S03.46: Interview with Susan Elizabeth Phillips
We are so excited to have absolute romance legend Susan Elizabeth Phillips with us to discuss every fangirly question we had for her! We talked about her new book, When Stars Collide, the latest in the Chicago Stars series, about her role in inventing the sports romance, about the opera and the way she thinks about her career after a few decades of writing. We had the BEST time.
Our next read along, sometime in July, is Cat Sebastian’s wonderful Unmasked by the Marquess. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Susan Elizabeth Phillips! We talked about an earlier book in the Chicago Stars series, Nobody’s Baby But Mine in season two.
Speaking of amazing stories about opera singers, last week, an opera singer in Pennsylvania gave birth in the car while her husband was driving.
As it turns out, the Opera in Verona is a pretty big deal! If you’re ever in Chicago, go to The Lyric Opera and then let Jen know because she wants someone to go with her. The Chicago Children’s Choir is amazing, too and they often collaborate with the CSO and Lyric Opera.
All you need to know about the totally awesome Chicago Flag, and why it's better than most city flags.
The Dangerous Men, Adventurous Women anthology, which explored the genre from the perspective of romance authors instead of academics, was published in 1992.
Jen was on Learning the Tropes to talk about Kiss an Angel if you want to hear more about it.
There are really cool things and really bad things about the Chicago River.
You can preorder signed copies of Bombshell from Word Bookstore in Brooklyn.
S03.45: Dark Romance: Monsters Need Love, Too.
We promised you an episode on Dark Romance and truthfully we’re pretty proud of how well we’ve delivered. We’ve got Kenya Goree-Bell, Nisha Sharma, Joanna Shupe and Jo Brenner with us today to dig deep on this subgenre that we don’t read regularly. We are endlessly grateful for their guidance through this end of the romance pool!
We talk about what makes a romance “dark,” about how dark romance differs from morality chain and taboo romance, and about why dark romance resonates with so many readers. Oh, and yes, if you’re curious, we fill your TBR pile (obvi). Stay tuned at the end of the episode for additional reflections from Sarah & Jen.
CONTENT NOTE: Because Dark Romance can include all sorts of problematic content, we don’t shy away from many of those topics in this episode. Proceed with caution, both in listening and in reading.
AUDIO NOTE: Due to countless irregularities, planned and unplanned, the audio in this episode isn’t up to our normal standards. But it sounds fine.
Our next read along, sometime in July, is Cat Sebastian’s wonderful Unmasked by the Marquess. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome our panel of dark romance experts: Kenya Goree-Bell, Nisha Sharma, Joanna Shupe, and Jo Brenner.
The hallmarks and tenets of Dark Romance
- All dubious consent and non-consent romance is dark romance (although not all dark romance has dubcon or nonconsensual elements).
- It’s about what the HEA is made up of: If the non-aggressor or non-villian moves into the dark (rather than pulling the other into the light), then it would qualify as dark romance.
- Often the aggressor/villain is static, while the non-aggressor finds their light or strength in the new world they exist in. This person does all the work and learns how to navigate a life around the aggressor and their world. These are not stories of love redeeming, but rather of learning to find love and happiness with the person (people) in front of you.
- The characters are suffering from current or past psychological or physical trauma. The non-aggressor represents the last bits of humanity that the aggressor has to hold on to. Dark romance explores a relationship where only one person has strains of humanity and the impact it has on a person without it.
- The evil and violence of the aggressor must take place on the page.
Some Terms we'll use on this episode
Consensual non-consent (non-con): is when romantic partners engage “in behaviors that may include role-playing nonconsensual behaviors, or may involve negotiating sexual behaviors where one partner agrees to give up consent during certain behaviors or relationships.” This can include fantasizing about rape and kidnapping, and lots of women have complicated feelings about these fantasies.
Dubious consent (dub-con): is the gray area between full, enthusiastic consent and rape. A person hasn't give outright consent to having sex and might not consider it rape; however, some other factor prevents them from saying no.
The Aggressor: rather than use hero/heroine, Jo started using aggressor and non-aggressor as a way of talking about chracters who exhibit very non-heroic behavior.
The skin suit: What Jen calls the experience of reading a book where she wants more distance between herself and the main characters.
The Murder Meal: Sarah noticed that a common trope of dark romance is a meal where blood is shed and people still continue to eat.
Notes and Other Links
You may have listened to our Morality Chain episode, where we made a graphic explaining how it differs from dark romance. Next month, Nikki Sloane will join us to discuss taboo romance.
It’s not Mordor unless you’re a hobbit. Sarah is not opposed to elevensies, so it's fine.
Earlier this year, there was a Saturday Night Live skit about women watching The Murder Show. Why do women like reading about serial killers? Did you see this essay in Slate about a woman who thinks she slept with a man who went on to be a serial killer?
Game of Thrones and it’s penchant for sexual violence is still influencing pop culture.
The only thing that’s forbidden in dark romance is cheating, which shows how firmly these books are rooted in the romance genre, as compared to the rampant cheating by male characters The Godfather and other mafia movies, but this is often rooted in obsession rather than a belief in monogamy.
While there's very little (possibly no) research on readers of dark romance, but there's lots of research on the horror genre. Sarah’s friend Micol Ostow, who writes YA horror recommended this essay about the "spectacle of the ruined body." Meanwhile, Jen follows Becky Spratford, a librarian and horror expert, who says that one thing romance and horror have in common is they are both “genres of emotion.”
There’s some research on horror and spoilers from Jonathan Leavitt & Nicholas Christenfeld which indicates that spoilers might allow people to enjoy a story more fully. Perhaps dark romance readers, regardless of what terrible things happen, can safely continue reading because they know there will be an HEA.
Why do we like to watch and read media where characters are undergoing trauma? In The Paradox of Horror: Fear as a Positive Emotion, Katerina Bantinaki explains how readers experience reading about fear and trauma. Related: (Why) Do You Like Scary Movies? by G. Neil Martin.
A highly gendered kind of world exists in many m/f Dark Romances, and the article Her Body, Himself: Gender in Slasher Films by Carol Clover explores how similar themes play out in horror movies. As Nisha said, there are queer and polyamarous dark romance and a few the panel recommends are Soul Survivor by Daniel de Lorne, the Wicked Villains Series by Katee Robert, Trouble or the Darkness trilogy by Nora Ash, and Manipulate by Pam Godwin.
Stockholm Syndrome isn’t real, quelle surprise, but it still a popular idea in pop culture of all kinds. Many dark romance novels show characters using extreme or maladaptive coping strategies in an attempt to heal themselves or others without the help of therapists or medicine, a particularly American problem since so few people have adequate (if any) coverage for mental health.
Dark romance runs long, they’re all “Zack Snyder cut” books. We speculated that there are two reasons for the length of many of these books:
- The books are long because the trauma on page must have an equal or greater redemption arc. Readers must believe that the non-agressor has fully accepted the bad deeds of the aggressor in order to believe the HEA.
- Many of these books are on KU, which means authors are getting paid by the page. Like Charles Dickens, the incentive is to write longer to increase their pay.
S03.43: Writers in Romance with Tia Williams
We’re welcoming Tia Williams, author of the wonderful Seven Days in June, to talk about her delicious book, about writing writers, about romances set in New York City, about her youth as a romance reader, and about Drew Barrymore as inspiration, and about The Joan Wilder?!.
Our next read along is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org! Get the others in the series, too, while you’re at it, because you’ll probably want to read the whole thing.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
If you want a signed copy of Bombshell along with a Fated Mates sticker, preorder from Word Bookstore in Brooklyn.
Welcome Tia Williams! Her new release, Seven Days in June, is Reese’s Book Club pick for June and also is the June pic for the Tanya Time book club with Tanya Sam. In this article in Ebony, Tia talks about her commitment to putting Black love on page and creating rich, interesting lives for Shane and Eva.
Eva’s website is EvaMercyMe, and her vampire hero is Sebastian. And according to Twitter, all romance Sebastians are good Sebatians.
Slow Heat in Heaven by Sandra Brown is quite the read, and we talked about it on the Texas!Chase episode.
The question of “what if Romeo and Juliet met as grown-ups” was also the idea behind Kate Clayborn’s Love at First, and we talked about it with Kate on an episode about retellings in romance.
Drew Barrymore’s memoir Little Girl Lost is the story of her childhood in Hollywood, and definitely was hugely influential and shocking, and it still is worth a read if you can find a copy. It hasn't been digitized!
Jen talked to Adriana Herrera about how people might self-harm, cut, and use other extreme coping mechanisms if they have experienced trauma.
The Brooklyn Book Festival is not for the faint of heart.
More about the quote “Easy reading is damn hard writing.”
The Argeneau series by Lynsay Sands started with started with A Quick Bite in 2005, and book 33, Mile High with a Vampire comes out in Sept of 2021.
Want to watch that TikTok about The Unhoneymooners?
Romancing the Stone is a great movie from the 80s, and “The Joan Wilder!?” is a line from the movie. And, friend of the pod Linda has a t-shirt you might like. What’s looking like a great movie with a similar set up is The Lost City of D with Channing Tatum and Sandra Bullock.
Next week, we’ll be discussing Lead (and the other books in the Stage Dive series) by Kylie Scott.
S03.42: Fantasy Romance Interstitial with Zoraida Córdova
This week, Zoraida Córdova (aka Zoey Castile) joins us to talk about fantasy romance and why it is so hard to find it in the romance pool. We talk about speculative fiction, high fantasy, low fantasy, urban fantasy, contemporary fantasy, paranormal romance and more, all while trying to figure out just what makes something fantasy and not paranormal (we think we’ve cracked the code). We also talk world building, about maps, and about merman junk.
Our next read along is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org! Get the others in the series, too, while you’re at it, because you’ll probably want to read the whole thing.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Zoraida Córdova! Zoraida writes MG, YA, and adult speculative fiction, and also romance under the name Zoey Castile.
Puerto Rico is a US territory and residents of the island are American citizens.
Why Moscow Mules are served in copper mugs.
We love Norma Perez-Hernandez who is an amazing, exuberant editor at Kensington, and if you don’t follow her on Twitter she should. Norma also was on the 2020 Publisher's Weekly Star Watch List.
Zoraida’s book The Vicious Deep answers the age-old question of “where does it go,” a similar answer is in Guillermo del Toro's movie The Shape of Water.
Speculative fiction asks the question “what if” and is the big umbrella category for science fiction, fantasy, urban fantasy (now Black authors in particular suggest we rename this contemporary fantasy), and paranormal.
Reading strategies are for everyone: We love maps in fantasy, so why not in contemporary fiction?
Victoria Avyeard was on Sarah Enni's First Draft podcast talking about world building.
The Hero’s Journey, or maybe the heroine’s journey.
NK Jemisin’s lecture about the cultural iceberg shows writers how to build a world that goes beyond what’s on the surface.
An interesting thread from a YA librarian, and another from author Elizabeth May, about why and how romance plots in SFF are pushed into YA.
Zoraida hosts a writing podcast with Dhonielle Clayton called Deadline City.
Relevant music perormed by Twin Temple, Marike van Dijk + Katell Keineg, King Missile, Dr. Octagon, and Led Zeppelin. Listen to the full Fated Music playlist on Spotify.
S03.41: Spy Romance Interstitial with Nana Malone
You are in the right place! Your eyes do not deceive you! We’re actually talking about spy romances this week and no Sarahs were harmed during the discussion, but that’s probably because it was a discussion with one of her favorite people, the fantastic Nana Malone!
We talk about Nana’s immense career, about how she took matters into her own hands and started making the covers she wished to see in the world, about her Brown Nipple reading challenge, about her latest book, a Kobo original, The Spy in 3B, and about porny ferris wheels. Real ordinary stuff. We also get to the bottom of why Sarah doesn’t like spy romances generally, but why she can’t get enough of Mr. & Mrs. Smith retellings.
Our next read along in some number of weeks (three? four?) is Kylie Scott’s Lead, one of our longtime favorites. Get it at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org!
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Nana Malone back to the pod, and if you want to hear more about the Brown Nipple Challenge, check out her Instagram. She is an amazing author and recently became her own cover model after failing to find good stock photos for her books.
If you don’t know how stock photography works, here’s a brief primer on how they can be used to make book covers and teasers. The problems with finding stock photography that is truly diverse is a well-known problem. For most authors, custom photography is cost-prohibitive. Nana’s favorite photographer is Wander Aguiar.
If you want to hear more about romance covers and their history, Sarah was interviewed on an episode of the 99% Invisible podcast about covers this week. Head over and have a listen after you listen to this!
Just in case you need a quick review, there are currently three paths in publishing: self-published, indie, and traditional. It’s common to use “indie” and “self-published” interchangeably, which why Nana described an author as “their own business.” Strictly speaking, Indie means small, independent presses, such as Violet Gaze Press. And Trad, or traditional publishing, refers to the Big Five (Big Four?) New York publishing houses: Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster.
A little about the history of Kobo and why it’s worth supporting them.
No one likes it when the Mary Sue character has no idea what’s going on.
Turns out that Ferris Wheel sex is a real thing at Coachella. And Myrtle Beach. And Vegas. And Kindle Unlimited.
Daniel Craig jumps on a train. Pierce Brosnon catches a plane.
Faberge Eggs have a storied history and are very fancy.
The hero of Night Magic is not that John McClane. If you like a Cold War thriller, you might enjoy a bonkers 80s spy thriller, The Charm School by Nelson DeMille.
Jen did love Lies, but had some thoughts about the ending and unreliable narrators that you can read after you finish the book.
We also mentioned some movies and TV shows about spies: Mr. and Mrs. Smith, La Femme Nikita, Spy, James Bond, True Lies, The Americans, Kingsman, and The Scarlet Pimpernel.
Music
S03.39: The Soulmate Equation & Trope Death Match with Christina Lauren
It is release week for some of our favorite people, and we’re here to celebrate with them! Join us for a wild conversation about the books Jen refers to as “the brightest bananas on the tree” — each of us has selected a truly wild ride of a book, and we’re going to share them with you! We also talk about their fabulous new release, now Sarah’s favorite CLo book, The Soulmate Equation. Preorder it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Bookshop.org, or signed from Vroman’s bookstore!
Our next read along is out of print (but available in audio!), so you will have to do a bit of a used bookstore hunt to get it! Get Anne Stuart’s truly eye-widening Tangled Lies at your local library or via a used bookseller near you. We recommend checking Amazon, eBay & Thrift Books.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
If you'd like to order signed copies of The Soulmate Equation, check out Vroman's Bookstore or the other book shops on CLo's virtual book tour. Tonight, 5/19/2021, Christina and Lauren are celebrating the launch of The Soulmate Equation with Sarah, Xio Axelrod, and Rachel Epstein.
If you want to dive into the Theranos story, Lo recommends the book Bad Blood by John Carreyrou, and the New York Times has a list of recommended things to read and watch.
23 & Me and other DNA Ancestry tests can tell you some things: whether or not you think cilantro tastes like soap, and about the size of our hair follicles, but as of right now, science can’t tell you much about your fated mate, I mean soulmate.
Questions about the future of technology and how it intersects with humanity make for great television in shows like Black Mirror, The One, and Casual.
I don’t know, maybe you’ve heard about there being a fundamental incompatibility between science and religion, but others are pretty sure we can work it out.
If you’re not a sportsball fan, Michael Jordan is a kind of a big deal.
Aphrodisia was a short-lived Kensington imprint that focused on erotica and erotic romance, it ran from 2006 to 2014. Jen asked if it was Ellora’s Cave, which was another powerhouse erotic romance publisher that shuttered in 2014.
A satyr is a magical creature from Greek mythology, so we’re not sure if they 1) have two dicks and 2) if they are covered in soft fur. You’re going to have to use your own imagination.
We all hope that Nicholas the satyr is a little sexier that Mr. Tumnus from the movie version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
Slate had a woman asking for advice about her pandemic threesome with two brothers, and you can tell a romance reader didn’t write that advice, because probably they could work that out. Jen alerted Jenny Nordbak immediately, of course.
Are you also looking for monster fucking romances?
If you need a quick review on alpha traits, listen to our episode from season two.
Knotting isn't just for A/B/O, it's also in romance. Same with mPreg romances and DP (which no one has made a list of!), in case you need a primer. Lo is looking for a romance that she thinks is called Passionate Ink about an octopus shifter tattoo artist...Maybe? Christina wants your favorite mPreg romance recommendation. We'll also take marriage of convenience recs and secret scar recs if you're in the mood.
More about the word "quim" and how it was used in that Avengers movie.
Next up, Tangled Lies by Anne Stuart. Buy it used because it's not avaible as an eBook.
S03.27: Retellings in Romance Novels with Kate Clayborn
We are joined by the fabulous Kate Clayborn — the first in the Fated Mates five-timer club! — to talk about about retellings in romance and to celebrate the launch of her new book, Love At First, which you can get wherever books are sold. We talk about the difference between retellings and homages, about Shakespeare and mythology and retellings of classic texts versus modern ones. And of course, we fill your TBR.
Whether you're new to Fated Mates this month or have been with us for all three seasons, we adore you, and we're so grateful to have you.
Next week, we're back with a read along of Mary Balogh's A Matter of Class, a short historical novel. Get it for only $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or Google Books.
Show Notes
Welcome Kate Clayborn, our first five-timer. She was with us for the Best Friend’s Sibling Interstitial, Kresley’s The Player, the Sickbed Scenes Interstitial, Derek Craven Day 2021, and today’s interstitial on Romance Retellings.
Texas and the rest of America got hit with some espically bad winter weather this February. This is climate change.
Kate released Love at First this week, which is an homage to Romeo and Juliet. Kate’s 2020 book, Love Lettering, is an Overdrive read. Get it today with no wait!
Dr. Jill Biden loves Valentine’s Day.
JK Rowling is a problem, and it’s changed the way many Harry Potter fans think about her books.
Yes, yes, the English Teacher memes are so funny. Well take that.
Tl;dr: archetypes are about character,while retellings are about plot.
In Where Dreams Begin, Zachary Bronson is a hero that follows the Beast archetype, and Jen saw it in the scene where Holly first enters his house.
Story can be a safe way to explore terrifying ideas about society and people. For example, both La Llorona and Medea are about mothers who kill their children, but have a kind of distance that the story of Andrea Yates does not.
Dr. Jennifer Lynn Barnes writes about storytelling and the universal ID.
Maybe you don't know about the story of Salman Rushdie and the fatwa against him for his novel The Satanic Verses.
Our next read along episode will be A Matter of Class by Mary Balogh.
Music
Retellings from Literature
Retellings of Fairy Tales
Retellings from Pop Culture
S03.24: It's Derek Craven Day and We're Going Through Some Things
We’re wearing our t-shirts and buttons, and spending a whole lot of time talking about what Derek Craven would and wouldn’t do with one of our very favorites — Kate Clayborn. Thanks to everyone who played our silly Derek Craven games this year — don’t forget to visit our Derek Craven Day page for charts, graphs and hilarious memes made from your submissions! Also, if you haven’t read Dreaming of You, now’s your chance to get it at a special Derek Craven Day price — $2.99!
We love you, and we’re thrilled we can celebrate this, the best of all holidays, with you.
Next week, we’re back to our regularly scheduled programming with Naima Simone’s Blackout Billionaires series (With a little Derek Craven Day excitement in there, too!) In order, the books are: The Billionaire's Bargain, Black Tie Billionaire, and Blame it on the Billionaire. Find them at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
Here's the history of Derek Craven Day in tweets, but also our mantra: there are 2 kinds of Lisa Kleypas readers.
Jen was shitposting about Kleypas heroes.
Mary Jane Wells and Rosalyn Landor are great audiobook narrators.
It’s not Talk Talk, it’s TikTok.
All About fabric and paper scissors.
No one should test the patience of Nora Roberts, part 231.
Kate has strong feelings about Irish Spring.
In case you need an explainer of what happened with Reddit and the stock market last week. We think Derek Craven would enjoy this story.
Why backup cameras were invented.
They say you can't buy your way onto the Bestseller lists, but it's been done.
Kate's question about romance heroes and Halloween.
Lisa Kleypas revealed the cover for her new book, Devil In Disguise, today. Take a look!
The Runners Up
ccfyd5ns
S03.21: An Interview with Sex Columnist Sophia Benoit: Prom is Cancelled
This week, we’re thrilled to be joined by the fabulous Sophia Benoit, sex columnist for GQ magazine and romance novel lover! We talk about romance, about why it’s so hard to talk about sex in the world, about the books Sophia has written and is planning to write, and about Jimmy Butler. Because, obviously.
Happy New Year!
Next week is our first read along of 2021, Alexis Hall’s For Real! Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
Welcome GQ sex columnist, Sophia Benoit. She’s absolutely great on twitter and writes an amazing advice column, which is available as a Substack. Her book of essays, Well, That Was Exhausting will be out in the summer of 2021.
The Sex and the City reference, of course, it to Carrie Bradshaw’s job as a dating columnist.
America has a sex education problem.
Lollapalooza is very fun and the music is great and every time she’s attended, it has made Jen feel like she’s a million years old.
Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina has a famous first line, but the rest of it is very long.
HoCo, FauxCo, and Prom is Cancelled.
If you’re looking for paranormal, all of season one is a read-along of the Immortals After Dark series by Kresley Cole.
The Tom Selleck and Burt Reynolds mustaches of the 80s were quite a thing. And if you look at the original covers of romances from that time, you'll see them in action.
Reddit’s Am I the Asshole (AITA) is a cultural touchstone for so many people.
We are adding Jimmy Butler to our list of favorite athletes, which started with Jurgen Klopp. Here is a bunch of Jimmy Butler information for you: about the trade from The Bulls, about his minivan, about his love of country music, about his coffee company, about his teamwork, and about his fashion sense. The third member of the Fated Mates sports team is Ted Lasso.
Next week, we’ll be reading For Real by Alexis Hall.
Jessa Kane New Year's Eve Extravaganza
WELCOME 2021!
As is customary on Fated Mates, we’re releasing a special New Year’s Eve episode that requires headphones if you’re in mixed company! We brought some of our most favorite people together for a very special crossover episode of Fated Mates and Andie J. Christopher’s Instagram TV Juggernaut: Drunk Romance History, during which we drink a delightful mix of alcohol and talk about a delightful mix of erotic romance by the queen of the quick and dirty novella—Jessa Kane.
We’re talking priests and daddy kink, mafia hitmen, billionaires, husky heroes, stepbrothers and what Joanna Shape refers to as the Kane-Trope-Wheel. Tracey Livesay has a mug with penises on it. Bring in 2021 right. (Also, if you, like Joanna and Jen have read all of the Jessa Kane’s, no worries! She released a new one today—BURLY—just in time for this episode! Shero!)
Head over to Andie’s IGTV channel for the video version.
Next week, we have a special guest episode, and in two weeks, our first read along of 2021, Alexis Hall’s For Real. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
One more chance for phone-banking is Monday 1/4/2021 at 5pm central.
Listen to last year's New Year's Eve epsiode on Pegging with special guest, Sierra Simone!
Have we mentioned Drunk Romance History on Andie's Instagram?
We are joined today by our friends: Andie Christopher, Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera, LaQuette, Tracey Livesay, Nisha Sharma, and Joanna Shupe.
Get Tracey's penis mug here.
Normalize sex toys. Today's guests are big fans of LELO products and recommend: The Ora2, The Sona2, and The Gigi2.
Jessa Kane: Starter Level
The Two Ps, One V Level
The Daddy Level
The Voyeur Level
He’s a Big, Big Man Level
He’s a Bad, Bad Man Level
Books from our Guests
Jennifer Prokop 0:04 / #
Sarah, it's New Year's Eve and you know what that means?
Sarah MacLean 0:06 / #
We have what like, six hours till 2021! We've just got to hold it down you guys.
Jennifer Prokop 0:13 / #
Some of our listeners are already living in that 2021 future.
Sarah MacLean 0:17 / #
My God, is that amazing? Report in Australia, India, Russia! Hello anyway, but what are we doing, because we don't usually release on a Thursday?
Jennifer Prokop 0:31 / #
No, we certainly do not! But it is New Year's Eve. What we do usually do though, around New Year's Eve is release an episode that is going to be the flat out dirtiest one of the year.
Jennifer Prokop 0:43 / #
I don't know the first year, maybe we weren't on this train. But last year, we released our pegging episode, which is probably one of our best episodes ever.
Sarah MacLean 0:50 / #
Aside from 50 shades. I'm pretty sure that episode is our most popular episode.
Sarah MacLean 0:54 / #
And why not? Why would it not be?
Jennifer Prokop 0:58 / #
Start your new year with a new resolution? Try new things. So, we were talking...
Sarah MacLean 1:05 / #
No, you weren't there!
Jennifer Prokop 1:05 / #
So tell us what happened.
Sarah MacLean 1:07 / #
I have a group of friends. You know a lot of them because they've been on the podcast. And we were having a holiday drink via zoom. And during this holiday drink via zoom, and one of those people is Andie Christopher, who is running an Instagram Live fun thing every Saturday called Drunk Romance History, where people drink and then talk about an old romance novel that is bananas. And that's extremely fun. And you should go watch all of them on her Instagram feed. Anyway, so as we were talking, we got into a discussion of Jessa Kane, who we've not talked about, I don't think, on the pod even when we did those quick and dirty episode.
Jennifer Prokop 1:47 / #
I think we mentioned one of them on the mafia interstitial.
Jennifer Prokop 1:52 / #
It's because it's really like a erotica. It's not really quite erotic romance.
Sarah MacLean 1:56 / #
I also feel like we came to Jessica Kane a little later. Because when we did the quick and dirty episode, the fact that we did not reference her would be just very remiss, but maybe we weren't reading her then. I don't know. But the point is, she's very quick and very dirty. And so we started talking about how she really does like, she sort of takes the finger constantly. Like there's just there's no, there's no level of Jessa Kanedom that you can get to where it feels like it's too much.
Sarah MacLean 2:28 / #
It takes the finger and puts it everywhere a finger could go.
Sarah MacLean 2:31 / #
Indeed she does.
Sarah MacLean 2:32 / #
And so we you know, we're drinking at the time, and we were laughing and there was some suggestions and somebody suggested, "Oh, Andie, you should do a just Kane episode of drunk romance history." And I said, "Well, what if we recorded a big zoom conversation about Jesss Kane and our respective favorite books, or the first book we read? Some of them were Jessa Kane virgins. And we all came together this week to record what was an extremely fun zoom about Jessa Kane. It is a crossover episode. So you are about to get Fated Mates - slash - Drunk Romance History. So you can hear the audio right here in your earholes. And then if you want to see LaQuette's face, which is very worth worth watching, to be honest, you can head over to Andie's Instagram account, which is @authorAndieJ. And we'll put links in show notes and you can watch the video version of this very fun hour and a half. As we did last year with the pegging episode, we're going to drop this early in the evening. So if you are staying safe, and masked, and solo New Year's Eve style, you have many hours and many Jessa Kane books to get through.
Jennifer Prokop 3:58 / #
One last serious order of business before we turn it over. It is New Year's Eve. On Monday, which is January 4, we are doing our last Fated States phonebank for Ossoff Warnock with the indivisible team. It will be from five to seven Central, I will drop the link to sign up and show notes. And this is our last big push everybody. A huge number of voters have already voted in Georgia. I will be honest, last time we phonebanked, we talked to a lot of people who said, "I already voted." And so it feels great to just hear all those Georgia voters who have already done their part and maybe we'll catch somebody who hasn't. So if you are looking for one last way to turn this ship we call democracy around, we would love to have you with us phone banking on Monday night
Sarah MacLean 4:45 / #
And if you're in Georgia, vote your Ossoff. I love that phrase.
Jennifer Prokop 4:51 / #
It's actually great.
Sarah MacLean 4:57 / #
I wish there was a vote your Warnock but that's not a thing. Yeah, that doesn't mean anything, but vote your Warnock too. We love you guys. Happy New Year. Thanks for being with us through 2020 it really made the big a big difference for us to have you and to know that you were out there listening. And 2021, is it's gonna be great. I feel great about it. Me too. I got a feeling 21 is going to be a good year. Wait a second. Eric. That's a song.
Music Lyric 5:28 / #
Got a feeling 21 is gonna be a good year. Especially for you and me, seeing it together. So you think 21 is gonna be a good year. Could be good for me and Herman
Andie Christopher 5:50 / #
Drunk Fated Mates?
Nisha Sharma 5:55 / #
Me? I like it.
Sarah MacLean 5:58 / #
It kind of began with Drunk Mates. So, Andie Christopher, why don't you tell everybody what they won. Oh, wait, wait, Hang on. Hang on. Eric wants to check. Oh, okay. All right. We're good. We're good to go. We've been approved.
Adriana Herrera 6:19 / #
Thank you, Eric
Andie Christopher 6:21 / #
This group, I think minus Jen. Jen wasn't able to join us, got drunk a couple of weeks ago to celebrate all the Sagittarius birthdays. And we got to talking about some of our favorite bananas books. And one author that I think most of us discovered this year during the quarantine, is the prolific, the filthy, the bananas, Jessa Kane. And so we thought it would be fun to do a crossover Drunk Romance History/ Fated Mates episode about Jessa Kane in general. Yes. And so some of us are have read all of the Jessa Kanes. Some of us have read some of the Jessa Kanes. Some of us had read like one of the Jessa Kanes
Sarah MacLean 7:19 / #
New to Jessa Kane.
Andie Christopher 7:24 / #
And so we're coming together to just talk about our love affair with these with these books that. I mean,
Jennifer Prokop 7:34 / #
they really defy description in some ways, don't they?
Andie Christopher 7:37 / #
They really do. I mean, they're a shot of ID right into your veins.
Sarah MacLean 7:42 / #
On her website, I just went to her website because I wanted to be an actual professional tonight and have something to say about Jessa Kane. There is no information about her on her website. So whoever you are, thanks for playing! Jessa we love you.
Adriana Herrera 7:55 / #
There's a burner phone feel to it. And I love it.
Sarah MacLean 8:00 / #
Her website says Jessa Kane, and underneath it says "satisfying."
Adriana Herrera 8:09 / #
That's all you need to know.
Sarah MacLean 8:12 / #
That is a flex. She's like, I just have this is the word.
Andie Christopher 8:16 / #
Okay, so so we should all identify yourselves. Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 8:19 / #
Can I call it? Can I call the fucking group to order please? We've gotta do this thing. Okay, so Hi, I'm Jen ReadsRomance. And we are doing a Fated Mates Drunk romance podcast crossover. And we have a group of people with us. So let's have everybody introduce themselves quickly and say, if they think your commentary tonight is stellar and amazing, perhaps they would like to read your book. So tell us more about who you are.
Sarah MacLean 8:49 / #
Well, Jen, there's There are six of them. Okay, you're gonna call on them.
Jennifer Prokop 8:53 / #
Okay, I think that's best I'm gonna call on people. Ok, Alexis, you're first.
Alexis Daria 8:59 / #
I'm Alexis Daria. I write contemporary romance. My latest release is YOU HAD ME AT HOLA. and I'm in New York City. So you might hear some honking
Sarah MacLean 9:09 / #
Wait, and I also think you need to tell everybody where on the Kane spectrum you are...
Andie Christopher 9:16 / #
We need to know that.
Alexis Daria 9:19 / #
Due to the quarantine, my focus is shot so I've been having a hard time just sitting down and reading books lately, so I mostly do audiobooks. So I've only read one Jessa Kane book in full, but I've started a couple others and I have more on my Kindle.
Jennifer Prokop 9:33 / #
Jenny Nordbak, I think has done some audio for Jessica Kane and Jenny Nordbak's voice is like one sex on a stick. She's the wicked wallflowers podcast cohost, so I don't know if she's done all of them. I think she talked about what doing one maybe it's not out yet. I'm not sure so all of you who think oh, could Jessa Kane be sexier. [editorial note: Jen was wrong. Jenny recoreded a Brill Harper book on audio]
Sarah MacLean 9:56 / #
When Jenny reads it. When Miss Scarlet reads it.
Jennifer Prokop 10:01 / #
Exactly. So there you go. I can't, I don't even know if I could listen to it. I think it would, literally I'd have to like... well, you know, I probably could listen to it. it's fine.
Alexis Daria 10:09 / #
Okay, nice listening while I'm washing the dishes.
Jennifer Prokop 10:11 / #
See there you go.
Nisha Sharma 10:15 / #
Hi, everyone. This is Nisha Sharma. I'm back on the pod. My book, THE LEGAL AFFAIR came out in August and pre orders for my second YA, RADHA 7 JAI'S RECIPE FOR ROMANCE are also available. And that comes out in July.
Jennifer Prokop 10:35 / #
And where are you on the Kane scale?
Nisha Sharma 10:36 / #
I'm probably in the middle of the road. I have about, I've finished about five or six Jessa Kane books. And I have to clear my Kindle Unlimited list in order to get the rest of them. So right now it's very dramatic. I'm trying to figure out what I have to like offload in order to download more.
Sarah MacLean 11:00 / #
And this is the problem with that Kindle Unlimited list is you have to be like: am I really ever going to read that thing? Because I want to read HUSKY...
Adriana Herrera 11:08 / #
...or HEFTY.
Jennifer Prokop 11:15 / #
Again, they do let you check out Kindle unlimited books again, everybody.
Sarah MacLean 11:21 / #
But it does feel like Nisha and I are on the same page here, which is once it goes off the list, It's never coming back. Jen probably has a spreadsheet. She's been on, you've been on the phone with Amazon all day yelling at them about...
Jennifer Prokop 11:37 / #
I don't really want to talk about it. That's fine.
Sarah MacLean 11:40 / #
That's private.
Jennifer Prokop 11:42 / #
No, it just wasn't helpful. And then you just feel like you're gaslit by Amazon. And so I had let it go.
Andie Christopher 11:46 / #
It sounds less satisfying than my experience,m spending two hours on the phone with Verizon today just on hold.
Jennifer Prokop 11:54 / #
No, that's not great. At least with that, Because then you can do other things and then kind of leave when it's...
Andie Christopher 12:01 / #
no, I was I was peeing when Verizon finally picked up. So I had to run out of my bathroom.
Jennifer Prokop 12:08 / #
Of course
Andie Christopher 12:09 / #
running across the floor to get the phone.
Jennifer Prokop 12:11 / #
I know you introduced yourself, but I think you can talk again about what book you have out, and your place on the Kane spectrum.
Andie Christopher 12:17 / #
Okay, so I'm again I'm Andie J. Christopher. I am the host of the Instagram Live series probably soon to be podcast, Drunk Romance History. My latest book that I have out-- I put out two books this year, I'm very proud of that. NOT THAT KIND OF GUY came out in April. It is a workplace romance and oops, we got married. There's definitely banging, not as much as the Jessie Kane book. But there's banging and then I have a short, if you're still interested in a little holiday novella, I have a very dirty holiday novella called ALL THEY WANT FOR CHRISTMAS, which is a Snowed-in, MMF bang fest. if you're a fan of Jessa you're going to be a fan of ALL THEY WANT FOR CHRISTMAS.
Jennifer Prokop 13:03 / #
Well speaking of filthy Christmas shorts. I guess we should go to Adrianna, next.
Adriana Herrera 13:12 / #
Hi. Hello. I'm Adriana Herrera, and I write romance. So my release is HER NIGHT WITH SANTA, which is a very short, very dirty novelette about a lesbian, female Santa who hooks up with King Melchior's neice on a secret beach villa in the Caribbean.
Jennifer Prokop 13:36 / #
And a bag of toys.
Adriana Herrera 13:37 / #
And then yes, and a bag of toys.
Andie Christopher 13:41 / #
It's so hot. You guys. It is is scorchingly hot.
Adriana Herrera 13:45 / #
It is what happens with when I go into my head. When I go into my head, there are sex toys. And there's Megan Rapinoe.
Sarah MacLean 13:55 / #
I think Adriana knows this already. But this week, obviously we have we have been through Christmas in my house with the seven year old. And I told her that I read this book where the theory about Santa is that it's a family of Santas, and the current Santa is a woman. And she's like, "That's amazing. Tell me more." And I'm like, "that's all I can tell you about that."
Jennifer Prokop 14:21 / #
And where are you on the Kane scale, Adriana?
Adriana Herrera 14:26 / #
I'm pretty far into it. I just I realized that there's a few that I've missed. But I have read quite a few of them. I would say most of them. And I discovered her over Thanksgiving. It was very recent. I bought a new Kindle and got a KU subscription. And I had heard someone talk about her. Maybe it was one of you, I don't know who... I
Andie Christopher 14:51 / #
I think it was me, because I've read all of them and I just remembered I started my first one when I was still working in my office. So this was either like late February or early March,
Adriana Herrera 15:01 / #
It must have been you. I think we were chatting or something and it must have been Andie and I read one of them. And then I read a lot more of them. And I enjoy them. Like it's one of those things where some of the things, some of the elements to them are not particularly my buttons, but it's still so bananas. That I need to know what happens. So, yeah, I'm a fan.
Jennifer Prokop 15:32 / #
Fair enough. Okay, LaQuette, your're next.
LaQuette 15:34 / #
Hey, everyone, I'm LeQuette, but I write romance-- sometimes very steamy. Okay, erotic romance. My next book coming is coming out in February and it's titled Jackson. It's about a hulky, grumpy, Texas Ranger who falls in love with a sassy New Yorker who puts him in his place. It's loads of fun.
Jennifer Prokop 15:58 / #
And you are a newcomer to the Kane family. Yes?
LaQuette 16:01 / #
Yes. I've only read one at this point.
Jennifer Prokop 16:04 / #
That's okay.
Sarah MacLean 16:06 / #
Thanks, y'all.
Jennifer Prokop 16:12 / #
Tracey, what about you?
Tracey Livesay 16:14 / #
Hi, I'm Tracey Livesey. I write contemporary romance. My latest release was LIKE LOVERS DO, which came out in August and is still available. So go buy it. And just saying, I am new to Jessa Kane. During our zoom that Andie mentioned earlier, y'all couldn't stop talking about it. And so then y'all talked about doing this and I was like, I want to come. so I bought a Jessa Kane book. And here we are.
Sarah MacLean 16:57 / #
With your penis mug.
Tracey Livesay 16:58 / #
With my penis mug.
Sarah MacLean 17:00 / #
She came prepared.
Adriana Herrera 17:01 / #
I wish I had a penis mug.
Tracey Livesay 17:03 / #
I'm having a hot toddy in it.
Sarah MacLean 17:04 / #
So she came on brand
Nisha Sharma 17:06 / #
But that's not a Jessa Kane penis, mug, those are too small.
Andie Christopher 17:12 / #
No, a Jessa Kane penis mug would... go All the way around the mug
Adriana Herrera 17:16 / #
You could see it from space.
Tracey Livesay 17:20 / #
If you put them all together like an extension cocks, you know,
Adriana Herrera 17:26 / #
Extension cocks! like Christmas lights?
Tracey Livesay 17:32 / #
If one doesn't work, they all don't work, and you got to figure out which one works and then plug another one in, you know?
Jennifer Prokop 17:41 / #
Joanna Shupe.
Joanna Shupe 17:43 / #
Hi, I'm Joanna Shupe. I write historical romance. If you like Jessa's books, you might like the anthology DUKE I'D LIKE TO F, which I did with Adriana and some others. Those stories are bananas and very, very hot. On the Kane scale, I have read them all. I don't think I would have gone through 2020 without Jessa Kane. I'm just gonna put that out there. I just think they would have been a much different year for me had Jessa Kane not come into my life.
Jennifer Prokop 18:19 / #
I feel that. okay, Sarah MacLean.
Sarah MacLean 18:23 / #
I, Sarah MacLean, write romance novels and I read them and I'm on the "middle of the road" Kane scale. Here's the thing. I just looked at it, I just pulled up Amazon because like I said, all we know from Jessa's website is that she's satisfying and I can confirm it. But on Amazon there are so many of these books.
Joanna Shupe 18:42 / #
So many.
Sarah MacLean 18:43 / #
And like Nisha, I'm compulsive about my Kindle Unlimited list. So there's, I can only spare one slot at a time.
Jennifer Prokop 18:53 / #
Today, we were like, "who's going to talk about which one?" and I was like "yeah, whatever I read them all." I'm a 100 on the Kane scale and Sarah's like, "I read the one about the stepbrothers." And I was like, "that's like seven of them!"
Sarah MacLean 19:05 / #
No, no, I read the one where there are two stepbrothers! THEIR SUMMER INTERN, but then when I got on the website, there is also a HIS SUMMER INTERN, which is similar title but clearly different.
Adriana Herrera 19:21 / #
Not what you would expect.
Sarah MacLean 19:25 / #
Wait, what would I expect?
Adriana Herrera 19:29 / #
You would expect an office building? Yeah? Yeah? No.
Andie Christopher 19:36 / #
I haven't read this one.
Nisha Sharma 19:38 / #
Wait, what are we... this is like cabin in the woods.
Sarah MacLean 19:43 / #
Why would he need an intern in the cabin?
Joanna Shupe 19:46 / #
He doesn't.
Adriana Herrera 19:47 / #
He doesn't.
LaQuette 19:51 / #
You're asking for things to make sense. There's no logic.
Adriana Herrera 19:54 / #
He's a survivalist.
Sarah MacLean 19:56 / #
He's a survivalist who requires an intern? this feels Like a serious like workplace violation
LaQuette 20:04 / #
All of them are workplace violations.
Jennifer Prokop 20:13 / #
I'm gonna call it. I'm gonna run have to run this thing. Everybody we're just gonna let me do this, okay?
Jennifer Prokop 20:16 / #
LaQuette and Tracey, because otherwise it's gonna be nine people talking and Eric will be mad. He'll be like, "that wasn't fun. It's too many people talking." LaQuette and Tracy you have each read one. Which ones have you read?
Sarah MacLean 20:29 / #
Oh, and Alexis, too.
Jennifer Prokop 20:31 / #
Oka, so Alexis, too. I would like to hear about the people who are brand new to the Jessa Kane universe.
LaQuette 20:40 / #
I read HEFTY which I thought was super adorable. I will say that I didn't find it as hot as I expected considering all of the feedback I was getting about Jessica Kane. So I think I'm telling on myself a little bit with what I actually read.
Jennifer Prokop 20:57 / #
My theory actually is that if it's a Jessa Kane that's not about a stepbrother or a daddy. It just feels like regular heat.
Sarah MacLean 21:07 / #
Also HEFTY is about high school students. So let's all settle down.
Jennifer Prokop 21:11 / #
wait, no, that's the one about the model
LaQuette 21:16 / #
That was the one with the model and the bartender. I it was cute. I thought it was hilarious. His especially the hero's perspective I really enjoyed. Because it was really fun. It was really fun to get to read someone who's aware of their size, and not really apologetic for it. Right? Like, he gest caught, he's looking at her. And he's kind of questioning whether she's actually checking him out or not. And he's like, Nah, she wouldn't be after my thick ass, you know? And I was like, Dude, I love this. I love that he was so in love with his own, he was just settled in his own body, he didn't care. And the only time he ever seem to feel uncomfortable, outside of when she's teasing him, so to speak. But the only time he's ever uncomfortable is when someone, when the I guess you can't call them a villain, her. But the antagonist in the story, her best friend, is the only time that you see him feel some sort of insecurity about his size. And it's not because he feels that, but it's because someone else has that thought about him. And I think that's a very important distinction because there are a lot of romances that I've read with plus size heroines, not plus sized heroes, but there's always this thread of this person feeling like they can't be loved, or there's something wrong with them. Because they are plus size. And I love that he knew he was thick, he didn't care. And it was just and I love that she loved everything about him. And through her eyes, you get to fall in love with this man. And I think that's that's how you write a plus size person. You allow them to be comfortable in their own skin, as well as allow the person or people who love them to adore everything about them, including their 3x size.
Adriana Herrera 23:32 / #
Yeah, and I appreciate her writing plus size men because you never see never, never see plus, larger men in romance. I mean, the reality is that most people are married to larger size men. So the idea of both HEFTY and HUSKY. Like the heroine is specifically into their bodies, like they find them sexy. They find them attractive. But it's for and, and HEFTY, It's baffling to her that the other girls in the school aren't so into him because to her he's so attractive. And so
Andie Christopher 24:22 / #
I mean, what I really love about these books is how much emotion she packs it sometimes Yeah, we can pack into like 60, 70 pages. Oh yeah, like there's a lot
Adriana Herrera 24:33 / #
There's a lot of skill there like with HEFTY the the high schoolers. Like I'm like, Okay, these are high schoolers with the heat. It was a little harder for me but this romance
Sarah MacLean 24:44 / #
We should say they're both over 18
Adriana Herrera 24:46 / #
They both are over 18.
Sarah MacLean 24:49 / #
Very clear, very important that they are 18.
Nisha Sharma 24:52 / #
Do you know what I love about Jessa Kane? In these situations is that you see a lot of people try to tackle these issues. Or not even issues like these concepts in romance, and they skirt around it, because they're afraid of saying what everyone already knows. Jessa Kane is not afraid of just saying it and just putting it on the page. And I just love it because it feels so much more authentic. And so like the emotion is just so raw in it because she's just flat out just puts it all out there and I love that.
Joanna Shupe 25:28 / #
There's no fear. Of any topic, at any level. Any subject, any kink, no fear.
Adriana Herrera 25:36 / #
Yeah, and I think it's, and I wonder how how it is for her to write those books. Because it feels to me like I was really saying this about the novelette that I wrote, HER NIGHT WITH SANTA, was everything that is, I was like, here are my ID-list things. So let me just write it. And that just poured out of me because it was so satisfying and delicious for me to write about it. Because this stuff I love to read. And I find super hot. So I and I think for me, even the books that don't quite work for me in terms of the kinks. I still enjoy them because I can tell the enjoyment that was happening when those stories were being written.
Sarah MacLean 26:16 / #
Yeah, it doesn't feel the same way as I mean, we should say for those of you who've never read Jesse Kane, like these are shorts.
Jennifer Prokop 26:23 / #
They are! Oh, yeah.
Adriana Herrera 26:26 / #
It's a one hour read.
Sarah MacLean 26:28 / #
Yeah, exactly. And so you can really tear through them. I mean, I read like seven and a night one night. But the what's interesting about that is that it really does feel like she just sits-- I wonder, I mean, I wonder how long she actually, I wonder if it's just a one sitting story because it does sort of feel like she just opens up a vein and, there now you've got this.
Jennifer Prokop 26:53 / #
There's not a lot of attention to plot. It is really all about like emotions and about
Sarah MacLean 26:58 / #
Well the plot is twisty turny like this, the the stepbrother one. THEIR SUMMER INTERN, Oh, okay. You guys.
Jennifer Prokop 27:09 / #
Yeah, we talked about the cute stuff. No, I think we're like: yeah, it's kind of normal. Then You have THEIR SUMMER INTERN.
Sarah MacLean 27:17 / #
The Plot of THEIR SUMMER INTERN is this woman, that the heroine-- all her heroines, I think, somebody, Joanna and Jen, correct me if I'm wrong, but her heroines are always very young, right?
Sarah MacLean 27:29 / #
I they all get bred by the end.
Adriana Herrera 27:31 / #
Usually virgin, enthusiastically bred.
Jennifer Prokop 27:37 / #
You know what, she does do some virgin heroes, too
Sarah MacLean 27:43 / #
These two heroes are not virgins. Just to be clear.
LaQuette 27:47 / #
What I what I appreciated about the about HUSKY anyway, was that you have this hero who is and in most of our books, we read these books where the hero is so virile, and, you know, and his stamina is ridiculous. And this guy is just like, Look, I'm not gonna make it. It's not gonna happen. This is gonna be a 1-2-3 pump kind of situation. And I thought that was so refreshing that they weren't having this hour long love fest and that it was just quick and dirty. And I thought it was so hilarious that he was like, "fuck it. You can laugh at me later. But for the rest of my life, I'm going to hold on to this scene where I got to be with you. It doesn't matter that I only lasted three seconds."
Andie Christopher 28:41 / #
He made up for it like with the coat on the boardwalk.
LaQuette 28:48 / #
Still, it was great to read that because I think so often, we get caught up in the fantasy of the romance, of sex. And we don't really portray it always in a realistic fashion. Because, you know...
Nisha Sharma 29:05 / #
Let me tell you, that is not the typical Jessa Kane, the ones that I read it was like, Oh, this is what you have to deal with when you're sitting on a nine inch cock.
Sarah MacLean 29:22 / #
That's not realistic?
Sarah MacLean 29:27 / #
They're all the size of a two liter bottle of Coke.
Adriana Herrera 29:33 / #
Yes, I mean, they are for breeding. Um, so one thing I would say is there's this very raw. And again, it's a slice of America that sometimes, it's a little jarring for me as a naturalized citizen of the United States. I think... Like what? What always gets me about it, I was re-reading PREACHER MAN this afternoon because Andie mentioned it
Andie Christopher 30:09 / #
It's my favorite, it's my first
Adriana Herrera 30:12 / #
And I'm like you know
Sarah MacLean 30:13 / #
I'm so surprised by that, by the way Andie, definitely that's your Id.
Jennifer Prokop 30:17 / #
I'm pretty sure I told Joanna about Jessa Kane because I really... I remember Joanna being like... THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE? I'm in!
Joanna Shupe 30:25 / #
I'll be right back in two hours.
Sarah MacLean 30:30 / #
Isnt' PREACHER MAN , the one where he watches her through the window?
Andie Christopher 30:34 / #
Oh, it's five different books.
Sarah MacLean 30:38 / #
She masturbate during his sermon, too?
Andie Christopher 30:41 / #
She masturbates while he watches her through the window. And he masturbates outside.
Sarah MacLean 30:47 / #
And she's wearing like a white nightgown the whole time?
Andie Christopher 30:53 / #
A slip to get baptized. That's later she..
Adriana Herrera 30:57 / #
That's before we find out he's actually a mafia assassin. Her mom hires him to give her an exorcism
Andie Christopher 31:10 / #
on the edge of the woods in her Mississippi town.
Sarah MacLean 31:12 / #
I forgot about the exorcism,
Adriana Herrera 31:16 / #
There's an exorcism
Andie Christopher 31:18 / #
that he does with his mouth on her pussy.
Adriana Herrera 31:22 / #
Exercises that right out of her
Sarah MacLean 31:25 / #
I mean, they take the finger every one.
Adriana Herrera 31:33 / #
Completely up. I mean, I think that's what I find very, I think that's why I connect and I don't read a lot of like bananas bonkers super taboo stuff. I really don't. But first of all, I think it's because it's that quick shot, it's so short, I don't need to read 40 different kidnappings. You know, like, there's one.
Nisha Sharma 32:01 / #
That's my entire Kindle! Like all the kidnappings, me and Joanna, we're like, oh, did you read this?
Adriana Herrera 32:12 / #
It's not my thing! But if it's one short one, I can handle it.
Sarah MacLean 32:17 / #
But if it's a kidnapping on top of an exorcism on top of stepbrothers, then you're like, Okay!
Adriana Herrera 32:22 / #
But it's moving. It's moving. The momentum is moving.
Jennifer Prokop 32:29 / #
I really want to hear from Tracy and Alexis, who just look disturbed by all of it.
Jennifer Prokop 32:36 / #
Tracy, what did you read?
Joanna Shupe 32:40 / #
Tracey is like, is it too late to back out?
Sarah MacLean 32:47 / #
Tracey came With a cock mug, it's fine. She can handle that.
Tracey Livesay 32:53 / #
Um, I've read SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST.
Andie Christopher 32:57 / #
Oh, that's such a good one.
Tracey Livesay 33:02 / #
Okay. So I'm going to start off despite my facial expressions by saying like, LaQuette, it was not, It was a little tame for me. And that might be telling about me, but it was a little tame for my reading. And I wondered if, as she was writing, she delved deeper into her Id. I wonder if that came before the preacher book because I want to read that, or the Intern book. Like, I want to read that. So I don't know if that was like, progression.
Jennifer Prokop 33:38 / #
Ok, well I have a theory. Do you want to hear my theory about this? Yeah, yeah. Those of us that are that are Jessa Kane One Hundreds would like to bring people on board to the Jessa Kane train, but you can't start them with THEIR SUMMER INTERN, you have some that are like kind of normal-ish. And so that, okay, the beauty and the beast one it's fine, right?
Tracey Livesay 33:59 / #
I did I read something called SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST. So I don't know, like, what kind of on-roading do you like?
Adriana Herrera 34:09 / #
Yeah, the one with HIS SUMMER INTERN, with the survivalist on the cabin.
Tracey Livesay 34:15 / #
Okay, so SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST was beauty in the beast. And it starts off with her father and the villagers pretty much taking her to the forest to be sacrificed to the beast. And I have to admit that throughout, as I was reading the story, the soundtrack to the Disney Beauty the Beast kept playing in my head. So I kept imagining the villagers like: "he will make off with your children," with singing and torches and stuff. That was just that was just my mind. Um, and so they so apparently in the village, This is modern day, but it goes back and forth between modern day and feeling like the 1950s, I don't know. But anyway, so the village animals have been slaughtered. And so they have had this happen before and they say, it's a beast that lives in the woods. And so to appease the beast, so he won't slaughter their animals.
Adriana Herrera 35:23 / #
They need human sacrifice.
Sarah MacLean 35:27 / #
This is 2020 like modern, you're like... we need to sacrifice a virgin
Adriana Herrera 35:35 / #
We need to sacrifice the virgin.
Tracey Livesay 35:41 / #
She's the only one...
Tracey Livesay 35:42 / #
The only virgin?
Nisha Sharma 35:46 / #
If I was in that town, I'd be getting like laid in the eighth grade just to make sure that I wouldn't be...
Adriana Herrera 35:59 / #
I think maybe her dad gives her away. I think her dad is okay with it.
Tracey Livesay 36:04 / #
the entire village! He's like, yes.
Sarah MacLean 36:07 / #
So on the Id list, the Jesse Kane Id list is: dads who are like: "fuck off. I don't care."
LaQuette 36:12 / #
I think that's on everyone's Id list.
Tracey Livesay 36:16 / #
They tie her to a tree and leave her and, and then the beast is silhouetted against the night and he roars and it's very scary. And I'm thinking, "oh my god, is it like an actual beast?" Which I don't know! And it was not an actual beast. It was just a big man. He's like seven feet tall. Apparently, he's very hairy, he might need a haircut and a shave, but they don't do that in the book.
Tracey Livesay 36:54 / #
And, um, and so yeah, they have sex.
Sarah MacLean 36:58 / #
So she just had sex with this hairy beastie dude.
Tracey Livesay 37:01 / #
Yeah, she puts up a you know, she goes against him for the evening. But then the next day they just do it.
Andie Christopher 37:09 / #
Doesn't he go down on her first? isn't that kind of sweet?
Adriana Herrera 37:15 / #
He doens't really know, he's like: I feel like this would be nice for her.
Tracey Livesay 37:24 / #
he was very sweet. Very nice and sweet. He was not beast-like at all. He's very nice, sweet, and he fell in love with her and her long blonde hair. And so he was very sweet and as tender with the virgin as you could be when you have a 12 inch. 12 inch!
LaQuette 37:49 / #
Yeah, I'm right with you, and I appreciate
Sarah MacLean 37:51 / #
For the people who are just listening to the podcast, Tracy just pulled out a ruler, as though she had come prepared for this.
Tracey Livesay 38:04 / #
Like the subway footlong, and she's a virgin.
Adriana Herrera 38:10 / #
a foot Long
Jennifer Prokop 38:16 / #
so you enjoyed it but not as dirty as you liked. Okay.
Tracey Livesay 38:19 / #
Yes, yes,
Tracey Livesay 38:23 / #
They will be a scene, because there was a scene where she like-- I shouldn't be too loud, my kids are up-- but there was a scene where she goes down on him in front of these like evil guys.
Jennifer Prokop 38:35 / #
There is a voyuerism angle in a lot of them
Sarah MacLean 38:40 / #
there's another one like that and somebody I can't remember later one but it's it's in a cabin and he makes her dad watch it too. Yeah
Nisha Sharma 38:54 / #
And he puts her on the table.
Sarah MacLean 38:56 / #
And LaQuette is like, now what?
Adriana Herrera 38:59 / #
Which one is that one?
LaQuette 39:04 / #
Tell me which one that one is, because I cannot read that.
Sarah MacLean 39:07 / #
which one is that one?
Nisha Sharma 39:08 / #
It's called THE FIGHTER'S PRIZE and he races in to save her because the dad wanted to marry her off to this other dude. And she's like, "no I'm with you!" and he's like "well then prove it" and basically does her on the table, is like watch me claim this woman.
Adriana Herrera 39:25 / #
Okay, first of all, I just want to premise this by saying that her dad was total trash and sold her
LaQuette 39:31 / #
I don't care!
Sarah MacLean 39:37 / #
There's also one where the cabin one.
Andie Christopher 39:40 / #
There's also when where, shit, where the heroine gets auctioned off because she went to a party with her friends
Joanna Shupe 39:47 / #
SUDDENLY HIS! SUDDENLY HIS!
Nisha Sharma 39:49 / #
I love SUDDENLY HIS! that one was so good.
Joanna Shupe 39:55 / #
That one doesn't leave my Kindle. I don't ever return that one, that one is a perma-lend.
Sarah MacLean 40:07 / #
isn't there one more there in a cabin? And the he brings in a priest to watch?
Jennifer Prokop 40:12 / #
Okay, that one, listen is the one with Alexa Riley so it is no longer available on KU. You have to get that one on iBooks. Ask me how I know. it's like the Russian... Wait, I'd have to look at up [TAKEN BY THE RUSSIAN.]
Joanna Shupe 40:29 / #
Wait , I haven't read that one.
Sarah MacLean 40:30 / #
Oh Joanna get going. Joanna has to go
Jennifer Prokop 40:33 / #
In the middle of the wedding ceremony, She's whispering dirty stuff to him. And he basically starts fucking her while the priest is marrying them. And he says to her, he says to the priest, he says, make her my wife while I make her a mother.
Sarah MacLean 40:49 / #
Yeah. That is some weird shit.
Sarah MacLean 41:07 / #
Nisha is like, get it in my veins. Here's the thing, everybody that listens to the podcast knows that all I care about is when writers do like crazy, when they're like, I'm just gonna do it. We're just gonna see if this works. I love it. I will always buy your next book if you try that? That is some weird shit.
Adriana Herrera 41:26 / #
That is some weird stuff.
Alexis Daria 41:28 / #
What if we cross referenced all of the tropes? Like this is the one that has voyeurism in it and we can reference, okay, these are the five that have that and these are the ones that involve kidnapping.
Sarah MacLean 41:42 / #
Yes, Alexis, you're in charge now
Alexis Daria 41:46 / #
Some are gonna hit your buttons.
Adriana Herrera 41:52 / #
Now there's a lot of recurring themes in her in her stories, I mean, "enthusiastically bred" is in almost every one, Hello.
Sarah MacLean 42:01 / #
"I'm gonna put a baby in you" is like...
Andie Christopher 42:04 / #
or three in her! and I'm like, that can't be comfortable.
Sarah MacLean 42:07 / #
And then there's the firemen one where its, "I wonder which one of us is going to be the dad." And it's like, that feels weird.
Adriana Herrera 42:15 / #
that's weird.
Tracey Livesay 42:18 / #
What was that one called?
Jennifer Prokop 42:19 / #
And also in THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER and also THEIR SUMMER INTERN, I think has that "who's gonna be the father since we're both fucking her."
Sarah MacLean 42:28 / #
It's HER 2 PROTECTORS, number two, Her 2 protectors.
Adriana Herrera 42:32 / #
Her 2 protectors, So there's two possibilities.
Joanna Shupe 42:37 / #
He's obsessed with the heroine from the jump.
Alexis Daria 42:40 / #
The one that I read...
Adriana Herrera 42:41 / #
It's Alexis's turn. Eric is gonna have so much fun with this. Sorry, Eric.
Alexis Daria 42:50 / #
So I read QUEEN SIZED, which is technically like, maybe a fantasy romance.
Adriana Herrera 42:59 / #
It should be time travel
Alexis Daria 43:00 / #
Medieval times-y era in like, a place that is not a real place except people say Jesus Christ. Yeah, the guy's like "Jesus Christ. She's so hot."
Sarah MacLean 43:18 / #
it's not actual Jesus Christ?
Alexis Daria 43:24 / #
I mean, this book could be set on a reality show, it could be set at a Ren faire. Who knows where?
Adriana Herrera 43:32 / #
I've said this before, he should have been, it should have been time travel. He should have been a bouncer from Queens who goes through a portal and ends up in the medieval times.
Alexis Daria 43:43 / #
Yeah, and he becomes the king of this, like one kingdom, that's
Sarah MacLean 43:46 / #
in New Jersey,
Adriana Herrera 43:48 / #
in Hollis, Queens.
Alexis Daria 43:51 / #
They're having this like event between the two kingdoms called the joining, which is kind of what it sounds like. Celebrating the peace or something like that. But a lot of people end up hooking up and, you know, going off with each other and getting married after joining.
Tracey Livesay 44:07 / #
is the orgy on the page? is the orgy on the page?
Alexis Daria 44:12 / #
I know. I also felt like it was a little
Sarah MacLean 44:15 / #
Tracey's like, I got it.
Alexis Daria 44:17 / #
...other things that I've read or what I had been led to believe. But also the heroine is a virgin and she's trying to stay a virgin throughout the story because she is a farmer and she's got two sisters. She has to take care of them and she's like, I need a husband. We haven't had good crops last two years, and I need to marry a guy with money so that my sisters can be provided for
Sarah MacLean 44:39 / #
That's just sensible.
Alexis Daria 44:43 / #
And the king, he's like this giant warrior looking guy, of course. And he's walking with his friend and his friend is like, "you know, you really should think about getting a wife and if you ever want to talk about your traumic childhood, I'm here for you." And he's like, "No, I don't want to talk about my feelings. And I definitely don't want a wife. I'm so not into that--- Oh my God, Who is she?" And he's just been saying all the reasons why he doesn't want anything. And then he's like, "Oh my God, Who is she? I love her." So he goes over to her, and she tells him to drop dead. And he
LaQuette 45:22 / #
Does she know he's the king?
Alexis Daria 45:23 / #
So hilarious.
Jennifer Prokop 45:25 / #
She doesn't know, he just thinks he's too much for her, right?
Alexis Daria 45:29 / #
No, She's just, she doesn't know who he is, for one thing,
Jennifer Prokop 45:34 / #
Random man, I have things to do right now! Right?
Alexis Daria 45:37 / #
I'm here to find a husband. And I'm not gonna mess around with you going for a walk by the water. Sure. I know what that means. And she finds out he's the king and she's still just kind of like, Alright, fine, I'll go with you. And she's very much. He's like, "I don't want a wife. You're gonna be my mistress." And she's like, "Hell no, I'm not gonna be your mistress." But then he goes down on her and she goes down on him, like over in a cave. And then she's like, I gotta find a husband.
Adriana Herrera 46:10 / #
as you do!
Tracey Livesay 46:10 / #
it's compromising they're compromising already. It's...
Adriana Herrera 46:14 / #
....meeting halfway.
Tracey Livesay 46:17 / #
Yeah, it'll work.
Sarah MacLean 46:19 / #
So what I love about this is she's like, Alright, they have to have sex where they're gonna have sex. There must be a cave nearby
Alexis Daria 46:24 / #
A cave! They're like...
Sarah MacLean 46:25 / #
In my lifetime, I have never stumbled upon a cave
Adriana Herrera 46:33 / #
Everybody knows medieval times are full or caves, okay.
Alexis Daria 46:37 / #
The thing about this book was how how funny it was. So she tells him at one point like, well, Your Majesty, it's like you're between a loch and a hard place because you're there walking along the line. I laughed out loud.
Sarah MacLean 46:50 / #
She's funny. That's crazy. It was very funny. these books are great. They're very well written, she's a good writer.
Alexis Daria 47:00 / #
The first third was kind of out there. Like with setting everything up. There's not a ton of world building. But I think that if you like things like Reign or A Knight's Tale or stuff like that, where it's kind of old timey but not completely. You would like this.
Sarah MacLean 47:18 / #
You like men in armor.
Jennifer Prokop 47:20 / #
On Heaving Bosoms, they call it like England times. This world building is like medieval times....
Adriana Herrera 47:27 / #
they're wearing chain link and...
Sarah MacLean 47:29 / #
somebody eating a turkey leg with just their teeth.
Alexis Daria 47:35 / #
So they have a couple of these competitions for the women to compete so that the men can pick a wife.
Sarah MacLean 47:44 / #
And what do they have to do?
Alexis Daria 47:45 / #
So the first one is a pie pie baking competition. And she's like, I can't believe I have to make this fucking pie for these men. But it's a good ass pie. I was thinking, "This woman has better things to do than making a pie. She's busy." Her pie is next to this other lady's, who clearly needs help and is in more dire straits than she is. And her pie sucks. So she swaps her pie. And he notices that, he's like, "Oh my god, she's amazing." And then the other thing is carrying water, and she helps the woman carry the water. So she's very good-hearted. But from there on, It's just the emotions really get you. She's got these two younger sisters. And the king starts to really think they're adorable, too. And she's very concerned about what values she's showing her sisters, which is why she won't be his mistress. She's like: not that there's anything wrong with that. But that's not what I'm trying to do.
Jennifer Prokop 48:41 / #
One of the things that's really interesting about these books is in a typical romance setup, there's the seeds of misunderstanding are sown, And then the hero doesn't believe the heroine, right? But in these books, the hero always is like, "she would never fucking do that. So something else must be going on." Like, there's not just like, instant love, but there's also instant trust. And so there's one for example where I think it's called, Oh, THE PERFECT GIFT, where her sisters are like, "you have to go catch this really rich man and trap him." And she is like, "but I'm in love with him." Right? She falls in love with him. And he, and then they're texting her like, "have you done it yet?" And, and she is so freaked out. She's like, "I'm going to go see my sisters and tell them that I'm not going to do this." And he finds the phone with these really incriminating texts. And he's like, instantly like, MMMM, And he's like, "wait, no, she would never do this." Right. And so then he goes down and to prove his love to her, He fucks her in front of the sisters.
Adriana Herrera 49:49 / #
Yeah, as you do.
Sarah MacLean 49:52 / #
very reasonable.
Nisha Sharma 49:54 / #
are these young children?
Adriana Herrera 49:57 / #
Okay, no.
Andie Christopher 49:57 / #
they are evil olders sisters
LaQuette 50:10 / #
I have brothers and sisters this is not somthing that would ever happen.
Alexis Daria 50:15 / #
"So of course she doesn't want to be my mistress. Yeah, like, how could I have just asked her out right like that, that was so rude of me" So he goes, and he's like, I had a terrible childhood. And she's like, I feel so bad for you someday you're gonna find a woman you can really love without that. And then she leaves, because she's still not going to be his mistress. I would say the first third was very funny and a little bit silly. But then after that, I was just completely hooked in the story, because all of the emotional beats are there.
Sarah MacLean 50:46 / #
This is the crazy thing. Yeah, this is the wild thing about these books is, so HER 2, Her number 2 PROTECTORS, which is about a girl whose father was in the mafia, and her house gets set on fire, and she's asleep and like half naked asleep, and in come two brawny firemen who collect her and they're together when they see her. So they see her at the exact same time, right?
Sarah MacLean 51:21 / #
Exactly LaQuette, because we know that that's how it works.
Adriana Herrera 51:27 / #
It's like there's an imprinting that happened
Sarah MacLean 51:30 / #
It's fated mates. Every one of these books,
Nisha Sharma 51:33 / #
every single one of them.
Sarah MacLean 51:35 / #
And so the two of them [HER 2 PROTECTORS] So one carries her while the other one axes his way out of the burning building. And then they're like-- and the dad's dying. And he's like, "you got to take care of her." And they're like, yes. And so they just immediately take her to one of their houses and then all three of them are living together. And there's some kind of, swords do not cross in this, or the other one, well because they're brothers. I read both of the menages
Jennifer Prokop 52:02 / #
I will say, though, it is highly implied in the one with the actual real brothers [SUDDENLY THIERS] and then the step sister that they're crossing off page.
Sarah MacLean 52:13 / #
Oh, boy.
Jennifer Prokop 52:18 / #
it was too much for me!
Sarah MacLean 52:23 / #
No, but in this firemen one. So here's the thing, so I'm reading it and I'm like, Okay, cool. And then there's a little bit of, I wish she was mine alone. I wish she was mine alone Alpha douchebaggery. but then she's like, I need you both, You both give me different things. And then the older one is like, "I'll be your daddy and he could be your brother." And I'm like, "Oh, what?!" I was not prepared for this by the group! , but I'm gonna read the rest of it. I don't even know Myself.
Adriana Herrera 52:52 / #
That's me like 89% of the time reading these stories. I'm like, this is not okay. But I will continue to read this.
Jennifer Prokop 53:01 / #
Right? Yeah, sure. So
Andie Christopher 53:03 / #
we're talking about starter Jessa Kanes. There is one series that I think it's A PINCH OF SUGAR, which is a program and they're super filthy. When they're not.
Jennifer Prokop 53:20 / #
There's, um, they're all strangers to each other.
Andie Christopher 53:25 / #
They're all strangers. They see each other.
Adriana Herrera 53:34 / #
The series is called Lights, camera, Instalove.
Sarah MacLean 53:38 / #
I'm getting them.
Jennifer Prokop 53:40 / #
There you go. clear up some room in Kindle Unlimited.
Sarah MacLean 53:42 / #
Joanna? What about you.
Joanna Shupe 53:48 / #
So I think my, my favorite one, my gateway was THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE which I know is
Nisha Sharma 53:56 / #
don't be touching my book, Joanna.
Sarah MacLean 53:58 / #
It's a weird title.
Joanna Shupe 54:01 / #
What I love is like every title is exactly what You get. The titles are spot on. The covers are spot on. I also love that. When you read it... I will read a description of a Jessa Kane book and I'll be like, is that really? Is that for me? And then I'll start reading it. And there's another four tropes in there that are me that were not in the description. It's like she has a trope wheel in her writing room and she spins it and sees what it lands on. She's like "billionaire," done. Spin again. "Exhibitionism," spin it again, "daddy kink," done, spin it, done. And it works! So like, SUDDENLY HIS is my favorite, which is the one where she goes out with her girlfriends. They take her to a sex auction. Then they find out she's a virgin and she can't leave. So she's got to sell her virginity because she needs the money. And guess what? There's a billionaire who's secretly in love with her and he shows up and buys her, and they have to have sex in front of his buyer.
Andie Christopher 55:10 / #
His butler calls him because he's been following her.
Sarah MacLean 55:14 / #
Butler?.
Adriana Herrera 55:15 / #
Saturday night in Manhattan.
Joanna Shupe 55:17 / #
It's a PI. It's a private investigator that's trailing her. He's like, Hey, you got to get over here but
Sarah MacLean 55:22 / #
I'd rather it was a butler, honestly.
LaQuette 55:28 / #
Just thinking it's like Albert calling Bruce Wayne.
Joanna Shupe 55:35 / #
It's his Man, his man is there.
Andie Christopher 55:41 / #
Like, it could be Batman fanfic.We don't know.
Adriana Herrera 55:45 / #
It could it be his consigliere because it couldn't be a mafia boss. It doesn't matter.
Alexis Daria 55:57 / #
You know what I though, if she rewrote the same story on reality show or at a Ren faire? I would still read it both ways.
Joanna Shupe 56:04 / #
Yeah, absolutely.
Adriana Herrera 56:06 / #
Yeah, QUEEN SIZE is time travel. Tessa, If you're watching this. Give me the time travel.
Sarah MacLean 56:16 / #
Time travel! She just needs to add time travel to the trope wheel.
LaQuette 56:21 / #
I want An alien
Sarah MacLean 56:23 / #
[laughs] an alien.
Jennifer Prokop 56:24 / #
Alien seems destined for the trope wheel? Oh, wait, Nisha, you want to talk about THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE? Since it was brought up?
Nisha Sharma 56:32 / #
I took notes.
Adriana Herrera 56:34 / #
Of course you did?
Andie Christopher 56:38 / #
We know you. Of course you took notes. We love it.
Sarah MacLean 56:41 / #
Nisha's in charge always
Nisha Sharma 56:42 / #
I love THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE because it exactly exactly speaks to my Id. First of all, yes, there's obviously mafia involved. But it's, the the hero goes in for a massage. That his best friend got him for his birthday. And he has no intention of taking the massage. He's like, oh, she'll just play on her phone in the corner. And I'll sit in the corner and just work and we'll pretend that we got it because I would never turn my back to the door or be vulnerable. I can never be vulnerable. I love that. So he sees her, Fated Mates instant love. And he's like, will you grant me the honor of massaging you?
LaQuette 57:29 / #
from the waist down.
Sarah MacLean 57:33 / #
It's just a service. It's him being magnanimous and wanting her to have pleasure. That's it has nothing to do with him. Yeah.
Nisha Sharma 57:41 / #
He gives her, he's like, I'll give you whatever money you want. And she's like, okay,
Andie Christopher 57:47 / #
To massage her!
Alexis Daria 57:50 / #
And a massage.
Nisha Sharma 57:51 / #
Wait, what?.
Alexis Daria 57:52 / #
She's getting money and a massage?
Nisha Sharma 57:54 / #
She's getting money and a massage... on her vagina.
Tracey Livesay 58:00 / #
that's a Massage
Nisha Sharma 58:01 / #
It is obviously orgasmic and she's a virgin. And she's like, "if this is what I've been missing, and you know, obviously, yes, let's go all the way." And fabulous because Jessa Kane, she writes in the story this one line that I kind of think epitomizes a lot of the way that she uses language across all of her books, which is "I say the things that I say to shock her into remembering me forever." And it's like, Okay, well that makes sense to me. Because the way that Jessa Kane uses language in a lot of these high tension / high passion scenes is very much shock value and I 100% remember it. It's like, she calls a vagina a gash multiple times. And it's like, what?
Adriana Herrera 59:02 / #
it's very primal.
Jennifer Prokop 59:03 / #
Yeah, well.
Nisha Sharma 59:05 / #
I'm like, Oh, this is, well hello. And it's great. And then the best part about THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE is okay, instant love. Then of course she's in danger. And then he goes to her. He's like, ride my-- there's like a bunch of stuff that happens, romance things happen-- And then there's a scene towards the end where they've declared their love for each other. And he's like, "ride me. I just killed someone for you." And she's totally turned on by it. And like, just score and she's like, "yes, you killed someone for me. I'm all about it." And then he's like "you have to call me your king." And she's like, "yep I'm on it. Yes." calling you King. And he's like, "I'm going to fill you up with your your tummy's favorite juice."
Tracey Livesay 1:00:03 / #
No, thank you.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:07 / #
Wait! Actually the word "Tummy."
Nisha Sharma 1:00:11 / #
I have to do a search for it.
Jennifer Prokop 1:00:13 / #
Oh my god,
Adriana Herrera 1:00:14 / #
But you know what? I was thinking yesterday when I was trying to explain to my spouse Jessa Kane. I was like, imagine if 80s movies had just a lot of sex. Like imagine Grease with a ton of boning. Shit is happening, a crazy ass thing is happening, like there's a car coming down from the sky. Oh, there's Frankie Valli. And then there's...
Nisha Sharma 1:00:38 / #
She actually uses the word "Tummy" like I highlighted it. It's "eat it all up. There you go gorgeous. Take it down. Let it work its magic in your tummy."
Tracey Livesay 1:00:50 / #
That's not how it works.
Nisha Sharma 1:00:57 / #
at the end, the last line of the book, in the epilogue is she tells him "breed me, my king."
Adriana Herrera 1:01:06 / #
But hey, let's be honest. What is this be exactly, Let's say, how Sonny Corleone would be with his mistress?
Adriana Herrera 1:01:17 / #
This is literally what Sonny...
LaQuette 1:01:22 / #
He would have more finesse.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:26 / #
No. Sonny would!?
LaQuette 1:01:30 / #
He was very crude, but he was he wasn't that corny is what I'm saying.
Sarah MacLean 1:01:35 / #
He would never say "tummy." Sonny Corleone would not say tummy.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:40 / #
He would not say "tummy." that would be Fredo.
LaQuette 1:01:48 / #
Fredo, yes.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:49 / #
Oh, okay. Great. This is Fredo's story.
Jennifer Prokop 1:01:52 / #
I will say, if you are ever are unsure of how to define "daddy" for someone Jessa Kane has done it for us in the book HIS PRIZE PUPIL. I literally, when I read this, and I was like, "I'm gonna go ahead and highlight this because if I ever need to describe to anybody I will." So she's of course about to sell her virginity, same dealeo, right? She goes into this room, and the madam is giving her essentially a crash course in Daddy, and she is like, what is this gonna mean? And so Estelle, that's the madam says, "Look dear. I don't have time for a long psychology lesson. So here's the condensed version. A father is an accountant in a sweater vest who yawns through her dance recitals. A daddy pulls your hair, fucks you on your hands and knees, then buys you a pretty necklace. There's a difference. You're allowed to enjoy it."
Sarah MacLean 1:02:42 / #
That's a great line.
Andie Christopher 1:02:43 / #
I'm addending that to the definition of stern brunch Daddy, a Daddy who buys your brunch? And then does the rest of that. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 1:02:58 / #
But I was like, there it is, right there. I mean, so this is like, someone who is very in touch with exactly what it is. Like when we, especially those tropes because there really is a core story here. Or there's several of them, I think, but a lot of it is just like, like the Fated Mates instant lust. Like we will instantly both fall in love with each other. Nothing will stand in our way
Sarah MacLean 1:03:25 / #
I have questions about MY HUSBAND, MY STALKER, which I have not read
Andie Christopher 1:03:31 / #
I read that.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:31 / #
Largely because the title freaks me out.
Joanna Shupe 1:03:35 / #
Yeah, but on Amazon It has the most reviews of any of her books, that is the most highly reviewed.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:44 / #
So tell me about it, Joanne Shupe.
Jennifer Prokop 1:03:53 / #
Okay, this one, again, I was like, I'm gonna read them all. Because I know that even if I'm like, "there's no fucking way!" I'm gonna be like, "Alright, it was fine." He is, he saw her on TV, I think. And instantly Of course, fell in love with her.
Sarah MacLean 1:04:08 / #
Yep.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:09 / #
And what is... then he essentially finds a way to essentially meet her. And marry, He meets her and marries her.
Joanna Shupe 1:04:19 / #
He tells her he's an insurance salesman or something.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:22 / #
Yeah, exactly. And, and really, he's a hitman, I think right? And so I was like, he's a cop?
Adriana Herrera 1:04:28 / #
That was a TV show in the 80s.
Sarah MacLean 1:04:31 / #
They are always also a hitman. All of them are also a hitman.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:35 / #
That's it. This woman [Jessa Kane] is definitely my age, these 80s tropes are really in their heart. Yes. So essentially, he dates her under this assumed identity and marries her. And she doesn't realize that he essentially kind of stalked her, like he fell in love with her from afar. And then when she goes off to work and does her things during the day if he does not have any assassinations planned, he will instead follow her around and keep an eye on her.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:17 / #
Can we just, I wish that the people listening could see Jen face, because she's got her full on middle school teacher. Right now as she's talking about this Hitman stalker.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:31 / #
I know, I'm like and then the symbolism is...
Sarah MacLean 1:05:35 / #
she's like animals are symbols.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:36 / #
All animals are gonna fall in love with you.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:41 / #
I would really like to talk about THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:48 / #
Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 1:05:49 / #
Look at Nisha! Yeah!
Joanna Shupe 1:05:51 / #
that's a good one.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:53 / #
My favorites.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:55 / #
I think it's the one that's, other than HEFTY, which I've discussed and I enjoyed very much and that was really sweet. THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS was so mind blowing to me, because it is so it's like, okay: you're telling me he's a kingpin, but you're presenting me with an angsty cinnamon roll. That's like, that's what I'm getting. You can tell me he's the greatest criminal mind in modern time.
Sarah MacLean 1:06:30 / #
Wait, can we talk about his name, which is Easton Brawn with a W?
Adriana Herrera 1:06:36 / #
Easter Brawn
Sarah MacLean 1:06:39 / #
Because name is destiny.
Adriana Herrera 1:06:39 / #
Who thinks of himself as the greatest criminal mind in modern history. And he is at the MMA fight in his box. I personally have never been to an MMA fight, so I don't know if they have VIP boxes, I assume they do. So he sees her, then asks his man to bring her up to him, which you know, checks out very 80s, very 80s, very 80s. I imagine him in a shiny gray suit. So they bring her up to him. And then immediately, you know, he wants her but she's,
Nisha Sharma 1:07:22 / #
you have to start with her passing out.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:26 / #
she passes out when she realizes it's him because everybody knows Easton is the greatest criminal mind in modern history. She passes out.
Jennifer Prokop 1:07:37 / #
She read a profile of him from New York magazine or something.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:40 / #
She passes out?
Sarah MacLean 1:07:41 / #
Wait, she read a profile of him.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:44 / #
Everybody knows. Everybody knows him.
Sarah MacLean 1:07:47 / #
I don't know, Jen. It all feels plausible.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:50 / #
He's from the underworld, but everybody knows him. Everybody knows about him. and he's so handsome too. Like, he should not be this... anyway. So she goes up, she passes out then you know he wants to fuck her of course. But then she tells him she's a virgin. So he was like, Well, let me take you out on a quick date first.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:14 / #
Somebody should buy you dinner.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:16 / #
I don't want to take your flower without buying you dinner. So they go and they get in the car.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:22 / #
What a gentleman!
Andie Christopher 1:08:24 / #
Do they unshell the lobster while they're still on the way to the restaurant?
Adriana Herrera 1:08:30 / #
On the way to the date, she's like, "oh, shoot, my sister. My dad sold her. So if the one guy wins the fight, she has to go with him. And can you find out who won the fight?" So I'm like, okay, but your sister like you left her? so anyway...
Nisha Sharma 1:08:51 / #
It crosses with THE FIGHTER'S PRIZE.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:53 / #
The FIGHTER'S PRIZE, right?
Sarah MacLean 1:08:54 / #
That's where they fucking in front of the priest later?
Nisha Sharma 1:08:57 / #
No, they fuck in front of the dad and the competitor.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:59 / #
Dad.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:59 / #
Yes. Yeah. But I mean, in hindsight, the stakes were a little bit different so it was not... anyway, so her sister could have been sold but she was on a date. She was gonna check in.
Sarah MacLean 1:09:14 / #
It worked out fine.
Nisha Sharma 1:09:16 / #
they didn't like the date place. So they went to like her watering hole
Adriana Herrera 1:09:20 / #
her watering hole
Nisha Sharma 1:09:21 / #
She is like 18 years old, By the way.
Adriana Herrera 1:09:23 / #
Everybody knows her because her dad who's like a deadbeat who sold her sister was like a patron in this watering hole type pub. Everybody knows it's him. But they're like, oh, look how sweet he is with her. So I guess it's fine that he's the greatest criminal mind in modern history. He's dating this little, I can't even remember, she'll be 19
Sarah MacLean 1:09:47 / #
they are all 18
Adriana Herrera 1:09:49 / #
she's in college.
LaQuette 1:09:50 / #
She's 19 maybe
Sarah MacLean 1:09:53 / #
they have to be...
Jennifer Prokop 1:09:55 / #
The sisters is 18
Sarah MacLean 1:09:56 / #
Super fertile because the id list, I mean like the only thing that is on every one of these id lists is she's got to get bred and I
Adriana Herrera 1:10:06 / #
happen like, waiting nights.
Sarah MacLean 1:10:09 / #
I know anybody who has children is like no thank you
LaQuette 1:10:13 / #
I feel like there's just, Jessa Kane, we have to talk about some of these things that she's been writing.
Sarah MacLean 1:10:19 / #
But this breeding thing is really to me, we've never talked, we've talked about it sort of vaguely on the podcast, the breeding thing, but like, it is a thing. It is like a real kink. That like a lot of
Adriana Herrera 1:10:31 / #
like, the omega verse is all about being bred like, yeah, it's literally millions of people read these.
Jennifer Prokop 1:10:42 / #
I'm gonna tell you I had to take to my bed when I had this realization. This is not an exaggeration. I read all these fucking books. And the one that is like a hardcore no go for me is the one where they're in high school. Now, part of this is because I have a son in high school and I was like, this is really fucking gross. And then I was like, these are the only two that are actually age appropriate. This is age appropriate for this eighteen year old to be with another eighteen year old, but I'm so grossed out by it, and instead I'm reading all the books where she is 18 and he is like 30 and then I had to like lay down
LaQuette 1:11:11 / #
You just have to come to terms with that.
Adriana Herrera 1:11:16 / #
No no HUSKY, their age difference.
Sarah MacLean 1:11:19 / #
What did you say? Alexis?
Alexis Daria 1:11:20 / #
In HUSKY, she's like, 21 Oh,
Sarah MacLean 1:11:24 / #
In QUEEN SIZED, she's 21. She's practically on the shelf.
Alexis Daria 1:11:27 / #
An old lady.
Adriana Herrera 1:11:29 / #
She's a
Sarah MacLean 1:11:31 / #
spinster.
Andie Christopher 1:11:32 / #
So okay, so can I just interject? I'm just, I'm just sitting here thinking about after this pandemic is over, after we can leave our houses again, after I can date again. I'm gonna have to tell Adriana about my dates.
LaQuette 1:11:53 / #
Why is it that only Adriana gets to hear though?
Sarah MacLean 1:11:56 / #
Yeah, I mean, why can't we just do this?
Andie Christopher 1:12:02 / #
Adriana is gonna be the one who is like, wait, he took you where?
Sarah MacLean 1:12:06 / #
No, it's gonna be like that one time. Do you guys remember the one time
Adriana Herrera 1:12:10 / #
Where did he take you before you gave him your flower?
Andie Christopher 1:12:17 / #
the pandemic flower
Sarah MacLean 1:12:19 / #
No, everyone, there was a time when LaQuette was like I have something to say. And literally, it was like, Oh, I envision the video of that montage in the film of us all, like leaping over furniture to get to our zoom. It's gonna be like that, Andie, every time you have a date, we're gonna leap over furniture to get to the zoom.
Adriana Herrera 1:12:40 / #
We're gonna have to start a whole new texting thread just for your date.
Sarah MacLean 1:12:43 / #
Because we don't have enough
Nisha Sharma 1:12:46 / #
Can we get back to THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS where he basically is like, I killed for you. And she's like, I'm so turned on! Andie, just make sure it's not that
Sarah MacLean 1:13:00 / #
I've got to say though, that works for me, if somebody killed for me, I probably do the same. It's hot.
Adriana Herrera 1:13:08 / #
if you're dating, if you're dating the greatest criminal mind.
Sarah MacLean 1:13:14 / #
He better kill For me, he better kill for me. It's Chekov's Gun is right there on the table.
Jennifer Prokop 1:13:21 / #
I could come back from the dead. She would thank him after he killed all those people. That is just how it goes.
Alexis Daria 1:13:28 / #
Yep. Yeah. As an aside, I was listening to Joanna's book. What was the third one in the Uptown Girls trilogy?
Jennifer Prokop 1:13:36 / #
The Devil of Downtown.
Alexis Daria 1:13:36 / #
I was listening to the audio book without headphones on while doing a puzzle, and my boyfriend was in the room, and they were describing him, Jack?
Adriana Herrera 1:13:51 / #
He dirty.
Alexis Daria 1:13:52 / #
He was the biggest criminal mastermind in all of New York City. And he also spoke 12 languages and played the piano like a god and my boyfriend was like...what?!
Sarah MacLean 1:14:03 / #
I mean when Jack killed you're like, what can we do? Can I get On top of him right now? Yeah, jack doesn't have to say it though. I would know I'd be like, Jack I saw what you did.
Andie Christopher 1:14:16 / #
I need to see the Uptown girls on Netflix.
Adriana Herrera 1:14:20 / #
Oh my god. Oh, yeah, please, please.
Sarah MacLean 1:14:23 / #
Where do I sign that change.org petition
Adriana Herrera 1:14:26 / #
The only person I would let have Henry Cavill for that part Is you, for Jack.
Jennifer Prokop 1:14:36 / #
Another really weird thing I love about Jessa Kane books that has nothing to do with any of the sex stuff. A lot of these bitches have real interesting jobs. And I just appreciate that. There is one where the woman wants to be a roller coaster designer,
Jennifer Prokop 1:14:54 / #
You know what, this is fucking great because again, it reminds me a lot of 80s romances where they all have, they want to go to school, you know what I mean? And not all of them, sometimes they're just ingenues, but this one with the roller coaster designer I was like that is so nice and specific.
Sarah MacLean 1:15:10 / #
In THEIR SUMMER INTERN, she is a bungee jumping tester. She tests the bungee jumping harness.
Adriana Herrera 1:15:21 / #
You know Jessa is watching National Geographic and being like I'm gonna make the next one a bungee jumper,
Sarah MacLean 1:15:27 / #
But, you guys it all ties together, it's just very clever. She's testing the harness and then their evil mother, she rigs the harness and there she is just dangling off the edge of a bungee cord. Luckily, she has upper body strength for days, able to hang on and twist herself into it like an aerialist. And then they pull her up, and they're so upset and then they go fuck her. They take her home, they fuck her, they go after their mother who then like somehow escapes jail, or makes bail and gets out, and then finds her and tries to drown her in a swimming pool. But then, they get there, too.
Alexis Daria 1:16:08 / #
Which book is this?
Sarah MacLean 1:16:10 / #
THEIR SUMMER INTERN.
Tracey Livesay 1:16:14 / #
I was like, it could be HER 2 PROTECTORS, it's all, it all of them. Are
LaQuette 1:16:17 / #
Are there any like relatives in this with the intern?
Sarah MacLean 1:16:20 / #
Yeah, two brothers! LaQuette, I know. I'm so sorry. I'm very gauche.
Andie Christopher 1:16:32 / #
I literally read these and I'm like, Oh, that's gonna be a problem for me. And by the end of the book it's not.
Sarah MacLean 1:16:37 / #
And then I'm like, sure.
Adriana Herrera 1:16:39 / #
You know what, I feel like there's just, first of all, and again, this is what I have discovered about myself with taboo romance. You give it to me, in short, short, small portions. I can roll with most things.
Sarah MacLean 1:16:53 / #
You can't put it down, that the trick. If you put it down, you're not going back.
Alexis Daria 1:16:57 / #
I was thinking about how we're telling a lot about these stories, but we're barely scratching the surface of what is happening in these books. And they're a dollar!
Alexis Daria 1:17:11 / #
99 cents or you can get it for free on KU.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:14 / #
In HIS SUMMER INTERN, she escapes and asylum! they've been keeping her captive!
Sarah MacLean 1:17:23 / #
WHAT! and then she becomes an author's
Jennifer Prokop 1:17:25 / #
No, she runs away and she stumbles across his cottage
Joanna Shupe 1:17:29 / #
in the woods.
Jennifer Prokop 1:17:30 / #
And he thinks, Oh, this is my intern.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:34 / #
And he's like, wait a minute, she's not but I'm not gonna tell her I know, because I'm really into her.
Alexis Daria 1:17:40 / #
Because now he's in love with her already.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:42 / #
He's imprinted on her
Alexis Daria 1:17:45 / #
there's a lot of cabins in the woods.
Sarah MacLean 1:17:47 / #
As a Life PSA, you should not be interning with a survivalist author in the woods. Like if you get that internship you need to not go
Joanna Shupe 1:17:59 / #
that's the unabomber right there.
Adriana Herrera 1:18:01 / #
Yes, yes.
Andie Christopher 1:18:03 / #
Can we talk about THE LONER'S LADY, with like the girl who went to her like, Oh, she was pretending to be this, young gay man's. She was a beard.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:17 / #
Right. Wait, it's her and her best friend.
Andie Christopher 1:18:19 / #
It's her and her best friend, going to visit his dad because he didn't think his dad would accept him for who he was. But it turns out that the dad knew [he was gay] and he was like, "that's cool, whatever." And but then the dad was like, but I want to fuck your best friend.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:39 / #
Yeah, and the best part is the friend kind of sees the attraction between these two and pretends to have a bunch of homework. So those two can get it on all over the woods.
Sarah MacLean 1:18:50 / #
Is this another Jessa Kane book that we're talking about? [it is! The Loner's Lady]
Adriana Herrera 1:18:53 / #
Yes. Yes. And also there's a lot of having sex on the grass.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:58 / #
Yes. Oh, God she can do anything
Sarah MacLean 1:19:00 / #
Very outdoors, against the house. against a tree.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:05 / #
Yeah.
Andie Christopher 1:19:08 / #
A lot of things that would chafe.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:10 / #
There's a line, there's a line in PREACHER MAN when he tells her, "I've come so many times against your house, like the wall of your house, I've worn down the paint." And I told myself, "the quarantine has done things to you Adriana."
Tracey Livesay 1:19:39 / #
It's not healthy.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:44 / #
Look at Tracey! It's not healthy, it's not.
Sarah MacLean 1:19:47 / #
Tracey is concerned about his liquid intake.
Tracey Livesay 1:19:53 / #
Also, they have a lot. There's always like there's so much
Adriana Herrera 1:19:58 / #
Oh yeah. Mmm, hmm. there's a very like Pornhub feel to it.
Sarah MacLean 1:20:04 / #
Like a sprinkler like a garden sprinkler.
Tracey Livesay 1:20:07 / #
A gusher. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 1:20:12 / #
A friend of mine read some romance for the first time and she was like, there's a lot of really weird things about romance like, but one is the idea that like individual jets of sperm can be felt.
Adriana Herrera 1:20:28 / #
we roll with it.
Andie Christopher 1:20:31 / #
LaQuette is Done with all of us. She's like,
Sarah MacLean 1:20:36 / #
I would like my voice removed, my track removed.
Adriana Herrera 1:20:41 / #
Take My square out.
Sarah MacLean 1:20:43 / #
LaQuette is president of RWA
LaQuette 1:20:46 / #
I am not the president of RWA, I am the president elect of RWA
LaQuette 1:20:52 / #
either way, If you like it, I love it.
LaQuette 1:20:55 / #
I don't you know, I don't yuck on other people's yum.
Jennifer Prokop 1:20:59 / #
Back when we did the pegging episode, Sarah. Yeah. I just feel like maybe this is like our New Year's plan is
Sarah MacLean 1:21:10 / #
Oh, well, this is what I was gonna say. Right? Well, yeah, we we are putting this episode out on New Year's Eve as like, last year, we did pegging on New Year's Eve and we put it out a little early on New Year's Eve. So this year, we'll do the same and it'll be like the fun kind of raunchy episode for New Year's Eve, but it was really fun. And maybe we just have this crew back every year.
Joanna Shupe 1:21:34 / #
I don't think Jessa has pegging on the trope wheel.
Andie Christopher 1:21:37 / #
She doesn't!
Adriana Herrera 1:21:39 / #
She should put it in.
Nisha Sharma 1:21:40 / #
Yeah, I want to call her and tell her aliens and pegging
Sarah MacLean 1:21:43 / #
time travel pegging. I'd have
Adriana Herrera 1:21:47 / #
Barbs. pegging aliens.
Alexis Daria 1:21:50 / #
I thought QUEEN SIZE was gonna go there because she was like, can't get my virginity because I got to participate in the stupid wife auction. And like, they kind of like skirted around that like, oh, maybe this, but like they didn't do that they did something else instead.
Adriana Herrera 1:22:06 / #
I mean, if she needs to take it to pegging, she should just take it and normalize it
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:14 / #
it's 2021 So yeah, that's, I guess. Okay.
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:18 / #
And so we have time travel , pegging , aliens , Barbs, those go together.What else?
Sarah MacLean 1:22:24 / #
Wait, can I ask the teacher one is HIS PRIZE PUPIL but they're not really teacher student.
Joanna Shupe 1:22:29 / #
So they are.
Andie Christopher 1:22:30 / #
they eventually are. Yeah.
Joanna Shupe 1:22:33 / #
Not at first
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:33 / #
She's taking a photography class from him. And he is her
Joanna Shupe 1:22:37 / #
she's got to sell her virginity. So she ends up at the town, Like madam's, you know, place.
Sarah MacLean 1:22:45 / #
every town has a madam.
LaQuette 1:22:47 / #
It's Always transactional, like why?
Adriana Herrera 1:22:55 / #
I honestly think Jessa has her ID list, laminated and on the wall of her desks. And it's like, it's like 10 things and that's what she's doing.
Jennifer Prokop 1:23:07 / #
It's like a deck of cards and she just shuffles.
Alexis Daria 1:23:09 / #
So that's all of our homework assignment is to like print out our ID list.
Joanna Shupe 1:23:13 / #
Yeah, make me into a wheel.
Adriana Herrera 1:23:17 / #
I don't have a wheel but I might do that. That's a good idea.
Joanna Shupe 1:23:27 / #
For whatever you come up with, take three or four of them, make them work somehow
Sarah MacLean 1:23:32 / #
that moment when you get stuck at the end of a chapter and you're like what comes next just spin the wheel done.
Nisha Sharma 1:23:38 / #
So for...
Sarah MacLean 1:23:39 / #
virginity sale
Nisha Sharma 1:23:41 / #
I think what we should do is we should get our ID list together and create summaries of stories and in 2021 be like, is this a Jessa Kane book or not? Or is that like part of Nisha's ID?
Sarah MacLean 1:23:54 / #
Yes, very fun. Anyway, we hope that Jessa Kane, This episode was really done out of love. Jessa if you are listening, we really do love you and we're we think that you're fabulous. If you've never read a Jessa Kane book, you can get them all on Kindle Unlimited, except for the one where they fuck in front of a priest, which you have to get on iBooks.
Sarah MacLean 1:24:26 / #
Sorry, what did you say Jen?
Jennifer Prokop 1:24:29 / #
There is a second Jessa Kane / Alexa Riley crossover book that is also available on iBooks only because Alexa Riley, you know,
Sarah MacLean 1:24:36 / #
isn't in Kindle so you can do that. They are all on Kindle Unlimited, but you don't have to have Kindle unlimited. You can also buy them for 99 cents a pop on your Kindle.
Jennifer Prokop 1:24:51 / #
This is like, you know, deplatforming of certain Jessa Kane books out of your Kindle unlimited library. They just stay there forever. Yeah, I believe
Andie Christopher 1:25:01 / #
These books literally became a part of my soul during quarantine. I mean they probably really are really going to send me to hell.
Andie Christopher 1:25:10 / #
but we are also
Adriana Herrera 1:25:16 / #
There's no Hell in Jessa Kane's universe.
Sarah MacLean 1:25:18 / #
No, no, no. We are releasing this early on New Year's Eve. So if you have nothing to do this New Year's Eve if you are in your house quarantining and being safe, we hope you are being safe and everybody's being healthy and wearing their masks and if you're in your house and you're looking for something to do, you can read like five or 10 of these tonight.
Andie Christopher 1:25:42 / #
Charge your Lelo vibrators before you download.
Nisha Sharma 1:25:49 / #
Plug everything in, sanitize, please.
Adriana Herrera 1:25:55 / #
Be sanitar!
Tracey Livesay 1:25:57 / #
I just went Oh boy.
Sarah MacLean 1:26:00 / #
No, this has been Andie Christopher and Joanna Shoop and Alexis Daria and Nisha Sharma and Tracey Livesey and LaQuette and Adriana Herrera. I'm Sarah MacLean. Jen is Jen reads romance. And this has been a very special episode of drunk romance history and Fated Mates, watch drunk romance history at Andie's Instagram feed. Andie, where can people find you?
Adriana Herrera 1:26:28 / #
ATauthor AndieJ. Almost everyone on this chat has been on drunk romance history. Joanna is scheduled in January, Alexis, we're still putting you down. You're gonna get Valentine's Day just so you know.
Alexis Daria 1:26:45 / #
I still have to pick a book.
Sarah MacLean 1:26:47 / #
But we will put on show notes for Fated Mates. We will put links to everybody's drunk romance history. We'll put links to everybody's website so that you can find all these people in their amazing books. These are some of our favorite people. And we are so excited. Thank you all for making time for us this week on a holiday week.
Jennifer Prokop 1:27:05 / #
Yeah. I'm gonna get off the phone and we're gonna make the Jessa Kane trope wheel, have you have that. And then to help us with the making the spreadsheet pretty and that's all going to be amazing.
Sarah MacLean 1:27:17 / #
And you can find us at Fated mates.net and Happy New Year everyone makes 2021
S03.14: Our 100th Episode! Fated Mates Live
ONE HUNDRED EPISODES!
You’ve seen us through Immortals After Dark, through Books that Blooded Us, and through a presidential election, so if there was any doubt that you’re stuck with us, put that right out of your mind! We love you so much for listening…and we hope you have as much fun listening to this episode as we had recording it!
Thanks to Tracey Livesay, Andie J Christopher, Kate Clayborn, Christina Lauren, Adriana Herrera, Nisha Sharma and Joanna Shupe for joining us, and to Steve Ammidown for popping in to say hi!
Next week, we have an interstitial coming, and the following week, we’re back on read alongs with Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game! Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
In between when we recorded and when you're listening, something great happened.
How did Hollywood Squares work? What did the theme song sound like? What does Whoopi Goldberg have to do with it?
Fated States will be back! One of our dedicated phone bankers and the head of the OSRBC-IAD book discussion, Caroline, had an amazing experience when she was phone banking the week before the election. And we are not at all jealous about her amazing gift basket from Kresley Cole!
Check out Milla Vane on the Wicked Wallflowers podcast.
Andie Christopher hosts Drunk Romance History on her Instagram feed every Saturday and it’s hilarious. Sarah joined her Saturday after a full day of Election drinking to talk Suddenly You.
Do you know the book where a wave causes accidental penetration for a couple on a beach? NEITHER DO WE!
Here’s the link to all the slides for Fuck, Marry, Kill and Would Derek Craven. And here are all the Title Smash slides.
We invented a holiday. No big.
We love Philadelphia. Gritty was an unexpected hero of the 2020 election. Now you know all about the Philadelphia Left.
The Danielle Steele thread from Steve Ammidown at the Browne Pop Culture Library.
We really need to talk about the 80s blockbusters The Thorn Birds, Clan of the Cave Bear, and Flowers in the Attic (and powdered donuts).
It was Buffy and Spike in the mausoleum, not Buffy and Angel.
We can't find the TikTok of Paul Rudd and his son, but instead we'll discuss if anyone knows where Michael J. Fox got his cloning machine?
We’ll leave you to contemplate the whole “hero pooping” theory on your own, but we all know for sure that Elvis poops.
S03.12: The Immigrant Story and Joy in Romance with Adriana Herrera
The fabulous Adriana Herrera is here for her fourth time to talk about Joy! We had a great time with one of the greatest people this week — talking about the American immigrant experience, how hope and bravery make for beautiful love stories, and listing a huge number of books that we love.
IMPORTANT UPDATE: Next Thursday, November 5th, we’ll be recording our 100th Episode LIVE on Zoom, and we want you to be there! Join us and special guests, for games, laughter, romance recommendations, and as much joy as you can handle. Come on…you know you want something to look forward to next week! Let it be this! Sign up here.
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome back, Adriana Herrera! She’s been on a few times so far: Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night, the food romance episode, and she and Jen talked about trauma in romance. This week, her March 2020 release American Sweethearts appeared on the Publisher’s Weekly Best of 2020 List.
Normalize pegging at all costs.
If you’re going to come to the phone bank this weekend dressed as a romance heroine, might we suggest you drape a mantilla over your head and carry a pistol? You’ll be a dead ringer for Jessica Trent from Lord of Scoundrels. Sarah was on a panel with Loretta Chase a few weeks ago, and I guess the only blessing of these Zoom times is watching these things online. IS THERE A LINK TO THIS?
Adriana has written a few pieces about immigration in romance, one for Bustle and one for Remezcla.
Just a quick primer, because we didn’t clarify these definitions on the podcast and it’s complicated, because both terms are widely used to describe the same group of people--American-born children of immigrants. While Sarah grew up thinking of herself as "first-generation," many modern academics & the Census label her as "second-generation." Here's a cool article on all the terms, and how they've evolved.
Also, it’s useful to know the difference between push and pull factors that drive immigration.
If you want to read a terrific immigrant superhero story, Jen recommends a graphic novel she teaches to her 7th graders, The Shadow Hero by Gene Yang. She’s also really loved his recent release Dragon Hoops.
Adriana loves the podcast On Being, hosted by Krista Tippet. The episode with Ocean Vuong, author of On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous, features some interesting discussion of his own immigrant story.
We do not recommend reading American Dirt, but you should know the story of how and why it was published, some ideas about why publishing was so eager to sell this particular story from a variety of Latinx authors and thinkers.
When Adriana mentioned “the fun kind of thrust” she is referencing Jenny Nordbak’s best advice for finding a sex scene in a book: search for the word “thrust.”
Diacritical marks are symbols added to letters which tells the speaker how to correctly pronounce the word. In The Bride Test, the same words have diacritical marks when spoken by Esme, a character newly immigrated from Vietnam, but do not have them when spoken by Vietnamese-Americans. Also, language loss in the children of immigrant families is a well-documented phenomena.
The Worst Best Man has recently been optioned as a movie!
Take a look at the cultural iceberg.
Nigeria and SARS and what you can do about it.
Jeannette Ng’s piece, Critiquing Cultural Appropriation in Books That Are Kinda Meh, is about the pressure to research and how it undermines the lived experience of #OwnVoices authors.
Jen mentioned a piece in Kirkus called 100 books by Cynthia Leitich Smith, which argues “Before trying to write any character outside one’s lived experience, I recommend reading at least 100 books* by authors from that community. To start.” By the way, Smith is the author of a terrific YA novel called Hearts Unbroken if you’re interested.
Trujillo was terrible! Don’t steal Adriana’s idea to write a story about the Japanese-Dominican people who were living on the border of the Domenican Republic and Haiti.
Ethiopia and its capital Addis Ababa are fascinating places. Adriana and her partner lived there for five years. Also, the lions of Ethiopia are genetically distinct from other lions.
When it comes to holiday shopping, October is the new December. Sarah wrote a long thread of some of her favorite local indies that carry romance. Support them if you can.
S03.11: Comfort Reads with Dani Lacey
It’s comfort read week! What makes a comfort read, why do we turn to them, what do we want from them, and why on earth do blue aliens fit the bill?! This week, we all need a comfort read, and we’re joined by Dani Lacey, host of Ice Planet Pod and Black Chick Lit Podcast, to talk about all things comfort reads!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 5 this Saturday, October 24th at 3pm Eastern to call South Carolina! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Dani Lacey, host of Ice Planet Pod and Black Chick Lit podcast. Black Chick Lit is a podcast Dani hosts with her friend Mollie, and the focus is books by and about Black women. Ice Planet Pod has different guests every week, and Jen has been on and Sarah will be on!
Some of the specific Ice Planet Podcast episodes that Dani mentioned: she did one with her friend Mollie from Black Chick Lit, Jen talked about what would happen if Wedding Magazines existed on that world, and the latest release was with author Katrina Jackson.
All about Hoopla and the difference between Hoopla vs Libby (Overdrive). If your public library doesn't have Hoopla, it's probably becasue they can't afford it.
You, too, can have a banana phone. Don't tell Sophie, but Sarah's definitely getting her one of these.
In the Ice Planet books, the khui is the magic thing that “resonates” to tell the two people that they are a destined to be together--it also allows these shipwrecked humans to survive the ice planet, and also to speak the same language.
A couple of times, Dani mentioned “Harlow’s book, and the title of that one is Barbarian Mine.
Jen's friend Julie was a little worried about Chuck Tingle being sad when he released Chuck Tingle Pounded in The Butt by a Knockoff Book that Glorifies a Deadly Tragedy and Doesn't Prove Love is Real Then Accepting This as a Sad Side Effect of Making Wider Positive Impact as an Author, but the following week it was Mike Pence Pounded in the Butt by His Handsome Werefly, so he’s probably fine.
Magic Mike XXL is a pure, beautiful movie about men and their feelings. We highly recommend it.
If you’re a fan of the Stage Dive series, there was a new novella that was released yesterday called Love Song. It’s the book about Adam Dillon, a character that the band mentored in later books in the series.
How the Reddit forum AITA (Am I the Asshole) reveals the sexism of everyday life.
The two audiobook companies are Tantor and Brilliance, but with the huge rise of popularity in audiobooks, lots of audio in now produced in house.
When it comes to the Ice Planet audio, Dani loves the two narrators Hollie Jackson and Mason Lloyd. The Ice Home series, a spin-off of the Ice Planet Barbarians Series, has two new narrators Sean Crisden and Felicity Munroe. But Jen recently listened to a book narrated by Sean Crisden and it was awesome. So we think you should give the Ice Home audio a try, Dani!
Welcome to Night Vale is a podcast and also a book.
Books and Series We Mentioned: Ice Planet Barbarians by Ruby Dixon | Barbarian’s Mate by Ruby Dixon | The Boyfriend Project by Farrah Rochon | Grace Goodwin's Interstellar Bride Series | Barbarian Mine by Ruby Dixon | A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane | Sweet Ruin by Kresley Cole | Lead by Kylie Scott | Dreaming of You by Lisa Kleypas | Again the Magic by Lisa Kleypas | Forbidden by Beverly Jenkins | A Chance at Love by Beverly Jenkins | The AI Who Loved Me by Alyssa Cole | Brothers Sinster Series by Courtney Milan | Her Halloween Treat by Tiffany Reisz | Love All Year a holiday anthology | Halloween Boo by Sarah Spade | A Winning Season by Rochelle Alers | Hidden Legacy Series by Ilona Andrews | Jack Reacher Series by Lee Child | Welcome to Night Vale is a book based on the podcast |
S03.10: Mafia Romance Novels with Nisha Sharma
This week, as part of joy month, we’re joined by Nisha Sharma, author of The Takeover Effect and The Legal Affair, to talk about her favorite trope — Mafia Romances! We talk about why organized crime works in romance, fill your TBR to the brim…and share some real life mafia stories. Or, at least, Sarah does. It’s a lot.
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 4 this Saturday, October 17th at 3pm Eastern to call Iowa! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Fated States!
Join us this Saturday, October 17th at 3pm Eastern to call Iowa and make sure it turns up blue! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes! Sign up at the link, watch the video, and come hang out!
Remember: "Despair is not a strategy."
**Call Your Senators. Tell them you want "the McConnell Rule" enforced.
**Donate Donate Donate (if you can). We're thrilled to support "Get Mitch or Die Trying" via ActBlue -- donations to this are immediately split evenly between Senate candidates in elections
**Vote early by mail if you are planning to vote by mail. Be sure to check that your ballot has all the correct information, and is returned accorting to the instructions (this goes double for people in NYC and Pennsylvania).
Show Notes
Welcome Nisha Sharma! She is the author of some of favorites: the YA romance My So Called Bollywood Life, and the Singh family trilogy.
The Fifty Shades movies are lying about lipstick.
Maybe you’d like to learn more about organized crime in Rhode Island, Cleveland, and Scranton. Sarah grew up in Rhode Island and recommends you listen to Crimetown if you're interested in learning more about how far-reaching the mob is there.
When it comes to Capone, we recommend the Chicago tour (if life ever returns to normal) but not the movie with Tom Hardy.
Nisha mentioned a 1970s Bollywood movie. It’s called Sholay, and Nisha said, “Technically it was like this small village bad guy...think old westerns but he had like a gang of hoodlums.”
The big Western movies seem to pop up every ten years, and Brokeback Mountain was 2005!
The list of mafia romance from Goodreads is here, and the queer mafia romance list is here.
Does your gender determine how you relate to mafia movies, books, and TV shows? Or if you participate in real life?
Maybe you want to watch Weeds or Traffic and see some kickass women who are antiheroes?
Erin from Learning the Tropes is on the hunt for books that have heroines that are named Erin, so let her know if you’ve read any. Jen’s list is Ivan and an old Loveswept by Barbara Boswell called Sharing Secrets -- the hero’s name is Rad Ramsey!
Speaking of Ivan and Erin, while working on show notes for this episode, Jen discovered that a second story with these two is coming out in a few weeks!
It is MMA fighting, which stands for Mixed Martial Arts.
We did a deep dive episode on Kresley Cole's The Master in Season 1. Listen to it here.
Jen’s love of Russian mobsters started with Viggo Mortensen in Eastern Promises.
Sons of Anarchy actually does predate the MC romance. The TV show aired from 2008 - 2014, and one of the first MC romances was Motorcycle Man (2012) by Kristen Ashley. After Sons of Anarchy ended, the MC romance genre did grow exponentially, including books like Reaper’s Property by Joanna Wylde (2016).
Jen said the Molly O’Keefe book with the mafia guy and the secret baby was Bad Neighbor, but it’s actually Baby Come Back. You should just go ahead and read them both.
All about the myth of the minotaur.
The Oscars released a diversity rubric.
The big, bad Russians influenced American media for decades.
Online Advertising is the new cement shoes.
Sarah learned about money laundering because of pinball machines. Today's kids get to learn about it because of the President. Sure.
Books Mentioned in the Podcast
- My So Called Bollywood Life by Nisha Sharma
- The Singh Family Trilogy by Nisha Sharma
- The Professional by Kresley Cole
- The Master by Kresley Cole
- The Player by Kresley Cole
- The Bastard’s Bargain by Katee Robert
- The Marriage Contract by Katee Robert
- The Corruption Series by CD Reiss
- Ivan by Roxie Riveria
- Lies You Tell by LaQuette
- The Fighter’s Prize by Jessa Kane
- Baby Come Back by Molly O’Keefe
- The Devil of Downtown by Joanna Shupe
- Dark Mafia Prince by Annika Martin
- Luca by Theodora Taylor
- Judgment Road by Christine Feehan
- Turbulent Sea by Christine Feehan
S03.09: Christina Lauren on FanFiction and Romance: Blissward is How it Should Be
It’s joy month! We’ve got two of our very favorites with us — Christina Lauren is here with us to discuss fan fiction, romance, their romance origin stories, what they love about fic and how fic makes romance better! We talk about about a thousand books and authors, and do a little giggling too, so strap in!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 3 this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Fated States!
Join us this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin and make sure it turns up blue! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes! Sign up at the link, watch the video, and come hang out!
Remember: "Despair is not a strategy."
Call Your Senators. Tell them you want "the McConnell Rule" enforced.
Donate Donate Donate (if you can). We're thrilled to support "Get Mitch or Die Trying" via ActBlue -- donations to this are immediately split evenly between Senate candidates in elections
Vote early by mail if you are planning to vote by mail. Be sure to check that your ballot has all the correct information, and is returned accorting to the instructions (this goes double for people in NYC and Pennsylvania).
Show Notes
Christina Lauren has a new, delightful holiday romance out this week! Find In a Holidaze at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie.
When we recorded, the wildfire situation was particularly grim in California, and it’s still a huge problem facing many Western states. We hope you're all being safe out there.
A brief overview of CLo’s story from fandom to bestselling authors. The first of their published books came from Christina's fic "The Office," and was published as Beautiful Bastard. Sarah loves it a lot.
Wonder Woman 1984 has been postponed because of COVID, and according to the director the film is best seen in a theater. It is not because Robert Pattinson got COVID (He's back to business now). Sarah loves the preview of the new Batman movie.
Our love of Days of Lives couples Jack & Jennifer and Patch & Kayla is eternal and everlasting. (Ps. Jen's favorite scene is not in that video, her search continues.)
The Twilight fandom was vast, as we discussed in this episode. And there are important reasons why many folks are drawn to fandom. Last summer, Alexis Daria and Adriana Herrera talked about fanfiction and fandom on Instagram Live, and it's a great watch.
Christina and Lauren mentioned “canon” and “AU” and AO3 and livejournal and fandom bootcamp and maybe you want a primer on some fanfic terms.
Maybe you also need a primer on a cinnamon roll character.
These hugely popular romance writers came up through fanfic: Sally Thorne, Alice Clayton, Nina Bocci, Tara Sue Me, Amanda Weaver, Rebekah Weatherspoon, Helena Hunting, Daisy Prescott, EL James, and Ruth Clampett. Present-tense, stream of consciousness flow, and intense character work are some of the hallmarks of fandom writing, and some of those stylistic choices have influenced mainstream fiction in multiple genres, including romance.
Did you miss the community experience of The Submissive? Lucky for you, it's now available as a stand alone novel, and the next books in the series The Dominant and The Training also started as fic.
Christina and Lauren and Nina Bocci worked on the Fandom Gives Back fundraiser to benefit Alex’s Lemonade Stand.
Jen said she loves Beautiful Player, but honestly no one will be surprised that she got the title wrong and her real favorite is Beautiful Stranger. Just read all of them. You won't be disappointed.
The question of who owns these stories and the legalities of fanfic is so interesting, and specifically the history of Fifty Shades of Grey as Fanfic.
As promised, a list of CLo recommend fics:
Tropic of Virgo by in.a.blue.bathrobe (aka Kira Gold)
The Blessing and the Curse by theblackarrow (Sally Thorne)
The Best I Ever Had by whatsmynomdeplume
Mr. Horrible by algonquinrt
Creature of Habit by ezrocksangel
The Art Teacher by spanglemaker9
Summer of Salt by lolapops
A Murmur of Fire in the Vein
Scotch, Gin, and the New Girl by wtvoc
S03.07: An Interview with Julie Moody-Freeman from the Black Romance Podcast
Two episodes in one week! We are doing what we can to take care of you, Fated Maters!
This week, we’ve got Julie Moody-Freeman, professor, self-proclaimed romance nerd, and host of the new “Black Romance Podcast” with us! We’re freewheeling about the importance of oral history, Black romance, romance and academia, her life as a romance reader, her favorite books and authors, and her dream interviews. Subscribe to the Black Romance Podcast at Apple, Overcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting service.
(The audio on this one isn’t up to our usual standards. Sorry about that. We’ll do better next time. -Eric)
We’re back on our regular Wednesday schedule next week, and with a deep dive on Alisha Rai’s Serving Pleasure, a fantastic erotic romance. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Also, we had our first Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org this week — it was great and we loved seeing so many of your amazing faces! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 2 on Saturday, October 3rd at 3pm Eastern to call North Carolina!
Show Notes
This week, we interview Julie Moody-Freeman, a professor of African and Diaspora Studies at DePaul University. She's the host of the Black Romance Podcast. Julie wrote a chatper in the newly released Routledge Companion to Popular Romance Fiction.
The Black Romance Podcast is an oral history podcast which has interviewed some of the greatest voices in Black romance both past and present.
If you're interested readings some books of non-romance oral history, Jen recommends Voices from Chernobyl, Tower Stories, and anything by Studs Terkel. You might also enjoy the podcast Bughouse Square, which pairs interviews from the Studs Terkel Radio Archives and Eve Ewing interviewing poeple today. It's terrific.
The era of the mall bookstore--Waldenbooks and B. Dalton-- is over. But then again, malls might be over.
Vivian Stephens was the woman who revolutionized the American cateogry romance. You should listen to her two-part interview on the Black Romance Podcast, read this terrific profile of her in Texas Monthly, and listen to us read and discuss some of her early aquistions with Steve Ammidown.
Julie teaches a class called Romance, Women, and Race at Depaul. On the reading list: Make it Last Forever by Gwyneth Bolton, Gabriel's Discovery by Felicia Mason, A Duke by Default by Alyssa Cole, Forbidden by Beverly Jenkins, and The Brightest Day Anthology.
Although Season One of the Black Romance Podcast will be coming to a close soon, she listed some of the women she'd love to interview: Shirley Hailstock, Donna Hill, and Rochelle Alers.
Rosalind Wells and Francis Ray are two Black romance trailblazers who are no longer with us.
Next week, we'll be reading Serving Pleasure by Alisha Rai.
S03.04: Friends to Lovers with Tracey Livesay: Handstand, Hammock, and Horse
Two years in the making, we’re finally talking to one of our very favorites, Tracey Livesay, about friends-to-lovers romances! Ironically, for a group of people who say they don’t love friends-to-lovers, we sure had a lot of books to recommend! We’ll also peel back the curtain on Tracey’s feelings about Jamie Dornan, talk about the strangest places romance couples have sex, and get to the bottom of why this trope works so well when it works.
Sarah wrote a contemporary novella during a pandemic, and it's coming out September 15th! Preorder the Naughty Brits (an anthology with Sophie Jordan, Sierra Simone, Louisa Edwards and Tessa Gratton), wherever you get your ebooks: Amazon, Nook, Kobo, Apple or Google, or in print at bookshop.org.
Next week, we’re deep diving on Milla Vane’s A Heart of Blood and Ashes, which is a long fantasy romance. If you are a reader who needs content warnings, you might want to check out reviews on Goodreads.
Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Thank you, as always, for listening — we hope you’re having a great (and safe!) summer! While we’re apart, if you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Linda is keeping a calendar of romance events. You should subscribe.
The Fifty Shades movies aren’t well reviewed, but really who cares. We definitely recommend the unrated version if you have the money (editorial note: would we say "recommend?"). Some interesting facts about the movies, including the director change from Sam Taylor-Johnson to James Foley. The soundtracks for the movies are terrific, especially two Beyonce songs: the remix of Crazy in Love and the song Haunted. May all of your contract negotiations look like this. Tracey said “we see more of Jamie” in the next two movies, so maybe she didn’t know about his modeling career. All further 50 Shades questions should be directed to Nisha Sharma.
Unrequited love is way more stressful than friends to lovers.
In Like Lovers Do, Ben's ex-girlfriend is racist to Nic in a way that Ben doesn't quite understand, including a reference to Courvoisier, which Ben thinks is referring to an SNL skit.
Unsurprisingly, we adore Like Lovers Do, but we're not sure we can give it a better review than this one by LaQuette, who really hits the nail on the head with the promise of this particular premise (aka, hammock sex friends-to-lovers).
Martha’s Vineyard is for fancy people.
A New York Times article about Interracial romance in media in 2020.
Are bachelor auctions even a thing?
Bruno Kirby and Carrie Fisher are amazing in all ways in When Harry Met Sally, and the "pesto is the quiche of the 80s" scene gets quoted more than anyone in Sarah's house would like.
Up next: A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane.
Buy shirts and totes or buttons and stickers.
**Books discussed in the episode: **
- Like Lovers Do, Tracey Livesay
- Sweet Talkin' Lover, Tracey Livesay
- The Navy Seal's Christmas Bride, Cora Seaton
- Scoring off the Field, Naima Simone
- Trust Fund Fiancé, Naima Simone
- His Until Midnight, Reese Ryan
- Goddess of the Hunt, Tessa Dare
- My Fake Rake, Eva Leigh
- An Unseen Attraction, KJ Charles
- Josh & Hazel's Guide to Not Dating, Christina Lauren
- Beautiful Player, Christian Lauren
- Beautiful Stranger, Christina Lauren
Representation of Trauma Survivors in Romance: Adriana Herrera and Jen Prokop
Surely the silverest lining of the Pandemic is how many fabulous conversations are happening all around us. A few weeks ago, Jen had an incredibly important conversation about the work of romance and writing trauma and trauma survivors. You can follow Adriana on Facebook and watch the video of the conversation there!
As you know, Adriana is one of our favorite people…preorder her next book, Here to Stay—you deserve a treat!
Thank you, as always, for listening — we hope you’re having a great (and safe!) summer! While we’re apart, if you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Oh, and did you know Sarah has a new book out? Daring & the Duke is officially here! Get it at Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Books-a-Million or from your local indie.
We’ll see you next week, for the first episode of Season 3!
No Write Way With VE Schwab and Sarah MacLean
Since the start of the Pandemic, brilliant VE Schwab has been hosting authors from across the spectrum of genres on Instagram Live Saturdays at 3pm et for her No Write Way series, talking about books, writing, the world and whatever else comes at them. Several weeks ago, Sarah joined her, and they had a great conversation about romance and writing, and we’re thrilled to share the audio with you this week!
Follow VE on Instagram, preorder her next book, The Invisible Life of Addie Larue, and don’t miss her lives on Saturday afternoons!
Thank you, as always, for listening — we hope you’re having a great (and safe!) July! While we’re apart, if you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Oh, and did you know Sarah has a new book out? Daring & the Duke is officially here! Get it at Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Books-a-Million or from your local indie.
S02.45: Vivian Stephens' Acquisitions with librarian Steve Ammidown
It felt fitting that our final episode of Season 2—during which we celebrated so many of the vintage romances that blooded us—would be with someone we could fully geek out with! We are thrilled to have Steve Ammidown, romance nerd and archivist at the Browne Popular Culture Library at Bowling Green State University, with us today to talk about Vivian Stephens and early category romances. To prepare, all three of us read some of the earliest American category romances, and wow were they a ride! We’re talking women who work, marriage in romance, older heroines, the impact of Vietnam on 1980s romances, and more. Strap in!
We’re on hiatus for the next three weeks, but you’ll hear some great alternative content on Wednesdays — including crossover episodes and interviews we’ve done in other places. Thank you, as always, for listening — we hope you’re having a great (and safe!) summer. While we’re apart, if you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Oh, and did you know Sarah has a new book out? Daring & the Duke is officially here! Get it at Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Books-a-Million or from your local indie, or order it signed from the wonderful independent bookstore, Savoy Bookshop in RI, where she is through the end of July!
Show Notes
Welcome Steve Ammidown, the Manuscripts & Outreach Archivist at the Browne Popular Culture Library at the Bowling Green State University in Bowling Green, Ohio.
Vivian Stephens was one of the original founders of RWA and one of the most important editors in romance. At the Browne Pop Culture library, there is a special Vivian Stephens collection. Vivian was instrumental in bringing category romance to America and created the Candlelight Ecstacy Romance line, which put sex on page in a new way. She also created the Harlequin American line.
Vivian recruited a series of authors who changed the face of romance: Jayne Castle/Jayne Ann Krenz, Sandra Brown, and later Beverly Jenkins. Here is an early interview with Vivian about her work and the world of romance.
At the last RITAs ceremony--in the future, it will be the Vivians!-- there was a great video of romance firsts. You should watch it.
Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women was a 90s era collection of romance essays by romance writers to combat a lot of not great academic research on romance.
The late 70s and early 80s were a tumultuous time in American history: the return of Vietnam soldiers, a finacial crisis, and a huge divorce boom.
The mall bookstores, B. Dalton and Waldenbooks, were alive and well in the 80s. The buyers at these bookstores, including Sue Grimshaw, were powerful gatekeepers who had a great amount of power over the romance genre.
Kathryn Falk and Romantic Times and Flavia Kngightsbridge was a famous RT columnist, and at RT conventions there was something called the Mr. Romance Competition, and everyone who has ever seen it is like...whoa.
Marisa de Zavala, whose real name is Celina Mullan, also wrote as Ana Lisa de Leon and Rachel Scott. See more about Marisa on this great thread about her from Alexis Daria!
Entwined Destinies was one of the first category romances with Black characters by a Black author, Elsie Washington writing as Rosalind Welles. Although it's very difficult to find a copy of Entwined Destinies, but BGSU has a great photograph of Vivian and Elsie together.