking about what it means to be a Kresley heroine, why writers tackle spin off series, the challenges of straight writers writing queer stories, and why we would appreciate receiving the heads of our enemies as tributes.

Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review. 

We’re getting down to the wire with Season One of Fated Mates — in two weeks, join us for Wicked Abyss, featuring the literal King of Hell, and the Queen who takes fully no shit from him. Get Wicked Abyss at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or at your local indie!

Show Notes


Lost Limb Count

Arms and Hands (8)

  1. Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
  2. Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
  3. Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
  4. Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
  5. In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
  6. Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
  7. After receiving Lothaire's heart in a box, Ellie cuts off her middle finger and sends it to him. (Lothaire)
  8. Chloe's shoulder is dislocated in the escape from her auction (MacRieve).

Chest and Torso (7)

  1. Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
  2. Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
  3. On Torture Island, Regin,
  4. MacRieve,
  5. and Brandr are vivisected. It's pretty terrible. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
  6. Declan's skin is peeled off by the Neoptera as a child. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
  7. Lothaire rips out his own heart and sends it to Ellie in a box. (Lothaire)

Head, Face, and Eyes (6)

  1. Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)

  2. Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)

  3. During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)

  4. Lothaire kicks out La Dorada's remaining eye and throws her over a cliff. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)

  5. In the Bloodroot Forest, the tree grows over Lothaire's lips and tongue. (Lothaire)

  6. After she gains her immortality, Chloe's hair grows, but she cuts it off every morning. (MacRieve)

  7. Lanthe agrees to have her tongue cut out to save herself and Thronos, knowing she can still use the power of persuasion telepathically. (Dark Skye) ** Horns (2)**

  8. Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)

  9. Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark)

Legs and Feet (3)

  1. Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
  2. Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
  3. Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
  4. While in Pandamonia, Thronos is trapped in a Groundhog Day like trap, doomed to repeat his worst nightmare over and over again. When he believes that Lanthe is about to die, he repeatedly tears of his legs in order to reach her. He never actually loses a limb, but he was willing, so we're counting it. (Dark Skye)

Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (4)

  1. The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
  2. Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. Garreth promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
  3. Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
  4. Declan fights and beheads several creatures as they escape Torture Island, including squeezing one dude so hard his eyes pop out and then he twists his head off. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
  5. Thronos beheads several foes during fights, which impresses Lanthe; but he also beheads Felix, a sorcerer who once tricked Lanthe and stole her sorcery. (Dark Skye)
  6. The bag of heads, yo. This is the pinnicle of this category, obviously. (Shadow's Claim)

** Beheading as a Non-Romantic Gesture**

  1. Ellie cuts off Lothaire's head, leaving a slender 1/8 of an inch left. It was kind of an accident, but he deserved it. (Lothaire)

Maybe?

  1. Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
  2. When Soroya inhabited Ellie's body, she subjected her to a full Brazilian wax. Ellie doesn't realize it's happened until she takes control of her body again. (Lothaire)
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4: A+, Would Risk Haunting: Dark Needs at Night's Edge

Book 4 is here and so are ghosts! We’re talking Dark Needs at Night's Edge, starring Conrad (the most tortured of the Wroth vampire brothers) and Néomi (the ghost trapped in the house where he’s held hostage while he dries out). We’ll cover heroines with agency, menstrual cycles, virgin heroes and the importance of family. Also, Jen is on about the moon again.   

Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review. 

Our next read (in two weeks) will be Dark Desires After Dusk — the beginning of the Rage-Demonarchy duology, featuring Cadeon Woede, who is forced to choose between familial loyalty and his human (or is she?!) fated mate, brilliant mathematician, Holly.

Get ready for the read along at AmazonBarnes & NobleApple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!

Show Notes

- Ghosts are a human problem and preoccupation.

- According to the Washington Post, "nearly half of the women who were murdered during the past decade were killed by a current or former intimate partner." Huge content warnings for everything in this article.

- The Flame and the Flower, Shanna, and some of Sarah's thoughts about rape in romance.

- We talk about Id a lot on Fated Mates, and we use it as a shorthand for our most primal, deep-rooted desires.

- "All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" is the famous first line of Anna Karenina. This New York Times article about the many Tolstoy translations is fascinating.

- Kresley Cole isn't the only one to use the menstrual cycle as a symbol; but others wonder why menstruation is almost always absent from fiction.

- A crescent moon (or "sliver moon" as Neomi calls it) is never up at midnight. Literally never.

- Jen rants a lot about first person narration a lot on Twitter, but it's super OTT, so just read this thread about first person narration that was started by Rebekah Weatherspoon.

- Shortly after they recoreded this episode, Jonathan Franzen stanned for third person narration and Jen realized she's just a handmaiden to the patriarchy.

- Jen strongly recommends Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon. She saw Kiese Laymon being interviewed by Lolly Bowean at the Chicago Humanities Festival, and it was amazing.

- All people deserve birth control that's right for them.

- Some romance readers love breaking in the ponies with a virgin hero.

- Arguably, agency is the most important character trait.

- There are 45 cemetaries in New Orleans, 31 are historic, and 5 are listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

- If you're planning to write a sitcom, know the formula.

- In IAD, it's Thrane's Key; it Harry Potter, it's a time turner.

- Get yourself some IAD ringtones.

- Holly Ashwin and Cadeon Woede are up next in Dark Desires After Dusk.


Lost Limb Count

Legs (2)

  1. Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
  2. Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)

Arms (1)

  1. Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked) ** Eyes (1)**

  2. Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)

Hands (1)

  1. Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
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