S05.43: Twilight by Stephenie Meyer with Christina and Lauren
We go back to the OG DNA of the contemporary boom of the early 2010s today, with a read along of Stephenie Meyer’s Twilight, with fabulous fan fic writers turned brilliant romance novelists, Christina Lauren. Christina and Lauren talk about the way the books inspired them to write, helped them find a community, and their fated mates (each other). Jen talks about reading Twilight as a middle school teacher, and Sarah talks about never reading it at all…until now.
Within, we’ll talk about characters feeling big feelings, about how Twilight inspired romance novelists across the board, about third acts that go hard, and about how Alice is unquestionably the best character in the whole thing.
Get Christina and Lauren’s most recent book, The True Love Experiment, wherever books are sold, and this week from Bookshop.org, where you get free shipping and help your local independent bookstore.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, you are welcome at our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Welcome back Christina and Lauren! After listening to them talk about Twilight, don’t forget to pick up their latest book, The True Love Experiment. We’ve had Christina and Lauren on a bunch of times to talk about FanFic, The Soulmate Equation, and the forced proximity trope.
Not sure of the exact article that Lo read about brain scans and married couples, but this seems like a good overview.
And a selection of some of our favorite articles about Twilight:
From The Atlantic: At Its Core, the ‘Twilight’ Saga Is a Story About
From Entertainment Weekly: The Twilight Effect
From The New York Times: Love and Pain and the Teenage Vampire Thing
From Slate: All 349 “Murmurs” in the Twilight Saga, Charted and Ranked
From Salon: Meet the Twilight Dildo Inventor
From Vogue: 56 Thoughts I had While Rewatching Twilight
From Vulture: The Most Horrific Twilight Character Backstories, Ranked by Absurdity and a video about The Rise and Fall of the Vampire Romance Craze in Film and TV.
A Google Folder with PDFs of this week's articles.
The Twilight Series
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S03.42: Fantasy Romance Interstitial with Zoraida Córdova
This week, Zoraida Córdova (aka Zoey Castile) joins us to talk about fantasy romance and why it is so hard to find it in the romance pool. We talk about speculative fiction, high fantasy, low fantasy, urban fantasy, contemporary fantasy, paranormal romance and more, all while trying to figure out just what makes something fantasy and not paranormal (we think we’ve cracked the code). We also talk world building, about maps, and about merman junk.
Our next read along is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org! Get the others in the series, too, while you’re at it, because you’ll probably want to read the whole thing.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Zoraida Córdova! Zoraida writes MG, YA, and adult speculative fiction, and also romance under the name Zoey Castile.
Puerto Rico is a US territory and residents of the island are American citizens.
Why Moscow Mules are served in copper mugs.
We love Norma Perez-Hernandez who is an amazing, exuberant editor at Kensington, and if you don’t follow her on Twitter she should. Norma also was on the 2020 Publisher's Weekly Star Watch List.
Zoraida’s book The Vicious Deep answers the age-old question of “where does it go,” a similar answer is in Guillermo del Toro's movie The Shape of Water.
Speculative fiction asks the question “what if” and is the big umbrella category for science fiction, fantasy, urban fantasy (now Black authors in particular suggest we rename this contemporary fantasy), and paranormal.
Reading strategies are for everyone: We love maps in fantasy, so why not in contemporary fiction?
Victoria Avyeard was on Sarah Enni's First Draft podcast talking about world building.
The Hero’s Journey, or maybe the heroine’s journey.
NK Jemisin’s lecture about the cultural iceberg shows writers how to build a world that goes beyond what’s on the surface.
An interesting thread from a YA librarian, and another from author Elizabeth May, about why and how romance plots in SFF are pushed into YA.
Zoraida hosts a writing podcast with Dhonielle Clayton called Deadline City.
Relevant music perormed by Twin Temple, Marike van Dijk + Katell Keineg, King Missile, Dr. Octagon, and Led Zeppelin. Listen to the full Fated Music playlist on Spotify.
S03.17: The Hating Game by Sally Thorne: Lucy! Obviously Danny didn't send the roses!
There aren’t many recent romances you can point to and categorically label as game changers, but Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game definitely fits this bill. We talk about all the ways we love it, about sparkling dialogue and witty writing and what makes a romcom and how this book changed the cover game for a generation of romance. Oh, and yes, we get to the bottom (jk, there is no bottom) of Jen’s issues with first-person present.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order before December 5th for Christmas delivery!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial, and the following week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Fated States
Show Notes
Bridget Jones’s Diary came out in 1996 and the movie came out in 2001.
Enemies to Lovers is a completely beloved romance trope. Rivals to lovers lives within the larger trope and is very fun because it is often a perfectly matched pair on an even playing field. Sarah wrote Brazen & the Beast after being inspired by The Hating Game.
Here’s what we mean when we say situational comedy.
Jen hates present tense, but of course everyone should write what’s right for them.
Is it chick lit or is it women’s fiction? Why do these labels even exist? Just go back and read The Girl’s Guide to Hunting and Fishing or Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner.
We don’t talk about voice that much, but maybe we should.
There was a short lived Harlequin chick lit line called Red Dress Ink in 2001.
Here’s what Jen teaches her kids about characterization.
The Slate article about interiors and a very thorough rebuttal from Felicia Davin.
We talked about another hero who came up through Twilight fanfic.
If you like a scene where one main character tells off the family on behalf of their beloved, you should read Her Naughty Holiday by Tiffany Reisz.
In two weeks, we'll be reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. We are getting ready for Bridgerton and Wonder Woman 1984.
If you're interested in the Fated Mates Best of 2020 book pack and you want it delivered by Christmas, make sure you order it by 12/5.
S03.09: Christina Lauren on FanFiction and Romance: Blissward is How it Should Be
It’s joy month! We’ve got two of our very favorites with us — Christina Lauren is here with us to discuss fan fiction, romance, their romance origin stories, what they love about fic and how fic makes romance better! We talk about about a thousand books and authors, and do a little giggling too, so strap in!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 3 this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Fated States!
Join us this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin and make sure it turns up blue! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes! Sign up at the link, watch the video, and come hang out!
Remember: "Despair is not a strategy."
Call Your Senators. Tell them you want "the McConnell Rule" enforced.
Donate Donate Donate (if you can). We're thrilled to support "Get Mitch or Die Trying" via ActBlue -- donations to this are immediately split evenly between Senate candidates in elections
Vote early by mail if you are planning to vote by mail. Be sure to check that your ballot has all the correct information, and is returned accorting to the instructions (this goes double for people in NYC and Pennsylvania).
Show Notes
Christina Lauren has a new, delightful holiday romance out this week! Find In a Holidaze at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie.
When we recorded, the wildfire situation was particularly grim in California, and it’s still a huge problem facing many Western states. We hope you're all being safe out there.
A brief overview of CLo’s story from fandom to bestselling authors. The first of their published books came from Christina's fic "The Office," and was published as Beautiful Bastard. Sarah loves it a lot.
Wonder Woman 1984 has been postponed because of COVID, and according to the director the film is best seen in a theater. It is not because Robert Pattinson got COVID (He's back to business now). Sarah loves the preview of the new Batman movie.
Our love of Days of Lives couples Jack & Jennifer and Patch & Kayla is eternal and everlasting. (Ps. Jen's favorite scene is not in that video, her search continues.)
The Twilight fandom was vast, as we discussed in this episode. And there are important reasons why many folks are drawn to fandom. Last summer, Alexis Daria and Adriana Herrera talked about fanfiction and fandom on Instagram Live, and it's a great watch.
Christina and Lauren mentioned “canon” and “AU” and AO3 and livejournal and fandom bootcamp and maybe you want a primer on some fanfic terms.
Maybe you also need a primer on a cinnamon roll character.
These hugely popular romance writers came up through fanfic: Sally Thorne, Alice Clayton, Nina Bocci, Tara Sue Me, Amanda Weaver, Rebekah Weatherspoon, Helena Hunting, Daisy Prescott, EL James, and Ruth Clampett. Present-tense, stream of consciousness flow, and intense character work are some of the hallmarks of fandom writing, and some of those stylistic choices have influenced mainstream fiction in multiple genres, including romance.
Did you miss the community experience of The Submissive? Lucky for you, it's now available as a stand alone novel, and the next books in the series The Dominant and The Training also started as fic.
Christina and Lauren and Nina Bocci worked on the Fandom Gives Back fundraiser to benefit Alex’s Lemonade Stand.
Jen said she loves Beautiful Player, but honestly no one will be surprised that she got the title wrong and her real favorite is Beautiful Stranger. Just read all of them. You won't be disappointed.
The question of who owns these stories and the legalities of fanfic is so interesting, and specifically the history of Fifty Shades of Grey as Fanfic.
As promised, a list of CLo recommend fics:
Tropic of Virgo by in.a.blue.bathrobe (aka Kira Gold)
The Blessing and the Curse by theblackarrow (Sally Thorne)
The Best I Ever Had by whatsmynomdeplume
Mr. Horrible by algonquinrt
Creature of Habit by ezrocksangel
The Art Teacher by spanglemaker9
Summer of Salt by lolapops
A Murmur of Fire in the Vein
Scotch, Gin, and the New Girl by wtvoc
S03.03: Fifty Shades of Grey by EL James: Romance Has Gotten Hotter And I Think I Like It
If we’re going to talk about the last 10 years of romance — what we’d call modern romance — it’s basically impossible to do that out in the world without someone who doesn’t know much about the genre asking about EL James’s Fifty Shades of Grey. This week, Fated Mates is talking about Fifty Shades. Or, rather, we’re talking about what we're really talking about when we talk about Fifty Shades of Grey.
At no point in this discussion do we talk about tampons. You’re welcome.
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial for you! And the week after, we’re deep diving on Milla Vane’s A Heart of Blood and Ashes, which is a long fantasy romance. If you are a reader who needs content warnings, you might want to check out reviews on Goodreads.
Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Show Notes
There are honestly so many articles about Fifty Shades that Jen couldn't possibly even link to them. But the one about the increase in ER visits, necktie sales up 23%, and Jen wrote about the history of romance between Fabio and Fifty Shades.
Drunk Austen went through a rather spectacular break-up last week; we promise never to do this and swear we are full legal partners in our current venture.
Fanfiction brought Christina Lauren, Tara Sue Me, Sally Thorne and so many others to us. And lots of great BDSM was written after Fifty Shades by too many authors to count, but many think of The Original Sinners series by Tiffany Reisz as being truly excellent.
There's a reason why women hate dealing with car salesmen and mechanics. Jen wants you to know that if you're in Chicago and looking for a mechanic, the guys at Ashland Tire and Auto will never treat you like that.
Perhaps you're interested in whether or not Fifty Shades of Grey was copyright infringement?
The 2010 He-cession vs the 2020 she-cession.
Sarah reviewed Grey for the Washington Post, and just a few weeks ago, Midnight Sun (Twilight from Edward's Point of View was released.
Ope. We forgot to talk about Thomas Hardy, so just read this article from The Guardian instead.
Mrs. Robinson refers to a character in the 1967 film The Graduate.
Flat Stanley is a character in a children's book, but here we are talking about the theory that readers insert themselves into a book and become the main character. Many people believed that teenage girls reading Twilight imaged themselves as Bella, for example, but that's deeply rooted in misogny. In Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women, Laura Kinsale suggested that women reading romance imagine themselves as the hero rather than the heroine.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold a lot of fucking copies. A lot. A lot!
Lori Perkins was the editor of Fifty Writers on Fifty Shades of Grey. You can also check out Hard Core Romance: Fifty Shades of Grey, Bestsellers, and Society by Eva Illouz.
Jen refers to Christian as the Marlboro Man, a symbol of a kind of gruff, male, American renegade loner.
BDSM contracts are a thing!
Where does Kink come from? And what Fifty Shades gets right and wrong about kink and BDSM.
In two weeks: A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane. Has at The Book Pushers has a reviw with content warnings, so check that if you need to.
Sarah has a contemporary novella in the Naught Brits anthology which comes out September 15, preorder today!
S02.39: Childhood Friends to Adult Lovers
One of readers’ very favorite tropes this week…sometimes it’s friends-to-lovers and sometimes it’s friends-to-enemies-to-lovers and sometimes it’s friends-to-attempted-murder-to-lovers….we’re talking childhood friends to adult lovers and we will get to the bottom of it! Get ready for way too much music from The Saint. But first things first….Black Lives Matter.
Next week, we’re officially OFFICIALLY reading Judith McNaught’s A Kingdom of Dreams! Get ready for Sarah’s favorite historical of all time. It’s HAPPENING. Find A Kingdom of Dreams at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo … and don’t forget your favorite indie, which is probably shipping books right now and definitely needs your patronage!
Also, if you love the music in this or any of our episodes, check out our Spotify playlist, which includes it all!
Show Notes
Looking to donate? Here's why supporting community bail funds is so important. The Minnesota Freedom Fund has raised millions of dollars for protestors who have been arrested, and here is an exhaustive list of other collectives and organizaions spearheaded by Black activists.
Sarah donated to The Brooklyn Bail Fund and Jen to the Chicago Community Bail Fund. Find one in your city or state through the National Bail Fund Network.
Bookshop.Org has a special link if you want to shop and support Black-owned Indie bookstores.
Register to vote. And make sure you're still registered. You can also donate to Stacy Abrams's nonprofit, Fair Fight, which is dedicated to ensure voting access for all Americans..
Jen's friend Susan is putting together a service to help parents keep kids busy this summer, it's called My Camp Box.
Maybe you'd like to find some more unrequited love romances? And, by the way, Requited is an actual word.
Jacob imprinting on a baby in the Twilight series was...a thing. But in the MG (middle grade) graphic novel Fake Blood, a bookish boy has a crush on the coolest girl in school, and she just happens to be a vampire slayer.
Friend of the Pod @Bandherbooks led a read along of Again the Magic a few weeks ago.
Sarah loves The Saint, a Val Kilmer classic. The author of that NYTimes profile, Taffy Brodesser-Akner also wrote a LitFic novel Jen loved called Fleishman is in Trouble.
Next time you need details about the exact details of what's happening in a movie, TV show, video game, or book for your kids, check out Common Sense Media.
Mulan II is a romance. Don't @ Sarah; Alvin and the Chimpunks is a not a romance. Don't @ Jen
Preorder Daring and the Duke from WORD in Brooklyn and score a special edition yellow Fated Matessticker.
Next up, A Kingdom of Dreams.
S02.37: Partner in Danger romance
It’s one of our favorite tropes this week — get your pens out, because we’re talking about about a thousand books that tackle Partner in Danger! You know what we’re talking about: “Oh no! This person I sometimes bone is in danger! WAIT! I am feeling feelings!!!” It’s great. We’re going to talk about why. Sarah would like to apologize in advance, because it was really hot in her house when we recorded, and it scrambled her brain.
We love having you with us! — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast, please!
Next week, it’s erotica week! We’re reading a book that Sarah loves, Nikki Sloane’s Three Little Mistakes, which we’ve talked about before on the podcast, but we want to deep dive on. Get Three Little Mistakes from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo … and don’t forget your favorite indie, which is probably shipping books right now and definitely needs your patronage!
Also, if you love the music in this or any of our episodes, check out our Spotify playlist, which includes it all!
Show Notes
As of last week, going outside looks like a pretty safe thing to do.
In fact, there is less central A/C in New York City. So watch out for the window units.
Zoom fatigue is real.
You know, there is quite a large assortment of "Dorothy in the Sheets, Blanche in the Sheets" merch on Etsy. In case you need to talk a call from your editor.
We all struggle with the illusion of control.
The trope of the damsel in distress has been around for a long, long time. So let's not fridge more women, mm'kay.
Friend of the pod Adriana Herrera has some words of wisdom about writing trauma in romance. And also Jen and Adriana did a Facebook Live chat on the topic. (link & audio forthcoming).
Pour one out for planes. And cars. And alcohol from mysterious European lands.
In case you missed Blood Blow Jobs: please refer to Fated Mates Season One, Lothaire and Rune.
Jen looked it up a map. In Reborn Yesterday, the heroine is dropped onto the Belt Parkway, not the Long Island Expressway. Still seems bad.
Edward saved Bella from a careening van in the school parking lot. And from a bunch of drunk guys.
The Most Dangerous Game is a pretty great short story, classically used to teach person v. person conflict.
Morality Chain is a great trope. Look for an upcoming interstitial on this topic soon!
In Pretty Woman, she rescues him right back.
Preorder signed copies of Daring and the Duke from WORD bookstore in Brooklyn and you'll get swag from Sarah and this special yellow Fated Mates sticker.
Books referenced this week
13: Can Eastern Promises Viggo Mortensen Get It? - The Professional (Game Makers)
The Game Makers Series! Kresley’s first foray into contemporary begins with The Professional, which is some kind of book, y’all. Originally released in three parts over six weeks, The Professional stars Natalie, an American Ph.D. who happens to be the long lost daughter of a Russian mobster, and said mobster’s bodyguard, who can’t get enough of watching her in the tub. Or on his cellphone. Or tied up in a sex club. You’ll see!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, we’re back to IAD, just like the original Kresley fans were! Get ready to have your heart ripped out by these childhood lovers turned enemies turned lovers again! Poor Lanthe has been running from her Vrekener, Thronos since Kiss of the Demon King, and finally she gets her story! Read Dark Skye at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
When we asked about the serialization of The Professional, listener Sarah Asnaashari came to the rescue!
Serialization of novels used to be very common, and although we've all heard the myth that Dickens was paid by the word, in fact he was paid by the installment.
Roxie Rivera is the author of the Her Russian Protector series, relevant to everyone's interests, she also wrote a "prison planet romance" series under the name Lolita Lopez.
Eastern Promises is a great movie.
Scroll down this list for the description of Edward's creepiness in Twilight.
Sookie Stackhouse is a telepath in the books and TV show. This is an interesting essay on why Hollywood should stop talking about telepathy as a disability.
Jen will never get tired of the greatest real estate listing ever.
Real hurricanes form over the Atlantic very similarly to the way Jen describes a hurricane of an alphahole forming.
We want characters to have agency.
The story of Anastasia Romanov is pretty amazing. Jen recommends this YA book called The Family Romanov for both adults and middle school readers.
George Michael's Listen Without Prejudice is an awesome album, and Jen still thinks Freedom is one the greatest music videos of all time. Sarah's theme song is Too Funky.
Jen recommends (in that "this book is terrifying way") The Man without a Face: the Unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin. But if you just want the quick and dirty version, read this story about how Putin stole a superbowl ring from Robert Kraft.
Romance author Jayne Ann Krentz often talks about how author's have a "core story."
Dark Skye is our next IAD book.
1: We're Gonna Come Back to Biting - A Hunger Like No Other
Sarah & Jen talk A Hunger Like No Other, why reading Alphas in 2018 is a tricky situation, how Kresley instantly changed the game with Lachlain MacRieve, and why Emma's bite sets the standard for the whole series.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, a like would be awesome!
Our next read (in two weeks) will be No Rest for the Wicked — the story of Sebastian Wroth (vampire) and Kaderin the Cold-Hearted (valkyrie), and the beginning of the IAD Amazing Race mini-arc!
Show Notes
Why do people hate the word moist?
There really are catacombs below Paris, and they seem very creepy.
Co-ed is a more dated word than you'd expect. According to the Oxford English dictionary, it's been in use since the 1880s. Game, set, and match to The Independent, which printed the following sentence in 1903: "Any college where the girls are commonly called ‘co-eds’ is not a truly co-educational institution."
The TSTL trope in romance heroines.
The Fated Mates trope.
Maybe you all missed the Kavanaugh hearings. I love myself, so we'll just stick to one informative infographic.
Jen's romance book club at 57th Street Books in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. If you're not in Chicago, bookstores and libraries across the country and online will be participating in The Great Big Romance Read in December 2018. Find your people!
Romance isn't the only genre examining old favorites through the lens of #MeToo. Molly Ringwald looked back at John Hughes and The Breakfast Club in The New Yorker. This podcast from WNYC is about pop culture in the #MeToo era.
The list of RITA award winners, sorted by year.
A million articles have been written about Twilight, but I like this one that looks at the big themes that bubble up time and time again.
Alisha Rai has said lots of smart things about toxic masculinity, as it turns out.
Representation in BDSM matters.
Take a crash course in modernity.
A brief overview of Cassandra from Greek mythology.
The Devil in Winter, because everyone loves to read about a sex deal.
According to The Smart Bitches, a magic hoo-hah is "shorthand for the equally illustrious and many powers of the female sex organ, specifically the vagina. The Magic Hoo-Hoo tames the Mighty Wang, and becomes the magnetized true north for the hero’s trouser compass from the point of their first sexual coupling. The Magic Hoo-Hoo brings the hero to monogamous attachment, because after experiencing it, the hero will not be satisfied with anything or anyone else."
I'm sure everyone wants to learn more about moon phases.
Fury is an actual furie.
When we say Lothaire was a big deal, we mean there was an actual Lothaire bus touring around America.
Are you ready for No Rest for the Wicked?
