S02.12: Lord of Scoundrels: Reel or be Reeled
It may be Thanksgiving week in the US, but that didn’t stop us from recording a monster episode about one of our (and all of Romance’s) favorite books of all time! It’s Lord of Scoundrels week! We’re talking gloves and fans and prologues and why Jessica is one of the best heroines of all time! All that, and Sarah is on a rant about Byron…so don’t miss it!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review!
In two weeks, we’re moving across the pond to Beverly Jenkins’s Indigo, with one of Sarah’s favorite heroines ever—Hester Wyatt, Underground Railroad conductor! Read Indigo at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
Show Notes
Lord of Scoundrels has its own wikipedia page, which in case you're curious, is kind of unusual.
Just look at this gorgeous Lord of Scoundrels embroidery.
If you haven't listened to our episode on Dreaming of You, what are you waiting for?
Maybe you want to find out what you first ordered in your Amazon account.
Jessica Trent is not a Mary Sue.
Erin from Heaving Bosoms is famous for not liking epilogues, but it's a pretty good reason why. But prologues are fine.
You've been lawyered is from How I Met Your Mother.
Sarah wrote the prologue to a new edition of The Transformation of Philip Jettan.
Love's Sweet Arrow is a romance-only bookstore in the Chicago suburbs. It's awesome.
Gentle Rogue started too late.
More about Russian religous icons, but maybe you want to buy some.
The gloves scene in the Age of Innocence movie. All that repressed longing from Daniel Day Lewis! In the book, it's this chapter where Newland Archer "bent over, unbuttoned her tight brown glove, and kissed her palm as if he had kissed a relic."
If you want to know about demon seals and the Wroth brothers, then listen to season one of Fated Mates.
What does it even mean to dance a waltz in the Continental style? Probably not this Continental-style.
The Beverly Jenkins book where the heroine shoots the hero is Tempest.
Reading the banns and a list of people who were married at Saint George Hanover Square.
You'll be shocked to know that Jen has some theories about internal vs. external conflict.
When they're at the wrestling match, Dain says his friend could have "stayed comfortably at home and pumped his wife."
She Walks in Beauty Like the Night is a glorious poem, but that doesn't make Byron any less of a scumbag. That Ada Lovelace was Byron's daughter is kind of wild, but we're glad she's known for being her own person. Despite Sarah trying to create an authorship question for Byron, that's not really a thing. There's no such person as the Duke of Summerville. Jen just made that up.
If you're interested in The Romantics, you can find Jen's old college syllabus here. Lots of Wordsworth, but no Bryon, which is just fine. But we still love the way Loretta Chase used Don Juan in the text of Lord of Scoundrels.
Friend of the pod Adriana Herrera has been reading Lord of Scoundrels for the first time and her tweets about it are honestly the most amazing thing.
Maybe you want to buy some romancelandia buttons or some of Sarah's t-shirts.
Coming up next on December 11, 2019, Indigo by Beverly Jenkins
S02.11: Romance Recommendations: Stump Jen and Sarah
It’s the first half of our recommendation podcast! We asked you to ask us for recommendations, and thought it would be fun to recommend on the fly—absolutely no preparation! Instead, we met up at Sarah’s apartment and read your questions sight-unseen (thanks to @bestfriendkelly for collecting them!). What ensued is a killer list of romances that you should all read! Do not miss the show notes this week, y’all. Really.
Stay tuned for the second half of the episode in December! Next week, just in time for your tryptophan induced coma, we’re talking Loretta Chase’s Lord of Scoundrels, which was on both Jen & Sarah’s list, and is on the lions’ share of Best Romance Novels Ever lists. We’ll get into why. Read Lord of Scoundrels at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
Show Notes
Question 1: Ennis from New York asked, "is like Lothaire by Kresley Cole or Cold Cole Heart by K Webster, where the hero is someone who would be a villain in any other book. A megalomaniac, horribly damaged, murderous, whatever- and a heroine who takes NONE of his shit and brings him to his knees."
Our Recommendations: The name of this trope is "morality chain" which might help you on your search for books like this. Sarah's Summer 2020 release Daring and the Duke is perfect for this question, but since it's not out yet, try The Masterpiece Duet by Skye Warren. The first is The King.
Question 2: Lesley from Washington DC asked for books "with Jewish heroes and heroines, does not have to be holiday themed."
Our recommendations: : Jen suggests Knit One, Girl Two and Cinnamon Blade by Shira Glassman. In fact, Jen was a special guest on the Heaving Bosoms podcast taking about Cinnamon Blade. Sarah recommends Craving Flight by Tamsen Parker and Dalliances and Devotion by Felicia Grossman. Stacey Agdern also writes about Jewish representation in romance and has written some novellas in the Rogue Anthologies. We also mentioned a great point that inspired a great thread by Felicia Grossman about Jewish characters in literature.
Question 3: Daniela from Winnipeg had this AMA question: If there was a battle royale between all the IAD heroes, who would win? Does the answer change if they can't use weapons?
Our Answer: The Wroth brothers would band togehter, Declan Chase has a real shot, and Lothaire wouldn't care. No matter who wins, Thronos goes down first. Jen mentioned someone who wrote about what would happen if all the US Presidents were in a knife fight. Enjoy.
FWIW, Daniela also asked a question we skipped because we couldn't think of anything: A historical that has a silver fox duke and a spitfire heroine who exhausts the hell out of him. IDEAS? Let us know on twitter.
Question 4: Kristen from DC! asked, "LGBTQ romance easily available in PRINT for my book club???? We do it through a local indie bookshop, and are having a hard time finding things other than Cat Sebastian/Olivia Waite from Avon."
Our Recommendations: Adriana Herrera's American Dreamer series! Red, White, and Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston. We think Vanessa North and KJ Charles might be print on demand, which many indie bookstores won't carry. Dreamspinner is a mess right now, but many great authors are there, including LaQuette's latest, Under His Protection, which Jen bought a copy of at Love's Sweet Arrow. Carina titles might be more easily available, so try Syncopation and the rest of the Twisted Wishes series by Anna Zabo. Jen mentioned Being Hospitable by Meka James, but it's just in E. But you should still read it for fun.
Question 5: Courtney from the Bodice Tipplers Podcast wants to know what books made us fall in love with the genre.
Our answer: Well, just listen to all of season 2 of Fated Mates! But Sarah mentioned Nobody's Baby but Mine by Susan Elizabeth Phillips. Jen mentioned a new book that has made her feel that way is The Bride Test by Helen Hoang. Julie Garwood and Jude Deveraux were old-school authors we both loved back in the day.
Question 6: Ali in NYC had an AMA and a question: How is Eric Mortensen so good at podcast editing?
Our answer: Well, he just is and you should contact him if you need podcast editing help.
Ali also wanted recommendations about historicals with witches/magic. Our recommendations: So many of these are old school, because this is not a very popular trope right now, so please proceed with caution. Sarah recommended Bewitching by Jill Barnett and Jen recommended a pair of books by Teresa Medeiros, Breath of Magic and Touch of Enchantment. In fact, Jen reviewed Touch of Enchantment for The Book Queen. Post-recording, we thought of Sex and the Psychic Witch by Annette Blair, which is the first of a series where three sisters use their "magic powers for good and their good looks for seduction."
Question 7: Hannah from Texas asked for a romance that "has a Lucy Liu in "Set It Up" type heroine getting her actual HEA. I need ball-busting energy falling in love with a guy/gal/whoever that deserves her."
Our Recommendations: Sarah recommended The Takeover Effect by Nisha Sharma which has a corporate espionage plot. Jen was maybe thinking of Set it Off and recommeded Elle Kennedy's Out of Uniform series. Jen mentioned Getting Hotter by Elle Kennedy, but upon further reflection, also thinks The Heat is On (in an anthology called Hot & Heavy) might work. But since Hannah was actually talking about Set it Up, which is about assistants and bosses, maybe try The Assistant by Ramona Gray or check out this extensive goodreads list of boss/employee romance novels.
Question 8: Jenica from New York asked for a book that has "Childhood friends to enemies to lovers, preferably contemporary."
Our recommendations: : We don't say it here, but one strategy Sarah and Jen use all the time with more popular tropes is searching for a Goodreads list. If you can find a book with a title or two you like on it, you might like others! Jen recommended His Until Midnight by Reese Ryan, and also noted that Sarah's book A Rogue by Any Other Name has this trope. Sarah recommended Punk 57 by Penelope Douglas. And a trailing suggestion was trying Christina Lauren, who has written many great enemies to lovers books and maybe one also has childhood friends. We didn't mention it on the podcast, but if you like YA, Jen loved Not if I Save You First by Allie Carter. That one would definitely work!
Question 9: Holly from Chapel Hill asked for a book that "Has all the mutual pining. Friends to lovers, enemies to lovers, doesn't matter. Give me every last drop of pining."
Our recommendations: Sarah suggests Waking Up with the Duke by Lorraine Heath. Jen recommends On Broken Wings by Chanel Cleeton. After we realized that there is lots of pining in Lisa Kleypas, but we think Again the Magic might be best.
Holly had a follow up AMA, "What would your ideal book-centered vacation be?" Sarah said a beach, Jen has always wanted to stay at The Library Hotel, and that led to a discussion of Nora Robert's Boonsboro Inn, in Boonsboro, Maryland. But Jen also loves to read locally, which means reading books set in the places you are traveling.
Question 10: Kara asked for a recommendation that "Has some sort of adventure or quest but is also slow burn."
Our recommendations: Slow burns aren't our speciality. Jen joked she likes a "fast, incendiary burn." Please check out the Hidden Legacy series by Ilona Andrews, and the second one where they finally do it is called White Hot. The first one is called Burn For Me, it's right in the title! If you like fantasy, try Bound to the Battle God by Ruby Dixon. Sarah mentioned A Promise of Fire by Amanda Bouchet. And Aurora Blazing by Jessie Mihalik could count for this category and for pining!
Question 11: Chase from Germany wants "Has m/m with a happy ending and the trope enemies to lovers?"
Our recommendations: Sarah recommends Goalie Interference, which has enemy hockey players. Annika Martin has a good series, the first is called Enemies Like You, and Jen also likes a series by Layla Rayne called Agents Irish and Whiskey. Cask Strength also appeared in Jen's list of Who Did It Better on a Pool Table. You're welcome.
Question 12: Caitlin from Wisconsin wants a book that "Has a plus size heroine, emphasis on fashion...vampires would also be nice."
Our recommendations: We had to handle these two separately. For a curvy heroine with fasion, we recommended Take Me by Bella Andre and The King of Bourbon Street by Thea De Salle. For vampires, try Tall Dark and Hungry by Lynsay Sands. It's about a vampire who writes vampire novels. The Sherrilyn Kenyon book Sarah was thinking about is called Night Play, but it's actually about a werewolf. Oh well.
Question 13: Jess asked, "Has an alpha submissive (I’ve tasked Sarah with this before and want more!)"
Our recommendations: Jen doesn't think this exists, but Sarah recommends The Duke I Tempted, Giving It Up, The Devil's Submission and Sierra Simone's New Camelot series. If you can roll with Kristen Ashley's prose style, try Deacon. There is no pony play involved.
Jess had a follow up AMA: "I would love to hear more about audiobook production. How much say authors have. Do they get to check in during production to make sure jokes are being delivered properly, etc?" Sarah replied that the answer is ... authors don't have much say at all, except maybe a choice of narrators. Sarah loves her narrator, Justine Eyre.
Question 14: Lesley from San Francisco asked for a book that "Has a heroine over 50 who is single (not divorced or widowed)."
Our recommendations: This was a hard one, and we are hoping that listeners will chime in with answers. We don't think any of these heroines are single--all widowed or divorced. But try Apples Are Red, Driving in Neutral, Bound with Love, or Mrs. Martin's Incomparable Adventure. But, you can check out this facebook group for seasoned romance, and Donna posts a weekly Frolic column of seasoned romances. Finally, Sarah recommended London Hale's Talk Dirty To Me.
Question 15: Carly from Atlanta is looking for “there’s only one bed,” historical edition (bonus points if they don’t have sex that time, but do later).
Our recommendations: There are so many of these that we had a hard time answering. Yikes! But A Christmas Gone Perfectly Wrong is amazing. Later in Season 2 of Fated Mates, we'll read Devil's Bride by Stephanie Laurens, but the ohter one Sarah was thinking of was The Capture of the Earl of Glencrae Afterwards, we thought of The Duke Buys a Bride and Tycoon.
Question 16: Shannon in Atlanta said, "Ghosts. I need all the ghosts. I’m regrading Lynn Kurland’s Stardust of Yesterday to see if I am still madly in love with Kendrick like 14 yr old me was. But I need more ghosts. For spooky season and for always."
Our recommendations: So obvioulsy the best IAD book is Dark Needs at Night's Edge. But Halloween Boo and Hot Ghost might also be of interest. After recording, Jen thought of The Headmaster by Tiffany Reisz and Sarah thought of For the Earl's Pleasure by Anne Mallory.
Question 17: Natali from Tampa asked for romances with "a sexy but serious body guard- saves heroine from her evil husband OR serious sexy body guard that is hired by father to care for wild heroine. And/Or sexy but consensual teacher-student relationship."
Our recommendations: Sarah and Jen both liked The Professor by Charlotte Stein. Sarah also recommended The Unrequited by Saffron Kent. Bodyguards for some reason we didn't have specifics, but check out Sexy/Dangerous by Beverly Jenkins, which has a female bodyguard. Fallen by Rebecca Zanetti will work. But also, Jen is convinced that something in Lexi Blake's Masters and Mercenaries series will work.
Question 18: Nisha wants books that are "bananas sexy."
Our recommendations: Ice Planet Barbarians forever. But Brill Harper anything will work, and Jen especially recommends Altogether. Everyone on twitter thinks White Whiskey Bargain is super hot, and The Red is amazingly sexy. Grace Goodwin's Interstellar Brides series is also pretty hot.
S02.10: Amnesia Romance Novels
We’re talking about the most scientific of topics today — it’s Amnesia Week! Whether you love or hate it, or believe it simply doesn’t exist, you can’t deny the fact that amnesia has kept a battalion of romance readers in books for nigh on forty years. And of course, we’re talking about Overboard.
Next week, we’re switching things up and running a full recommendation podcast! You asked us questions, and we’re recommending a metric romance ton of books! Don’t miss it!
In two weeks, we’re going to a classic of classics! The read was on both Jen & Sarah’s list—Loretta Chase’s Lord of Scoundrels, which is on the lions’ share of Best Romance Novels Ever lists. We’ll get into why. Read Lord of Scoundrels at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
SHOW NOTES
Listen, it's Eric FONER. He's kind of a big deal.
More about how brains develop.
A twitter thread about Sarah's brain surgeon.
The kind of Amnesia in books and movies isn't real, but in case you were wondering, all about global amnesia and aphasia.
Jen & Sarah have seen the 80s version of Overboard 100 times, and the 2018 version no times.
Speaking of Pregneisa... on the podcast I Don't Even Own a Television, these two guys mostly read it to make fun of it, but then listen to just this snippet of Jeb Lund TOTALLY GETTING ROMANCE.
Kylie Scott does write about zombies, and threesomes, and rock stars, and getting with your Dad's best friend.
Jen did write about Lies as an example of an Unreliable Narrator, but she still enjoyed the book!
Jen couldn't locate the future/present/past thread on twitter, but this is a placeholder in case she ever does.
All about that incel bullshit.
The Silent Towns is a short story by Ray Bradbury in The Martian Chronicles---which Jen really liked for the most part! Try There will Come Soft Rains instead.
The Last Man on Earth is a TV show and While You Were Sleeping was a movie.
Jen likes the scummy, sexy white boy thing Matthew McConaughey has going on.
"Don't You Forget About Me" is the theme song to The Breakfast Club. No one had amnesia in the movie, they were just teenagers likely to be shitty to each other.
Buy buttons from Kelly and shirts from Jordandené.
Ashley from Southern California was blooded by The Duchess War by Courtney Milan
Next week we're doing the first of our big romance recommendation podcasts, but get reading Lord of Scoundrels by Loretta Chase -- it's our next read!
S02.09: Sierra Simone's Midwest: Priest
It’s Priest week! Sarah put Sierra Simone’s Priest on her Books that Blooded Her list, and this episode is a ride! Jen’s reading first person narrative, we’re both escaped catholics, Sarah imprinted on The Thornbirds, we’ll get to the bottom of anal sex in church (see what we did there?), and fully disagree about how much guilt is too much guilt for a hero. Plus, you’ll hear us tell you how brilliant we think Sierra is.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review!
In two weeks, we’re going to a classic of classics! The read was on both Jen & Sarah’s list—Loretta Chase’s Lord of Scoundrels, which is on the lions’ share of Best Romance Novels Ever lists. We’ll get into why. Read Lord of Scoundrels at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
Show Notes
We love Sierra Simone! Sarah talked about Sinner on the Best Friend's Sibling episode, and Sierra was a special guest on our MacRieve episode. She'll also be joining us on a very special future interstitial.
Will Kresley drop Munro like Beyonce? One can only hope.
If you want to join Sarah's FB Old School Romance Book Club group, click here and wait for moderator approval. We (try to remember but sometimes have to be reminded to) post a discussion post for each week's episode there.
Have you listened to what we consider to be our sister podcasts: The Wicked Wallflowers, Heaving Bosoms, and Black Chick Lit? We also love Learning the Tropes and RomBkPod. Check them out for all your listening needs.
Facebook is garbage and Zuckerberg is aiming for Bond Villain.
The modern day dirty priest fantasy is Fleabag, the old school one is The Thornbirds.
If you're not following Jen Porter on Twitter, what are you doing with your life?
Sierra's Markham Hall series is an erotic retelling of Jane Eyre.
What does it even mean to be star-crossed?
More about reader response theory.
A defintion of "framing device" and how they work in fiction.
In the Catholic Church, penance is one of seven sacraments.
In case you want to know more about hairshirts as a thing, but please don't wear one.
In the Ice Planet Barbarians series, the khui is a mystical thing on the ice planet. That's really all you need to know.
More about the history of Rhode Island as a haven for escaped Catholics. No not that kind of escaped Catholic.
The 2015 movie Spotlight is about the investigative journalists who broke the story of priest sexual abuse in Boston. In one famous scene, a reporter knock on the door of a retired priest who answers her questions in a shocking way. (All the trigger warnings on that scene, by the way.)
Mark Ruffalo the hulk vs Mark Ruffalo in Spotlight.
Sarah recommends the audio of Priest.
This summer, the Catholic Diocese of Providence released the names of 50 priests who were credibly accused of abuse.
Celibacy is a core tenent of Catholic priesthood, but as less and less men enter the priesthood, that might be changing in some interesting ways. Please note that the Vatican is more likely to lift celibacy requirements before they'd allow the ordination of women.
If this is the defintiion of an inspirational romance, then Priest qualifies.
The Tessa Bailey book with "baby girl" is Fix Her Up. It's hot if you don't mind that sort of thing.
Hot Cop is a book by Sierra Simone and Laurelin Page.
In season 2 of Fleabag, the therapist who asks if she wants to "fuck the priest or fuck God" was played by Fiona Shaw. Kristen Scott Thomas gives a barn burner of a speech after the "people are all we have" moment.
All about Saint Anselm.
In case you don't know, the home at the parish for the priest is called the rectory.
Sarah refers to the book of the Bible as Song of Songs, but it's also called the Song of Solomon.
Jenny Nordbak was a guest host on Heaving Bosoms talking about Priest, and it's a great episode if you just need more. Sierra Simone was also on a delicious episode of Wicked Wallflowers!
The sequel to Priest is called Midnight Mass.
Why is a nun's outfit called a habit?
Erin from Heaving Bosoms famously does not read prologues or epilogues. We love her even though we don't really understand.
Shop for buttons from Best Friend Kelly and t-shirts and totes from Sarah.
Christina called in today to talk about Colleen McCullough's The Thornbirds, and we hope she enjoyed Sarah's shout out to it this week!
Coming up: Lord of Scoundrels by Loretta Chase on Nov 20, 2019; Indigo by Beverly Jenkins on Dec 4, 2019; Born in Ice by Nora Roberts on Dec 18, 2019; and A Kingdom of Dreams by Judith McNaught on Jan 8, 2020.