S06.16: Happy New Year: Breeding Kink with Mila Finelli
It’s New Years Eve, and that means tackling some of the more headphones-in stuff in the Romance Pool, we don’t make the rules. Ok. We kind of make the rules, and this is the New Years Eve service we provide. Today, we’re talking breeding kink in romance with one of our faves, Joanna Shupe! She’s here in disguise though, as Mila Finelli, author of absolutely fire mafia romances, including her latest, Mafia Virgin, which features this particular trope and is a full on delight.
As usual, we start out giggling and then get serious as we try to get to the bottom of this very specific thing that seems to have had a recent resurgence in romance. We do patriarchy, body autonomy and heteronormativity, then get into the provenance of this particular romance trope, and finally to the but why tho part of the discussion with a minor detour about spelling. We net out at…well, just give it a listen. But for the love of all that is holy, put your headphones in.
Happy New Year, Magnificent Firebirds. We love you a lot and hope that 2024 is the best year yet. xx Jen & Sarah
Show Notes
Welcome Joanna Shupe, who writes mafia romance under the name Mila Finelli. The 5th book in the Kings of Italy series, Mafia Virgin, is available now.
Our New Years Eve episodes are always...interesting. Listen to past years:
2019: Pegging in Romance with Sierra Simone
2020: Jessa Kane extravaganza with Andie Christopher, Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera, LaQuette, Tracey Livesay, Nisha Sharma, and Joanna Shupe
2022: Omegaversity with Adriana Herrera and Ali Hazelwood
In 2021 we released the Season 2 Ted Lasso Roy Kent lovefest on New Year's Eve, but we were still pandemic-ing, so please don't blame us for the detour in brand that year. We came back with a bang in 2022, and now, in 2023, we're the full banana, as surely you can agree.
If you haven't listened to the trailblazer episode with Elda Minger, you should.
Joanna mentioned this article from Salon about young conservative men and the tradwives fantasy, and a recent CNN article about the phenomenon.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Meghan Quinn, author of He’s Not My Type,
available in print or audio at Amazon,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Lucy Morris, author of Snowed in with the Viking,
available at Kindle, Kobo, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble
or your local independent bookseller
and
Avalon Griffin, author of Unbound By Shadows
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S05.15: Omegaversity: Class is Now in Session with Ali Hazelwood and Adriana Herrera
As is customary, we’re celebrating New Year’s Eve here on Fated Mates with some of our favorite people in a fully headphones-in episode! Pour yourself a drink and pull up a chair, because Omegaversity is in session with professors Ali Hazelwood and Adriana Herrera!
Jen and Sarah get a crash course in this wild end of the romance/fan fic pool. We’re talking about mating heat (!), knotting (!!), butt babies (!!!) and loads of body fluids (!!!!). Seriously, loads of them. When we say headphones in, we mean it. Enter at your own will, abandon all hope, and bring in 2023 right.
Check shownotes for omegaverse recommendations, and enjoy, firebirds!
Thank you, as always, for listening. If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your favorite podcasting app, we would be very grateful.
Show Notes
Welcome Ali Hazelwood and Adriana Herrera, let's just call them AH2, shall we?
The New York Times article about the Omegaverse, which is where a lot of us named Jen and Sarah first learned about so much of it. You can also watch this terrific series of videoes from Lindsay Ellis explaining the Omegaverse lawsuits: Into the Omegaverse: How a Fanfic Trope landed in Federal Court and Addison Cain's lawyer e-mailed me, and it only got worse from there. Also, the video essay The Rise (and Rise) of the Omegaverse by Rowan Ellis.
After the episode went live, one of our listeners, Ana Quiring, shared her terrific essay about why she loves the omegaverse. It's called Into the Omegaverse: Fan Fantasies on Gender Difference Without Women, and it's a terrific read!
Ali recommends reading this quick Omegaverse primer. Or this other list of how the Omegaverse world exploded.
You should read The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller, which is a good example of how there are books out there telling the stories we want about the characters we love.
For your consideration: a list of recommendations of Omegaverse fics from AH2
A quick reminder to please check all tags and CWs as you explore the Omegaverse!
Ali and Adriana both agree that a great starting point for Reylo ABO is Can't Turn Off What Turns Me On by audreyii_fic. But there are tons of Reylo fics recommended by AH2. If you want ABO in the workplace + elevators, try Gonna Get Myself Connected by TourmalineGreen. If you want something sweet and fluffy try (I Want to See You) As You Are Now by walkingsaladshooter or your name (twine it with mine) by lachesisgrimm (olga_theodora). For an enemies to lovers Reylo vibe, Ali recommends like my heart longs for an ocean by hi_raeth. He's the Omega in sharpen your teeth and sink into me by Like_A_Dove. If you want your fic with a sidecar of knitting puns, try The Knotting Shop by crossingwinter. Some others AH2 agree on: Reclaimed by Betts, Juniper and Bergamot by SaintHeretical, and Abash the Little Bird by SecretReyloTrash.
Coveted by OptimisticBeth is a crossover between Star Wars and Mercy Thompson.
If you have a lot of time on your hands, try the Reylo ABO hereafter by voicedimplosives. If you want lots of voyerism with your Reylo, check out An Unexpected Vacation by tigbit
If you're looking for ABO but vampires, try a little death (goes a long way) by crossingwinter
Adriana recommends trying any Stucky fic by GiselleSlash.
Ali recs Hello, Heartbreaker by astoryaboutwar or The Chase by Tipsy_kitty. In this universe, everyone’s a werewolf and Ali says it's a great starting point for ABO, written for a fandom that has tons of amazing ABO fics. Another TeenWolf fic you might enjoy is
If you want to try some Sherlock fic (not with Lucy Liu, but Jen believes it must be out there!), check out The Breath Between Us and The Breath Before Us by fayfayfay.
Sponsors
Piper Rayne, author of You Had Your Chance, Lee Burrows
get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo or your local indie.
Visit Piper at piperrayne.com
and
Alyxandra Harvey, author of The Cinderella Society series
featuring How to Marry an Earl,
How to Marry a Duke, &
How to Marry a Viscount
Available free in Kindle Unlimited
Jessa Kane New Year's Eve Extravaganza
WELCOME 2021!
As is customary on Fated Mates, we’re releasing a special New Year’s Eve episode that requires headphones if you’re in mixed company! We brought some of our most favorite people together for a very special crossover episode of Fated Mates and Andie J. Christopher’s Instagram TV Juggernaut: Drunk Romance History, during which we drink a delightful mix of alcohol and talk about a delightful mix of erotic romance by the queen of the quick and dirty novella—Jessa Kane.
We’re talking priests and daddy kink, mafia hitmen, billionaires, husky heroes, stepbrothers and what Joanna Shape refers to as the Kane-Trope-Wheel. Tracey Livesay has a mug with penises on it. Bring in 2021 right. (Also, if you, like Joanna and Jen have read all of the Jessa Kane’s, no worries! She released a new one today—BURLY—just in time for this episode! Shero!)
Head over to Andie’s IGTV channel for the video version.
Next week, we have a special guest episode, and in two weeks, our first read along of 2021, Alexis Hall’s For Real. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
One more chance for phone-banking is Monday 1/4/2021 at 5pm central.
Listen to last year's New Year's Eve epsiode on Pegging with special guest, Sierra Simone!
Have we mentioned Drunk Romance History on Andie's Instagram?
We are joined today by our friends: Andie Christopher, Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera, LaQuette, Tracey Livesay, Nisha Sharma, and Joanna Shupe.
Get Tracey's penis mug here.
Normalize sex toys. Today's guests are big fans of LELO products and recommend: The Ora2, The Sona2, and The Gigi2.
Jessa Kane: Starter Level
The Two Ps, One V Level
The Daddy Level
The Voyeur Level
He’s a Big, Big Man Level
He’s a Bad, Bad Man Level
Books from our Guests
Jennifer Prokop 0:04 / #
Sarah, it's New Year's Eve and you know what that means?
Sarah MacLean 0:06 / #
We have what like, six hours till 2021! We've just got to hold it down you guys.
Jennifer Prokop 0:13 / #
Some of our listeners are already living in that 2021 future.
Sarah MacLean 0:17 / #
My God, is that amazing? Report in Australia, India, Russia! Hello anyway, but what are we doing, because we don't usually release on a Thursday?
Jennifer Prokop 0:31 / #
No, we certainly do not! But it is New Year's Eve. What we do usually do though, around New Year's Eve is release an episode that is going to be the flat out dirtiest one of the year.
Jennifer Prokop 0:43 / #
I don't know the first year, maybe we weren't on this train. But last year, we released our pegging episode, which is probably one of our best episodes ever.
Sarah MacLean 0:50 / #
Aside from 50 shades. I'm pretty sure that episode is our most popular episode.
Sarah MacLean 0:54 / #
And why not? Why would it not be?
Jennifer Prokop 0:58 / #
Start your new year with a new resolution? Try new things. So, we were talking...
Sarah MacLean 1:05 / #
No, you weren't there!
Jennifer Prokop 1:05 / #
So tell us what happened.
Sarah MacLean 1:07 / #
I have a group of friends. You know a lot of them because they've been on the podcast. And we were having a holiday drink via zoom. And during this holiday drink via zoom, and one of those people is Andie Christopher, who is running an Instagram Live fun thing every Saturday called Drunk Romance History, where people drink and then talk about an old romance novel that is bananas. And that's extremely fun. And you should go watch all of them on her Instagram feed. Anyway, so as we were talking, we got into a discussion of Jessa Kane, who we've not talked about, I don't think, on the pod even when we did those quick and dirty episode.
Jennifer Prokop 1:47 / #
I think we mentioned one of them on the mafia interstitial.
Jennifer Prokop 1:52 / #
It's because it's really like a erotica. It's not really quite erotic romance.
Sarah MacLean 1:56 / #
I also feel like we came to Jessica Kane a little later. Because when we did the quick and dirty episode, the fact that we did not reference her would be just very remiss, but maybe we weren't reading her then. I don't know. But the point is, she's very quick and very dirty. And so we started talking about how she really does like, she sort of takes the finger constantly. Like there's just there's no, there's no level of Jessa Kanedom that you can get to where it feels like it's too much.
Sarah MacLean 2:28 / #
It takes the finger and puts it everywhere a finger could go.
Sarah MacLean 2:31 / #
Indeed she does.
Sarah MacLean 2:32 / #
And so we you know, we're drinking at the time, and we were laughing and there was some suggestions and somebody suggested, "Oh, Andie, you should do a just Kane episode of drunk romance history." And I said, "Well, what if we recorded a big zoom conversation about Jesss Kane and our respective favorite books, or the first book we read? Some of them were Jessa Kane virgins. And we all came together this week to record what was an extremely fun zoom about Jessa Kane. It is a crossover episode. So you are about to get Fated Mates - slash - Drunk Romance History. So you can hear the audio right here in your earholes. And then if you want to see LaQuette's face, which is very worth worth watching, to be honest, you can head over to Andie's Instagram account, which is @authorAndieJ. And we'll put links in show notes and you can watch the video version of this very fun hour and a half. As we did last year with the pegging episode, we're going to drop this early in the evening. So if you are staying safe, and masked, and solo New Year's Eve style, you have many hours and many Jessa Kane books to get through.
Jennifer Prokop 3:58 / #
One last serious order of business before we turn it over. It is New Year's Eve. On Monday, which is January 4, we are doing our last Fated States phonebank for Ossoff Warnock with the indivisible team. It will be from five to seven Central, I will drop the link to sign up and show notes. And this is our last big push everybody. A huge number of voters have already voted in Georgia. I will be honest, last time we phonebanked, we talked to a lot of people who said, "I already voted." And so it feels great to just hear all those Georgia voters who have already done their part and maybe we'll catch somebody who hasn't. So if you are looking for one last way to turn this ship we call democracy around, we would love to have you with us phone banking on Monday night
Sarah MacLean 4:45 / #
And if you're in Georgia, vote your Ossoff. I love that phrase.
Jennifer Prokop 4:51 / #
It's actually great.
Sarah MacLean 4:57 / #
I wish there was a vote your Warnock but that's not a thing. Yeah, that doesn't mean anything, but vote your Warnock too. We love you guys. Happy New Year. Thanks for being with us through 2020 it really made the big a big difference for us to have you and to know that you were out there listening. And 2021, is it's gonna be great. I feel great about it. Me too. I got a feeling 21 is going to be a good year. Wait a second. Eric. That's a song.
Music Lyric 5:28 / #
Got a feeling 21 is gonna be a good year. Especially for you and me, seeing it together. So you think 21 is gonna be a good year. Could be good for me and Herman
Andie Christopher 5:50 / #
Drunk Fated Mates?
Nisha Sharma 5:55 / #
Me? I like it.
Sarah MacLean 5:58 / #
It kind of began with Drunk Mates. So, Andie Christopher, why don't you tell everybody what they won. Oh, wait, wait, Hang on. Hang on. Eric wants to check. Oh, okay. All right. We're good. We're good to go. We've been approved.
Adriana Herrera 6:19 / #
Thank you, Eric
Andie Christopher 6:21 / #
This group, I think minus Jen. Jen wasn't able to join us, got drunk a couple of weeks ago to celebrate all the Sagittarius birthdays. And we got to talking about some of our favorite bananas books. And one author that I think most of us discovered this year during the quarantine, is the prolific, the filthy, the bananas, Jessa Kane. And so we thought it would be fun to do a crossover Drunk Romance History/ Fated Mates episode about Jessa Kane in general. Yes. And so some of us are have read all of the Jessa Kanes. Some of us have read some of the Jessa Kanes. Some of us had read like one of the Jessa Kanes
Sarah MacLean 7:19 / #
New to Jessa Kane.
Andie Christopher 7:24 / #
And so we're coming together to just talk about our love affair with these with these books that. I mean,
Jennifer Prokop 7:34 / #
they really defy description in some ways, don't they?
Andie Christopher 7:37 / #
They really do. I mean, they're a shot of ID right into your veins.
Sarah MacLean 7:42 / #
On her website, I just went to her website because I wanted to be an actual professional tonight and have something to say about Jessa Kane. There is no information about her on her website. So whoever you are, thanks for playing! Jessa we love you.
Adriana Herrera 7:55 / #
There's a burner phone feel to it. And I love it.
Sarah MacLean 8:00 / #
Her website says Jessa Kane, and underneath it says "satisfying."
Adriana Herrera 8:09 / #
That's all you need to know.
Sarah MacLean 8:12 / #
That is a flex. She's like, I just have this is the word.
Andie Christopher 8:16 / #
Okay, so so we should all identify yourselves. Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 8:19 / #
Can I call it? Can I call the fucking group to order please? We've gotta do this thing. Okay, so Hi, I'm Jen ReadsRomance. And we are doing a Fated Mates Drunk romance podcast crossover. And we have a group of people with us. So let's have everybody introduce themselves quickly and say, if they think your commentary tonight is stellar and amazing, perhaps they would like to read your book. So tell us more about who you are.
Sarah MacLean 8:49 / #
Well, Jen, there's There are six of them. Okay, you're gonna call on them.
Jennifer Prokop 8:53 / #
Okay, I think that's best I'm gonna call on people. Ok, Alexis, you're first.
Alexis Daria 8:59 / #
I'm Alexis Daria. I write contemporary romance. My latest release is YOU HAD ME AT HOLA. and I'm in New York City. So you might hear some honking
Sarah MacLean 9:09 / #
Wait, and I also think you need to tell everybody where on the Kane spectrum you are...
Andie Christopher 9:16 / #
We need to know that.
Alexis Daria 9:19 / #
Due to the quarantine, my focus is shot so I've been having a hard time just sitting down and reading books lately, so I mostly do audiobooks. So I've only read one Jessa Kane book in full, but I've started a couple others and I have more on my Kindle.
Jennifer Prokop 9:33 / #
Jenny Nordbak, I think has done some audio for Jessica Kane and Jenny Nordbak's voice is like one sex on a stick. She's the wicked wallflowers podcast cohost, so I don't know if she's done all of them. I think she talked about what doing one maybe it's not out yet. I'm not sure so all of you who think oh, could Jessa Kane be sexier. [editorial note: Jen was wrong. Jenny recoreded a Brill Harper book on audio]
Sarah MacLean 9:56 / #
When Jenny reads it. When Miss Scarlet reads it.
Jennifer Prokop 10:01 / #
Exactly. So there you go. I can't, I don't even know if I could listen to it. I think it would, literally I'd have to like... well, you know, I probably could listen to it. it's fine.
Alexis Daria 10:09 / #
Okay, nice listening while I'm washing the dishes.
Jennifer Prokop 10:11 / #
See there you go.
Nisha Sharma 10:15 / #
Hi, everyone. This is Nisha Sharma. I'm back on the pod. My book, THE LEGAL AFFAIR came out in August and pre orders for my second YA, RADHA 7 JAI'S RECIPE FOR ROMANCE are also available. And that comes out in July.
Jennifer Prokop 10:35 / #
And where are you on the Kane scale?
Nisha Sharma 10:36 / #
I'm probably in the middle of the road. I have about, I've finished about five or six Jessa Kane books. And I have to clear my Kindle Unlimited list in order to get the rest of them. So right now it's very dramatic. I'm trying to figure out what I have to like offload in order to download more.
Sarah MacLean 11:00 / #
And this is the problem with that Kindle Unlimited list is you have to be like: am I really ever going to read that thing? Because I want to read HUSKY...
Adriana Herrera 11:08 / #
...or HEFTY.
Jennifer Prokop 11:15 / #
Again, they do let you check out Kindle unlimited books again, everybody.
Sarah MacLean 11:21 / #
But it does feel like Nisha and I are on the same page here, which is once it goes off the list, It's never coming back. Jen probably has a spreadsheet. She's been on, you've been on the phone with Amazon all day yelling at them about...
Jennifer Prokop 11:37 / #
I don't really want to talk about it. That's fine.
Sarah MacLean 11:40 / #
That's private.
Jennifer Prokop 11:42 / #
No, it just wasn't helpful. And then you just feel like you're gaslit by Amazon. And so I had let it go.
Andie Christopher 11:46 / #
It sounds less satisfying than my experience,m spending two hours on the phone with Verizon today just on hold.
Jennifer Prokop 11:54 / #
No, that's not great. At least with that, Because then you can do other things and then kind of leave when it's...
Andie Christopher 12:01 / #
no, I was I was peeing when Verizon finally picked up. So I had to run out of my bathroom.
Jennifer Prokop 12:08 / #
Of course
Andie Christopher 12:09 / #
running across the floor to get the phone.
Jennifer Prokop 12:11 / #
I know you introduced yourself, but I think you can talk again about what book you have out, and your place on the Kane spectrum.
Andie Christopher 12:17 / #
Okay, so I'm again I'm Andie J. Christopher. I am the host of the Instagram Live series probably soon to be podcast, Drunk Romance History. My latest book that I have out-- I put out two books this year, I'm very proud of that. NOT THAT KIND OF GUY came out in April. It is a workplace romance and oops, we got married. There's definitely banging, not as much as the Jessie Kane book. But there's banging and then I have a short, if you're still interested in a little holiday novella, I have a very dirty holiday novella called ALL THEY WANT FOR CHRISTMAS, which is a Snowed-in, MMF bang fest. if you're a fan of Jessa you're going to be a fan of ALL THEY WANT FOR CHRISTMAS.
Jennifer Prokop 13:03 / #
Well speaking of filthy Christmas shorts. I guess we should go to Adrianna, next.
Adriana Herrera 13:12 / #
Hi. Hello. I'm Adriana Herrera, and I write romance. So my release is HER NIGHT WITH SANTA, which is a very short, very dirty novelette about a lesbian, female Santa who hooks up with King Melchior's neice on a secret beach villa in the Caribbean.
Jennifer Prokop 13:36 / #
And a bag of toys.
Adriana Herrera 13:37 / #
And then yes, and a bag of toys.
Andie Christopher 13:41 / #
It's so hot. You guys. It is is scorchingly hot.
Adriana Herrera 13:45 / #
It is what happens with when I go into my head. When I go into my head, there are sex toys. And there's Megan Rapinoe.
Sarah MacLean 13:55 / #
I think Adriana knows this already. But this week, obviously we have we have been through Christmas in my house with the seven year old. And I told her that I read this book where the theory about Santa is that it's a family of Santas, and the current Santa is a woman. And she's like, "That's amazing. Tell me more." And I'm like, "that's all I can tell you about that."
Jennifer Prokop 14:21 / #
And where are you on the Kane scale, Adriana?
Adriana Herrera 14:26 / #
I'm pretty far into it. I just I realized that there's a few that I've missed. But I have read quite a few of them. I would say most of them. And I discovered her over Thanksgiving. It was very recent. I bought a new Kindle and got a KU subscription. And I had heard someone talk about her. Maybe it was one of you, I don't know who... I
Andie Christopher 14:51 / #
I think it was me, because I've read all of them and I just remembered I started my first one when I was still working in my office. So this was either like late February or early March,
Adriana Herrera 15:01 / #
It must have been you. I think we were chatting or something and it must have been Andie and I read one of them. And then I read a lot more of them. And I enjoy them. Like it's one of those things where some of the things, some of the elements to them are not particularly my buttons, but it's still so bananas. That I need to know what happens. So, yeah, I'm a fan.
Jennifer Prokop 15:32 / #
Fair enough. Okay, LaQuette, your're next.
LaQuette 15:34 / #
Hey, everyone, I'm LeQuette, but I write romance-- sometimes very steamy. Okay, erotic romance. My next book coming is coming out in February and it's titled Jackson. It's about a hulky, grumpy, Texas Ranger who falls in love with a sassy New Yorker who puts him in his place. It's loads of fun.
Jennifer Prokop 15:58 / #
And you are a newcomer to the Kane family. Yes?
LaQuette 16:01 / #
Yes. I've only read one at this point.
Jennifer Prokop 16:04 / #
That's okay.
Sarah MacLean 16:06 / #
Thanks, y'all.
Jennifer Prokop 16:12 / #
Tracey, what about you?
Tracey Livesay 16:14 / #
Hi, I'm Tracey Livesey. I write contemporary romance. My latest release was LIKE LOVERS DO, which came out in August and is still available. So go buy it. And just saying, I am new to Jessa Kane. During our zoom that Andie mentioned earlier, y'all couldn't stop talking about it. And so then y'all talked about doing this and I was like, I want to come. so I bought a Jessa Kane book. And here we are.
Sarah MacLean 16:57 / #
With your penis mug.
Tracey Livesay 16:58 / #
With my penis mug.
Sarah MacLean 17:00 / #
She came prepared.
Adriana Herrera 17:01 / #
I wish I had a penis mug.
Tracey Livesay 17:03 / #
I'm having a hot toddy in it.
Sarah MacLean 17:04 / #
So she came on brand
Nisha Sharma 17:06 / #
But that's not a Jessa Kane penis, mug, those are too small.
Andie Christopher 17:12 / #
No, a Jessa Kane penis mug would... go All the way around the mug
Adriana Herrera 17:16 / #
You could see it from space.
Tracey Livesay 17:20 / #
If you put them all together like an extension cocks, you know,
Adriana Herrera 17:26 / #
Extension cocks! like Christmas lights?
Tracey Livesay 17:32 / #
If one doesn't work, they all don't work, and you got to figure out which one works and then plug another one in, you know?
Jennifer Prokop 17:41 / #
Joanna Shupe.
Joanna Shupe 17:43 / #
Hi, I'm Joanna Shupe. I write historical romance. If you like Jessa's books, you might like the anthology DUKE I'D LIKE TO F, which I did with Adriana and some others. Those stories are bananas and very, very hot. On the Kane scale, I have read them all. I don't think I would have gone through 2020 without Jessa Kane. I'm just gonna put that out there. I just think they would have been a much different year for me had Jessa Kane not come into my life.
Jennifer Prokop 18:19 / #
I feel that. okay, Sarah MacLean.
Sarah MacLean 18:23 / #
I, Sarah MacLean, write romance novels and I read them and I'm on the "middle of the road" Kane scale. Here's the thing. I just looked at it, I just pulled up Amazon because like I said, all we know from Jessa's website is that she's satisfying and I can confirm it. But on Amazon there are so many of these books.
Joanna Shupe 18:42 / #
So many.
Sarah MacLean 18:43 / #
And like Nisha, I'm compulsive about my Kindle Unlimited list. So there's, I can only spare one slot at a time.
Jennifer Prokop 18:53 / #
Today, we were like, "who's going to talk about which one?" and I was like "yeah, whatever I read them all." I'm a 100 on the Kane scale and Sarah's like, "I read the one about the stepbrothers." And I was like, "that's like seven of them!"
Sarah MacLean 19:05 / #
No, no, I read the one where there are two stepbrothers! THEIR SUMMER INTERN, but then when I got on the website, there is also a HIS SUMMER INTERN, which is similar title but clearly different.
Adriana Herrera 19:21 / #
Not what you would expect.
Sarah MacLean 19:25 / #
Wait, what would I expect?
Adriana Herrera 19:29 / #
You would expect an office building? Yeah? Yeah? No.
Andie Christopher 19:36 / #
I haven't read this one.
Nisha Sharma 19:38 / #
Wait, what are we... this is like cabin in the woods.
Sarah MacLean 19:43 / #
Why would he need an intern in the cabin?
Joanna Shupe 19:46 / #
He doesn't.
Adriana Herrera 19:47 / #
He doesn't.
LaQuette 19:51 / #
You're asking for things to make sense. There's no logic.
Adriana Herrera 19:54 / #
He's a survivalist.
Sarah MacLean 19:56 / #
He's a survivalist who requires an intern? this feels Like a serious like workplace violation
LaQuette 20:04 / #
All of them are workplace violations.
Jennifer Prokop 20:13 / #
I'm gonna call it. I'm gonna run have to run this thing. Everybody we're just gonna let me do this, okay?
Jennifer Prokop 20:16 / #
LaQuette and Tracey, because otherwise it's gonna be nine people talking and Eric will be mad. He'll be like, "that wasn't fun. It's too many people talking." LaQuette and Tracy you have each read one. Which ones have you read?
Sarah MacLean 20:29 / #
Oh, and Alexis, too.
Jennifer Prokop 20:31 / #
Oka, so Alexis, too. I would like to hear about the people who are brand new to the Jessa Kane universe.
LaQuette 20:40 / #
I read HEFTY which I thought was super adorable. I will say that I didn't find it as hot as I expected considering all of the feedback I was getting about Jessica Kane. So I think I'm telling on myself a little bit with what I actually read.
Jennifer Prokop 20:57 / #
My theory actually is that if it's a Jessa Kane that's not about a stepbrother or a daddy. It just feels like regular heat.
Sarah MacLean 21:07 / #
Also HEFTY is about high school students. So let's all settle down.
Jennifer Prokop 21:11 / #
wait, no, that's the one about the model
LaQuette 21:16 / #
That was the one with the model and the bartender. I it was cute. I thought it was hilarious. His especially the hero's perspective I really enjoyed. Because it was really fun. It was really fun to get to read someone who's aware of their size, and not really apologetic for it. Right? Like, he gest caught, he's looking at her. And he's kind of questioning whether she's actually checking him out or not. And he's like, Nah, she wouldn't be after my thick ass, you know? And I was like, Dude, I love this. I love that he was so in love with his own, he was just settled in his own body, he didn't care. And the only time he ever seem to feel uncomfortable, outside of when she's teasing him, so to speak. But the only time he's ever uncomfortable is when someone, when the I guess you can't call them a villain, her. But the antagonist in the story, her best friend, is the only time that you see him feel some sort of insecurity about his size. And it's not because he feels that, but it's because someone else has that thought about him. And I think that's a very important distinction because there are a lot of romances that I've read with plus size heroines, not plus sized heroes, but there's always this thread of this person feeling like they can't be loved, or there's something wrong with them. Because they are plus size. And I love that he knew he was thick, he didn't care. And it was just and I love that she loved everything about him. And through her eyes, you get to fall in love with this man. And I think that's that's how you write a plus size person. You allow them to be comfortable in their own skin, as well as allow the person or people who love them to adore everything about them, including their 3x size.
Adriana Herrera 23:32 / #
Yeah, and I appreciate her writing plus size men because you never see never, never see plus, larger men in romance. I mean, the reality is that most people are married to larger size men. So the idea of both HEFTY and HUSKY. Like the heroine is specifically into their bodies, like they find them sexy. They find them attractive. But it's for and, and HEFTY, It's baffling to her that the other girls in the school aren't so into him because to her he's so attractive. And so
Andie Christopher 24:22 / #
I mean, what I really love about these books is how much emotion she packs it sometimes Yeah, we can pack into like 60, 70 pages. Oh yeah, like there's a lot
Adriana Herrera 24:33 / #
There's a lot of skill there like with HEFTY the the high schoolers. Like I'm like, Okay, these are high schoolers with the heat. It was a little harder for me but this romance
Sarah MacLean 24:44 / #
We should say they're both over 18
Adriana Herrera 24:46 / #
They both are over 18.
Sarah MacLean 24:49 / #
Very clear, very important that they are 18.
Nisha Sharma 24:52 / #
Do you know what I love about Jessa Kane? In these situations is that you see a lot of people try to tackle these issues. Or not even issues like these concepts in romance, and they skirt around it, because they're afraid of saying what everyone already knows. Jessa Kane is not afraid of just saying it and just putting it on the page. And I just love it because it feels so much more authentic. And so like the emotion is just so raw in it because she's just flat out just puts it all out there and I love that.
Joanna Shupe 25:28 / #
There's no fear. Of any topic, at any level. Any subject, any kink, no fear.
Adriana Herrera 25:36 / #
Yeah, and I think it's, and I wonder how how it is for her to write those books. Because it feels to me like I was really saying this about the novelette that I wrote, HER NIGHT WITH SANTA, was everything that is, I was like, here are my ID-list things. So let me just write it. And that just poured out of me because it was so satisfying and delicious for me to write about it. Because this stuff I love to read. And I find super hot. So I and I think for me, even the books that don't quite work for me in terms of the kinks. I still enjoy them because I can tell the enjoyment that was happening when those stories were being written.
Sarah MacLean 26:16 / #
Yeah, it doesn't feel the same way as I mean, we should say for those of you who've never read Jesse Kane, like these are shorts.
Jennifer Prokop 26:23 / #
They are! Oh, yeah.
Adriana Herrera 26:26 / #
It's a one hour read.
Sarah MacLean 26:28 / #
Yeah, exactly. And so you can really tear through them. I mean, I read like seven and a night one night. But the what's interesting about that is that it really does feel like she just sits-- I wonder, I mean, I wonder how long she actually, I wonder if it's just a one sitting story because it does sort of feel like she just opens up a vein and, there now you've got this.
Jennifer Prokop 26:53 / #
There's not a lot of attention to plot. It is really all about like emotions and about
Sarah MacLean 26:58 / #
Well the plot is twisty turny like this, the the stepbrother one. THEIR SUMMER INTERN, Oh, okay. You guys.
Jennifer Prokop 27:09 / #
Yeah, we talked about the cute stuff. No, I think we're like: yeah, it's kind of normal. Then You have THEIR SUMMER INTERN.
Sarah MacLean 27:17 / #
The Plot of THEIR SUMMER INTERN is this woman, that the heroine-- all her heroines, I think, somebody, Joanna and Jen, correct me if I'm wrong, but her heroines are always very young, right?
Sarah MacLean 27:29 / #
I they all get bred by the end.
Adriana Herrera 27:31 / #
Usually virgin, enthusiastically bred.
Jennifer Prokop 27:37 / #
You know what, she does do some virgin heroes, too
Sarah MacLean 27:43 / #
These two heroes are not virgins. Just to be clear.
LaQuette 27:47 / #
What I what I appreciated about the about HUSKY anyway, was that you have this hero who is and in most of our books, we read these books where the hero is so virile, and, you know, and his stamina is ridiculous. And this guy is just like, Look, I'm not gonna make it. It's not gonna happen. This is gonna be a 1-2-3 pump kind of situation. And I thought that was so refreshing that they weren't having this hour long love fest and that it was just quick and dirty. And I thought it was so hilarious that he was like, "fuck it. You can laugh at me later. But for the rest of my life, I'm going to hold on to this scene where I got to be with you. It doesn't matter that I only lasted three seconds."
Andie Christopher 28:41 / #
He made up for it like with the coat on the boardwalk.
LaQuette 28:48 / #
Still, it was great to read that because I think so often, we get caught up in the fantasy of the romance, of sex. And we don't really portray it always in a realistic fashion. Because, you know...
Nisha Sharma 29:05 / #
Let me tell you, that is not the typical Jessa Kane, the ones that I read it was like, Oh, this is what you have to deal with when you're sitting on a nine inch cock.
Sarah MacLean 29:22 / #
That's not realistic?
Sarah MacLean 29:27 / #
They're all the size of a two liter bottle of Coke.
Adriana Herrera 29:33 / #
Yes, I mean, they are for breeding. Um, so one thing I would say is there's this very raw. And again, it's a slice of America that sometimes, it's a little jarring for me as a naturalized citizen of the United States. I think... Like what? What always gets me about it, I was re-reading PREACHER MAN this afternoon because Andie mentioned it
Andie Christopher 30:09 / #
It's my favorite, it's my first
Adriana Herrera 30:12 / #
And I'm like you know
Sarah MacLean 30:13 / #
I'm so surprised by that, by the way Andie, definitely that's your Id.
Jennifer Prokop 30:17 / #
I'm pretty sure I told Joanna about Jessa Kane because I really... I remember Joanna being like... THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE? I'm in!
Joanna Shupe 30:25 / #
I'll be right back in two hours.
Sarah MacLean 30:30 / #
Isnt' PREACHER MAN , the one where he watches her through the window?
Andie Christopher 30:34 / #
Oh, it's five different books.
Sarah MacLean 30:38 / #
She masturbate during his sermon, too?
Andie Christopher 30:41 / #
She masturbates while he watches her through the window. And he masturbates outside.
Sarah MacLean 30:47 / #
And she's wearing like a white nightgown the whole time?
Andie Christopher 30:53 / #
A slip to get baptized. That's later she..
Adriana Herrera 30:57 / #
That's before we find out he's actually a mafia assassin. Her mom hires him to give her an exorcism
Andie Christopher 31:10 / #
on the edge of the woods in her Mississippi town.
Sarah MacLean 31:12 / #
I forgot about the exorcism,
Adriana Herrera 31:16 / #
There's an exorcism
Andie Christopher 31:18 / #
that he does with his mouth on her pussy.
Adriana Herrera 31:22 / #
Exercises that right out of her
Sarah MacLean 31:25 / #
I mean, they take the finger every one.
Adriana Herrera 31:33 / #
Completely up. I mean, I think that's what I find very, I think that's why I connect and I don't read a lot of like bananas bonkers super taboo stuff. I really don't. But first of all, I think it's because it's that quick shot, it's so short, I don't need to read 40 different kidnappings. You know, like, there's one.
Nisha Sharma 32:01 / #
That's my entire Kindle! Like all the kidnappings, me and Joanna, we're like, oh, did you read this?
Adriana Herrera 32:12 / #
It's not my thing! But if it's one short one, I can handle it.
Sarah MacLean 32:17 / #
But if it's a kidnapping on top of an exorcism on top of stepbrothers, then you're like, Okay!
Adriana Herrera 32:22 / #
But it's moving. It's moving. The momentum is moving.
Jennifer Prokop 32:29 / #
I really want to hear from Tracy and Alexis, who just look disturbed by all of it.
Jennifer Prokop 32:36 / #
Tracy, what did you read?
Joanna Shupe 32:40 / #
Tracey is like, is it too late to back out?
Sarah MacLean 32:47 / #
Tracey came With a cock mug, it's fine. She can handle that.
Tracey Livesay 32:53 / #
Um, I've read SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST.
Andie Christopher 32:57 / #
Oh, that's such a good one.
Tracey Livesay 33:02 / #
Okay. So I'm going to start off despite my facial expressions by saying like, LaQuette, it was not, It was a little tame for me. And that might be telling about me, but it was a little tame for my reading. And I wondered if, as she was writing, she delved deeper into her Id. I wonder if that came before the preacher book because I want to read that, or the Intern book. Like, I want to read that. So I don't know if that was like, progression.
Jennifer Prokop 33:38 / #
Ok, well I have a theory. Do you want to hear my theory about this? Yeah, yeah. Those of us that are that are Jessa Kane One Hundreds would like to bring people on board to the Jessa Kane train, but you can't start them with THEIR SUMMER INTERN, you have some that are like kind of normal-ish. And so that, okay, the beauty and the beast one it's fine, right?
Tracey Livesay 33:59 / #
I did I read something called SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST. So I don't know, like, what kind of on-roading do you like?
Adriana Herrera 34:09 / #
Yeah, the one with HIS SUMMER INTERN, with the survivalist on the cabin.
Tracey Livesay 34:15 / #
Okay, so SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST was beauty in the beast. And it starts off with her father and the villagers pretty much taking her to the forest to be sacrificed to the beast. And I have to admit that throughout, as I was reading the story, the soundtrack to the Disney Beauty the Beast kept playing in my head. So I kept imagining the villagers like: "he will make off with your children," with singing and torches and stuff. That was just that was just my mind. Um, and so they so apparently in the village, This is modern day, but it goes back and forth between modern day and feeling like the 1950s, I don't know. But anyway, so the village animals have been slaughtered. And so they have had this happen before and they say, it's a beast that lives in the woods. And so to appease the beast, so he won't slaughter their animals.
Adriana Herrera 35:23 / #
They need human sacrifice.
Sarah MacLean 35:27 / #
This is 2020 like modern, you're like... we need to sacrifice a virgin
Adriana Herrera 35:35 / #
We need to sacrifice the virgin.
Tracey Livesay 35:41 / #
She's the only one...
Tracey Livesay 35:42 / #
The only virgin?
Nisha Sharma 35:46 / #
If I was in that town, I'd be getting like laid in the eighth grade just to make sure that I wouldn't be...
Adriana Herrera 35:59 / #
I think maybe her dad gives her away. I think her dad is okay with it.
Tracey Livesay 36:04 / #
the entire village! He's like, yes.
Sarah MacLean 36:07 / #
So on the Id list, the Jesse Kane Id list is: dads who are like: "fuck off. I don't care."
LaQuette 36:12 / #
I think that's on everyone's Id list.
Tracey Livesay 36:16 / #
They tie her to a tree and leave her and, and then the beast is silhouetted against the night and he roars and it's very scary. And I'm thinking, "oh my god, is it like an actual beast?" Which I don't know! And it was not an actual beast. It was just a big man. He's like seven feet tall. Apparently, he's very hairy, he might need a haircut and a shave, but they don't do that in the book.
Tracey Livesay 36:54 / #
And, um, and so yeah, they have sex.
Sarah MacLean 36:58 / #
So she just had sex with this hairy beastie dude.
Tracey Livesay 37:01 / #
Yeah, she puts up a you know, she goes against him for the evening. But then the next day they just do it.
Andie Christopher 37:09 / #
Doesn't he go down on her first? isn't that kind of sweet?
Adriana Herrera 37:15 / #
He doens't really know, he's like: I feel like this would be nice for her.
Tracey Livesay 37:24 / #
he was very sweet. Very nice and sweet. He was not beast-like at all. He's very nice, sweet, and he fell in love with her and her long blonde hair. And so he was very sweet and as tender with the virgin as you could be when you have a 12 inch. 12 inch!
LaQuette 37:49 / #
Yeah, I'm right with you, and I appreciate
Sarah MacLean 37:51 / #
For the people who are just listening to the podcast, Tracy just pulled out a ruler, as though she had come prepared for this.
Tracey Livesay 38:04 / #
Like the subway footlong, and she's a virgin.
Adriana Herrera 38:10 / #
a foot Long
Jennifer Prokop 38:16 / #
so you enjoyed it but not as dirty as you liked. Okay.
Tracey Livesay 38:19 / #
Yes, yes,
Tracey Livesay 38:23 / #
They will be a scene, because there was a scene where she like-- I shouldn't be too loud, my kids are up-- but there was a scene where she goes down on him in front of these like evil guys.
Jennifer Prokop 38:35 / #
There is a voyuerism angle in a lot of them
Sarah MacLean 38:40 / #
there's another one like that and somebody I can't remember later one but it's it's in a cabin and he makes her dad watch it too. Yeah
Nisha Sharma 38:54 / #
And he puts her on the table.
Sarah MacLean 38:56 / #
And LaQuette is like, now what?
Adriana Herrera 38:59 / #
Which one is that one?
LaQuette 39:04 / #
Tell me which one that one is, because I cannot read that.
Sarah MacLean 39:07 / #
which one is that one?
Nisha Sharma 39:08 / #
It's called THE FIGHTER'S PRIZE and he races in to save her because the dad wanted to marry her off to this other dude. And she's like, "no I'm with you!" and he's like "well then prove it" and basically does her on the table, is like watch me claim this woman.
Adriana Herrera 39:25 / #
Okay, first of all, I just want to premise this by saying that her dad was total trash and sold her
LaQuette 39:31 / #
I don't care!
Sarah MacLean 39:37 / #
There's also one where the cabin one.
Andie Christopher 39:40 / #
There's also when where, shit, where the heroine gets auctioned off because she went to a party with her friends
Joanna Shupe 39:47 / #
SUDDENLY HIS! SUDDENLY HIS!
Nisha Sharma 39:49 / #
I love SUDDENLY HIS! that one was so good.
Joanna Shupe 39:55 / #
That one doesn't leave my Kindle. I don't ever return that one, that one is a perma-lend.
Sarah MacLean 40:07 / #
isn't there one more there in a cabin? And the he brings in a priest to watch?
Jennifer Prokop 40:12 / #
Okay, that one, listen is the one with Alexa Riley so it is no longer available on KU. You have to get that one on iBooks. Ask me how I know. it's like the Russian... Wait, I'd have to look at up [TAKEN BY THE RUSSIAN.]
Joanna Shupe 40:29 / #
Wait , I haven't read that one.
Sarah MacLean 40:30 / #
Oh Joanna get going. Joanna has to go
Jennifer Prokop 40:33 / #
In the middle of the wedding ceremony, She's whispering dirty stuff to him. And he basically starts fucking her while the priest is marrying them. And he says to her, he says to the priest, he says, make her my wife while I make her a mother.
Sarah MacLean 40:49 / #
Yeah. That is some weird shit.
Sarah MacLean 41:07 / #
Nisha is like, get it in my veins. Here's the thing, everybody that listens to the podcast knows that all I care about is when writers do like crazy, when they're like, I'm just gonna do it. We're just gonna see if this works. I love it. I will always buy your next book if you try that? That is some weird shit.
Adriana Herrera 41:26 / #
That is some weird stuff.
Alexis Daria 41:28 / #
What if we cross referenced all of the tropes? Like this is the one that has voyeurism in it and we can reference, okay, these are the five that have that and these are the ones that involve kidnapping.
Sarah MacLean 41:42 / #
Yes, Alexis, you're in charge now
Alexis Daria 41:46 / #
Some are gonna hit your buttons.
Adriana Herrera 41:52 / #
Now there's a lot of recurring themes in her in her stories, I mean, "enthusiastically bred" is in almost every one, Hello.
Sarah MacLean 42:01 / #
"I'm gonna put a baby in you" is like...
Andie Christopher 42:04 / #
or three in her! and I'm like, that can't be comfortable.
Sarah MacLean 42:07 / #
And then there's the firemen one where its, "I wonder which one of us is going to be the dad." And it's like, that feels weird.
Adriana Herrera 42:15 / #
that's weird.
Tracey Livesay 42:18 / #
What was that one called?
Jennifer Prokop 42:19 / #
And also in THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER and also THEIR SUMMER INTERN, I think has that "who's gonna be the father since we're both fucking her."
Sarah MacLean 42:28 / #
It's HER 2 PROTECTORS, number two, Her 2 protectors.
Adriana Herrera 42:32 / #
Her 2 protectors, So there's two possibilities.
Joanna Shupe 42:37 / #
He's obsessed with the heroine from the jump.
Alexis Daria 42:40 / #
The one that I read...
Adriana Herrera 42:41 / #
It's Alexis's turn. Eric is gonna have so much fun with this. Sorry, Eric.
Alexis Daria 42:50 / #
So I read QUEEN SIZED, which is technically like, maybe a fantasy romance.
Adriana Herrera 42:59 / #
It should be time travel
Alexis Daria 43:00 / #
Medieval times-y era in like, a place that is not a real place except people say Jesus Christ. Yeah, the guy's like "Jesus Christ. She's so hot."
Sarah MacLean 43:18 / #
it's not actual Jesus Christ?
Alexis Daria 43:24 / #
I mean, this book could be set on a reality show, it could be set at a Ren faire. Who knows where?
Adriana Herrera 43:32 / #
I've said this before, he should have been, it should have been time travel. He should have been a bouncer from Queens who goes through a portal and ends up in the medieval times.
Alexis Daria 43:43 / #
Yeah, and he becomes the king of this, like one kingdom, that's
Sarah MacLean 43:46 / #
in New Jersey,
Adriana Herrera 43:48 / #
in Hollis, Queens.
Alexis Daria 43:51 / #
They're having this like event between the two kingdoms called the joining, which is kind of what it sounds like. Celebrating the peace or something like that. But a lot of people end up hooking up and, you know, going off with each other and getting married after joining.
Tracey Livesay 44:07 / #
is the orgy on the page? is the orgy on the page?
Alexis Daria 44:12 / #
I know. I also felt like it was a little
Sarah MacLean 44:15 / #
Tracey's like, I got it.
Alexis Daria 44:17 / #
...other things that I've read or what I had been led to believe. But also the heroine is a virgin and she's trying to stay a virgin throughout the story because she is a farmer and she's got two sisters. She has to take care of them and she's like, I need a husband. We haven't had good crops last two years, and I need to marry a guy with money so that my sisters can be provided for
Sarah MacLean 44:39 / #
That's just sensible.
Alexis Daria 44:43 / #
And the king, he's like this giant warrior looking guy, of course. And he's walking with his friend and his friend is like, "you know, you really should think about getting a wife and if you ever want to talk about your traumic childhood, I'm here for you." And he's like, "No, I don't want to talk about my feelings. And I definitely don't want a wife. I'm so not into that--- Oh my God, Who is she?" And he's just been saying all the reasons why he doesn't want anything. And then he's like, "Oh my God, Who is she? I love her." So he goes over to her, and she tells him to drop dead. And he
LaQuette 45:22 / #
Does she know he's the king?
Alexis Daria 45:23 / #
So hilarious.
Jennifer Prokop 45:25 / #
She doesn't know, he just thinks he's too much for her, right?
Alexis Daria 45:29 / #
No, She's just, she doesn't know who he is, for one thing,
Jennifer Prokop 45:34 / #
Random man, I have things to do right now! Right?
Alexis Daria 45:37 / #
I'm here to find a husband. And I'm not gonna mess around with you going for a walk by the water. Sure. I know what that means. And she finds out he's the king and she's still just kind of like, Alright, fine, I'll go with you. And she's very much. He's like, "I don't want a wife. You're gonna be my mistress." And she's like, "Hell no, I'm not gonna be your mistress." But then he goes down on her and she goes down on him, like over in a cave. And then she's like, I gotta find a husband.
Adriana Herrera 46:10 / #
as you do!
Tracey Livesay 46:10 / #
it's compromising they're compromising already. It's...
Adriana Herrera 46:14 / #
....meeting halfway.
Tracey Livesay 46:17 / #
Yeah, it'll work.
Sarah MacLean 46:19 / #
So what I love about this is she's like, Alright, they have to have sex where they're gonna have sex. There must be a cave nearby
Alexis Daria 46:24 / #
A cave! They're like...
Sarah MacLean 46:25 / #
In my lifetime, I have never stumbled upon a cave
Adriana Herrera 46:33 / #
Everybody knows medieval times are full or caves, okay.
Alexis Daria 46:37 / #
The thing about this book was how how funny it was. So she tells him at one point like, well, Your Majesty, it's like you're between a loch and a hard place because you're there walking along the line. I laughed out loud.
Sarah MacLean 46:50 / #
She's funny. That's crazy. It was very funny. these books are great. They're very well written, she's a good writer.
Alexis Daria 47:00 / #
The first third was kind of out there. Like with setting everything up. There's not a ton of world building. But I think that if you like things like Reign or A Knight's Tale or stuff like that, where it's kind of old timey but not completely. You would like this.
Sarah MacLean 47:18 / #
You like men in armor.
Jennifer Prokop 47:20 / #
On Heaving Bosoms, they call it like England times. This world building is like medieval times....
Adriana Herrera 47:27 / #
they're wearing chain link and...
Sarah MacLean 47:29 / #
somebody eating a turkey leg with just their teeth.
Alexis Daria 47:35 / #
So they have a couple of these competitions for the women to compete so that the men can pick a wife.
Sarah MacLean 47:44 / #
And what do they have to do?
Alexis Daria 47:45 / #
So the first one is a pie pie baking competition. And she's like, I can't believe I have to make this fucking pie for these men. But it's a good ass pie. I was thinking, "This woman has better things to do than making a pie. She's busy." Her pie is next to this other lady's, who clearly needs help and is in more dire straits than she is. And her pie sucks. So she swaps her pie. And he notices that, he's like, "Oh my god, she's amazing." And then the other thing is carrying water, and she helps the woman carry the water. So she's very good-hearted. But from there on, It's just the emotions really get you. She's got these two younger sisters. And the king starts to really think they're adorable, too. And she's very concerned about what values she's showing her sisters, which is why she won't be his mistress. She's like: not that there's anything wrong with that. But that's not what I'm trying to do.
Jennifer Prokop 48:41 / #
One of the things that's really interesting about these books is in a typical romance setup, there's the seeds of misunderstanding are sown, And then the hero doesn't believe the heroine, right? But in these books, the hero always is like, "she would never fucking do that. So something else must be going on." Like, there's not just like, instant love, but there's also instant trust. And so there's one for example where I think it's called, Oh, THE PERFECT GIFT, where her sisters are like, "you have to go catch this really rich man and trap him." And she is like, "but I'm in love with him." Right? She falls in love with him. And he, and then they're texting her like, "have you done it yet?" And, and she is so freaked out. She's like, "I'm going to go see my sisters and tell them that I'm not going to do this." And he finds the phone with these really incriminating texts. And he's like, instantly like, MMMM, And he's like, "wait, no, she would never do this." Right. And so then he goes down and to prove his love to her, He fucks her in front of the sisters.
Adriana Herrera 49:49 / #
Yeah, as you do.
Sarah MacLean 49:52 / #
very reasonable.
Nisha Sharma 49:54 / #
are these young children?
Adriana Herrera 49:57 / #
Okay, no.
Andie Christopher 49:57 / #
they are evil olders sisters
LaQuette 50:10 / #
I have brothers and sisters this is not somthing that would ever happen.
Alexis Daria 50:15 / #
"So of course she doesn't want to be my mistress. Yeah, like, how could I have just asked her out right like that, that was so rude of me" So he goes, and he's like, I had a terrible childhood. And she's like, I feel so bad for you someday you're gonna find a woman you can really love without that. And then she leaves, because she's still not going to be his mistress. I would say the first third was very funny and a little bit silly. But then after that, I was just completely hooked in the story, because all of the emotional beats are there.
Sarah MacLean 50:46 / #
This is the crazy thing. Yeah, this is the wild thing about these books is, so HER 2, Her number 2 PROTECTORS, which is about a girl whose father was in the mafia, and her house gets set on fire, and she's asleep and like half naked asleep, and in come two brawny firemen who collect her and they're together when they see her. So they see her at the exact same time, right?
Sarah MacLean 51:21 / #
Exactly LaQuette, because we know that that's how it works.
Adriana Herrera 51:27 / #
It's like there's an imprinting that happened
Sarah MacLean 51:30 / #
It's fated mates. Every one of these books,
Nisha Sharma 51:33 / #
every single one of them.
Sarah MacLean 51:35 / #
And so the two of them [HER 2 PROTECTORS] So one carries her while the other one axes his way out of the burning building. And then they're like-- and the dad's dying. And he's like, "you got to take care of her." And they're like, yes. And so they just immediately take her to one of their houses and then all three of them are living together. And there's some kind of, swords do not cross in this, or the other one, well because they're brothers. I read both of the menages
Jennifer Prokop 52:02 / #
I will say, though, it is highly implied in the one with the actual real brothers [SUDDENLY THIERS] and then the step sister that they're crossing off page.
Sarah MacLean 52:13 / #
Oh, boy.
Jennifer Prokop 52:18 / #
it was too much for me!
Sarah MacLean 52:23 / #
No, but in this firemen one. So here's the thing, so I'm reading it and I'm like, Okay, cool. And then there's a little bit of, I wish she was mine alone. I wish she was mine alone Alpha douchebaggery. but then she's like, I need you both, You both give me different things. And then the older one is like, "I'll be your daddy and he could be your brother." And I'm like, "Oh, what?!" I was not prepared for this by the group! , but I'm gonna read the rest of it. I don't even know Myself.
Adriana Herrera 52:52 / #
That's me like 89% of the time reading these stories. I'm like, this is not okay. But I will continue to read this.
Jennifer Prokop 53:01 / #
Right? Yeah, sure. So
Andie Christopher 53:03 / #
we're talking about starter Jessa Kanes. There is one series that I think it's A PINCH OF SUGAR, which is a program and they're super filthy. When they're not.
Jennifer Prokop 53:20 / #
There's, um, they're all strangers to each other.
Andie Christopher 53:25 / #
They're all strangers. They see each other.
Adriana Herrera 53:34 / #
The series is called Lights, camera, Instalove.
Sarah MacLean 53:38 / #
I'm getting them.
Jennifer Prokop 53:40 / #
There you go. clear up some room in Kindle Unlimited.
Sarah MacLean 53:42 / #
Joanna? What about you.
Joanna Shupe 53:48 / #
So I think my, my favorite one, my gateway was THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE which I know is
Nisha Sharma 53:56 / #
don't be touching my book, Joanna.
Sarah MacLean 53:58 / #
It's a weird title.
Joanna Shupe 54:01 / #
What I love is like every title is exactly what You get. The titles are spot on. The covers are spot on. I also love that. When you read it... I will read a description of a Jessa Kane book and I'll be like, is that really? Is that for me? And then I'll start reading it. And there's another four tropes in there that are me that were not in the description. It's like she has a trope wheel in her writing room and she spins it and sees what it lands on. She's like "billionaire," done. Spin again. "Exhibitionism," spin it again, "daddy kink," done, spin it, done. And it works! So like, SUDDENLY HIS is my favorite, which is the one where she goes out with her girlfriends. They take her to a sex auction. Then they find out she's a virgin and she can't leave. So she's got to sell her virginity because she needs the money. And guess what? There's a billionaire who's secretly in love with her and he shows up and buys her, and they have to have sex in front of his buyer.
Andie Christopher 55:10 / #
His butler calls him because he's been following her.
Sarah MacLean 55:14 / #
Butler?.
Adriana Herrera 55:15 / #
Saturday night in Manhattan.
Joanna Shupe 55:17 / #
It's a PI. It's a private investigator that's trailing her. He's like, Hey, you got to get over here but
Sarah MacLean 55:22 / #
I'd rather it was a butler, honestly.
LaQuette 55:28 / #
Just thinking it's like Albert calling Bruce Wayne.
Joanna Shupe 55:35 / #
It's his Man, his man is there.
Andie Christopher 55:41 / #
Like, it could be Batman fanfic.We don't know.
Adriana Herrera 55:45 / #
It could it be his consigliere because it couldn't be a mafia boss. It doesn't matter.
Alexis Daria 55:57 / #
You know what I though, if she rewrote the same story on reality show or at a Ren faire? I would still read it both ways.
Joanna Shupe 56:04 / #
Yeah, absolutely.
Adriana Herrera 56:06 / #
Yeah, QUEEN SIZE is time travel. Tessa, If you're watching this. Give me the time travel.
Sarah MacLean 56:16 / #
Time travel! She just needs to add time travel to the trope wheel.
LaQuette 56:21 / #
I want An alien
Sarah MacLean 56:23 / #
[laughs] an alien.
Jennifer Prokop 56:24 / #
Alien seems destined for the trope wheel? Oh, wait, Nisha, you want to talk about THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE? Since it was brought up?
Nisha Sharma 56:32 / #
I took notes.
Adriana Herrera 56:34 / #
Of course you did?
Andie Christopher 56:38 / #
We know you. Of course you took notes. We love it.
Sarah MacLean 56:41 / #
Nisha's in charge always
Nisha Sharma 56:42 / #
I love THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE because it exactly exactly speaks to my Id. First of all, yes, there's obviously mafia involved. But it's, the the hero goes in for a massage. That his best friend got him for his birthday. And he has no intention of taking the massage. He's like, oh, she'll just play on her phone in the corner. And I'll sit in the corner and just work and we'll pretend that we got it because I would never turn my back to the door or be vulnerable. I can never be vulnerable. I love that. So he sees her, Fated Mates instant love. And he's like, will you grant me the honor of massaging you?
LaQuette 57:29 / #
from the waist down.
Sarah MacLean 57:33 / #
It's just a service. It's him being magnanimous and wanting her to have pleasure. That's it has nothing to do with him. Yeah.
Nisha Sharma 57:41 / #
He gives her, he's like, I'll give you whatever money you want. And she's like, okay,
Andie Christopher 57:47 / #
To massage her!
Alexis Daria 57:50 / #
And a massage.
Nisha Sharma 57:51 / #
Wait, what?.
Alexis Daria 57:52 / #
She's getting money and a massage?
Nisha Sharma 57:54 / #
She's getting money and a massage... on her vagina.
Tracey Livesay 58:00 / #
that's a Massage
Nisha Sharma 58:01 / #
It is obviously orgasmic and she's a virgin. And she's like, "if this is what I've been missing, and you know, obviously, yes, let's go all the way." And fabulous because Jessa Kane, she writes in the story this one line that I kind of think epitomizes a lot of the way that she uses language across all of her books, which is "I say the things that I say to shock her into remembering me forever." And it's like, Okay, well that makes sense to me. Because the way that Jessa Kane uses language in a lot of these high tension / high passion scenes is very much shock value and I 100% remember it. It's like, she calls a vagina a gash multiple times. And it's like, what?
Adriana Herrera 59:02 / #
it's very primal.
Jennifer Prokop 59:03 / #
Yeah, well.
Nisha Sharma 59:05 / #
I'm like, Oh, this is, well hello. And it's great. And then the best part about THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE is okay, instant love. Then of course she's in danger. And then he goes to her. He's like, ride my-- there's like a bunch of stuff that happens, romance things happen-- And then there's a scene towards the end where they've declared their love for each other. And he's like, "ride me. I just killed someone for you." And she's totally turned on by it. And like, just score and she's like, "yes, you killed someone for me. I'm all about it." And then he's like "you have to call me your king." And she's like, "yep I'm on it. Yes." calling you King. And he's like, "I'm going to fill you up with your your tummy's favorite juice."
Tracey Livesay 1:00:03 / #
No, thank you.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:07 / #
Wait! Actually the word "Tummy."
Nisha Sharma 1:00:11 / #
I have to do a search for it.
Jennifer Prokop 1:00:13 / #
Oh my god,
Adriana Herrera 1:00:14 / #
But you know what? I was thinking yesterday when I was trying to explain to my spouse Jessa Kane. I was like, imagine if 80s movies had just a lot of sex. Like imagine Grease with a ton of boning. Shit is happening, a crazy ass thing is happening, like there's a car coming down from the sky. Oh, there's Frankie Valli. And then there's...
Nisha Sharma 1:00:38 / #
She actually uses the word "Tummy" like I highlighted it. It's "eat it all up. There you go gorgeous. Take it down. Let it work its magic in your tummy."
Tracey Livesay 1:00:50 / #
That's not how it works.
Nisha Sharma 1:00:57 / #
at the end, the last line of the book, in the epilogue is she tells him "breed me, my king."
Adriana Herrera 1:01:06 / #
But hey, let's be honest. What is this be exactly, Let's say, how Sonny Corleone would be with his mistress?
Adriana Herrera 1:01:17 / #
This is literally what Sonny...
LaQuette 1:01:22 / #
He would have more finesse.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:26 / #
No. Sonny would!?
LaQuette 1:01:30 / #
He was very crude, but he was he wasn't that corny is what I'm saying.
Sarah MacLean 1:01:35 / #
He would never say "tummy." Sonny Corleone would not say tummy.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:40 / #
He would not say "tummy." that would be Fredo.
LaQuette 1:01:48 / #
Fredo, yes.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:49 / #
Oh, okay. Great. This is Fredo's story.
Jennifer Prokop 1:01:52 / #
I will say, if you are ever are unsure of how to define "daddy" for someone Jessa Kane has done it for us in the book HIS PRIZE PUPIL. I literally, when I read this, and I was like, "I'm gonna go ahead and highlight this because if I ever need to describe to anybody I will." So she's of course about to sell her virginity, same dealeo, right? She goes into this room, and the madam is giving her essentially a crash course in Daddy, and she is like, what is this gonna mean? And so Estelle, that's the madam says, "Look dear. I don't have time for a long psychology lesson. So here's the condensed version. A father is an accountant in a sweater vest who yawns through her dance recitals. A daddy pulls your hair, fucks you on your hands and knees, then buys you a pretty necklace. There's a difference. You're allowed to enjoy it."
Sarah MacLean 1:02:42 / #
That's a great line.
Andie Christopher 1:02:43 / #
I'm addending that to the definition of stern brunch Daddy, a Daddy who buys your brunch? And then does the rest of that. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 1:02:58 / #
But I was like, there it is, right there. I mean, so this is like, someone who is very in touch with exactly what it is. Like when we, especially those tropes because there really is a core story here. Or there's several of them, I think, but a lot of it is just like, like the Fated Mates instant lust. Like we will instantly both fall in love with each other. Nothing will stand in our way
Sarah MacLean 1:03:25 / #
I have questions about MY HUSBAND, MY STALKER, which I have not read
Andie Christopher 1:03:31 / #
I read that.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:31 / #
Largely because the title freaks me out.
Joanna Shupe 1:03:35 / #
Yeah, but on Amazon It has the most reviews of any of her books, that is the most highly reviewed.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:44 / #
So tell me about it, Joanne Shupe.
Jennifer Prokop 1:03:53 / #
Okay, this one, again, I was like, I'm gonna read them all. Because I know that even if I'm like, "there's no fucking way!" I'm gonna be like, "Alright, it was fine." He is, he saw her on TV, I think. And instantly Of course, fell in love with her.
Sarah MacLean 1:04:08 / #
Yep.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:09 / #
And what is... then he essentially finds a way to essentially meet her. And marry, He meets her and marries her.
Joanna Shupe 1:04:19 / #
He tells her he's an insurance salesman or something.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:22 / #
Yeah, exactly. And, and really, he's a hitman, I think right? And so I was like, he's a cop?
Adriana Herrera 1:04:28 / #
That was a TV show in the 80s.
Sarah MacLean 1:04:31 / #
They are always also a hitman. All of them are also a hitman.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:35 / #
That's it. This woman [Jessa Kane] is definitely my age, these 80s tropes are really in their heart. Yes. So essentially, he dates her under this assumed identity and marries her. And she doesn't realize that he essentially kind of stalked her, like he fell in love with her from afar. And then when she goes off to work and does her things during the day if he does not have any assassinations planned, he will instead follow her around and keep an eye on her.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:17 / #
Can we just, I wish that the people listening could see Jen face, because she's got her full on middle school teacher. Right now as she's talking about this Hitman stalker.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:31 / #
I know, I'm like and then the symbolism is...
Sarah MacLean 1:05:35 / #
she's like animals are symbols.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:36 / #
All animals are gonna fall in love with you.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:41 / #
I would really like to talk about THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:48 / #
Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 1:05:49 / #
Look at Nisha! Yeah!
Joanna Shupe 1:05:51 / #
that's a good one.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:53 / #
My favorites.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:55 / #
I think it's the one that's, other than HEFTY, which I've discussed and I enjoyed very much and that was really sweet. THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS was so mind blowing to me, because it is so it's like, okay: you're telling me he's a kingpin, but you're presenting me with an angsty cinnamon roll. That's like, that's what I'm getting. You can tell me he's the greatest criminal mind in modern time.
Sarah MacLean 1:06:30 / #
Wait, can we talk about his name, which is Easton Brawn with a W?
Adriana Herrera 1:06:36 / #
Easter Brawn
Sarah MacLean 1:06:39 / #
Because name is destiny.
Adriana Herrera 1:06:39 / #
Who thinks of himself as the greatest criminal mind in modern history. And he is at the MMA fight in his box. I personally have never been to an MMA fight, so I don't know if they have VIP boxes, I assume they do. So he sees her, then asks his man to bring her up to him, which you know, checks out very 80s, very 80s, very 80s. I imagine him in a shiny gray suit. So they bring her up to him. And then immediately, you know, he wants her but she's,
Nisha Sharma 1:07:22 / #
you have to start with her passing out.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:26 / #
she passes out when she realizes it's him because everybody knows Easton is the greatest criminal mind in modern history. She passes out.
Jennifer Prokop 1:07:37 / #
She read a profile of him from New York magazine or something.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:40 / #
She passes out?
Sarah MacLean 1:07:41 / #
Wait, she read a profile of him.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:44 / #
Everybody knows. Everybody knows him.
Sarah MacLean 1:07:47 / #
I don't know, Jen. It all feels plausible.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:50 / #
He's from the underworld, but everybody knows him. Everybody knows about him. and he's so handsome too. Like, he should not be this... anyway. So she goes up, she passes out then you know he wants to fuck her of course. But then she tells him she's a virgin. So he was like, Well, let me take you out on a quick date first.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:14 / #
Somebody should buy you dinner.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:16 / #
I don't want to take your flower without buying you dinner. So they go and they get in the car.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:22 / #
What a gentleman!
Andie Christopher 1:08:24 / #
Do they unshell the lobster while they're still on the way to the restaurant?
Adriana Herrera 1:08:30 / #
On the way to the date, she's like, "oh, shoot, my sister. My dad sold her. So if the one guy wins the fight, she has to go with him. And can you find out who won the fight?" So I'm like, okay, but your sister like you left her? so anyway...
Nisha Sharma 1:08:51 / #
It crosses with THE FIGHTER'S PRIZE.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:53 / #
The FIGHTER'S PRIZE, right?
Sarah MacLean 1:08:54 / #
That's where they fucking in front of the priest later?
Nisha Sharma 1:08:57 / #
No, they fuck in front of the dad and the competitor.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:59 / #
Dad.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:59 / #
Yes. Yeah. But I mean, in hindsight, the stakes were a little bit different so it was not... anyway, so her sister could have been sold but she was on a date. She was gonna check in.
Sarah MacLean 1:09:14 / #
It worked out fine.
Nisha Sharma 1:09:16 / #
they didn't like the date place. So they went to like her watering hole
Adriana Herrera 1:09:20 / #
her watering hole
Nisha Sharma 1:09:21 / #
She is like 18 years old, By the way.
Adriana Herrera 1:09:23 / #
Everybody knows her because her dad who's like a deadbeat who sold her sister was like a patron in this watering hole type pub. Everybody knows it's him. But they're like, oh, look how sweet he is with her. So I guess it's fine that he's the greatest criminal mind in modern history. He's dating this little, I can't even remember, she'll be 19
Sarah MacLean 1:09:47 / #
they are all 18
Adriana Herrera 1:09:49 / #
she's in college.
LaQuette 1:09:50 / #
She's 19 maybe
Sarah MacLean 1:09:53 / #
they have to be...
Jennifer Prokop 1:09:55 / #
The sisters is 18
Sarah MacLean 1:09:56 / #
Super fertile because the id list, I mean like the only thing that is on every one of these id lists is she's got to get bred and I
Adriana Herrera 1:10:06 / #
happen like, waiting nights.
Sarah MacLean 1:10:09 / #
I know anybody who has children is like no thank you
LaQuette 1:10:13 / #
I feel like there's just, Jessa Kane, we have to talk about some of these things that she's been writing.
Sarah MacLean 1:10:19 / #
But this breeding thing is really to me, we've never talked, we've talked about it sort of vaguely on the podcast, the breeding thing, but like, it is a thing. It is like a real kink. That like a lot of
Adriana Herrera 1:10:31 / #
like, the omega verse is all about being bred like, yeah, it's literally millions of people read these.
Jennifer Prokop 1:10:42 / #
I'm gonna tell you I had to take to my bed when I had this realization. This is not an exaggeration. I read all these fucking books. And the one that is like a hardcore no go for me is the one where they're in high school. Now, part of this is because I have a son in high school and I was like, this is really fucking gross. And then I was like, these are the only two that are actually age appropriate. This is age appropriate for this eighteen year old to be with another eighteen year old, but I'm so grossed out by it, and instead I'm reading all the books where she is 18 and he is like 30 and then I had to like lay down
LaQuette 1:11:11 / #
You just have to come to terms with that.
Adriana Herrera 1:11:16 / #
No no HUSKY, their age difference.
Sarah MacLean 1:11:19 / #
What did you say? Alexis?
Alexis Daria 1:11:20 / #
In HUSKY, she's like, 21 Oh,
Sarah MacLean 1:11:24 / #
In QUEEN SIZED, she's 21. She's practically on the shelf.
Alexis Daria 1:11:27 / #
An old lady.
Adriana Herrera 1:11:29 / #
She's a
Sarah MacLean 1:11:31 / #
spinster.
Andie Christopher 1:11:32 / #
So okay, so can I just interject? I'm just, I'm just sitting here thinking about after this pandemic is over, after we can leave our houses again, after I can date again. I'm gonna have to tell Adriana about my dates.
LaQuette 1:11:53 / #
Why is it that only Adriana gets to hear though?
Sarah MacLean 1:11:56 / #
Yeah, I mean, why can't we just do this?
Andie Christopher 1:12:02 / #
Adriana is gonna be the one who is like, wait, he took you where?
Sarah MacLean 1:12:06 / #
No, it's gonna be like that one time. Do you guys remember the one time
Adriana Herrera 1:12:10 / #
Where did he take you before you gave him your flower?
Andie Christopher 1:12:17 / #
the pandemic flower
Sarah MacLean 1:12:19 / #
No, everyone, there was a time when LaQuette was like I have something to say. And literally, it was like, Oh, I envision the video of that montage in the film of us all, like leaping over furniture to get to our zoom. It's gonna be like that, Andie, every time you have a date, we're gonna leap over furniture to get to the zoom.
Adriana Herrera 1:12:40 / #
We're gonna have to start a whole new texting thread just for your date.
Sarah MacLean 1:12:43 / #
Because we don't have enough
Nisha Sharma 1:12:46 / #
Can we get back to THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS where he basically is like, I killed for you. And she's like, I'm so turned on! Andie, just make sure it's not that
Sarah MacLean 1:13:00 / #
I've got to say though, that works for me, if somebody killed for me, I probably do the same. It's hot.
Adriana Herrera 1:13:08 / #
if you're dating, if you're dating the greatest criminal mind.
Sarah MacLean 1:13:14 / #
He better kill For me, he better kill for me. It's Chekov's Gun is right there on the table.
Jennifer Prokop 1:13:21 / #
I could come back from the dead. She would thank him after he killed all those people. That is just how it goes.
Alexis Daria 1:13:28 / #
Yep. Yeah. As an aside, I was listening to Joanna's book. What was the third one in the Uptown Girls trilogy?
Jennifer Prokop 1:13:36 / #
The Devil of Downtown.
Alexis Daria 1:13:36 / #
I was listening to the audio book without headphones on while doing a puzzle, and my boyfriend was in the room, and they were describing him, Jack?
Adriana Herrera 1:13:51 / #
He dirty.
Alexis Daria 1:13:52 / #
He was the biggest criminal mastermind in all of New York City. And he also spoke 12 languages and played the piano like a god and my boyfriend was like...what?!
Sarah MacLean 1:14:03 / #
I mean when Jack killed you're like, what can we do? Can I get On top of him right now? Yeah, jack doesn't have to say it though. I would know I'd be like, Jack I saw what you did.
Andie Christopher 1:14:16 / #
I need to see the Uptown girls on Netflix.
Adriana Herrera 1:14:20 / #
Oh my god. Oh, yeah, please, please.
Sarah MacLean 1:14:23 / #
Where do I sign that change.org petition
Adriana Herrera 1:14:26 / #
The only person I would let have Henry Cavill for that part Is you, for Jack.
Jennifer Prokop 1:14:36 / #
Another really weird thing I love about Jessa Kane books that has nothing to do with any of the sex stuff. A lot of these bitches have real interesting jobs. And I just appreciate that. There is one where the woman wants to be a roller coaster designer,
Jennifer Prokop 1:14:54 / #
You know what, this is fucking great because again, it reminds me a lot of 80s romances where they all have, they want to go to school, you know what I mean? And not all of them, sometimes they're just ingenues, but this one with the roller coaster designer I was like that is so nice and specific.
Sarah MacLean 1:15:10 / #
In THEIR SUMMER INTERN, she is a bungee jumping tester. She tests the bungee jumping harness.
Adriana Herrera 1:15:21 / #
You know Jessa is watching National Geographic and being like I'm gonna make the next one a bungee jumper,
Sarah MacLean 1:15:27 / #
But, you guys it all ties together, it's just very clever. She's testing the harness and then their evil mother, she rigs the harness and there she is just dangling off the edge of a bungee cord. Luckily, she has upper body strength for days, able to hang on and twist herself into it like an aerialist. And then they pull her up, and they're so upset and then they go fuck her. They take her home, they fuck her, they go after their mother who then like somehow escapes jail, or makes bail and gets out, and then finds her and tries to drown her in a swimming pool. But then, they get there, too.
Alexis Daria 1:16:08 / #
Which book is this?
Sarah MacLean 1:16:10 / #
THEIR SUMMER INTERN.
Tracey Livesay 1:16:14 / #
I was like, it could be HER 2 PROTECTORS, it's all, it all of them. Are
LaQuette 1:16:17 / #
Are there any like relatives in this with the intern?
Sarah MacLean 1:16:20 / #
Yeah, two brothers! LaQuette, I know. I'm so sorry. I'm very gauche.
Andie Christopher 1:16:32 / #
I literally read these and I'm like, Oh, that's gonna be a problem for me. And by the end of the book it's not.
Sarah MacLean 1:16:37 / #
And then I'm like, sure.
Adriana Herrera 1:16:39 / #
You know what, I feel like there's just, first of all, and again, this is what I have discovered about myself with taboo romance. You give it to me, in short, short, small portions. I can roll with most things.
Sarah MacLean 1:16:53 / #
You can't put it down, that the trick. If you put it down, you're not going back.
Alexis Daria 1:16:57 / #
I was thinking about how we're telling a lot about these stories, but we're barely scratching the surface of what is happening in these books. And they're a dollar!
Alexis Daria 1:17:11 / #
99 cents or you can get it for free on KU.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:14 / #
In HIS SUMMER INTERN, she escapes and asylum! they've been keeping her captive!
Sarah MacLean 1:17:23 / #
WHAT! and then she becomes an author's
Jennifer Prokop 1:17:25 / #
No, she runs away and she stumbles across his cottage
Joanna Shupe 1:17:29 / #
in the woods.
Jennifer Prokop 1:17:30 / #
And he thinks, Oh, this is my intern.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:34 / #
And he's like, wait a minute, she's not but I'm not gonna tell her I know, because I'm really into her.
Alexis Daria 1:17:40 / #
Because now he's in love with her already.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:42 / #
He's imprinted on her
Alexis Daria 1:17:45 / #
there's a lot of cabins in the woods.
Sarah MacLean 1:17:47 / #
As a Life PSA, you should not be interning with a survivalist author in the woods. Like if you get that internship you need to not go
Joanna Shupe 1:17:59 / #
that's the unabomber right there.
Adriana Herrera 1:18:01 / #
Yes, yes.
Andie Christopher 1:18:03 / #
Can we talk about THE LONER'S LADY, with like the girl who went to her like, Oh, she was pretending to be this, young gay man's. She was a beard.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:17 / #
Right. Wait, it's her and her best friend.
Andie Christopher 1:18:19 / #
It's her and her best friend, going to visit his dad because he didn't think his dad would accept him for who he was. But it turns out that the dad knew [he was gay] and he was like, "that's cool, whatever." And but then the dad was like, but I want to fuck your best friend.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:39 / #
Yeah, and the best part is the friend kind of sees the attraction between these two and pretends to have a bunch of homework. So those two can get it on all over the woods.
Sarah MacLean 1:18:50 / #
Is this another Jessa Kane book that we're talking about? [it is! The Loner's Lady]
Adriana Herrera 1:18:53 / #
Yes. Yes. And also there's a lot of having sex on the grass.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:58 / #
Yes. Oh, God she can do anything
Sarah MacLean 1:19:00 / #
Very outdoors, against the house. against a tree.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:05 / #
Yeah.
Andie Christopher 1:19:08 / #
A lot of things that would chafe.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:10 / #
There's a line, there's a line in PREACHER MAN when he tells her, "I've come so many times against your house, like the wall of your house, I've worn down the paint." And I told myself, "the quarantine has done things to you Adriana."
Tracey Livesay 1:19:39 / #
It's not healthy.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:44 / #
Look at Tracey! It's not healthy, it's not.
Sarah MacLean 1:19:47 / #
Tracey is concerned about his liquid intake.
Tracey Livesay 1:19:53 / #
Also, they have a lot. There's always like there's so much
Adriana Herrera 1:19:58 / #
Oh yeah. Mmm, hmm. there's a very like Pornhub feel to it.
Sarah MacLean 1:20:04 / #
Like a sprinkler like a garden sprinkler.
Tracey Livesay 1:20:07 / #
A gusher. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 1:20:12 / #
A friend of mine read some romance for the first time and she was like, there's a lot of really weird things about romance like, but one is the idea that like individual jets of sperm can be felt.
Adriana Herrera 1:20:28 / #
we roll with it.
Andie Christopher 1:20:31 / #
LaQuette is Done with all of us. She's like,
Sarah MacLean 1:20:36 / #
I would like my voice removed, my track removed.
Adriana Herrera 1:20:41 / #
Take My square out.
Sarah MacLean 1:20:43 / #
LaQuette is president of RWA
LaQuette 1:20:46 / #
I am not the president of RWA, I am the president elect of RWA
LaQuette 1:20:52 / #
either way, If you like it, I love it.
LaQuette 1:20:55 / #
I don't you know, I don't yuck on other people's yum.
Jennifer Prokop 1:20:59 / #
Back when we did the pegging episode, Sarah. Yeah. I just feel like maybe this is like our New Year's plan is
Sarah MacLean 1:21:10 / #
Oh, well, this is what I was gonna say. Right? Well, yeah, we we are putting this episode out on New Year's Eve as like, last year, we did pegging on New Year's Eve and we put it out a little early on New Year's Eve. So this year, we'll do the same and it'll be like the fun kind of raunchy episode for New Year's Eve, but it was really fun. And maybe we just have this crew back every year.
Joanna Shupe 1:21:34 / #
I don't think Jessa has pegging on the trope wheel.
Andie Christopher 1:21:37 / #
She doesn't!
Adriana Herrera 1:21:39 / #
She should put it in.
Nisha Sharma 1:21:40 / #
Yeah, I want to call her and tell her aliens and pegging
Sarah MacLean 1:21:43 / #
time travel pegging. I'd have
Adriana Herrera 1:21:47 / #
Barbs. pegging aliens.
Alexis Daria 1:21:50 / #
I thought QUEEN SIZE was gonna go there because she was like, can't get my virginity because I got to participate in the stupid wife auction. And like, they kind of like skirted around that like, oh, maybe this, but like they didn't do that they did something else instead.
Adriana Herrera 1:22:06 / #
I mean, if she needs to take it to pegging, she should just take it and normalize it
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:14 / #
it's 2021 So yeah, that's, I guess. Okay.
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:18 / #
And so we have time travel , pegging , aliens , Barbs, those go together.What else?
Sarah MacLean 1:22:24 / #
Wait, can I ask the teacher one is HIS PRIZE PUPIL but they're not really teacher student.
Joanna Shupe 1:22:29 / #
So they are.
Andie Christopher 1:22:30 / #
they eventually are. Yeah.
Joanna Shupe 1:22:33 / #
Not at first
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:33 / #
She's taking a photography class from him. And he is her
Joanna Shupe 1:22:37 / #
she's got to sell her virginity. So she ends up at the town, Like madam's, you know, place.
Sarah MacLean 1:22:45 / #
every town has a madam.
LaQuette 1:22:47 / #
It's Always transactional, like why?
Adriana Herrera 1:22:55 / #
I honestly think Jessa has her ID list, laminated and on the wall of her desks. And it's like, it's like 10 things and that's what she's doing.
Jennifer Prokop 1:23:07 / #
It's like a deck of cards and she just shuffles.
Alexis Daria 1:23:09 / #
So that's all of our homework assignment is to like print out our ID list.
Joanna Shupe 1:23:13 / #
Yeah, make me into a wheel.
Adriana Herrera 1:23:17 / #
I don't have a wheel but I might do that. That's a good idea.
Joanna Shupe 1:23:27 / #
For whatever you come up with, take three or four of them, make them work somehow
Sarah MacLean 1:23:32 / #
that moment when you get stuck at the end of a chapter and you're like what comes next just spin the wheel done.
Nisha Sharma 1:23:38 / #
So for...
Sarah MacLean 1:23:39 / #
virginity sale
Nisha Sharma 1:23:41 / #
I think what we should do is we should get our ID list together and create summaries of stories and in 2021 be like, is this a Jessa Kane book or not? Or is that like part of Nisha's ID?
Sarah MacLean 1:23:54 / #
Yes, very fun. Anyway, we hope that Jessa Kane, This episode was really done out of love. Jessa if you are listening, we really do love you and we're we think that you're fabulous. If you've never read a Jessa Kane book, you can get them all on Kindle Unlimited, except for the one where they fuck in front of a priest, which you have to get on iBooks.
Sarah MacLean 1:24:26 / #
Sorry, what did you say Jen?
Jennifer Prokop 1:24:29 / #
There is a second Jessa Kane / Alexa Riley crossover book that is also available on iBooks only because Alexa Riley, you know,
Sarah MacLean 1:24:36 / #
isn't in Kindle so you can do that. They are all on Kindle Unlimited, but you don't have to have Kindle unlimited. You can also buy them for 99 cents a pop on your Kindle.
Jennifer Prokop 1:24:51 / #
This is like, you know, deplatforming of certain Jessa Kane books out of your Kindle unlimited library. They just stay there forever. Yeah, I believe
Andie Christopher 1:25:01 / #
These books literally became a part of my soul during quarantine. I mean they probably really are really going to send me to hell.
Andie Christopher 1:25:10 / #
but we are also
Adriana Herrera 1:25:16 / #
There's no Hell in Jessa Kane's universe.
Sarah MacLean 1:25:18 / #
No, no, no. We are releasing this early on New Year's Eve. So if you have nothing to do this New Year's Eve if you are in your house quarantining and being safe, we hope you are being safe and everybody's being healthy and wearing their masks and if you're in your house and you're looking for something to do, you can read like five or 10 of these tonight.
Andie Christopher 1:25:42 / #
Charge your Lelo vibrators before you download.
Nisha Sharma 1:25:49 / #
Plug everything in, sanitize, please.
Adriana Herrera 1:25:55 / #
Be sanitar!
Tracey Livesay 1:25:57 / #
I just went Oh boy.
Sarah MacLean 1:26:00 / #
No, this has been Andie Christopher and Joanna Shoop and Alexis Daria and Nisha Sharma and Tracey Livesey and LaQuette and Adriana Herrera. I'm Sarah MacLean. Jen is Jen reads romance. And this has been a very special episode of drunk romance history and Fated Mates, watch drunk romance history at Andie's Instagram feed. Andie, where can people find you?
Adriana Herrera 1:26:28 / #
ATauthor AndieJ. Almost everyone on this chat has been on drunk romance history. Joanna is scheduled in January, Alexis, we're still putting you down. You're gonna get Valentine's Day just so you know.
Alexis Daria 1:26:45 / #
I still have to pick a book.
Sarah MacLean 1:26:47 / #
But we will put on show notes for Fated Mates. We will put links to everybody's drunk romance history. We'll put links to everybody's website so that you can find all these people in their amazing books. These are some of our favorite people. And we are so excited. Thank you all for making time for us this week on a holiday week.
Jennifer Prokop 1:27:05 / #
Yeah. I'm gonna get off the phone and we're gonna make the Jessa Kane trope wheel, have you have that. And then to help us with the making the spreadsheet pretty and that's all going to be amazing.
Sarah MacLean 1:27:17 / #
And you can find us at Fated mates.net and Happy New Year everyone makes 2021
S02.17: Pegging Romance
It’s the start of a new year, Romance is on fire, and we all need a palate cleanser, so we’re doing it right, with the bonus episode that was an item in the Romance for RAICES auction, hosted by Love in Panels. The bidding didn’t go quite the way we expected but we are honestly thrilled, because we were a tiny part of raising $23,000 for refugee services and immigrant families on the border. Please donate early and often to RAICES and The Young Center for Immigrant Children’s Rights.
Please welcome friend of the pod, Sierra Simone, for our very special Pegging Episode (And thank you to the Pegging Collective for your generous donation, and for being wonderful listeners)!
Auspicious beginning, right? Don’t miss a single moment of our 2020 episodes — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast if you’re so inclined!
We’re back next week (WE PROMISE!) with Born in Ice, by none other than the queen herself, Nora Roberts. Read Born in Ice at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
Show Notes
Jen misquoted a famous scene in Chinatown; it's actually "my sister and my daughter." Yikes.
Pretty sure if you're fancasting us into this clip from Grease about the Pink Ladies, Sierra is Rizzo.
We've talked a lot about Sierra's books on the podcast, but it was on the Small Town Romance interstitial that Sarah joked all of Sierra's books take place in Menage County, Kansas. [14]: https://twitter.com/JenReadsRomance/status/1212092587114467329 The Romance for RAICES auction was the brainchild of Suzanne from Love in Panels and raised TWENTY THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS! You should definitely support her blog and patreon if you can. The crisis on the border is ongoing and getting worse. Please continue to support romance's teams at RAICES and The Young Center.
We were going to rickroll you by talking about Peggy Sue Got Married and pirate romances, but we're nice that way and didn't. FWIW, Jen still thinks the plot of Peggy Sue Got Married is haunting.
Sierra is also, of course, the founder, owner, and operator of [The Simone Scale][14], which does not include teabagging even, but has been, because she loves us, updated to include pegging. The image is on our website in show notes.
Everyone wants the right pegging playlist, and of course there's one on Spotify. What a world! Besides Ariana Grande's Dangerous Woman, we offer up for your consideration Back It Up, Boys by Peaches and Behind the Wheel by Depeche Mode.
Here are some Sierra Simone recommended [toys ][24]and [harnesses][25]. She says of the toys, "The small is VERY gently sized and some men may feel more comfortable with a toy is that isn’t a hyper-realistic reproduction of a cock." [24]: https://www.tantusinc.com/collections/dildos/products/silk-small [25]: https://www.myspare.com/product/joque
Elia Winters is a Fated Mates favorite, and we want to thank her for her help thinking through the implicatons for gender essentialism and cisnormativity in this discussion. Buy her books! Her latest Three For All has pegging.
Sierra mentioned "that law about gas expanding to fill a space" -- well, I phoned Jonathan, a friend who teaches chemistry, and he says that's called entropy or Boyles Law of Kinetic Molecular Theory. Learn more about it here from Professor Dave, a Jonathan-approved chemistry youtube instructor.
Samhain and Ellora's Cave (which was especially messy) were two earlier and now shuttered publishers of erotic romance.
Jen Porter wrote a great twitter thread about erotic romance and character development.
Sarah mentioned "the RITA entry window" and goddamn if that's not a bitter pill to swallow right now. She's sorry.
A little about what it means to be allosexual.
Check out Roan Parrish's short story A Good Old Fashioned Chanukah Pegging, starring Ginger and Christopher from Small Change.
Everyone knows you need a flared base on your butt plugs, or at least anyone who follows Jenny Nordbak knows.
Romance as sex ed is complicated, but Scarlteen is on the job, and Teen Vogue would never steer you wrong.
The Pegging Song that Adriana sent us from Twitter is amazing, and we want to thank @shutupaida for being so gracious about letting us play it during the podcast. Also, be sure to watch Big Mouth on Netflix, because she's writing for it now!
I guess Katee Robert isn't the only one staging elaborate scenes with her Barbie dolls.
The Rogue Anthologies are pretty great and there are quite a few of them.
Jen had to do a major "retcon" on this hero in the Tamsen Parker book in order to read it. It's fine, really.
Special thanks to our special guest Sierra Simone! You can find her on Instagram or Facebook. Read her New Camelot series, the first is American Queen! She also joined us on our MacRieve episode, and we talked about Priest, a book that blooded Sarah.
You can buy a Pegging the Patriarchy button and other Romancelandia buttons at stickers at Jen's shop run by her best friend Kelly, and Sarah's t-shirts and swag from Jordandene.
Next week, we'll be talking about Born in Ice by Nora Roberts! We mean it!
Much thanks to all the members of the Pegging Cabal for their amazing, generous donation, and for asking us to do this episode: E is reading, Jennifer, Stephanie Blackhart, Amanda, Kini, Melinda, Tempest Bonds, Michelle Boule, JS Lenore, Eve Pendle, and Isabel. Give them a follow, or maybe this related account, Is There Pegging? But whatever you do, don't make everyone think that something is wrong with Colin Firth. We hope you enjoyed the episode!
Check out the transcript.
Jen Prokop 0:39
I don't even have words right now but we do have a very special guest
she's been cursed by podcast fairies though.
Sarah MacLean 0:50
It may be like it may be at some sort of flu podcast
flu podcast. Oh, there you go
Sierra Simone 0:56
just as pegging itself takes multiple tries to get Alright, so to the pagan podcast
Jen Prokop 1:05
Well, there you go. I guess y'all know what we're talking about tonight.
Sarah MacLean 1:09
Everyone Sierra Simone is with us today. Hello
Sierra Simone 1:12
everyone you know
Jen Prokop 1:14
Sarah and I are not messing around and sometimes you just need to bring in an expert so on this faded mates Welcome everyone we have a very a very special episode. It's kind of like a Lifetime movie. If you remember those when you were a kid only like way more instructive?
Because
Unknown Speaker 1:32
we got help and support I said, see nothing like those Lifetime movie.
Sarah MacLean 1:40
Like, my sister is my mom.
Jen Prokop 1:50
But okay, sure.
Sarah MacLean 1:54
Okay, so we should talk about so yes. Welcome, everybody to faded mate. I'm Sarah McClain.
Jen Prokop 2:01
I'm generally romance
are we going in
Sarah MacLean 2:07
you and then if we have to introduce our
Unknown Speaker 2:08
guest, I mean, right.
Sarah MacLean 2:11
And then we are here today with Sarah Simone who everyone remembers from our McRib episode. Sarah, have you only been here for one episode?
Jen Prokop 2:19
No.
Sierra Simone 2:21
I think it's just been one. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm present.
Jen Prokop 2:26
We have to do everyone several.
We've recorded with her four times, but she's gonna only be on twice
Sierra Simone 2:36
but you only get to hear okay, but
Sarah MacLean 2:38
here's the deal. So this is well and we also we have a third one even we have a third lined up already. We already know you're coming back. Yo, it's like, Saturday Night Live where people get t shirts. People get gifts when they hit milestones like maybe when you hit five will send you like a
amazing
Sierra Simone 2:58
amazing
Sarah MacLean 3:06
Kansas.
Sierra Simone 3:08
It really is. I mean, I'm the mayor of Minaj. County, Kansas.
I don't know, but I'm the mayor of it.
Well, thank you for having me on. I'm really excited to be here. We're so happy to have you and
Sarah MacLean 3:25
so let's give a little background on where how this started. We so Suzanne over at Levin panels, who is fabulous, and was looking around in 2019 at the world and going like what the fuck is happening is that none of us could could really stop saying that, and I was paralyzed, but, but Suzanne decided that she was gonna put her good work into mobilizing romance to into a auction to benefit nonprofit organizations on the southern border of the United States working with displaced families, children who have been displaced or taken from their parents and other people who
Jen Prokop 4:15
are really going through it
Sarah MacLean 4:17
down there. And romance really delivered in a huge way. The auction was massive, I think bigger than Suzanne could have imagined. Oh, I think it raised like 15 or 20 grand It was a lot. Yeah, you guys did awesome. So thank you to everyone who donated time money. product to that. We Jen and I were really really excited to be able to donate an episode of fate of mates, by which we meant like you pick the topic.
Like, we'd like you to talk about the bridgeton series
episode on princesses.
Jen Prokop 5:04
Women with really nice shoes.
Sarah MacLean 5:09
You Joker's a group of you got together and you raise a shit ton of money. Thank you so, so much. And you called yourself the pegging cabal. We have your name, we're going to name you at the end of this episode with pride. And you won the auction and you asked us to do an episode on pegging. And after sort of a couple of non starter ideas like what if we do a whole episode of characters named Margaret or
Sierra Simone 5:42
totally forgot we're
Jen Prokop 5:43
gonna do that. I was like, we're gonna rickroll them.
Sarah MacLean 5:49
Pirate romance.
We decided to really get serious get down to business, so to speak, and we called in the dirtiest person we know
Sierra Simone 6:00
The owner, thank you operator
Sarah MacLean 6:01
and developer of the Simone scale tm.
Simone, like pegging on the small scale is like, slightly to the north of Darcy looking at.
Jen Prokop 6:17
Like, making a cup of tea with two tea bags. That's about how sexy it is in your world. Like, we're gonna need help.
Sierra Simone 6:25
I mean, also actual teabagging is on, but like,
Jen Prokop 6:31
but yes, like, we're
Sierra Simone 6:32
talking like real, real mild stuff for pegging. So I was like, yeah, hell yes, I'm here. Yeah. What
Unknown Speaker 6:38
do you mean you need an expert? What's wrong,
Jen Prokop 6:42
guys? Important point, Sarah tweet. I think I've done more research episodes I ever had for like, my advice.
Sarah MacLean 6:52
was like, I'm getting it together.
Sierra Simone 6:55
That wasn't real good week. Like I feel like our text thread that week was probably like top 10 texts. threads of all time. Okay.
Yeah, we found that playlist, the music playlist, which we will
Sarah MacLean 7:09
course link in show notes and also the peaches song is is is going to play over the course of this episode because
Jen Prokop 7:33
Is this the woman the woman on Twitter who has the pegging? Like new jingle you guys we found some amazing things we're gonna
Sarah MacLean 7:42
get to her she's amazing cuz she's given us permission to play the whole thing. But no, there's there's a peachy song that is like, frankly like meaning.
It also includes meatloaf I would do anything for love.
Jen Prokop 8:02
But I won't do that.
Sarah MacLean 8:15
There is like a three part dissertation on on the internet about Ariana Grande a having
Sierra Simone 8:23
to pegging Dangerous Woman don't know how
Unknown Speaker 8:29
to spend the money.
Unknown Speaker 8:33
completely focused.
Sierra Simone 8:36
It is the classic, dangerous woman.
Jen Prokop 8:41
I think my favorite song on that playlist though, is
Sarah MacLean 8:53
that Eric pops in and production. There's gonna be a lot of great music in this episode. We'll put it all in show notes.
Jen Prokop 9:00
I think also a lot of show notes are going to be like Jen was unable to Google that good luck.
Sarah MacLean 9:07
Jen does show notes at work.
Jen Prokop 9:10
We suggest the search terms x y&z been able to execute that search and keep my job.
See the gray zone is now radioactive.
Sierra Simone 9:27
Well the great thing about Sarah Nice job is that like, if we didn't do this research on our computers, really we'd be letting our job down. So solemn duty Yeah, to investigate every corner of pegging.
Yeah, that's what she said.
Sarah MacLean 9:45
There's no corners in pegging.
Sierra Simone 9:49
I've learned that. That's rule number
one. Corner.
Jen Prokop 9:56
No corners. It's real soft. Round. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 10:05
All right.
Jen Prokop 10:06
Okay, so real serious now, Sarah, I think we'd like Sierra to maybe define pegging for us for
Sarah MacLean 10:13
those of you who don't know, welcome to fate of me. Welcome to this episode.
Okay, good welcome. If this is your first faded mates episode, welcome to the deep end of the pool.
If you combine a series someones newsletter, Twitter account, Facebook, or
Unknown Speaker 10:45
Welcome
Jen Prokop 10:48
Welcome to the kiddie pool.
Unknown Speaker 10:52
perspective, time is a flat circle
Unknown Speaker 10:59
All right.
Jen Prokop 11:00
Sierra, tell us about what pegging is, that's your job. That's why we brought you do all the heavy lifting.
Sierra Simone 11:07
So, um, so this is something that when we were kind of formulating how we were going to talk about pegging in the episode, you know, we did do a little bit of discussion. So sort of the traditional definition of pegging has been penetrative sex, where the penetrating object is actually a toy like a strap on, and the toy is usually worn. And the receptive partner is a man and the active partner, the penetrating partner is a woman and that is, I would say the majority of the pegging you come across in romance, which is a woman wearing a strap on penetrating a man easily. But while we were talking, I think, Jen Was it you who talked to Ilia winters a little bit, I bow Yeah, kind of making sure that there is some inclusivity The definition and that, you know, acknowledging that there can be some biological essentialism and the way that we sort of talk about what pegging is and isn't, and making sure that you know, it's kind of for everyone.
Jen Prokop 12:14
I just want to say like, huge shout out to Elio, who like, was really gracious about taking our questions because we want it I mean, obviously, we're having a lot of fun with this episode, but we don't want to be offensive either. And, you know, it's like kind of this always this question now about gender essential ism. You know, obviously, there are women who do have penises, right? If she's using her own anatomy, is it? Is it pegging? Or is it just like fucking and really, one of the things that Ellie and I ended up talking about was the idea that like people, if, if, if people kind of self identify that the activity they're doing is pegging like than it is, and it's not really like are you know, people get to decide how to like, a sheet put it like deviate from sis normativity in whatever way they Want to. So although I think in the episode work in a really kind of stick to that standard definition, we do want to just sort of, like throw out there that like that. That's not the only way that like pegging works. It's sort of maybe a most common one at this point. But, you know, we fully anticipate that, like, these things are going to just like everything. You know, there's not like really, highly defined borders around it. Like this is an activity that like all people can enjoy in whatever way they want to about that. Yeah,
Sierra Simone 13:28
yes. I love that. And I think that I think that pegging and I hope this is the case that in romance pegging is going to start to expand as it's sort of drifted into the popular consciousness, the way we see it represented and romance will start to expand and kind of breathe into the corners of the room. You know, I kind of think of that, like, what's that science law about how gas will always fill the volume of the container and nice and I feel like I do. like this and romance and inclusivity they do do that. Like once people start bringing awareness of it into the conversation, then you do start to see these stories and narratives pop up that really expand and play with, like, what are the limits of what this can do. And I hope that's the case for pegging. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 14:18
I think this is really an interesting question, because I think, I think that when we talk about pegging, we're talking about really flipping the script on what sex has traditionally like, is traditionally in like old school, you know, sis hat. romances were like, the penetrative experience is the masculine experience. And I think that that that the idea of normalization of pegging and this these kind of questions about like, how do we rewrite the script on sex so that there is more parity and experiences kind of more We're balanced across or maybe not even balanced, but it's about pleasure. It's about your own desire and your consent within a relationship. And to Missy to write the idea that you're sharing something that maybe is like a stretch for you or like a writer or something you're kind of interested or curious about together and that is also a way that people's relationships develop. And yes is a gift from erotica and from erotic romance. I mean, this has I think, part of the reason why pegging has become more a part of romance and truthfully, when we got this sort of call for this being the fate of mates episode that people wanted, we part of the reason why we felt like we needed an expert to come in and talk was because we wanted somebody who was really deeply connected to erotic romance, who writes erotic romance who understands
the world
of writing for erotic romance readers and who, unlike and somebody who is in in that world right now because it isn't it's a new This is a whole new world opening up from erotic romance I think so much about that really the conversation that we've had with adrionna we had with audrianna Herrera when she was here about like, romance is constantly now it feels like romance of 2019 2020 is pushing the walls down and sort of again like gas right expanding? Yes, you further space.
Sierra Simone 16:34
Well, and I think that that's such an astute observation that because it to me, and I'm not nearly the romance historian that you guys are but when I encountered a lot of sort of older pegging, like I would say around like 2004 to 2007 ish in like Sam handbooks and a Laura's cave books.
Jen Prokop 16:52
Um, it definitely happened
Sierra Simone 16:55
within a very specific BDSM sphere. There was a Definitely like a very certain paradigm that could allow for a man to be penetrated by a woman. And now I think that's completely not the case. And one of the reasons why is that I think it's such a valuable tool or method to explore what power and gender mean inside of a relationship, that it actually connects to a lot of conversations that we're having in 2019. And, you know, in the last few years, and so this idea that like it can move out from just being purely like a symbol of, I mean, almost dominance, like femme Dom culture, to being something that even like limitedly kinky people or not kinky people at all can experience and it can be used on the page as a as a seen as a chessboard for navigating some other bigger, deeper theme.
Jen Prokop 17:56
One of the things I think might be really interesting before we'd like to Talk about specific, like examples is one of the things I like. And I know Sarah, you and I've been like noodling around when we like sort of tried this. The first time is, when people talk about erotic romance, they often talk about, like how sex has to be a really integral part of the plot. Hmm. And one of the things and I and I think that's true, right, like they're the relationship gets, like sort of shown through like, the sexual evolution of their emotional relationship is like really shown through the evolution of their sexual relationship. Right, right. I think one of the other things that I'm I'm really moving towards is the idea that I'm really good. erotic romance, though is also about character development. Yeah. And so you get people really exploring who they are, as they explore, like, their sexual identity, whether and that happens, like with a partner or partners, right, yeah. And I think that that's something that It's really funny because for like a long time, I've kind of really struggled with that first definition of erotic romance like it felt right, but somehow not entirely right. And when I think about it instead is someone really saying, like, I want to explore something new with you. I am learning something new about myself through what we're doing together. I find that to be a really like, electrifying and exciting way of thinking about erotic romance. And I think it's also when I think about the best erotic romance, it's the ones that do that. And I think that that's why like pegging could then be like a really interesting kind of model for this because often it is like, it's not where a book starts, right. It's something that's going to happen later. And, and I think so I just think that's like a really interesting way of thinking about it that like, I don't know, it really makes sense to me. It's like something I feel like I really enjoy and I think Maybe I'll look it up Jennifer Porter on Twitter was maybe one of the people who first like got me thinking in this way and I will definitely try and dig up that thread because I, I really, it was like one of those things where I read it and I was like that I love that idea a lot.
Sarah MacLean 20:15
Well, and I think that that's such an important piece of the puzzle for erotic romance. Like I my biggest one of my biggest frustrations with the way we talk about romance novels in the world is that for so long, I mean, when I started writing Romance A decade ago, which feels like an eternity ago, and like I started reading romance before ebooks existed, like that's, that's kind of the frame of reference that we're talking about here. Right. So like, the most erotic romance at the time that was readily available that you could go to your local library and pick up was someone like Laura Lee right, who was writing a very specific kind of again, like sis heteronormative erotic romance that was not including these kind of these kind of kinks that now no longer feel as kinky, right? But so an interestingly and her and her heroes were completely impenetrable. That's what she said in both
Sierra Simone 21:25
episode we one done
Sarah MacLean 21:30
right, I'm never gonna be able to call a hero.
Jen Prokop 21:36
They all need to just understand that they're all penetrable. It's a better world that way.
Sarah MacLean 21:43
But my point being that
for a long time written my, when I started, there was this sort of sense that we didn't talk about the sex parts of the book like we as writers, as an industry. Kind of glossed over that for I think lots of reasons. But certainly the one of the damage, one of the most damaging parts of that silence about the sex parts was that we never really nailed down a solid definition of what it means to be erotic romance like Yeah, and I think we talked about this a little bit during the mcgroove episode where like, I there's still a question I still see people right now there's the Rita not the Rita entry. window is open, and people are like, well, if I had five sex scenes in my book, is that a contemporary is that erotic and it's like, well,
Jen Prokop 22:43
that's not the that shouldn't be. The crazy number is not that the number is not what's defined,
Sarah MacLean 22:50
but I think we're not look, romance is having a lot of very important conversations right now that need to be had but this is one that also needs to be had in service of This part of the genre, right? Because we should be able to talk about what the value of the erotic romance is. And I think you're right that it is about character. Evolution is through action in this particular way.
Sierra Simone 23:15
I love that idea of evolution through action. Like I think that's such an incredible, just sort of pithy tagline for it. And I want to acknowledge that, you know, we're the sphere in which we're talking about erotic romance is largely geared towards and representing Allah sexuals. And so just with that caveat, I do think that for Allah sexual people, meaning people who are just non Ace, or you know, naturally sexual beings, that sexual identity actually ties into some really super elemental parts of our identities that I think are hard to access and other ways. So like it can be profoundly vulnerable making it can be profoundly therapeutic. Or profoundly traumatizing or, you know, breaking you open to have powerful transformative sex. And so if you have an erotic romance where the It doesn't matter how many sex scenes you have, necessarily, but the sex scene itself is doing work by using sex as a as a gateway into this identity arc that the characters undergoing, I think that that is what makes a compelling erotic romance. And then I think the, a lot of that journey usually is coupled with sort of, I was raised or just sort of the overall culture created these ideas about sexuality inside of me. And so like some of that identity is usually kind of coming into your own and letting go of the harmful paradigms that society has given you. And I think with pegging in particular, that can have a lot to do with like, what is masculinity? Like? What is the matter masculine role in sex. And and I think we can acknowledge probably that there are there are some strains of homophobia right within talking about pegging and how men might feel about it.
Jen Prokop 25:15
If I could just like shout out like literally today, Rome parish dropped a little book in main bite, called a good old affection Hanukkah pegging. And it is a if you read small change, it's ginger and Christopher so these are like characters you kind of already know. But one of the things I really liked about this little and I mean, it's pretty short. I read it in a couple minutes is it starts off with Christopher talking to his friend, because he is like curious it his friend is gay and he's curious about like, Ginger has like wants to try pegging. Christopher is like I think I want to try it but he talks to his friend hearse Question is sort of like, does it hurt? Like, does it hurt to have something up your ass? Right? And the friend is kinda like Jude is like blinking, right? And, and he's like, and they and he's really interesting because he's, he'd like, go, it's I thought it was really great. Like, he's like, I need to go to a friend first who's experienced this to like, talk about, like, my questions and my fears. And you know, it's like, really funny because, like, one of the things he says is like, like, What's the situation? And I was like, You know what, I think that makes it I loved it. Like, I felt like, oh, like, that really is getting out. Like what I think a lot of people would have like, questions about the mechanics of it, and I just thought it anyway, it's like a terrific story. And it's really short and we'll link to it in show notes. But you know, that that whole idea of like him, you know, and and you can tell Jude his friend is like, you know, it doesn't make you gay and he's like, I I'm not trying to say that, like, I really am like, Is it going to hurt like, what do I do to prepare? How do I get ready?
Unknown Speaker 27:00
Right. You know,
Sarah MacLean 27:02
I think that's a really it brings up a whole separate batch of questions about romance in general and how well or not well, it prepares readers for sex. Yeah, right. I mean, I, I think, because I think a lot about the fact like, I think about anal and I think about how I had no idea like romance did not prepare me in any way to like, understand how anal works. Right, right. Oh, yeah. Right. So like, I think so i think that that kind of conversation in romance is really fresh and interesting and should happen more on the page. And, again, it's the place where erotic romance can be doing some really interesting and I think important work. Yeah, you know, the last time we this is the second time we've recorded this episode, because we had a little bit of a problem the first time and that day, I had just been to have an extra While I was sitting there, I was not discussing this episode with the X ray tech surprisingly. But the X ray tech while I was there was saying, Oh, we've had a really interesting day today because you know, your story is definitely the most boring story and somebody else would come in was younger a young man and he had a tube of mascara.
Sierra Simone 28:28
Oh no loss Oh, no,
Unknown Speaker 28:30
no, no
Unknown Speaker 28:31
No learn base everybody know that. Here's the thing, right? Like,
Sarah MacLean 28:36
that's a thing where like, okay, there's this is there's a lot going on, like his, the X ray text response was his mom was real pissed.
And
I can't imagine like I was like, well, it's probably worse for him. And truthfully, like this entire experience is going to be a terrible experience between him and his mom if they can't figure out a way to talk about it. But the reality is like who's was having how are we having these conversations? Like is it romances job to teach us? Like? There's some interesting questions here, right? Like, you know, it is not romance this job to teach us. But like, we don't want porn teaching us. So where do we learn? So I guess in this I mean, this is sort of a much bigger kind of academic and like parenting and you know, a traditional question, but
these
I'm really happy to hear about that conversation in Ron's book because
Jen Prokop 29:32
Yeah, right, exactly. Because I do think it's tricky. Like, I agree with you that this is not exactly it's not romances job to teach. But at the same time, I think it probably behooves at least most writers to know that many people are learning about sex through romance. Yeah. And like, that's like a real tricky thing. I will say I will put a link in show notes to a website that I just think is actually terrific. for teaching about sex, it's called Scarlett teen. And it is literally called, like sex ed for the real world. And it's really aimed at teenagers and like emerging adults, right, like young people, but I, I, I think anybody would benefit like, everything's really straightforward. It's pretty non judgmental. I think it does a pretty good job about addressing like, gender identity. It's not like gender essential, you know what I mean? It's not just like, this is what women are. And I so I do think that like, but I tell a lot of people about Scarlett teen and they're like, I've never heard of that before. And I don't know if I'm just lucky because I work in a school and I know the folks who teach sex ed, but there are resources out there that I think you know, if you're too embarrassed to talk to your kids about sex, like I will say, I know that it's like really hard, but I do think it's like a really important part of our job as parents sprite because
Otherwise you're in the ER
Unknown Speaker 31:03
Yeah.
Sierra Simone 31:04
Lost your $13 tube of mascara.
Jen Prokop 31:10
I mean, who knows how much of the bill is for that?
Sarah MacLean 31:14
Oh god no, but not in you know i'm i'm thrilled that there are resources like this but like also just PSA moms and dads out there listening like, you know talk to your kids about all kinds of sex. Oh yeah things that they might be getting into it's going to be horrifying but enjoy embarrassing them
Sierra Simone 31:36
I think there is a there is a corner of fiction that does sometimes get a little bit more into these things and that's fanfiction because I know I have read fanfiction that is a little bit more detail oriented because it's you know, maybe it's written by a young person who like actually googled how to peg the I know I've read some fanfiction that was really illuminating and taught me some things. And I think I actually think in 2019 there's actually a lot of permeability between fan fiction and romance right now. Sure, I think I think a lot of fan fiction readers have grown up to be romance readers because they've been trained by slash fig by you know, reading these alternate universes with their favorite characters falling in love. And so they just sort of naturally graduated into romance, but they expect the same diversity and the same sex positivity that they found in fanfiction, which is really like it's a breath of fresh air, I think.
Jen Prokop 32:40
Yeah, I think that's awesome. I guess I would just like one more thing I would like to turn to in terms of like, cuz I guess my, my, of the three of us, my child is the oldest so I've actually done some of this work. Like I mean, we all you should all you know, you'd be talking to your younger kids about all sorts of things about their rights to their body and all that kind of stuff, right? But, and I can put up like lots of like links and show notes about like, how to talk to your kids about sex and, but like one of the things to like, for me that's really worked and I tell people this is that I like very much like when I sit my son down and we're like talking about this stuff, like just him, like I say to him, I'm like, I get that you're embarrassed, and you don't have to say anything, just like listen to me. And then I like really make it clear. Like, I feel like this is part of my job as your parent like, I'm just doing my job right now. I'm not here to embarrass you. I'm not here to like horrify you I but this is stuff that's like really important to me, that you are that you know about consent that you are being careful that you are like watching out for your friends that you know these like warning signs of like when someone might be in a dangerous situation. right and i think that you know, it's it's something that I think of is like a real responsibilities. Like, you're not going to send your kid off to college without them knowing how to like, do their own laundry. So make sure they know how to like buy condoms, and, you know, like talk about sex. And the thing that I have told my son is over and over again is like, if you can't talk to your partner or like about what you want to do, if you can't say, like, this is what I want to try, this is what I want to do, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. Yeah, right like that. That to me is like, just like the baseline. Like you have to be able to talk to your partner. It's something you're doing together. And that to me, I think feels like you don't have to really get too into the weeds about that is but it's like, if you can't even talk about what you want to do, then maybe you're not ready to actually try doing it.
Sierra Simone 34:44
You know, I think that that actually ties really well into pegging because I think pegging is one of the acts that requires a huge amount of communication. Because if you are penetrating someone with a toy like you yourself are not having a whole lot of Like biofeedback. So what is happening inside their body? And so there's just there's no way to do it without actively communicating as you go along, like you communicate before, like, you know, just basic things like what's the weather today? Like? Is it good about weather? Is it bad weather? Like? It's like a tornado warning then like, we're not going in, but, but then it's like a constant process of communicating throughout and then after, as well to say, like, how did that feel? Was that okay? And there's just, I mean, I don't think I've ever read a pegging scene where there hasn't been some degree of communication, because I think that if you wrote something like that, it would actually be really uncomfortable like emotionally to read because it's such a, it's it just requires that in this it necessitates it.
Jen Prokop 35:56
So do we want to talk about some actual books?
Sarah MacLean 35:59
Well, actually, I want to talk About my book, if if I can go first. Um, so I was thinking I'm, I'm just really, I'm really drawn to what you both are saying about, you know, one being mature enough to be able to ask for what you want. And with, you know, with purpose and with an understanding of your own your own ability to want and, and behave in a certain way but also in this sort of sense that like trust that I'm really interested in the trust that is implicit in asking for in broaching the topic with your partner. Yeah. Because it feels like once you're actually like, in the sheets, like
you've, you've come over the
most impressive hurdle, which is like asking for it right, which is hard. Right? All right. This feels dirty, by the way. Like I feel like every word coming out of my mouth
Jen Prokop 37:00
We're gonna get we're giving the people, Sarah.
Unknown Speaker 37:04
I know.
Sarah MacLean 37:05
So
anyway,
I so anyway, my point is that I think this this issue of trust in conversation with your partner the ability to say, I want this thing I want this thing that's kinky or not kinky or whatever in our relationship and frankly, I mean sexual or otherwise, is a massive hurdle for a relationship, especially in the beginning. And I mean, especially when it comes to sex like, which is awkward and weird and funny and stupid and all those things all right, it's never as perfect as it's certainly not the beginning ever as perfect as it is to pick a page. And so my pick for this is aelia winters. I mean, it feels like she keeps coming back, but winters winters is tied score, which is the second book in her slices of pie series, which follows. It's basically an erotic series focused and centered around gaming company. But in this particular you don't have to
the heroine of this book is
the HR person at this gaming company. And here is a baker.
And we all know I love the baker.
And basically like she goes in to the bakery every morning, I really love the way this flips the script. There are a lot there are a lot of romances where like the businessman hero gets his coffee every day from right like everything about this book kind of turns these, like classic tropes on their head. But he goes into she goes into his bakery every day and she buys coffee every day and they sort of make eyes at each other and they were kind of into each other and then like suddenly they're you know, they're into each other and She is a it's a little BDSM she is in them in, she likes scenes, she likes to be a DOM. And and he has a submissive streak that he knows he has but hasn't like thoroughly explored. And I really like as you all know, like I really like this dynamic with the with the heroine as DOM. So this I knew going in like I picked up this book because I knew going in this was going to scratch an itch for me that you don't see very much but in this particular case, um she's also like she knows she's, there's nothing about this that feels prescribed in the way that erotic romance can often produce a DOM and a submissive where it's like everyone knows their own rules. Everyone knows like exactly how everything goes Dom's know everything is perfect in every way. That's just not how this goes and it lovely And there's this
moment about
halfway through the book and I think about the fact I think it was Eugen who said, like pegging doesn't happen on page one like it. Yeah, it's an act that comes out later.
Jen Prokop 40:12
Meanwhile, I said that and I'm an ally when I talk about mine, but it's gonna be okay. That's like exception that proves the rule. Exactly.
Unknown Speaker 40:20
So
Sarah MacLean 40:20
there's, they go into the two of them together, go into a sex, like a sex shop. And the woman behind the counter is like, very friendly. And she's like, welcome. And he turns to the hero turns to the heroine and says, What did you have in mind and I sort of, it feels it all feels very light. There's this new sex shop in our neighborhood that like where there's nothing like the windows are all like open to the street and like it feels like a revelation to go in there. It doesn't feel secret or sword in any way. And I like that about this representation on the in the book. That's sort of an aside. And she says, The heroine says, I thought,
um,
maybe a harness.
Like ellipses in the sentence like it's clear that she feels we're in his POV right so we can't see when we can't see what she's thinking. But like it's so clear that she's like, I know what I want but I feel weird saying it to you like I don't I'm not sure how this is going to go I'm not sure that you'll have me after this like I'm not sure we'll be in the same place anymore. I could be fucking up
and then he says
that sounds fun is it's like to try and then he touches her but just like with one finger like he just like runs a finger down her spine. And she says Yeah, I think so if your game and he says and then he bends down is like super sexy and is like, you want to peg me, Miss Parker and like it's This moment where you're like they're having this like hot, consensual moment, and it's filled with like her. And it begins with her uncertainty with like, yeah, her not being like the perfect DOM and not being able to read like, being in a place that's very authentic and real. It felt like to me. Yeah, that's awesome. Anyway, the rest of the pegging scene is great. All this is to say, like, the rest of the book is fabulous. The pegging scene is great. It's super hot. ilias really, incredibly skilled at this. And, you know, you've heard us talk about early on the podcast before, so I don't have to oversell but I wanted to really, you all said that in it. I just I found that moments. So real. So great. Great.
Jen Prokop 42:48
Yeah. Just a quick shout out. Her latest book three for all also has a pegging scene.
Sierra Simone 42:55
Oh,
Sarah MacLean 42:56
I also think I'm not gonna a good time to break are a person on Twitter who
peg someone in a different way through song?
Jen Prokop 43:15
It's honestly I feel like the most brilliant thing I've ever heard at
least at times when you are the one who like reached out, and we're like hello
Sarah MacLean 43:29
King delighted by it. Her name is Aida. And she is awesome. She's hilariously funny her Twitter handle is shut up Aida. And actually just recently she announced that she has a new job she's joined the writers room at Big Mouth the the the animated show on Netflix that is about teenagers going through puberty, which I think is like the most I'm wild about this show. It's awkward and weird and it's exactly the right representation of what puberty feels. Like, so congratulations to Ada for this but
more importantly, she is the creator
of and we will post this tweet and we will put the music in right now.
Unknown Speaker 44:19
Real quick. No, it's not gay bro. I'm just having fun, bro. I just wanna stick. But bro, I'm being truthful and make yourself visible and let me just imagine a
Unknown Speaker 44:29
bag. I got a strap.
Unknown Speaker 44:30
I gotta press pay for your ass. Hey, I've got a question to ask.
Unknown Speaker 44:35
Do you get your booty in
Unknown Speaker 44:36
the air? Maybe we could do each other's hands stop being homophobic and benya as over it's not like your homies are here. And to be clear, I know you would love it.
Unknown Speaker 44:49
You got a big
Sarah MacLean 45:03
The tweet reads unnormalized pegging at all costs
fucking fabulous rap.
And with that she had that she wrote in like a heartbeat. And my favorite line of it is, uh, I got a strap. I got a fresh peg for your ass. I got a question to ask. Do you see with your booty in the air? Maybe when we're finished, we can do each other's hair.
Jen Prokop 45:36
Anyway, let's feel blessed everybody. It's great.
Sarah MacLean 45:38
You guys my favorite song. My favorite song.
Jen Prokop 45:42
It's amazing. It really is.
Sarah MacLean 45:44
What's important here is that we all get to the point where we've asked, and that's right. enthusiastic verbal vocal consent.
Jen Prokop 45:52
There you go.
Why don't you go next, Sarah?
Sierra Simone 45:57
Yes. Okay. I My book this time is learned my lesson by Katie Roberts. And this is part of her wicked villains series. Which, if you're not on Instagram obsessively following her staging her sex scenes with Barbie dolls, then you should be. But this series follows different Disney villains and sort of kind of alternate universe. They're all in the same city, kind of squaring off against each other. And learn my lesson is about Hades, Hercules and Meg. And it kind of starts out with so Hades owns a kink club. And in in owning this kink club, he's kind of got control over the entire city. His King club is the only neutral ground in this city. And he has information on everyone and Megan's really his His right hand person like she's his submissive, but she's also a switch in the club. And she manages the day to day running of the club like she is as much the mistress of it as he is the master. But at the beginning of the book, they kind of start out in this sort of marriage and trouble place. So they've been together for you know, long time, like 10 years. And something shifted in Hades, right? And like Megan's really feeling like something's changed between them. And so the book opens there at a restaurant and it's supposed to be kind of like a nice dinner date, but it's not going that well. And then this waiter walks in, and he's just like six foot five of like, golden puppy muscle boy. And Hades is like, I want you to seduce him. And you find out later that like Hades has sort of like revenge reasons for wanting this thing to happen. But what happens between Meg and Hercules ends up being Super genuine. And then Hades and Hercules end up having this really genuine connection. And Hayes is definitely like the slither in hero who's anti hero who's kind of bent on revenge who's like, I love zero things. And then by the end of the book, he's like, Damn, and I love two things I'm
Unknown Speaker 48:16
supposed to.
Jen Prokop 48:23
Perfect. So great.
Sierra Simone 48:26
There's a really beautiful pegging scene that were made pigs Hercules while he is, is getting oral sex to Hades.
And what I love
about it is it's everything that I want out of the pegging scene, right, like there's sort of this flip of gender and who's the passive partner and all this stuff. But I also really love I don't want to say how casual It is like, because there is consent involved and there is like, planning and emotional preparation, but it's just a given the Hercules' would be open to this kind of thing. And so it really, it almost makes the default as it should be, which is that there's no stigma attached. You know, in this world that Katie is created, there is no stigma to what we want and what we need to do for ourselves in bed. And so it happens and it's this really like, coalescing scene between the three of them, like it's really the scene where you begin to see like what they could be as a threesome. And not just as an antihero, a puppet and his, you know, like, jaded submissive. And I love the whole book, and I love all the books in the series and she has more books in the series coming out. I think the next one is going to be hook and Tinkerbell. So if you're into that kind of thing, I think that's coming in late, like late winter, like early 2020.
Unknown Speaker 49:56
There you go. Keeping
Unknown Speaker 49:59
Yeah. Um,
Jen Prokop 50:00
that's really interesting because I think that it sounds like we have all found like really different like pegging examples I am going to talk about, and I'm going to preface this by saying it was written right after the election in 2016. And it has a plot that I think, like the most ridiculous part of the plot. The hardest thing to believe is not the pegging on the first date. That is easy to believe it's that this is a love story between a democrat and a Republican. Which I know and I hate myself for recommending it but I feel like I love it so much but I feel like four years ago even it kind of felt like this was a plot that could happen. He really he at the end the republican completely gives it up he like he
quits the party he understand is wrong, but Still, like I don't even know he
Sarah MacLean 51:02
legit pegs the patriarchy is what you're saying.
Jen Prokop 51:07
Yeah, it's
called life, liberty and worship by Tamsin Parker. And it was in the first rogue anthology. So it's called broke desire. And I'm going to guess that if Tamsin was writing this right now, she would write it about like, a Democrat and then like, I thought about voting for Bernie for five minutes. But didn't actually do it like, right anyway.
I voted for George, local. You know, like, when I was eight, in my local school board election, there was only one republican running. So I had
three or four years like a lot of changes what I'm trying to tell you anyway, so here's it's a great, it's a great book if we can just like read Gone away. That one part of it. So, Paige is goes every like, you know, however often to like a spinning class and the guy in front of her, she like thinks he's really cute but she notices that he wears these sort of like political t shirts and she just and then he like gets all sweaty and takes them off and she's like, Oh, I hate this guy. And but he of course it turns out is just like one of those like, sad boys who doesn't want to talk to anybody. And so he finally like sort of, you know, get up the gumption to like ask her out. But unfortunately for him he does it after she sort of overhears like another guy like being real Brody and saying something stupid and and she is just like, fine. I'll go out with you like, come to my come to like this address at 10 o'clock. And in the meantime, she actually is sort of figured out That he writes policy papers for you know, like some sort of competing, whatever wonky thing and she like does respect the way he thinks like even though she doesn't quite agree with his politics because at one time and the school board election he voted Republican. She She liked it so he like shows up and she's basically like, he's like, What's your name? And she's like, you can find out after I have my way with you and basically like, brandishes this her harness, I mean, like, and he it's really amazing. She basically thinks she's gonna like, scare him away. And it's like, the greatest line in this book is he's like,
I've never done this book.
She's, you know, she's like, and she's like, what, fuck the Democrat.
But the thing is, is that she is she takes the response. ability of like penetrating him, like of pegging him really seriously, right. So even though she's, like, furious at him, and really does almost view this as like an act of revenge in some ways for what she thinks he stands for, she is still so careful with him. And she is and he and she's really surprised that he goes for it. She's like, wait, I thought you'd essentially like run, you know, run away. And they, she, like fucks up and basically kicks him out the door. You know, it ends up being like a really like for his show. You know, sometimes I'm just really amazed at what a great author can do with a short amount of time, right. And so, in this case, one of the things I think we really get is, you know, we talked about like, trust a lot right so far and like the other books that you guys have talked about, but pegging is also about power. And I think that's something that page really knows but it Not a power that she takes lightly and she doesn't like cross her like emotional feelings of anger disappointed with him and his kind of what she thinks he stands for, with like the, the very careful like power kind of and responsibility she she has with him in the bedroom. So I think it's like a really interesting one because because there isn't that emotional, or like trust there. It really is like sort of more of a of an act where she's like, I, this is what I want to do. And he's like, yeah, I kind of want you to do it too. But I think it's really hot. I think it's real sexy. And I think it's ultimately she is able after the physical act of begging him to sort of emotionally when they sort of eventually do kind of come clean. Like really say to him like I could never be with someone who believes the things that you believe and he has really has to face like, okay, the republican party I grew up in when I voted in the school board election. No like, right?
It's not
like what I stand for either, right? I mean, he's pro choice and he and he really has to sort of face like, Oh, I this this has changed and and you're right. And so he basically agrees to do the right thing and come over to the side of rightness and goodness and pegging.
Sierra Simone 56:30
We have pegging nice, you know, I really love but that's
I really love that this is your choice because I feel like it more maybe more than Sarah and I as pics represents, like where pegging can go in romance, like outside of like latex and safe words and you know, like, really intentional power structures that are built ahead of time. Like I think that it can represent like that picking can end up being kind of like how anal play is now where it used to be really restricted where you would find anything about the butt. And now, I mean, I sometimes I'm even kind of surprised when it doesn't come up in some contemporary romances as at least like a thing that someone's thinking about. Right? And so I hope that I mean, I really hope that like this is kind of a good bellwether of like, where we can go with it. We can use it as a metaphor as shorthand, but we can also use it as like, spontaneous you know, first aid sex. Yeah.
Love that. I'd be a hell of a first date.
Unknown Speaker 57:39
very memorable.
Sarah MacLean 57:46
That would be a fun thing to try on Tinder. Like just
Unknown Speaker 57:49
we like
Sarah MacLean 57:51
surely swipe right if I will, if I can pay you on the first day.
Jen Prokop 57:57
Yeah, I mean, it would sell you lucked out. Hello. Man, you would lose a lot of Yeah, stinkers.
Sierra Simone 58:04
A lot of stinkers. I mean
Jen Prokop 58:09
you said stinkers.
Sierra Simone 58:13
We need to do you know how we did like the last limb count for ID it's like, we need to have the unintentional pun. count for Sarah.
Unknown Speaker 58:31
Sarah,
Sierra Simone 58:33
yeah, don't don't make a sale.
Jen Prokop 58:38
As we like wrap up, I would like to tell you one of the greatest Twitter accounts ever to be created is at is there pegging? And if a book has pegging in it, they will retweet it.
Sarah MacLean 58:52
So girls,
Sierra Simone 58:52
yeah.
Jen Prokop 58:56
I don't know.
But based on the followers, I know it seems highly likely that someone we know
Sarah MacLean 59:07
guys
doing the Lord's work out here.
Jen Prokop 59:12
That's right now I have got to say it was my job to like list the names of the Peggy and Caldwell and I forgot to get it. I you know, it's like notes I had when we first recorded a month ago. So I think we'll have to put it in show notes, but I do know that like, the person I communicated with, is he is reading and she is famous actually in the past month for freaking out everyone on the fucking internet by getting Colin Firth trending. Remember that? She posted? Like, like, you know, which what's your age? And which, which Darcy Do you like, and all of a sudden, like 50,000 people or something answered her tweet, and everybody else was like, why is Colin Firth trending because they thought he was dead. And I was like, you need to like use your powers for good and not evil. So,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:07
here we are. And here Here we are, here we are.
Jen Prokop 1:00:15
Any last thoughts on
pegging? Before we wrap up this very special episode?
Sarah MacLean 1:00:20
You know what, I'm just going to say that I, I'm always so fucking delighted when Sierra joins us, even though it feels it feels only been once before. It feels like it's been a lot, but it's just been once before. So if you have not, if you skip the first season, or you skip reading ID, I highly, highly recommend you listening to the mcgroove episode of this podcast is not just I mean, you'll learn the plot of margrave which is banana.
But also, there's a lot of
really thoughtful conversation about erotic romance. And there were Sierra I think both of our minds a little bit.
Jen Prokop 1:01:02
Oh my god. Yes. Well, and before Sierra goes to wait, I know I'm not sure if you're going to say this, but I'm pretty sure that she has written a book with pegging. And I was hoping he would end up by
like, talking about your book or giving you a chance to talk about your book too. I mean, hell I'm
Sierra Simone 1:01:20
I'm just such a I'm like such a retiring like shrinking violet.
Jen Prokop 1:01:26
Special guest who has written about this in her books, and somehow she is not doing the right thing by telling us about it. So that's where we're going to like, make sure we go before Well,
Sierra Simone 1:01:35
I didn't want to horn in or maybe I do, maybe morning.
Jen Prokop 1:01:42
I was like, Oh, yeah, he does spam.
Sierra Simone 1:01:51
Yes. So if you are interested in reading any of my books, or reading about pegging or reading and pegging Sienna I have novella called the moon, and it is a very kind of broody, sexy contemporary retelling of Merlin and then way and I know Jen is probably making a face right now. So, I love Even I promise even of Merlin. I love you too. Even if Merlin's not your thing, that's totally okay. Um, but it is. It's a really sort of, I really kind of wanted to explore sort of like, what a spiritual kind of feeling that pegging could generate. So, I use the the pegging scene between the two of them as sort of this final act of like, complete elemental joining, I guess between them. And I think that it's a lot of fun. But if, like, you know, magic and pegging aren't your thing I totally understand. But yes, that is called the
Sarah MacLean 1:02:59
moon. And it's a In the world of the new Camelot series
Sierra Simone 1:03:02
Yes, so I wrote a series called New Camelot. It's a trilogy and it is a contemporary retelling of Are there going to be are and Lancelot. But everyone's in love with each other, and they all have lots of like very angsty sighs amazing. And the moon takes place after the trilogy, but you don't need to read the trilogy. To understand what happens in the moon. It can it can stand on its own.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:27
Got it. And then I just want to say and you know, you can plug your ears if you want here. But if you are new to the podcast this week, and you are a car fan, we did a deep dive read of priest, we will link to that in show notes as well. Don't miss it. We love it. It is one of the transformational texts of the genre. According to me, Oh, stop.
Sierra Simone 1:03:53
So I'm plugging my ears. Now. I'm plugging, I'm plugging.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:58
There's another one.
Jen Prokop 1:04:00
Got it, man.
They got us we got to squeeze them all in before they got
Sarah MacLean 1:04:09
as much as possible.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:12
So there it is. All right. Yeah, picking that was great. That's
Unknown Speaker 1:04:17
what she said,
Sarah MacLean 1:04:19
Where can people find you online after they've decided they love
Sierra Simone 1:04:23
you?
Jen Prokop 1:04:25
And they want to read everything you've ever written?
Sierra Simone 1:04:27
Yes, you can find me on Instagram as the car Simone or on
facebook.com slash the car Simone. And then also I have a Facebook group,
which is pretty awesome. And there's a lot of people who like kind of the dirty books in there. So if that describes us, and that might be a group of people that you would like to talk about 30 books with. And I have a Twitter but I don't go on to twitter.com so don't tweet me because I
Unknown Speaker 1:04:58
guess it's just good.
Sarah MacLean 1:05:01
Yeah, it's just good. Thank you. As always we are already as I mentioned earlier in the podcast we already have a plan for Sears third Oh yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:13
Third time's a charm. Oh god.
Sarah MacLean 1:05:19
Jen what else we have
Unknown Speaker 1:05:20
to say? Please remember to
Sarah MacLean 1:05:22
like and subscribe if you're new to the podcast and you really enjoyed this this is what it's like every week. I mean not always with Sarah but with
you can subscribe and like and leave a review if you feel so inclined.
We you get buttons and other fun things
Jen Prokop 1:05:42
and there is a pegging the patriarchy button actually. And it comes it's like round and then there's like a little like side button. That's just a carrot.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:50
Yes. Yes. There's
Sierra Simone 1:05:52
like a little tiny button that goes with it. This a little carrot and sort of like the
Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
secret
Jen Prokop 1:06:00
Yeah, we could all wear it at like kiss
Sarah MacLean 1:06:02
cons in rW ways and really show and we would know.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:07
Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 1:06:09
So you can do that through Jen's website links and show notes. You can buy
some gear, romance gear t shirts, and other things from my partnership with Jordan Denae links and show notes more to come in the new year in February. So coming soon, a much bigger collection. Our producer is Eric Mortensen.
Jen Prokop 1:06:30
Don't forget to vote the right way and all of your upcoming elections whether they be for the local school board or for you know, the future of American democracy. Share
Unknown Speaker 1:06:41
that to
Jen Prokop 1:06:48
2020 all we gotta do is
Unknown Speaker 1:06:49
vote every election year guys we're
Sarah MacLean 1:06:51
in. Oh my god.
This year's gonna be 40,000 years long.
Jen Prokop 1:07:01
All right, everybody have a good one
Sarah MacLean 1:07:02
you all so much?
Sierra Simone 1:07:12
Real quick
Unknown Speaker 1:07:21
let me maybe
Unknown Speaker 1:07:33
stop being homophobic and benya
Unknown Speaker 1:07:38
No, you wouldn't love it.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:46
Let me show me
Elizabeth (Voicemail) 1:08:14
Hi, this is Elizabeth, aka is reading can remember the pegging crew. I wish I was sure which one was my first romance. It was so long ago. I think it was either seadrill by Penelope nary Dark of the Moon by Karen robarge. But beloved rogue by Penelope Williamson.
What I am sure is that it was hella problematic and would not hold up to now.
So, the more as to why we asked for this to be this episode to be tagging, I've talked a lot with the members of the peddling crew about why we're so interested in things enrollment. And I think is one of the goals of writing or and or reading romance is to dismantle the patriarchy, there is no clearer metaphor for that then tagging, as per the button taking the patriarchy. And this is sort of a way of undoing all that problematic. text that we read when we were younger, especially those of us who Kingdom romance in the 80s and 90s. Like Ilana, and Broad City says, things have been terrible for women up to and including today. And 2019 has definitely been for me the year of misogyny fatigue along with a lot of other fatigue. romance provides a safe space for fantasy and wish fulfillment. And I think that heading is something that a lot of women can relate to right now in
in not never avenge sense but in a way of taking back power.
I hope that makes sense. And that will and thank you for recording this episode for us and with you guys for doing this. Thank you