S06.24: All Dukes are Roofers: Renovation Romance with Nikki Payne
We’re joined this week by the fabulous Nikki Payne, author of Pride & Protest and this month’s new release Sex, Lies & Sensibility to talk about home renovation romance and why we all love it so much! Is it because of competence? Yes. Because we like it when characters have to walk through fire together? Definitely. Because of the metaphor for our lives and futures? Absolutely. We talk about all these things, and how Old School historical really did the business on this trope. And — a bonus! Sarah finally gets to talk with someone about Jane Austen!
Nikki is joining us at Fated Mates Live! Join us in Brooklyn, NY, at the gorgeous William Vale Hotel, on March 23rd, along with Kate Clayborn, Lauren Billings (one-half of Christina Lauren) and a roomful of other romance-obsessed listeners for a night of romance shenanigans at a live taping of Fated Mates! While we’re never sure quite how it’s going to go, we can guarantee there will be books, booze and bantr…and you’ll leave full of joy from all the fun. We’ve even got The Ripped Bodice on hand to sell books, and the room will be available for hanging with other Firebirds after the live!
Preorder Kate’s The Other Side of Disappearing three days early (and books from everyone else!) from The Ripped Bodice—links, tickets and more info are at fatedmates.net/live.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Our next read along is Heather Guerre’s Preferential Treatment, one of Sarah’s favorite romances of 2022. Get it at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
Show Notes
Welcome Nikki Payne, author of Sex, Lies, and Sensibility. She’ll be at the Ripped Bodice on Feb 23, and at Fated Mates Live, along with Kate Clayborn, Lauren Billings from Christina Lauren, and a few hundred Magnificent Firebirds on March 23, 2024. You can get signed copies of her books at East City Books in DC.
Jen had to read A Separate Peace in high school and doesn’t have the best memories of it, to be honest.
The mid-90s were a real high tide for Austen adaptions: in 1995 the movies Clueless and Sense and Sensibility and a miniseries of Pride and Prejudice, and the following year the movie Emma.
A little bit more about the rights of American women to have their own bank accounts, but women’s access to fair credit is still unjust.
A few movies we discussed this week: The Money Pit, Something New, and Baby Boom.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Avon Books, publishers of Tessa Bailey’s Fangirl Down,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books or wherever you get your books.
and
Blue Box Press, publishers of Jennifer Armentrout and ’s
Visions of Flesh and Blood: A Blood and Ash/Flesh and Fire Compendium,
available in print and ebook from Amazon.
Fated Mates Live -- Guest Announcement!
We are so so excited to announce our incredible guest lineup for Fated Mates Live in Brooklyn, NY, on March 23, 2024! Get tickets and more info at fatedmates.net/live!
We’ll be joined by some of our very favorites:
Kate Clayborn, Fated Mates five-timer and author of Georgie, All Along and the upcoming (three days after FML!) The Other Side of Disappearing.
Nikki Payne, author of Pride & Protest and the brand new Sex, Lies & Sensibility, and
One half of Christina Lauren! Lauren Billings (aka Ivy Owens) is coming from the other side of the world (ok, LA, but STILL) to join us—and just might have a few early copies of The Paradise Problem to share!
The Ripped Bodice will be on hand to sell books the night of, but we urge you to preorder your books (especially Kate’s latest, The Other Side of Disappearing, which is available early at this event exclusively) before you come at The Ripped Bodice, Brooklyn website! In addition to these amazing authors, we’ll be joined by some of our favorite people, in general, and by so many Firebirds! We’ve reserved the room at The William Vale for after the event so people can hang, make new friends, and meet the authors.
Get tickets and more info at fatedmates.net/live, and preorder books now from The Ripped Bodice!
S06.23: Casinos, Gaming Hells, and Clubs in Romance Novels
We’re talking about gaming hells! Is it residual Derek Craven love? Probably. Why does Sarah love a casino so much? Why are we so into ladies being wagered by the idiot men in their lives? What makes these places that are so not sexy in real 2024 life so incredibly hot in a) James Bond movies, b) heist movies, and c) historical romances? We’re getting to the bottom of it—or at least, we’re going to talk about books we love. That’s the Fated Mates promise.
We’re betting you’re going to love this one! (see what we did there?)
We also talk about Fated Mates Live! Join us in Brooklyn, NY, at the gorgeous William Vale Hotel, on March 23rd, along with a collection of special guests and a roomful of other romance-obsessed listeners for a night of romance shenanigans at a live taping of Fated Mates! While we’re never sure quite how it’s going to go, we can guarantee there will be books, booze and bantr…and you’ll leave full of joy from all the fun. We’ve even got The Ripped Bodice on hand to sell books, and the room will be available for hanging with other Firebirds after the live! Tickets and info are at fatedmates.net/live.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Our next read along is Heather Guerre’s Preferential Treatment, one of Sarah’s favorite romances of 2022. Get it at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
Show Notes
Get Fated Mates Live tickets for March 23, 2024 in Brooklyn.
We think that waking up married is different than casinos.
Derek Craven is of course our favorite casino-owner, but Sarah wrote a pretty famous casino series, too.
In modern times, casinos are owned by giant conglomerates and they are definitely making a ton of money, Especially this past weekend since the Superbowl was in Vegas.
The Taylor Swift Effect is real.
Have we mentioned that there are lots of movies about casinos out there in the world.
“Fuck me gently with a chainsaw” is a reference to Heathers, not a dark romance.
An explainer about fantasy sports and where they are legal.
You can join Sarah and Julia Quinn next Tuesday, February 20, online via Zoom. They'll be talking about all things Bridgerton, about romance, about reading and writing, and taking questions! Register for the free event, sponsored Illinois Libraries Present, and join them!
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Avon Books, publishers of Olivia Dade’s At First Spite,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books or wherever you get your books.
and
1001 Dark Nights, publishers of Carrie Ann Ryan’s
Happily Ever Maybe, available in print and ebook from Amazon.
06.22: A Dish Best Served Hot by Natalie Caña
We’re so excited for today’s deep dive on Natalie Caña’s A Dish Best Served Hot — a sexy, second-chance romance that gave us so many feelings, including delight that Natalie is at the very beginning of her romance writing career! Here we talk about taking big swings in romance, about telling love stories against the backdrop of real life issues, and about how this book’s ending might be the closest thing to Kleypas we’ve read in a long time. Get the book at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
We also talk about Fated Mates Live! Join us in Brooklyn, NY, at the gorgeous William Vale Hotel, on March 23rd! Join us along with a collection of special guests and a roomful of other romance-obsessed listeners for a night of romance shenanigans at a live taping of Fated Mates! While we’re never sure quite how it’s going to go, we can guarantee there will be books, booze and bantr…and you’ll leave full of joy from all the fun. We’ve even got The Ripped Bodice on hand to sell books, and the room will be available for hanging with other Firebirds after the live! Tickets and info are at fatedmates.net/live.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
On March 16 2024, Jen will be at the Forest Park Library for an event called Book Buzz. Use this link to register. It’s all about romance, and Natalie Cana, Nicole Falls, and local Forest Parker Maria Monroe.
Selective mutism is a type of anxiety disorder.
Humboldt Park is a Chicago neighborhood that has been ethnically Latine with the largest Puerto Rican population in the city, for a long time. The gentrification described in the book is a real problem facing the neighborhood. If you were inspired by this story, you can support La Case Norte, a real Humboldt Park organization that supports homeless teenagers.
This whole Arrested Development thing about Army was very funny, just trust us.
The Rock having a tea party with his daughter is very adorable.
February romance articles are coming, including one written by Jen for Kirkus.
You can sign up for the virtual conversation with Sarah and Julia Quinn, hosted by the Illinois Libraries (which includes Oak Park) on Feb 20th, 2024.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
The Meet Cute Bookshop, a romance bookstore in San Diego, CA
find them online at meetcutebookshop.com
Blue Box Press, publishers of Legacy of Temptation
by Larissa Ione, available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books
or wherever you get your books.
and
Meghan Quinn, author of The Reason I Married Him, available in print and ebook,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
06.21: Derek Craven Day 2024 : Heroes who Yearn with Sanj
It’s February which means it’s time for the biggest holiday in romance — Derek Craven Day! We’re so thrilled to be able to celebrate this remarkable man—born in a drainpipe, named himself, turned to a life of spectacle stealing—with all of you! This year, we’re so excited to have friend of the pod and of Cravens, Sanjana (follow her on TikTok at baskinsuns), to chat with us about her landmark research: A Comprehensive Categorization of Kleypas Heroes. We laugh, we get serious, and yes, we even talk about Zachary Bronson. — calm down, Bronsonettes.
Also — it just feels right that we’re announcing Fated Mates Live on Derek Craven Day! Join us in Brooklyn, NY, at the gorgeous William Vale Hotel, on March 23rd! Join us along with a collection of special guests and a roomful of other romance-obsessed listeners for a night of romance shenanigans at a live taping of Fated Mates! While we’re never sure quite how it’s going to go, we can guarantee there will be books, booze and bantr…and you’ll leave full of joy from all the fun. We’ve even got The Ripped Bodice on hand to sell books, and the room will be available for hanging with other Firebirds after the live! Tickets and info are at fatedmates.net/live.
Next week, we’re deep diving on Natalie Caña’s A Dish Best Served Hot. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
Welcome Sanj. You can find her on TikTok or twitter. Her “Comprehensive Categorization of Kleypas Heroes” below went through several iterations during the pandemic, you're looking at v4. Lots of people have organized their thoughts about Kleypas characters, we also liked this one that’s a Venn Diagram.
Kate Clayborn joined us in 2021 to address a deeply silly list of questions and scenarios submitted by Magnificent Firebirds. It is absolutely worth a second listen.
In 2023, we dropped That’s So Craven. And then there’s our Dreaming of You read along.
If you’re looking for hard data about what Derek Craven would or would never do, or just want to browse some absurd memes, the official Derek Craven Day master page has you covered. There are a few new memes this year and an answer to an important new question about Derek shopping at Winterborne’s.
Finally, the YouTube version of the 2021 Derek Craven Day episode will light up any display from phone to TV with an exhaustive list of Derek Creaven would/never scenarios. You can turn down the sound and just have it loop all day long. It’s very possible that only Eric thinks this is a good idea, but you never know.
Oh, and this.
Books Mentioned This Episode
06.20: It's Romance Science!
This one is probably as goofy as we get — we’ve spent six years talking about Romance Science, and now class is in session! We’re talking biology, human physiology, astronomy, neurology, urology, gynecology, obstetrics and dermatology. Basically, we’ve studied this enough to hold multiple MDs & PhDs. If we’re ever on a plane and someone needs a doctor, we’re volunteering. Love doctors count, right? We hope you enjoy listening as much as we enjoyed recording.
Our first read along of 2024 is Natalie Caña’s A Dish Best Served Hot. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
Two brothers who are both in the NFL, that’s romance science. Kylie Kelce seems pretty cool. Too bad we missed her book.
On twitter, you can check out the Male Scent Catalog, and Jen has talked about this flower thing, too.
Conveniently, Jen wrote a review of the book where that guy had Periwinkle eyes, it was called A Very Private Love by Melinda Cross.
What are Palazzo pants, you might be wondering.
When it comes to superheroes, everyone is beautiful and no one is horny. Believe it or not, that’s not even how we ended up on Christopher Reeve as Superman.
You should definitely pee after sex if you have a vagina.
There is a huge difference between a million and a billion, or here’s [another way] to see it11, or another way.
Jen is obsessed with lens wipes, and you will be, too, if you try them.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
1001 Dark Nights, publishers of Just One Summer, a Dirty Dare Series Novella
by Carly Phillips, available at Amazon.
and
Pippa Grant, author of The Bride's Runaway Billionaire, available in print and ebook,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S06.19: One Night Stands
It seems impossible that we haven’t done this one, but we haven’t done this one! We’re talking one night stands—the absolute classic that ends up being a part of so many chaotic, wonderful romances. We’re talking about how they work, why its so important for them to make sense in the context of the story, and how the best authors inject emotion into one life-changing moment (often) early in the book. Enjoy!
Our first read along of 2024 is Natalie Caña’s A Dish Best Served Hot. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
It’s the most wonderful time of the year: the The rom com brackets are out, hosted by Allie Parker of the RomEverAfterPod.
Joy Ride was a great movie, even if Jen bungled the plot description. She was excited, okay!
Sarah and Jen have been doing some other fun reading. Sarah read Jess K Hardy’s forthcoming Lips Like Sugar and she also got some cool paperbacks from the inlaws: Gift of Fire and A Coral Kiss by Jayne Ann Krentz along with Nora Roberts’ Charmed. Jen and Ernie were reading Reacher short stories.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
1001 Dark Nights, publishers of Rock Chick Rematch by Kristen Ashley
available at Amazon.
and
LJ Evans, author of After All the Wreckage, available in print and ebook,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Jo Brenner, author of the Bad Heroes Series,
beginning with You Can Follow Me and now complete with Meet Me In the Dark
available in print or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S06.18: Firefighter Romance Novels
Is it getting hot in here? It is! We’re talking about firefighters this week — arguably the best of the hero(in)es in uniform because, let’s face it, there’s something pretty sexy about someone who will run into flames to save a stranger…let alone to save you. We’re talking about primordial firefighters, about patriarchy (obviously), about the difference between city firefighters and smoke jumpers, and about about the nature of a love interest who puts themself in danger for a living. All that, and they can dead lift you, too.
Our first read along of 2024 is Natalie Caña’s A Dish Best Served Hot. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
You can watch some movies and shows about firefighters and paramedics: Backdraft, Chicago Fire, and Sky Med.
Here’s a snipped of the scene from Backdraft where they break a car window to get the hose to the hydrant.
Wildland firefighting is dangerous and often underpaid, and the Marshall Project has written extensively on prisoners forced into these jobs. Also, here is a first person account of two men who used emergency fire shelters to survive a wildfire.
Firefighting demographics are actually pretty bad in Chicago, and here’s a libguide (a library designed portal for collecting links/info on a certain topic) from the University of Illinois about this history of women in firefighting.
Too bad about Charmed by the Alien Vampire Firemen!
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Jo Brenner, author of Meet Me In the Dark,
available in print or audio at Amazon,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
1001 Dark Nights
publishers of The Wild Card: A Rivers Wilde Novella by Dylan Allen
available at Amazon.
S06.17: Fresh Starts and New Beginnings in Romance Novels
It’s January, which means we’re all being inundated with resolutions and new beginnings, which might be your thing and might not…but you can’t deny that a character tossed into a fresh start makes for a great romance. Today we’re talking about all the ways characters start over in romance—after heartbreak, after failure, or with an eye toward a different life. Whatever you decide to do with your January, we hope these books are a part of it. Happy New Year, Firebirds!
Our first read along of 2024 is Natalie Caña’s A Dish Best Served Hot. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo or your local indie.
If you just can’t get enough of us, consider joining our Patreon! You get an extra episode of banter every month and access to the Fated Mates discord, full of people who love romance as much as we do. It’s pretty great, we have to say. Learn more at patreon.com/fatedmates.
Show Notes
Perhaps you want to brush up on some other New Year's traditions in the next 355 days to get ready for 2025.
Google is so bad now, and here are a few different explainers.
Our next deep dive will be A Dish Best Served Hot by Natalie Cana.
Sponsors
Max Monroe, author of Cluelessly Yours,
available in print or audio at Amazon,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Desiree M. Niccoli, author of Follow Me to the Yew Tree, coming January 30, 2024
Available for preorder at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, and Kobo.
and
1001 Dark Nights, publishers of Dragon Kiss by Donna Grant
available at Amazon.
S06.16: Happy New Year: Breeding Kink with Mila Finelli
It’s New Years Eve, and that means tackling some of the more headphones-in stuff in the Romance Pool, we don’t make the rules. Ok. We kind of make the rules, and this is the New Years Eve service we provide. Today, we’re talking breeding kink in romance with one of our faves, Joanna Shupe! She’s here in disguise though, as Mila Finelli, author of absolutely fire mafia romances, including her latest, Mafia Virgin, which features this particular trope and is a full on delight.
As usual, we start out giggling and then get serious as we try to get to the bottom of this very specific thing that seems to have had a recent resurgence in romance. We do patriarchy, body autonomy and heteronormativity, then get into the provenance of this particular romance trope, and finally to the but why tho part of the discussion with a minor detour about spelling. We net out at…well, just give it a listen. But for the love of all that is holy, put your headphones in.
Happy New Year, Magnificent Firebirds. We love you a lot and hope that 2024 is the best year yet. xx Jen & Sarah
Show Notes
Welcome Joanna Shupe, who writes mafia romance under the name Mila Finelli. The 5th book in the Kings of Italy series, Mafia Virgin, is available now.
Our New Years Eve episodes are always...interesting. Listen to past years:
2019: Pegging in Romance with Sierra Simone
2020: Jessa Kane extravaganza with Andie Christopher, Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera, LaQuette, Tracey Livesay, Nisha Sharma, and Joanna Shupe
2022: Omegaversity with Adriana Herrera and Ali Hazelwood
In 2021 we released the Season 2 Ted Lasso Roy Kent lovefest on New Year's Eve, but we were still pandemic-ing, so please don't blame us for the detour in brand that year. We came back with a bang in 2022, and now, in 2023, we're the full banana, as surely you can agree.
If you haven't listened to the trailblazer episode with Elda Minger, you should.
Joanna mentioned this article from Salon about young conservative men and the tradwives fantasy, and a recent CNN article about the phenomenon.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Meghan Quinn, author of He’s Not My Type,
available in print or audio at Amazon,
or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Lucy Morris, author of Snowed in with the Viking,
available at Kindle, Kobo, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble
or your local independent bookseller
and
Avalon Griffin, author of Unbound By Shadows
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
06.15: Holiday Romances for 2023
It’s our annual holiday romance episode, and we’re so excited to have you with us! No Santa this year, but we’ve got Toy Runners, audio sexitimes in the Alps, menage in NYC, and more than one snowy cabin just waiting to keep us isolated from the outside world. You’re going to love it. Headphones in, though, please!
We don’t have an episode next week, but we’ll be back with a special guest for our annual New Years Eve episode. In the meantime, we hope you get everything you want from whomever you believe in. Thanks for being with us in 2023 — we can’t wait for what comes next.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
We read a bunch of books for the holidays, but mostly they lean Christmas this year. Last year’s episode was just about Santa.
Our listener Katie sent us the Instagram Reel about Daddy December, but it's gone now!
Subscribe to the BookBub daily email. You won’t be sad! I also followed @Shadesnpages who had two different #jinglebooks games, one for Naughty and one for Nice. The Lifetime movie that promised a sex scene failed to deliver, and Jen made a joke about it on Twitter, of course.
Audio porn exists -- check out the British Filth archive on Tumblr, MitchellASMR on Patreon (some free stuff on Patreon without subscription, too), and apparemtly, the place to find audio now is Quinn. Try it here.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Sara Ohlin, author of Winter Wonderland Love,
available at Kindle, Kobo and Barnes & Noble
and
Meredith Schorr, Someone Just Like You,
available at Kindle, Kobo, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble
or your local independent bookseller
06.14: Dragon Bound by Thea Harrison
You didn’t think we were going to stay silent during the current dragon frenzy, did you? We absolutely have things to say about dragon heroes, and the one from Thea Harrison’s Dragon Bound in particular — which meant we had no choice but to do a surprise deep dive, read along! We talk about dragon shifters, about the history of dragons in romance, about why we think this is a near perfect example of paranormal romance and road trip romance. Also, if you are looking for rom com, look no further. This is a funny funny book.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Get our Best Romance of 2023 book box from Pocket Books Shop in Lancaster, PA. We're excited to be partnering with them on this one!
Dragons are kind of big right now.
A Cowby Christmas Romance, the Lifetime Movie with the sex scene, failed to deliver.
Wikipedia 0, Jen 1. Playing records backwards used to be a big thing everyone was worried about, but then we got over it and it's just something Harry Styles does.
Ladyhawke is a super great movie from the 1985, but then again, we’re old.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Carly Lane, author of The Regency Guide to Modern Life
available now from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books and your local indie,
Mila Finelli, author of Mafia Virgin,
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited,
and
Rochelle B. Weinstein, author of What You Do to Me,
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
06.13: Sarah & Jen are Taking Your Questions
It’s December, Jen is in NYC, and we’re taking questions from our Discord and Instagram! Listen to us talk about how we read, what makes us DNF, how we met, the books we loved this year (that weren’t published this year), and more. We love these episodes, and not only because they happen when we’re together on Sarah’s couch, but also because we get to talk directly to you!
Next week’s episode is a surprise deep dive, because y’all are wild about dragons! We’re reading Thea Harrison’s Dragon Bound, available in print and ebook at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo and your local indie.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Get our Best Romance of 2023 book box from Pocket Books Shop in Lancaster, PA. We're excited to be partnering with them on this one!
You know what we meant when we talked about Bart writing on the chalkboard.
If you’ve never been to New York City at Christmas, we would highly recommend it. This year, the windows at Saks were cosponsored by Dior and celebrated the signs of the zodiac, and it’s pretty awesome. But there’s also the angels and the Rockefeller center tree, and the Bryant Park holiday market.
Jen also went to Back to the Future the musical and ate at the place with two bulls, which was actually called Benny John’s.
Tillie Cole has bigger problems then Jen not liking any mention of cults in the books she reads.
If you’re looking for a romance writer’s conference, check out the Chicago North conference in April of 2024.
Some bookish gifts: a Book stand, a bluetooth page turner for your eReader, and get a stand while you’re at it.
Tracey Livesay made a very funny and very perfect video this week about the rise of Romantasy.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Melanie Greene’s Away with a Stranger,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books, or wherever you get your ebooks,
Charlotte O’Shay, author of Snowfire,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books, or wherever you get your ebooks,
and
Lumi Labs, creators of Microdose Gummies,
visit microdose.com and use the code FATEDMATES
for 30% off your order and free shipping.
06.12: Best Romance Novels of 2023
The Best Romance Novels of 2023!
It’s the best and worst task for us, because we read so many fabulous books over the course of the year, and choosing ten is hard, ok? But here they are — ten books we adored—books that delivered all the things we love in romance: sharp edges, sparkling dialogue, strong heroines and smoking hot chemistry.
Buy the Fated Mates Best of Book Pack in one fell swoop from our friends at Pocket Books Shop in Lancaster, PA, and get seven of the traditionally published books on the list (many of them with signed book plates) and a Fated Mates sticker! We love the idea of you gifting yourself this box, but maybe you’d like to slide into someone’s text messages with the link as a very excellent gift for you! Or…you can do what Sarah does, and buy the box and spread the love around—sending each of the books to someone on your list.
FYI, Freya Marske’s A Power Unbound is on this list, but it’s the final book in the series, and you really should read this series from the start, so you can elect to add her "A Marvelous Light” to the box, along with a collection of other 2023 books by our favorite people (or a signed Sarah MacLean book!) if you’d like! Let us know what you end up doing with these fabulous books, and don’t forget to tag us on Instagram or Twitter when you unbox!
Check out our “Best Romance Novels” lists from previous years: 2022, 2021, 2020, and 2019. (We were 5 minutes old in 2018 and didn’t do a list that year!)
Thank you, as always, for listening. If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your favorite podcasting app, we would be very grateful.
The Best Romance Novels of 2023
Fantastic 2023 Romance By Our Friends
Sponsors
This week’s episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by:
Piper Rayne, authors of Single and Ready to Jingle
Read it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or Kobo
or wherever you get your audiobooks.
and
Kathryn Nolan, author of Keep You Both
Get it at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
The Book Larder, a community bookstore in Seattle, WA
specializing in cookbooks and food writing. Get personalized shopping help and use the code FATEDMATES for 10% off your order at booklarder.com.
Sarah MacLean 00:00:00 / #: Best of the year.
Jennifer Prokop 00:00:04 / #: Hard to believe that it is the end of 2023.
Sarah MacLean 00:00:08 / #: Yeah. I know that everybody, it's like the most cliche thing in the world to say that in November of any year like, "How did we even get here?" But why don't I remember the beginning of this year at all? It's just out of my head.
Jennifer Prokop 00:00:25 / #: I don't know. It's truly terrible.
Sarah MacLean 00:00:28 / #: Anyway, do you see I'm wearing these crazy glasses. I'm so sorry that I always look ridiculous now, but I cannot see anymore.
Jennifer Prokop 00:00:38 / #: Yeah, the humiliation of that is super real, right?
Sarah MacLean 00:00:41 / #: It's pretty terrible-
Jennifer Prokop 00:00:41 / #: Where you're just-
Sarah MacLean 00:00:43 / #: It's terrible. I'm not that old. By the way, everybody, in a textual message-
Jennifer Prokop 00:00:51 / #: With me earlier today, I mis-numbered Sarah.
Sarah MacLean 00:00:53 / #: Jenny aged me by two in entire years.
Jennifer Prokop 00:00:56 / #: Your birthday is in three weeks.
Sarah MacLean 00:00:59 / #: It is Sagittarius season coming up. In fact, actually-
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:02 / #: Well, it's still Scorpio season. So guess what? I'm just going to-
Sarah MacLean 00:01:04 / #: It's Scorpio season.
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:06 / #: I'll take what I give you.
Sarah MacLean 00:01:07 / #: Exactly. As we are recording. It is Scorpio season, but when this episode comes out, it will be Sagittarius season. And so I have already begun shouting out my office door. If anybody would like to purchase me a gift anytime in the next month, a very bright light for my desk, which will help me see better would be-
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:30 / #: That would be great.
Sarah MacLean 00:01:32 / #: Welcomed. And I know last week, we talked about Eric's obsession with Wirecutter, and so I'm certain that I'll have a very bright light for my desk that is not at all form and very much function.
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:49 / #: Absolutely. I upgraded the bedside lamp.
Sarah MacLean 00:01:54 / #: Because you can't see. Is it because you can't see, Jen?
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:57 / #: The lamp was broken. I think it's probably fixable, but not by me. And then I somehow got, I think, light bulbs that are way brighter and now it's almost too much in there for me. But you know what? It's okay. It's nice.
Sarah MacLean 00:02:08 / #: Welcome everyone, to Fated Mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
Jennifer Prokop 00:02:15 / #: I'm Jennifer Prokop, romance reader and editor, and I just hope that Eric cut all that out and you have no idea what we're talking about. Maybe you're like, "No, they're probably talking about how Jen-"
Sarah MacLean 00:02:25 / #: Taylor swept.
Jennifer Prokop 00:02:25 / #: "Went to see two concerts this week."
Sarah MacLean 00:02:27 / #: Oh, yeah, you did. But don't tell them who.
Jennifer Prokop 00:02:30 / #: Sure. Well, Trevor Noah I guess wasn't a concert. Comedian. I feel like he's well within the rage of coolness.
Sarah MacLean 00:02:34 / #: Trevor Noah is cool. Sure, sure. He's allowed. He's allowed in.
Jennifer Prokop 00:02:40 / #: Good point. Okay, so we're not going to do that. We're just going to talk about romance novels that we loved in 2023.
Sarah MacLean 00:02:46 / #: Which because we are young and relaxed and groovy.
Jennifer Prokop 00:02:50 / #: Yes.
Sarah MacLean 00:02:53 / #: No, but here's the thing. This is our episode. Every year, this is the episode we look forward to the most. We get so excited. We do a lot of scrappy discussion of who should be on the list, who gets to decide which book, who gets to talk about which book. Because often, there are books where we overlap and we love them both very much. And then there's usually a book or two where one of us has read it and the other one hasn't, which is also fun. And this week, this year, I think we have all of those things. As always, let's get the important stuff out of the way.
00:03:27 / #: There are ways for you to support all of these authors, all while supporting a queer, woman-owned, anti-racist, super feminist bookstore in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. An indie bookstore that loves romance so much, they put them all right at the front of the store, right inside the door. This is pocketbooks in Lancaster. You can head over to fatedmates.net/pocketbooks and order this group of books, the box along with some extra titles, which we'll talk about at the end of the episode. So what we've done this year, Pocket has put together the official box and then in classic Fated of Mates fashion, we just can't stop ourselves. So there are a bunch of other books that you'll be able to add on as supplemental stuff, including all of my books, signed. So we're super excited. Many of the books in the box will come with signed book plates and they will also come with Fated Mates stickers, Fated Mates pins and Pocket Books maybe is throwing some things in too. So we're excited. It's going to be interesting drops.
Jennifer Prokop 00:04:39 / #: Yeah. It's maybe interesting drops. But it's going to be okay.
Sarah MacLean 00:04:40 / #: Oh, it's not pins?
Jennifer Prokop 00:04:42 / #: I don't know. We're just trying our best.
Sarah MacLean 00:04:43 / #: We don't know what we're doing. It's fine.
Jennifer Prokop 00:04:44 / #: We don't. You'll get something from us. You'll get a letter from us, which usually happens too. So that's fun. And in general, you'll just be able to be relaxed, read romance novels throughout the rest of the year, just like all gas, no breaks through the end of the year.
Sarah MacLean 00:05:01 / #: Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:02 / #: Until 2024.
Sarah MacLean 00:05:02 / #: Reading great books or giving them away. Some people buy the box, they give it to a friend, sometimes they buy the box and they unpack the box and then wrap all the books up for their friends.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:14 / #: I love it.
Sarah MacLean 00:05:15 / #: Listen, I support all of it because in the end, every penny that you spend goes to either a great independent bookseller or...
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:23 / #: A great author. Exactly, okay. So I would like to say before we start, that I am not allowed to put my favorite book of the year on this list because Sarah wrote it. So, sorry everybody.
Sarah MacLean 00:05:35 / #: Oh, listen to that. That was an unplanned.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:38 / #: It was unplanned because she was like-
Sarah MacLean 00:05:39 / #: Unplanned interjection.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:40 / #: Because she was like, "They're not going to let me do it." But listen, I love Knockout Tommy, go Boom. It was amazing. It was dedicated to me and it was my best book of the year. And all week long or weeks we've been planning this, I've been like, "What is wrong with my list?" And then I was like, "Oh, right. Knockout's not on it." So anyway, just throwing that out there.
Sarah MacLean 00:05:57 / #: Well, thank you Jennifer.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:59 / #: Don't have a podcast with an author you love because then you can't put her book on the best of year list.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:03 / #: Exactly. Then she says, "Let's not talk about my books."
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:05 / #: Sure. And I just did that.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:06 / #: And let's not talk about my books. But if you haven't read Knockout, you can buy a signed copy of it as an add-on to your box from Pocket Books.
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:13 / #: Okay.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:13 / #: And that is that.
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:14 / #: That's it. Okay. All right. So how do we want to tackle this list, Sarah?
Sarah MacLean 00:06:20 / #: I don't know. Do you want to play our normal game, which is segues?
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:23 / #: Oh yeah, that's true.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:24 / #: One of us starts and then we try to segue in?
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:26 / #: Sure. I think you should start. I think you should start. I also think if I've counted correctly, we're going with a rogue number 11 this year.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:35 / #: Yeah. That's only because I refused.
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:39 / #: We put some indies and we couldn't really decide.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:40 / #: I was like, they're indies. I get to call too.
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:41 / #: Yeah. We'll just add them. Whatever we want.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:43 / #: Listen, guess what? Everybody we're in charge. We get to do it. We can be chaos.
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:47 / #: Exactly.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:48 / #: Tommy goes boom. Okay, I'm going to start with Ashley Herring Blake. I think it actually might be the most recently published book on the list.
Jennifer Prokop 00:06:58 / #: Okay.
Sarah MacLean 00:06:58 / #: So Ashley Herring Blake, you've heard me talk about these books before. She's writing a Bright Falls series, which is a contemporary romance series set in a small town called Bright Falls. It's all sapphic, though different combinations of sexuality. So we have now seen two books prior to this. It was a group of some number of women. The important number is three here. And the first two books, the two friends got matched up, they got together, they partnered up, and they are very happy. Living happily ever after. And Iris Kelly, who is the third in the trio, Iris is really very happy for her friends, super-duper happy for her friends, but kind of sad. And the reason why she's sad is not because she also wants to be paired up, but because she really misses her friends.
00:08:11 / #: And I think this is a really nice way of entering this new world of contemporary romance. We talk so much over the year. We have talked a lot about what's happening in contemporaries and what contemporary is trying to do, and how it's really about community now, finding community. And I think there's something very refreshing about a character who's like, "I'm super happy for my friends, but I don't get to see them as much anymore." It's not the same because now we have these other people who I also really love, but it's just not the same. So Iris has a fairly new career as a romance novelist, but she had a rough breakup with an ex. She's bi and her ex wanted to have children and she did not want to have children. And she broke up with this man and her parents were unsettled by this. They didn't love it. They wanted a particular kind of life for her that she does not want herself.
00:09:16 / #: And so she's in this funny place as a character and as a person in the world. And she meets her heroine, Stevie, who is an actress who is involved in a community theater production who's also going through her own shit. If you have been around large groups of lesbians, you know that often... I went to Smith. Caveat, I went to Smith. You know that relationship is really when you break up with somebody as a lesbian, often everybody's so connected that your ex doesn't leave the universe, they just stay. You stay in a friend group and it is a challenge in many ways. So Stevie's ex is now dating another friend in their group. It's all complicated and weird and everybody else in the group is like Stevie, "Is it complicated and weird?" And she's like, "It's not at all. I have a new girlfriend." Except she doesn't. What she has is Iris who's on a whim, trying out for this play or going to be a part of this play, which is a queering of Much Ado About Nothing for those of you who are Shakespeare lovers.
00:10:35 / #: Anyway, so she says to Iris, "Would you be willing to fake date me?" And Iris is like, "This actually could be good for me, inspire me. The fake dating will inspire me in my romance writing." And Stevie's like, "This will be good for me because my friends will all believe that I'm over the fact that my ex has fallen in love with somebody else in our group." And so it's just this really big, expansive book about all the different ways that we love and all the complexities of the ways that we love, and how we set boundaries with our families and with our friends and how we learn to be ourselves in these big communities where we start to feel a little bit like fish out of water. On top of it all, Ashley's hilariously funny as a writer. It's just a really fun book. And if you haven't read this series, I am on record for loving it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:11:27 / #: You love the whole series.
Sarah MacLean 00:11:28 / #: And you should just start from the beginning and enjoy yourselves. So that is Iris Kelly Doesn't Date by Ashley Herring Blake.
Jennifer Prokop 00:11:36 / #: Perfect. Okay. I am going to jump to the whole group has a say in you and your ex being around, right?
Sarah MacLean 00:11:43 / #: Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:11:43 / #: And that book is Jana Goes Wild by Farah Heron. I've talked about this book briefly before. One of my big fears, I don't know if you have the same one when we do this every year, is that recency bias will essentially take over, right?
Sarah MacLean 00:12:02 / #: Yes, absolutely.
Jennifer Prokop 00:12:02 / #: Just whatever I most recently read is on my mind. But I read this book, it came out I think in, I want to say April or May of this year. And I think about this book a lot. So one of the things for me about what makes the book the best of, because of course it's also personal, is that staying power feeling. And this to me, is probably one of the best, if not the best second chance romance I've ever read. And so what it is-
Sarah MacLean 00:12:35 / #: A bold statement.
Jennifer Prokop 00:12:36 / #: I know, it is but this book, it really has stuck with me. I think it's so powerful. So anyway, Jana is a single mother, essentially. Her daughter, Imani... Is co-parenting, let me say. And her daughter, Imani, I want to say Imani's like five or six something, four or five, pretty young. And the father, Anil lives also in Toronto, but she is just furiously angry at him still. And we know from the beginning, and I realize that this might be a deal breaker for a lot of people, but it's essentially the prologue, which is they have this really brief intense fling where they meet and connect, and it is just instant love, the way that they felt about each other and the connection they had. And then she finds out that he is married. And so then it's the end of the prologue and now it's like five years later,
Sarah MacLean 00:13:37 / #: Yikes.
Jennifer Prokop 00:13:37 / #: She has a baby and he actually has moved to Toronto to co-parent with her. But she has kept the firmest boundaries of anyone. So he picks her up or she drops her off.
Sarah MacLean 00:13:53 / #: Wait, wait, wait. She has an intense one night stand. He's married and she has a baby?
Jennifer Prokop 00:13:56 / #: No, it's not a one night stand, it's a fling. They have a fling for a couple of weeks.
Sarah MacLean 00:14:01 / #: She gets pregnant?
Jennifer Prokop 00:14:02 / #: She gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby and he moves to Toronto. And so-
Sarah MacLean 00:14:08 / #: Scandal.
Jennifer Prokop 00:14:09 / #: You really understand pretty quickly, his wife was-
Sarah MacLean 00:14:12 / #: Something's up with the wife.
Jennifer Prokop 00:14:13 / #: Right.
Sarah MacLean 00:14:13 / #: Okay.
Jennifer Prokop 00:14:13 / #: He's now divorced and it takes... But the book really, here's I think the thing I really admire about it and you know this too, it's so easy to just be like, "Okay, this man is garbage." And that's what Jana has done. She has compartmentalized it really to the point where she's like, "I just don't interact with him. He is the father of my child and so there's things I have to handle with him." But it's all through email, she doesn't try to talk to him, she doesn't see him. And then what happens is there's a big family wedding and it's a destination wedding to where her family is from in Tanzania. So it's really cool because the whole community, this whole Muslim community in Toronto is going to pick up and go to this destination wedding. And there, she cannot keep Anil in his box.
00:15:07 / #: All of a sudden, she has to see him with their daughter, which she didn't really experience. She gets to see the way that her daughter loves him and their relationship is so sweet. All of a sudden, all of the aunties and everybody are like, "Look at what a good dad he is." But that also fuels a lot of her rage, the way that she gets blamed for being this single mother. And he gets all of the strokes for being this great dad and she really has to let go of so much of the past, so much of her fear about making these choices that make her an outsider to her family and her culture, and just really being herself. And I just think she's a powerhouse character.
00:16:01 / #: I think it sounds a lot like when I'm talking about it almost like that it's women's fiction, but it's such a romance, but it's also a romance that is deeply rooted in the idea of family. They're going to make a family together, their extended family is there. She's really determined to move on finally and he is like... It's just very emotional. I don't know. Like I said, this book has really stuck with me months and months after reading about it. I think about it often and I think it's just a really good example of how second chance is really about you have to show all the baggage and you have to show that these people are really different. And this book shows this. We get the whole journey. And so then at the end when they're back together, you really believe in them. I just think it is a spectacular, spectacular romance. I love it so much.
00:17:06 / #: This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by the Seattle bookstore, The book Larder.
Sarah MacLean 00:17:13 / #: Jen, I'm so excited. I just learned about this today obviously, and I can't, I'm so excited. I got to go to Seattle. The book Larder focuses entirely on cookbooks and food writing and features everything from new cookbooks to imported cookbooks and signed cookbooks. They offer in-person and virtual author talks on their YouTube page. So you can see cooks, and chefs, and cookbook authors in person showing the whole thing, showing how to cook, how to make cool stuff. They are women owned. Jen, they are magnificent firebirds.
Jennifer Prokop 00:17:53 / #: I love this so much.
Sarah MacLean 00:17:55 / #: I'm so excited. It's like all my dream magnificent firebirds have come together. Listen, this is perfect because cookbooks make amazing holiday gifts. I would never buy you one, Jen, but I do buy cookbooks for lots and lots of people at the holidays. They're big, and they're beautiful, and they're full color. And often there are cookbooks that have great storytelling and great writing in them. If you call The Book Larder, you can get a personal interaction with one of the booksellers, and they will help you pick a perfect cookbook, maybe signed, maybe vintage for somebody in your life who loves to cook. If you're in Seattle, you can visit them in Fremont seven days a week. But they have an extensive online shop. You can also call them. They ship everywhere in the world and Fated Mates listeners will get 10% off at The Book Larder right now using the Code Fated mates at checkout online, or I'm sure you could give it to them over the phone.
Jennifer Prokop 00:18:56 / #: Amazing.
Sarah MacLean 00:18:57 / #: You can visit Book Larder at booklarder.com.
Jennifer Prokop 00:19:00 / #: You can also find them on Instagram @Booklarder, or like we said, check out their YouTube channel, which has lots of great content. Thank you to the Book Larder for sponsoring this week's episode. And everybody, get out there and get some great gifts for the upcoming holiday season.
Sarah MacLean 00:19:17 / #: You said that Jana this electric heroine. She's this powerful powerhouse heroine and I'm going to move from there. Then I'm going to go historical to Joanna Shupe's The Duke Gets Even.
Jennifer Prokop 00:19:32 / #: We both love this one.
Sarah MacLean 00:19:34 / #: Well, listen. Most years we say we're not going to talk about books by friends and Joanna is my friend, full disclosure. But sometimes one of your friends writes a book and you're just like, "I got to put it on." And I got to put it on because it was probably my favorite historical of the year. And as everybody knows, I could not let this go without historicals. Okay. So this one, I think you can absolutely read this book on its own. Joanna has done some really deft work here to make sure that it stands by itself. But if you really want a full picture of where we are here, go back to the beginning of the Fifth Avenue Rebels series and start from the beginning. First of all, I'm just giving you a gift there. You should just do that anyway.
Jennifer Prokop 00:20:23 / #: Yeah, just do it.
Sarah MacLean 00:20:23 / #: But The Duke Gets Even is about the Duke of Lockwood. So the whole conceit of the series itself is the Fifth Avenue rebels. We've been watching the Duke of Lockwood over the course of this series, a British Duke, he's come to Newport in the dead center of the Gilded Age to fetch himself an American heiress. He's got a title and he needs the American money, which is literally how history happened. This is real. What we have seen over the course of the whole book is he has successfully chosen or unsuccessfully chosen, like basically every other heroine-
Jennifer Prokop 00:21:01 / #: Oh, yeah. Every other heroine in the book.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:02 / #: In the series, which I think is-
Jennifer Prokop 00:21:03 / #: Not that one.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:03 / #: So delightful. And so he gets engaged or he goes looking and then something falls through and that heroine meets their hero in a prior book. And now here we are, the Duke is here. Listen, he's so sexy. He's so sexy. This book begins, I'm just going to talk about the meet-cute for a second because I think it's so great. Begins with him swimming in the Atlantic off the coast of Newport and it is hot and he's swimming nude. I don't know if he's nude.
Jennifer Prokop 00:21:38 / #: Yes, as one does.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:39 / #: But I'm pretty sure he's nude.
Jennifer Prokop 00:21:39 / #: I'm pretty sure he is. We ret-conned it to be that way.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:41 / #: He's just nighttime and he's just swimming in the fricking Atlantic like a God. And he runs up on this woman who is also swimming in the nude. And he's like, "She's clearly a mermaid."
Jennifer Prokop 00:21:56 / #: So fun. It's so crazy.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:58 / #: So there's no other answer.
Jennifer Prokop 00:22:00 / #: Obviously, that's it.
Sarah MacLean 00:22:01 / #: They basically wet hump because you can't dry hump if you're swimming.
Jennifer Prokop 00:22:10 / #: Oh my God, I'm fine, everybody. Okay.
Sarah MacLean 00:22:12 / #: So they basically wet humped in the Atlantic and then he's like, "Who are you?" And she's like, "It doesn't really matter who I am. Let's not bring names into this, that seems silly."
Jennifer Prokop 00:22:25 / #: Let's not get involved. No.
Sarah MacLean 00:22:26 / #: And he's like, "All right, well why don't you come to my hotel tomorrow and we'll do this for real." And she's like, "Cool." And then the next morning... And so it moves forward and it turns out, so they start to have this secret affair, except it turns out he is engaged to her best friend, at which point, Nelly, who is so cool. All of Joanna's characters are cool because Joanna is so cool. But she's this child. So Nelly's whole story is that she's the child of this incredibly rich railroad magnate, and she's the only child and she just doesn't give a shit. She's like, "I'm going to inherit all this money. I don't need to subscribe to society's expectations for me. I'm just going to live my life. I believe in sexual freedom for women. I think we should have all the same rights as men. I think we should have access to birth control. I'm funding clinics, I'm funding research. I'm funding all this stuff. I'm basically spending all my dad's money on suffrage and shit, no one can tell me what to do." She's the best, right?
00:23:45 / #: No, but she's not the best. She's not a perfect duchess. This is the opposite of what Lockwood needs. He needs somebody who's going to get in line and go meet the Queen, and that is not Nelly's-
Jennifer Prokop 00:23:55 / #: Nelly's not interested.
Sarah MacLean 00:23:56 / #: Nelly's got no plans for that.
Jennifer Prokop 00:23:59 / #: Not interested, no thanks.
Sarah MacLean 00:24:00 / #: So listen, this book is a lot about... What's interesting about it is-
00:24:03 / #: So listen, this book is a lot about ... What's interesting about it is it goes back and forth. We see a lot of the past, so we see them obviously falling for each other in the past of the series because when he's engaged to her best friend, that's the first book in the series, right? It really layers really interestingly. The book is a lot about the past, the truth, what we expect from ourselves and others when we interact with them. Do we expect them to tell us the truth from the beginning? How do we reveal layers of ourselves to each other? How do we think about each other? How do we overcome the past and the way that the past and our realities and our truth make ourselves, make us who we are? And then on top of it, it is so wildly sexy.
Jennifer Prokop 00:24:57 / #: Oh yeah, Joanna knows the job.
Sarah MacLean 00:25:01 / #: It's like finger singing.
Jennifer Prokop 00:25:03 / #: Yes.
Sarah MacLean 00:25:03 / #: It's so great. Anyway, go read the Duke Gets Even by Joanna Shupe. Yeah, it's so, so good. Okay, so I have a historical on my list as well, and I think it also plays around with that whole, do we belong together, right? Which of course maybe is the concept of every romance. But Marry Me By Midnight by Felicia Grossman is a gender swapped Regency Jewish Cinderella retelling, and I could not get enough of this book. And this also is a book that I think came out maybe a couple months ago, maybe in August. And again, one of those ones that's really stuck with me because for a different reason.
00:25:48 / #: In this one, one of my favorite things in romance, and I feel like it is unusual, is when you are reading it and you are literally like, there's no way these two are going to work this out. Right? You just really feel that the conflict is so rich between these two, that there is no possible way that it's going to work out, and that to me is one of my favorite feelings. I often joke that is the high I am chasing in every romance. And so in this case, we have Isabella Lira, it's 1832, so I said Regency, but I guess that's Victorian, whatever. Her father has just died and he was ... The Jewish community has a really powerful group of, I don't know, elders, I guess, who help steward the community. And he also co-owned a business with these brothers, the Berab brothers.
00:26:47 / #: Her father died. Of course, she's in mourning and she's full of grief, but these brothers are really doing something super sketch, which is they are trying to cut her family out of the business. And almost like, it's very interesting the way she feels about it. It's almost like they're erasing him, right? The way that they're trying to just almost eliminate his ... The way that he influenced her as part of the community. It hurts her, right? She loved her father. And I think that's really important because she really essentially has to marry in order to secure the business, but it's not because of money. It's because essentially of her father's legacy that she wants to protect.
00:27:42 / #: And of course, what happens is one of these brothers is going to try and marry her, right? That's going to be their way of doing it, so she has to find somebody else. And what happens is she has enlists the help of Aaron Ellenberg, who is a really interesting member of the community. He is essentially like a custodian. He works at the temple. They've provided him with work because he's almost like an orphan. He doesn't have family of his own, and so they want to support him and give him a way to be a part of the community, but it means he has a really interesting perspective.
00:28:24 / #: She is the consummate insider, right? She's the prince, right? She has everything and seems to be so wealthy and has everything she needs. And he is the one who is essentially ... And it's not quite Cinderella because he doesn't have wicked stepsisters, but he does not have that in that way of being in the community that she does. So he agrees essentially to help her by spying on what's going on in the synagogue as things are happening and funneling her information. And she in return is going to give him money that's going to allow him to be his own person rather than being at the mercy of the largess of the community. Right? So it is just a fascinating book.
00:29:14 / #: The tension between them is the sexual tension and the romantic tension between them is so good, but she just cannot see him as a potential partner because she really thinks she has to be ... What would it mean for my father's legacy if I were to marry this custodian, right? So there's all these subplots, there's good guys and bad guys, and this really delicious romance between these two people that on the face of it should have nothing in common. Right? So that whole Cinderella feeling and even the cover of this book is so beautiful and she really is channeling big Cinderella energy. She's got her hair up, and I just think the whole thing is really spectacular. I loved reading this book. I just fell into it, right? I fell into it, and that is the best feeling.
Jennifer Prokop 00:30:09 / #: I love that. It's wonderful. That's Marry Me by Midnight, by Felicia Grossman.
Sarah MacLean 00:30:15 / #: Then I'm going to do my final historical. Well, I guess it's not my final historical, it's my final straight up historical.
Jennifer Prokop 00:30:23 / #: Okay.
Sarah MacLean 00:30:23 / #: That's what I'm going to do. I want to talk about Ana Maria and the Fox. Again, I have talked about this before briefly, I talked about it on the 23 for 23 episode, but this is by Liana De La Rosa. You have definitely seen this book around. The cover is gorgeous. It's beautiful and illustrated and stunning. And Ana Maria is the eldest of three sisters. They're from Mexico, but this book is set against the backdrop of the Mexican War of Independence from France. I think it's the 1860s. France basically attempted to just take Mexico like, Hey, cool, what if you were just French like us?
00:31:13 / #: And so her family is fighting, they're very, very wealthy Mexicans and some of them are staying, but they have sent these three girls to London to live with their uncle in London for two reasons. One, it gets them away from the war itself, and two, they're gone there in order to drum up support from Britain for the war in Mexico against France. Right? So there's this big political thing happening about that in the background.
00:31:45 / #: But these are incredibly wealthy, young sisters and they turn up and also ... I mean, listen, it's historical, so there are definitely moments where ... This is a real historical heroine. At the very beginning of the book, she's just as likely to charm you into giving all of your money to the Mexican cause as she is to yanking her hat pin out of her hair and shiving you on the docks. Either of those things could happen, and I love both of them, no notes.
00:32:19 / #: And then when she gets there, she meets Gideon Fox, who is a member of Parliament and who, because of his own family history, is a staunch abolitionist. Not that you need to have that be your family history for you to be an abolitionist, but it helps in this case. So he is working very, very hard. It's the 1860s. So while slavery is illegal on the island of Britain, the Atlantic slave trade still is legal and he is working very hard to sway members of parliament to vote to make it illegal. And so he has this very strong, very stern way of being because he's like, I'm doing something incredibly important. There is nothing in the world that is more important than the work that I'm doing, capital W, in parliament.
Jennifer Prokop 00:33:13 / #: Yes.
Sarah MacLean 00:33:14 / #: And she comes in and she's like, I do not disagree. Your work is very important, as is mine. You see what's happening to my people, to Mexico. And then on top of it, there's this layer of she's incredibly wealthy. She has access to all of this high, high level of society in England because of her connections and her wealth, but there are all these little microaggressions that she's having to deal with kind of all the time, which is great.
00:33:45 / #: So of course, two people who are both passionate about their progressive politics and their work, capital W, and the importance of what they're doing and their place in the world, I mean, these two are destined to bang because of course they are. They're going to change the world and they're going to pull on their threads and then they're going to pull on the thread together. It's so-
Jennifer Prokop 00:34:08 / #: I love it.
Sarah MacLean 00:34:09 / #: This is one of those books, you guys, every year, I think to myself, I just want that one romance that makes me feel like this is the work of the genre. This is what we're meant to be writing. And this one is about class, and it's about race, and it's about politics, and it's historical because of course, historical, this is where historical shines, and it's great, it's beautiful. And it could be historical fiction, what you were saying about Jana Goes Wild. It could be shelved in a different place, but it's shelved here and aren't we lucky for it?
Jennifer Prokop 00:34:43 / #: Yeah, I loved it too.
Sarah MacLean 00:34:45 / #: Liana De La Rosa's Anna Maria in the Fox. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Catherine Nolan, author of Keep You Both.
Jennifer Prokop 00:34:56 / #: Catherine Nolan probably sounds familiar to many of you out there that really loved Rival Radio earlier this year. So in this one we have Paige who is a wedding planner. She is going to take her best friend's Beau and Flora up to their wedding venue where they're going to say yes, and she's just going to be checking off things off of her year-end list. However, an unexpected blizzard traps the three of them together in this cozy cabin, and all of a sudden the chemistry that has been at a low simmer between the three of them is going to burn it up. So Paige, of course, is worried, is this going to break up their friendship? She's got a secret that she's worried is going to cause all a big kerfuffle, but I have every belief that this super steamy MFF novella set on New Year's Eve weekend is going to be the best thing for your holiday season.
Sarah MacLean 00:35:52 / #: This is perfect for anybody who is looking for a cozy holiday novella, a forced proximity story, a snowstorm, a book where everyone's bisexual. We are very excited. You can find it in print, in ebook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited, and thanks to Catherine Nolan for sponsoring this week's episode.
Jennifer Prokop 00:36:20 / #: You mentioned ... I don't know how, but I am going to talk about a fantasy romance next. This is independently published, so this one will not be in the box, although I do think that the bookstore is going to see if they can order some print copies as an add-on. So this book is called The Midsummer Bride by Kati Wilde, and I think that Kati Wilde writes a perfect 230-page romance, right?
Sarah MacLean 00:36:50 / #: Listen, that is a treat.
Jennifer Prokop 00:36:52 / #: Especially in fantasy, right? I like a light touch with the world building is what I'm going to say, and so this is part of a series. You can totally read this alone because I've only read some of these books. It's called The Dead Lands, which is I think just the name of ... There's a map at the beginning. Okay?
00:37:16 / #: Anyway, there's a queen, her name's Elena, and she has been cursed and she essentially is dying except for the fact that she is wearing these magic rings, and these magic rings were literally a raven flew into her tent one day and dropped them in her lap, and so she put them on, and it's the only thing that is literally keeping her alive from this curse. And the person that cursed her is her uncle because she's the queen, and so he curses her, and it's complicated. Some of this gets unwound later, all the details, but the only hope she has is that a fortune-teller at one point told her that there would be a man who would essentially fall in love with her the minute he saw her and that this man is what's going to be the barbarian warlord.
00:38:12 / #: Hello? You know I was in, I checked right in, Jennifer checked in, who would essentially help her go back and get revenge on her uncle who poisoned her, who wants her crown. So she, through some deductive reasoning, decides that this guy is this man named Warwick, and Warwick has been languishing in a jail cell. So she puts on her queenly finery, and she's supposed to be ... It's like there's something about gold, so she's covered in gold paint and whatever, and this headdress, and she's so weak from this curse that she can barely hold herself up, but she's like, I got to go and convince this prisoner to marry me.
00:38:59 / #: And sure enough, when he sees her, his eyes light up and she's like, wow, it worked. Right? So he agrees essentially to go with her and there's a lot of fantasy stuff happening, whatever. And eventually what we realized is it's not that Warwick thought he was in love with her. It was that he saw these rings and these rings have been stolen from his people. And if he can recover them, he can stop this curse that's been plaguing his land and he thinks she stole them. So he's like, I'm going to marry this woman, get these rings back, take them to my people and forget this woman. So they are immediately at odds.
00:39:40 / #: Now he pretty quickly figures out, oh, he was wrong about her. And oh, actually he is desperately in love with her. Once he sees her real face, he literally just boom. And so they go off on this road trip adventure and all this business and they finally get married and here's the part that's great. Okay, I'm sorry. I know I'm talking.
Sarah MacLean 00:40:04 / #: No, I love it. Go.
Jennifer Prokop 00:40:06 / #: Okay, I don't want to spoil it, but I will tell you this part. On the day that they're finally getting married, this woman who's marrying them, this witch or whatever, it's a binding ceremony where there's a red ribbon and they tie it to each other and then they pledge their love, but you can also unmarry people in this world by untying this ribbon. There's a way in which once it gets tied a certain way, if you untie it, you can unmarry the person. And so they get married, and this woman who's marrying them is like, you really should not get married with those rings on because they're full of magic and they might have an unintended consequence on the ceremony.
Sarah MacLean 00:40:47 / #: You might not be able to get unmarried.
Jennifer Prokop 00:40:48 / #: And Warwick is like, she can't take them off. She's going to die. At this point, he knows, right? So she has to keep them on, so they go ahead and get married with her wearing the rings. And I am going to tell you, I don't want to spoil it. I'll spoil it for you later. I'm not going to spoil it for everybody here. The third act breakup of this book is the best one I've ever read.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:09 / #: All right, I'm buying it right now.
Jennifer Prokop 00:41:10 / #: You should, because-.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:12 / #: I don't even have to know. I don't even have to know what happens. I'm going to read it tonight.
Jennifer Prokop 00:41:15 / #: It is so fucking good, everybody. I'm sorry. I just swore it so fucking good.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:23 / #: You're sorry. Well, no one here has ever had anything strange put in their ears by us.
Jennifer Prokop 00:41:28 / #: No. So anyway, I just really think that this is a case where the fantasy of it, the world of it is really the super highway to the tension in their relationship and their romance, and it is brilliant, brilliant.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:48 / #: Awesome.
Jennifer Prokop 00:41:48 / #: It's so good. Okay, I'm not going to spoil it. I want to though.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:52 / #: So that is, name it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:41:54 / #: The Midsummer Bride by Kati Wilde.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:58 / #: Okay. So I'm going to do fantasy then because you were just doing fantasy, and this one's a little bit ... There's a caveat with this book for the box.
Jennifer Prokop 00:42:09 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:42:09 / #: Go ahead. Do you have something to say?
Jennifer Prokop 00:42:11 / #: No, I think you should explain that-
Sarah MacLean 00:42:12 / #: Okay. So I'm choosing as one of my best books of the year, Freya Marske's, A Power Unbound, which is the third book in her last binding series. But here's the thing, this is historical romantasy, but the fantasy, it's 55% fantasy, 45% romance, and so you really do need to read all three of these books to know what's going on. You particularly have to read the second book in the series because the romance in this book begins in the second book.
00:42:48 / #: So the last binding series, I'm not going to get too deep in the weeds on what the premise of the series is, but basically it's historical, it's Edwardian England. Magic exists in the first book, which is called A Marvelous Light. There's a human who is accidentally hired to be into a secret position at the foreign office or the home office where his job is essentially to liaise with the magical community. And he's like, oh, shit, magic happens? Tell me all about it. And it's great. In the first book, which is A Marvelous Light, will lead you into this story, which the overarching story is there are bad people in the magic world who are trying to harness all powerful magic themselves and do bad stuff. It's exactly what you imagine it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:43:45 / #: Listen, it's a classic fantasy trope for a reason.
Sarah MacLean 00:43:47 / #: A classic structure, right? So this merry band of what ends up being ... It's actually seven people. These couples pair up, and there's another person, and they're all working toward this ultimate goal of stopping these bad guys. So in the first book, it's like the setup for the whole thing. The second book is Sapphic, the first book is Male Male. The second book is Sapphic, and set on a ship, and it's basically a murder mystery through the whole thing and it's super fun. And then halfway through that book, we meet these two characters who then become the couple in the final book, which is called A Power Unbound. And this book, Jack Lord Hawthorne, who was this just asshole in the last book, just stern. I mean, immediately, the second he's on page, you're like, well, it's obviously going to be his book. He's perfect in every way, for me, he was just the worst.
00:44:48 / #: And in this book, we learned in the very beginning that he was born with a twin, and he and his twin sister had this intense bond, but also had this incredibly powerful magic, so powerful that the moment she started practicing magic, bad men found her and were like, we have to take your magic from you. And when they were children, they were put through a ceremony where their magic was essentially taken from them and she couldn't bear it, and she died. And so he has lost this sibling, but he's also lost ... It's not only his twin, but she was also the other half of his magic, and so it's just brutal and sad. And now we know why he's been such a jerk for a whole book, but it's all going to be okay because he meets Alan.
00:45:40 / #: Now he has Alan and Alan, who is a journalist and a thief and a writer of sexy stories, he does a lot of things, Alan is getting to the bottom of everything that's been going on in the magic world, of course, of which Hawthorne's past is deeply tied up in it. So Freya's threading this really interesting needle where she's telling this big plot about magic, this big fantasy plot, and then matching up these lovely characters along the way. The prior two books were medium sexy, maybe light sexy, then medium sexy. This one is all the way sexy, very, very sexy, and it's really fun. It's really delicious because it's ... If you love the Magpie Lord series, the KJ Charles series, this one is for you. Now, here's the way this is going to work. A Power Unbound is not in the box because it's the third book in the series-
Jennifer Prokop 00:46:43 / #: And it's hard cover, which makes it hard to include for price reasons.
Sarah MacLean 00:46:46 / #: It's in hard cover, so we wanted to be thoughtful about pricing, but you can select A Marvelous Light as an add-on to the box via pocket this year, and you can start this series. Yeah, I think actually they probably are putting ... I'm not sure, I haven't looked at the page, but I think they are probably putting all three of the books there. So if you want to just jump in, if you're like historical fantasy, sign me up, you are not going to be disappointed. So buy all three or maybe put the other two on your holiday list.
Jennifer Prokop 00:47:16 / #: On your to-do list.
Sarah MacLean 00:47:17 / #: Yeah, tell someone you love that they should buy them for you. Can I tell you something? I actually just forgot, Sarah, but I've been in contact with the bookstore. One really cool thing that they're doing this year is they are requesting signed book plates from the authors. So I think the first 100 boxes will have signed books for a lot of these, signed book plates. So I just think that's also really cool. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:47:43 / #: Fred is Australian, and she, I know, is sending sign book plates for A Marvelous Light. So it's a little bit different this year, but if you want to add that in, I can guarantee that it's a very fun time.
00:47:59 / #: This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Piper Rain, authors ...
Sarah MacLean 00:48:03 / #: Fated Mates is sponsored by Piper Rain, authors of, Single and Ready to Jingle. Okay, so our friend, Kenzie really loves Christmas, Jen-
Jennifer Prokop 00:48:12 / #: Of course.
Sarah MacLean 00:48:12 / #: ... like a whole lot.
Jennifer Prokop 00:48:14 / #: It should be a national holiday.
Sarah MacLean 00:48:15 / #: She thinks, yes exactly, December should be a national holiday. And she has this small business where she party plans around Christmas, she decorates, she throws parties, she comes dressed as an elf. Listen, she accidentally turns up to a blind date dressed as an elf. That's a story for another time. It doesn't go so well that blind date and it doesn't go that well for three reasons. One, it turns out that blind date is with Andrew, who is her brother's best friend, who is also the biggest grump she's ever met, and Andrew hates Christmas. So there is just no way this is going to work out.
00:48:55 / #: Here's the problem, Jen. Andrew has to plan his firm's holiday party and he needs somebody who really is crazy for Christmas to come do that for him, which gives Kenzie an opportunity to not only build her small business, but also prove that she can turn this Grinch into a Christmas loving beefcake sounds like.
Jennifer Prokop 00:49:16 / #: Perfect.
Sarah MacLean 00:49:17 / #: So she's going to make his heart grow three times its size.
Jennifer Prokop 00:49:21 / #: And something else.
Sarah MacLean 00:49:22 / #: She's going to make something else grow three times its size. And it isn't long until Andrew discovers that there is such a thing as a Christmas miracle.
Jennifer Prokop 00:49:30 / #: So everybody you can check out, Single and Ready to Jingle, it is available on ebook, in print and also in audio with dual narration, which I know people really love.
Sarah MacLean 00:49:39 / #: And speaking of audiobooks, you can listen to the first three chapters of, Single and Ready to Jingle at the end of this week's episode. Thanks to Piper Rain for sponsoring.
Jennifer Prokop 00:49:53 / #: I don't know how I'm transitioning to my next book, but I'm just going to go ahead and tell you. It is a rom- com. Mickey Chamber Shakes It Up by Charis Reid. And I, gosh, I love this book everybody. Okay, so this, I don't know, you know how you just love a book with great characters? When I'm really thinking about, what is it that drew me to this book, and if you have not read a book by Cherish, she is just a really great writer. She just knows how to, I don't know, there's some people that you just fall into their books and they just know how to take you on this journey.
00:50:30 / #: So Mickey Chambers is young, I think she's 30 or 32 maybe, and she has pieced together, and she is like pure sunshine also. She's pieced together kind of a living as an adjunct at several local universities teaching composition classes. And there's some problems with this. She has a tough time. She doesn't really have great medical insurance. She is kind of constantly trying to make the money work to buy the medicine she needs and pay the rent and all that stuff. And so it's Summer and I think what happens is one of these classes falls through. So she's walking in town and sees this local bar has a help wanted sign.
00:51:20 / #: So she goes into this bar and because she's like, "Look, I'm just going to... How hard can it be to wait tables or be a bartender as a way of just adding some extra money?" And it's really interesting, she has a lot of pride. She has an older, I think he's actually a younger brother who kind of makes enough money and is kind of like, "Let me help you." And she's like, "No, you are not going to help me. I'm going to do it." The bar owner is named Diego Acosta and he is a widower, which I love I'm sorry. I'm not sorry, I love it. And he essentially-
Sarah MacLean 00:51:54 / #: I'm not sorry. I love it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:51:55 / #: I'm not sorry, I love it. Diego is 42, so he's older than her and he is running this bar that had been his wife's. Now she's been, I think, gone for about five years so the grief is sort of really muted. He misses her, but running the bar and the restaurant was her joy and he was just the guy who kind of kept it running and did the bookkeeping and that kind of stuff. But now he's had to really sort of take over in the front and it's been a real struggle for him.
00:52:25 / #: So he's really stressed, but he also promised his wife that he would go back to school. And so it turns out that he is enrolled for his first online class and who do you think is his adjunct? Mickey Chambers.
Sarah MacLean 00:52:40 / #: Perfect.
Jennifer Prokop 00:52:41 / #: Perfect. And you know what, it's really funny-
Sarah MacLean 00:52:44 / #: You know he's my favorite.
Jennifer Prokop 00:52:45 / #: Because you know... Yeah, you know what's always really great though is I think because it's online, it didn't really strike as much and also he's her boss. So he's her boss at the bar and she's his teacher at the college and so it all kind of felt like a little even to me. But I also think there's this really beautiful part where she has assigned just a journaling exercise and he wrote about his wife. And I had this moment where I was like, if being a writing teacher, being an English teacher, you do really sometimes read such incredibly personal things.
00:53:25 / #: And I felt like this was sort of like, but it's just really beautifully done, and the way that Mickey can hear what he has to say and is really encouraging of him as a writer. So anyway, there's all this back and forth and it turns out that she's going to be a bartender with him because they've hired another waitress and it's Summer and there's all these crowds and you guys, this book was just a perfect contemporary romance.
Sarah MacLean 00:53:53 / #: Oh, I love it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:53:54 / #: And I just feel like those are kind of hard to find, but he's grumpy, she's sunshine, but this conflict between them is so rich because of the way that they have some power over each other, but it's just perfect. And even though, I don't know, I had... Adriana recommended this book to me and I was like, "Okay, sure, I'll give it a shot." And I just zoomed right through it. It was that perfect feeling of just being like, "All right, this is how reading a romance should feel."
Sarah MacLean 00:54:30 / #: I love that feeling.
Jennifer Prokop 00:54:33 / #: It's so good.
Sarah MacLean 00:54:33 / #: I love it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:54:33 / #: So it's Mickey Chambers Shakes It Up, by Charis Reid.
Sarah MacLean 00:54:36 / #: I'm going to go from emotion, like real emotion-
Jennifer Prokop 00:54:41 / #: Feelings.
Sarah MacLean 00:54:42 / #: ... big feelings. So I want to talk about Adriana Anders', We'll Never Have Paris, which I was thinking about holding for the holiday episode, but then I was like, "No, I really love this book. I'm going to put it on the list." So I will probably talk about it again in a few weeks when we do our holiday episode. But it is-
Jennifer Prokop 00:55:01 / #: It's awesome. I love this one too.
Sarah MacLean 00:55:03 / #: It's short and incendiary and it's so great, but in classic Adriana Anders fashion. First of all, anybody who's read Adriana's books knows she brings heat in all forms, which is great. And I mean, it's perfection and I read everything she's written because of that, because they're just great, fast, sexy reads. But she does not stop there. Every one of her books has just a big feeling. She minds her character's backstories for intense emotion.
Jennifer Prokop 00:55:39 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:55:41 / #: I mean, not one of her characters is left uncrafted, right?
Jennifer Prokop 00:55:46 / #: Right.
Sarah MacLean 00:55:46 / #: I mean, they're all so, they're so beautifully raw. But this is really fun, this is the heroine, Jewels, is an American who is living in Paris and it is Christmas Eve and she's flying back to America tomorrow, Christmas day. Her neighbor in this apartment where she lives, is Colin, who is a grumpy Welshman who hates her, hates her, really is like, "She is loud, she's brash, she's so American, why does she look so hot all the time? I just can't with her.
00:56:25 / #: She's too much altogether," which is all well and good until they're in one of those old Parisian elevators in their apartment building and the power goes on the fritz, yes, and the lights go out and they are stuck in this elevator together. And she's-
Jennifer Prokop 00:56:46 / #: And it's Christmas Eve. Did you say that already?
Sarah MacLean 00:56:48 / #: ... Christmas Eve.
Jennifer Prokop 00:56:48 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:56:49 / #: And she's wearing her nightgown and it is... And then suddenly there is just this intense moment of, "I hate you, but also I want you. Oh boy, we're stuck in an elevator in Paris and-
Jennifer Prokop 00:57:06 / #: Whatever shall we do?
Sarah MacLean 00:57:07 / #: The book is so dirty and I love it. But also it's really about loneliness and it's really about feelings and the feelings that the holidays can evoke, and about... There's a lot of loss in this book. He's lost his sibling, she's lost a parent, and it just feels emotional and deep and important for the way that we live in the world as humans, and also incredibly sexy.
Jennifer Prokop 00:57:43 / #: Yeah, and then your antithesis-
Sarah MacLean 00:57:44 / #: And you're not going to feel bad about it. Yeah. And to me this book, also the Kati Wilde, this to me, it's like this is what Kindle Unlimited is for, right? These great, I mean I know that there's a lot of really long books in KU right now, but these 200 page bangers are what I'm in it for.
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:05 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:07 / #: And I also think there's something to be said for, I mean, it's literally like we talk about a phone booth.
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:15 / #: I guess.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:15 / #: Maybe we should just call them elevator romances-
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:17 / #: I mean, an elevator.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:17 / #: ... right, a literal elevator romance. It's fantastic, really delicious. You are not going to be sad. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:25 / #: I should just tell everybody, I did work on a draft of this book, but-
Sarah MacLean 00:58:28 / #: Oh, it's fine. You didn't pick it. I didn't even know that-
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:30 / #: I know. Yeah, that's right.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:30 / #: ... until this exact moment.
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:31 / #: So there's this moment.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:32 / #: So listen-
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:33 / #: But if you're reading the acknowledgements and you're like, "Wait, what's Jen doing?" Sarah picked it and it's fine.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:38 / #: I picked it and I didn't know that. Yeah, so listen, December is in two days. You want a cozy holiday read? This is it. Okay, and my final book, which is not my final book, but it's just the last one that we're talking about, is Zoraida Cordova's, Kiss The Girl, which I have also talked about on the podcast before, which is why I have extras guys, because I've talked about-
Jennifer Prokop 00:59:02 / #: Right.
Sarah MacLean 00:59:03 / #: ... some of these books before.
Jennifer Prokop 00:59:05 / #: And we had Zoraida up to talk about, Fairytale Retellings.
Sarah MacLean 00:59:06 / #: We did and so we talked about it then. But I often find that when we have guests on, we don't do enough talking about their book, we talk about other things, which is the point of the podcast. So this is where I get to talk about Zoraida's book for real and say, this is a retelling... First of all, out of the gate, I want to say this is a closed door romance and it's a retelling of the Little Mermaid. And if you have a tween or a teen in your life who loves Taylor Swift but maybe isn't ready for sexual content in her books or their books-
Jennifer Prokop 00:59:47 / #: Right.
Sarah MacLean 00:59:48 / #: ... this is perfect. This is it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:59:50 / #: Yeah. Yeah. This is a great starter romance you would say.
Sarah MacLean 00:59:53 / #: This main character is not Taylor Swift, but if you have... I mean right now it feels like everybody has one of these-
Jennifer Prokop 00:59:59 / #: Oh, but with the love of music. And I was-
Sarah MacLean 01:00:00 / #: Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 01:00:01 / #: ... that's the woman in a band and a strong, that artistic temperament.
Sarah MacLean 01:00:06 / #: Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 01:00:06 / #: All those things, right?
Sarah MacLean 01:00:07 / #: Yes. Yes. So I mean I just think this is the perfect gift for that kid in your life. It's not YA though, it's also the perfect gift for you, so you'll enjoy it immensely. Okay, so the premise is Ariel, the same names apply.
Jennifer Prokop 01:00:26 / #: I hope so.
Sarah MacLean 01:00:26 / #: Ariel is one of a girl band, like a sort of rock band, superstars, like absolute mega stars, think like One Direction, but sisters. And there are eight of them, seven of them.
Jennifer Prokop 01:00:39 / #: Love it.
Sarah MacLean 01:00:40 / #: There's seven of them obviously. Obviously there are seven of them, seven sirens, the siren seven. And they are having their... The book opens on their farewell concert. They are done now. They are deciding to go their separate ways and try new things with their lives because they have spent their entire, basically young adulthood being celebrities, being pop superstars. And they have never been out from under the thumb of their fairly, fairly, extremely domineering father, right, the King Triton of it all.
01:01:15 / #: So Amitcute, daddy, unfortunately he's not quite as daddy as King Triton could be if King Triton would be, but.
Jennifer Prokop 01:01:27 / #: A very different book. I understand.
Sarah MacLean 01:01:28 / #: It's different unfortunately. So Amitcute happens, and so they sneak out. They go to a club in Brooklyn. They've never done anything like this because they have been superstars forever and they meet Eric, who is the lead singer and guitarist for this up and coming band that's about to embark the following day on a tour around the country. But not like a cool tour, we are all in a van doing just sort of getting it done across the country. And for romance reasons, through a confluence of romance reasons. Ariel gets a job as the merch girl for this band and she goes undercover-
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:19 / #: Love it. I'd love it.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:20 / #: ... on this tour bus with this band for their first go around and it's great. It's a road trip romance because of course they make a deal. There's a deal that's made with Eric and his band mates that he won't sleep with the merch girl. But of course they're obsessed with each other almost instantly. They love each other, they think they're... they can't get enough of each other except... So there's that sort of constant tension of like, "But we can't, but we can't." Also, because we're on a bus with all these people.
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:53 / #: Right.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:55 / #: Not that kind of book, Jen. And it's just really great because I mean, everyone knows I love a rockstar, everyone knows I love a celebrity, and part of the reason why is because I love somebody who has to step out of the limelight to understand who they are. And that's what this book is. I think Zoraida is one of the best writers writing today in multiple genres. This book is just, it's going to hit you in all the feelings. It's the perfect read for you, for young people in your life, for like I said, if you want to introduce romance to somebody.
01:03:28 / #: It's funny and it's sexy and it's smart and it's thoughtful and it does all the things that rom-coms should be doing right now and also does it with massive amounts of feeling and a big found family, which is great.
Jennifer Prokop 01:03:42 / #: Your, the perfect thing.
Sarah MacLean 01:03:44 / #: The perfect thing. And that is Kiss the Girl by Zoraida Cordova and my final book.
Jennifer Prokop 01:03:52 / #: That's it, 10.
Sarah MacLean 01:03:52 / #: There it is.
Jennifer Prokop 01:03:53 / #: Is that 10?
Sarah MacLean 01:03:54 / #: I think they did the job. I think it's 11.
Jennifer Prokop 01:03:55 / #: I think we did the job too.
Sarah MacLean 01:03:55 / #: Oh, maybe it's not. It's 10, counting.
Jennifer Prokop 01:03:59 / #: Who knows?
Sarah MacLean 01:04:00 / #: Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 01:04:01 / #: The thing that's hard always, everybody like, oh, let's say it. We'll go ahead and say the standard disclaimers here at the end, right? These are just books we love that spoke to us for whatever reason, right? There were lots of great romances this year. There are lots of great romances we didn't talk about for various reasons. We cannot wait to hear about the books you loved and yeah, of course-
Sarah MacLean 01:04:21 / #: Please recommend them to us.
Jennifer Prokop 01:04:22 / #: Yeah, right.
Sarah MacLean 01:04:22 / #: We're always looking-
Jennifer Prokop 01:04:23 / #: The thing is that's-
Sarah MacLean 01:04:23 / #: ... always.
Jennifer Prokop 01:04:24 / #: ... sort of tricky is because we're always constantly reading back lists, some of the best books I read this year I haven't talked about because they were not published in 2023. So keep in mind that the best of is always a moving target in this genre. Mostly what we love is romance. We had a great time reading these books. We think you will have a great time reading these books. And we want to support romance in our libraries, in our local bookstores, in our little free libraries, under our Christmas trees, with our Hanukkah presents, wherever, wherever great romances can be found.
01:04:58 / #: So we hope that you read these and share them. We hope that to hear what your favorite romances are, and just remember lots of great books don't get on the list. And it's not that we don't love them, it's just that we only could choose 10.
Sarah MacLean 01:05:13 / #: That's right. I also just want to give a shout-out to some of our favorite books by our friends this year. Adriana Herrera had, An Island Princess Starts a Scandal, which is a sapphic historical set in 1890s in Paris and is a banger. Kate Clayborn had, Georgie All Along, which is just-
Jennifer Prokop 01:05:34 / #: So great.
Sarah MacLean 01:05:35 / #: ... gorgeous, a gorgeous book by Kate Clayborn. I mean when is she not written a gorgeous book, but there we are, Georgie's for every single girl out there who has ever thought to themselves, "I have to go home and who am I now that I'm back?" And Christina Lauren had, The True Love Experiments, which is a love letter to romance novels-
Jennifer Prokop 01:05:59 / #: It sure was.
Sarah MacLean 01:06:00 / #: ... as Jen will attest. Diana Quincy had, hang on.
Jennifer Prokop 01:06:07 / #: The Mark Quest Makes His Move, was that this... This one?
Sarah MacLean 01:06:09 / #: No. No. Diana Quincy had, The Duke Gets Desperate, which is a Regency Castle book. I inherited this castle. No wait, I inherited this castle book. So let's just bang it out even though we hate each other.
Jennifer Prokop 01:06:26 / #: Tracey Livingston's-
Sarah MacLean 01:06:27 / #: I don't have complaints.
Jennifer Prokop 01:06:28 / #: Yeah, Tracey Livingston's second book in the, American Royalty series came out this summer called, The Duchess Effect. I think she also released a novella, kind of like-
Sarah MacLean 01:06:39 / #: I'm going to talk about it on the Christmas episode.
Jennifer Prokop 01:06:40 / #: Oh.
Sarah MacLean 01:06:41 / #: So we're not going to say anything yet. We're going to talk about it on the Christmas... Come back for the Christmas, for the holiday episode. I'm going to talk about it then. And then Sophie Jordan has had her first book in her new series, "The Scandalous Ladies of London, called, The Countess, which is kind of a big, Real Housewives of London, kind of the beginning of a, Real Housewives of London kind of structure. And, The Duke Starts a Scandal, which is her most recent book, and has probably the sexiest cover I have seen all year. Have you seen that one where she's pushing him up against the wall? I'll take it, man.
Jennifer Prokop 01:07:19 / #: Yeah, we have read lots of great romances this year. When you look at the pocketbooks list, they have books we recom... They'll have our books. I think it's, Seven Trade Paperbacks and, One Marry Me by Midnight is a mass market paperback. Is that right? No, two mass market paperbacks. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:07:35 / #: Because it goes fan of-
Jennifer Prokop 01:07:36 / #: Joanna Chu.
Sarah MacLean 01:07:36 / #: The jiu jitsi fan.
Jennifer Prokop 01:07:38 / #: Then there'll be sort of these other ones that we've recommended or that are by our friends. And then underneath that you will see books that the bookstore loved. So you can just fill up your box with lots of great romances this year.
Sarah MacLean 01:07:52 / #: And also, I was there a month or so back and I signed all my books for them. So if you're looking for a sign book by me, you can hopefully find it there.
Jennifer Prokop 01:08:01 / #: Perfect. Well everybody, that's it. That's our best of 2023. Until next year.
Sarah MacLean 01:08:06 / #: We've done it again. We hope we filled your, to be read piles very, very high. Again, you can visit FatedMates.net/pocketbooks to order the box and any of the supplemental books with it. Let us know what you do with these boxes. We want to see pictures.
Jennifer Prokop 01:08:24 / #: Oh, yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:08:25 / #: Post them on the Discord. If you are not a member of our Discord, you can join it now at patreon. com/FatedMates where you'll get more episodes from us, video interviews with authors who we like and know, and also just this raw looking Discord-
Jennifer Prokop 01:08:43 / #: It is a rough gang.
Sarah MacLean 01:08:43 / #: ... full of people who love romance novels. So if you're looking for a place to find your people, that is the place to find your people. I'm Sarah MacLean. I am here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are Fated Mates. You can find us every Wednesday in your ear holes on the podcasting app of your choice, or at FatedMates.net, on Twitter @FatedMates, on Instagram at FatedMates pod. And don't forget that you can stay tuned to listen to the first three chapters of, Single and Ready to Jingle by Piper Rain in audiobook right now.
06.11: Rend by Roan Parrish & the Lift 4 Autism Auction
This week, we’re doing things a little differently! A while back, we donated an episode for bid in the Lift 4 Autism auction, arranged by friend of the pod, Kennedy Ryan. Listener Julie won (thanks, Julie!) and selected Roan Parrish’s Rend for a deep dive read along, which we were so happy to do! After a shocking amount of Bantr, here it is — we’re talking about POV, about sadness in romances, about the way romance represents loneliness, and more.
We’re also taking a bit of time to recommend a group of books that have autism spectrum rep on page and that we, members of our Discord, and other authors adore. Enjoy!
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
If you’re looking to buy stuff, especially this weekend during holiday-sale-extravaganza, you should probably check out Wirecutter.
You should subscribe to the Bookbub daily email, choose what kinds of books you want and watch your wallet!
Order the best of the year box from Pocket Books Shop in Lancaster, PA. The Best of 2023 list comes out next week!
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Sheila Masterson, author of The Lost God,
available at Amazon or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Carrie Clark, author of A Capacity for Falling in Love,
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Stephanie Rose, author of Raising the Bar,
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
S06.10: Men in Fur: Aliens, Warlords, and Vikings
We’re feeling silly and spicy this week, so we’re delivering the silly, spicy niche content you’ve come to expect from us now and then — we’re talking Men in Fur! This one is for alien lovers, medieval warlord stans, and everyone who’s ever messaged us to ask for a Viking interstitial. We’re talking about fur in all it’s function—luxury, warmth, competence, historical necessity—and getting to the bottom of why we like it so much. It’s not the mojo dojo casa house vibe, but it sure is something. Headphones in because fur, and proceed with caution…these Viking books are a lot. You’ve been warned.
Our next read along, and last of the year, will be Roan Parrish’s Rend. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books and Kobo.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
A Men in Fur Mood Board
Show Notes
- You can preorder our Best of 2023 box from Pocket Books Shoppe...list and episode drop in 2 weeks!
- The Nora Roberts book where the hero smokes is Born in Ice.
- Our Deep Dive on Milla Vane's A Heart of Blood and Ashes.
- Season 1 of Game of Thrones aired in 2011, and Jason Momoa’s character Khal Drago did not wear fur as far as we can tell, but you still deserve nice things.
- Carding wool is strangely calming if you ever have a chance, and all about alpaca fibers.
- If You're ever in York, check out the Jorvik Viking Center. Volcanoes are erupting all the time, no need to worry! If you’re in the mood for some non-romance Viking content, read the short story Everything Ravaged, Everything Burned by Wells Tower.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Avery Maxwell, author of Falling Into Forever,
available at Amazon or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Dr. Melissa Dymond, author of Holiday Star,
available at Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Avon Books, publishers of Tessa Bailey’s Wreck the Halls,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books,
and at your local independent bookseller.
S06.09: Sports Romance with Jessica Luther
It’s another sports interstitial! We’re talking sports, balls & sports balls with the brilliant Jessica Luther, sports romance lover, podcaster, and author of Unsportsmanlike Conduct: College Football and the Politics of Rape and Loving Sports When They Don't Love You Back: Dilemmas of the Modern Fan. Everyone came to this one with their own strategy, so we’re talking everything from beach volleyball to hockey, surfing to F1. Of course, we talk about Beckham, but surprisingly, we don’t even say Jurgen Klopp one time.
Our next read along, and last of the year, will be Roan Parrish’s Rend. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books and Kobo.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Welcome Jessica Luther. You can read her books, Unsportsmanlike Conduct: College Football and the Politics of Rape and Loving Sports When They Don't Love You Back: Dilemmas of the Modern Fan, or listen to her (on hiatus) sports podcast Burn it All Down. Her dissertation is about Retha Swindell and the first integrated women’s basketball team at UT, and she recently wrote about the 50th anniversary of "The Battle of the Sexes."
WNBA stuff we talked about: Teresa Weatherspoon is the new head coach for the Chicago Sky, Allie Quigley and Courtney VanderSloot, Dawn Staley supporting her players, and the WNBA pandemic bubble, and that dumb man who thinks a high school boys basketball team could beat a WNBA team, which by the way dumb men have been saying this about the WNBA for a long time.
Football stuff we talked about: Taylor Swift has caused a spike of interest in the NFL, the SNL skit with the football players, women on TikTok getting their husbands to say that Taylor Swift is putting Travis Kelce on the map, the real life football cupcake shop in Austin, and why it’s a dumb idea to use betting apps on your phone.
MNBA stuff we talked about: That tall man who plays for the Spurs is Victor Wembanyama and he’s 7’4” and it’s honestly quite startling! Bobby Knight was a terrible man. Jen’s too cheap to pay $300 a seat for a Bulls game.
Hockey Stuff we talked about: the openly homophobic NHL banned pride tape this year, and even though they rescinded the ban, it’s still pretty awful for queer players and fans, the Blackhawks abuse scandal.
Racing stuff we talked about: The Racy Books Podcast, F1 racing, Lewis Hamilton, Drive to Survive on Netflix, and NASCAR in Chicago. An important addition: a reader contacted us and let us know about Robbie Wickens, a race car driver who suffered a spinal cord injury in an Indy Car race and has returned to racing.
Soccer stuff we talked about: Ted Lasso and the Beckham documentary on Netflix.
Books Mentioned this Episode
Sponsors
Elle Kennedy, author of The Graham Effect,
available at Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books,
and at your local independent bookstore
and
Isabel Morin, author of The Whole Truth,
available at Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books,
and at your local independent bookstore
and
Avon Books, publishers of A Holly Jolly Ever After,
available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books,
and at your local independent bookstore
S06.08: Flowers from the Storm by Laura Kinsale: Romance Math
Today, we’re reading an absolute romance classic — one of those books everyone tells you is a must read, and one that neither of us had read before the podcast! We’re taking a few minutes at the top to admit our mutual folly, though, because Flowers from the Storm is stunning, and we now feel grown up enough to appreciate it.
We talk about Quakers, about dogs and kittens and apes, about men with pirate smiles and vengeance in their heart, about thees and thous, about capitalism and happily ever after and about how internal conflict can sometimes be the most difficult hurdle to overcome. Also, we find an undeniable reason to learn trigonometry.
Our next read along, and last of the year, will be Roan Parrish’s Rend. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books and Kobo.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
All about the Quakers, including some thoughts about pronoun usage.
You definitely did not want to be in an Insane asylum in the 1800s...or in 2023. Just ask Britney Spears.
People we think have read this: Ruby Dixon, Lisa Kleypas, Kresley Cole, Elizabeth Hoyt, Kerrigan Byrne.
People we know have read this: Kate Clayborn (this is her favorite book) and Kennedy Ryan (this is one of her favorite books)
The narrator of this audiobook is Nicholas Boulton, and Jen highly recommends it. Let Boulton do all the decoding for you. Here is a short YouTube clip of him talking with Kinsale about reading steam scenes.
Sponsors
Alyxandra Harvey, author of The Countess Caper,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
EF Dodd, author of Almost Perfect,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Lumi Labs, creators of Microdose Gummies
use the code FATEDMATES for 30% off and free shipping
at microdose.com
S06.07: Happy Halloween: Devils in Romance Novels
Jen’s been asking for this for six literal years, and we’re finally doing it! It’s Halloween and we’re talking Devils! Sure, we’ll touch on demons, but aren’t the scariest Devils the granite-jawed feelingless scoundrels who are definitely never going to fall in love? We’re talking Wicked Cynsters in Winter, Scoundrels of Downtown, Deals in Bed with Hades. You’re going to love it. All trick, no treat.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
The Las Vegas Aces won the WNBA championship for the second year in a row, and twitter was actually fun for a few days.
Jen ranted about this dumb Washington Post article about Lee and Andrew Child.
We have some documentaries to recommend: Sarah liked Beckham on Netflix and Jen liked The Supermodels on Apple Plus. Linda Evangalista’s “We don’t get out of bed for less than $10,000 a day” has aged better than Kate Moss’s, “Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.” Either way, GenX has some body issues.
Devils are just morality chain when you think about it.
There actually is a place in VA called the Devil’s Bathtub! I wonder if there are any camps nearby.
Here’s a handy explainer on the difference between homophones, homographs, and homonyms from the good people at Merriam-Webster. Looks like Cynster and Sinister would be homophones.
Speaking of Cynsters, listen to our deep dive of Devil's Bride.
Here’s the video about the audiobook of Unhinged.
Are you in Florida? Sarah will be at the Off the Page Book Festival in Sarasota in November.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Monique Fisher, author of Hot for Teacher,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Alyxandra Harvey, author of The Countess Caper,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Megan Montgomery, author of Undertaking Love
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S06.06: Trailblazer Nalini Singh
Our Trailblazer conversations continue this week with legend Nalini Singh, whose groundbreaking paranormal series changed the game. We talk about the early days of her writing (when she was a kid!) about building her career in New Zealand, about how she came to publish in the US, about her beautiful relationships with readers, about the way she thinks about her series and how the stories hang together, and about her moves into contemporary and beyond.
We are so grateful to Nalini Singh for making time for us, and for her amazing books.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
Welcome Nalini Singh, author of dozens of romance novels, including several popular paranormal series. You should subscribe to her newsletter on her site! We did a deep dive of Caressed by Ice in Season 4.
Preorder her new thriller, There Should Have Been Eight, coming November 21st, right now.
Authors & Books: The Time is Short by Nerina Hilliard, Christine Feehan, Sherrilyn Kenyon, Jayne Ann Krentz, Yvonne Lindsay/EV Lind, Karina Bliss, Louisa George, Helen Bianchin, Emma Darcy, JD Robb, Meljean Brook.
Publishing Professionals: Berkley editor Cindy Hwang, bookseller Barbara Clendon owner of Barbara’s Books.
A transcript (by a human being!) is available for this episode.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Andrea Jenelle, author of No Doubts, available at
Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
Lumi Labs, creators of Microdose Gummies
Visit microdose.com and use the code FATEDMATES
for 30% off and free shipping on your order
Transcript
Nalini Singh 00:00:00 / #: Back then think back to whatever the opportunities were in, say, the US North America for publishing. This is, we have to say this is pre-Indie publishing, pre-eBooks even. Whatever the options were, you have to narrow that down again and again and again by the time you get to New Zealand because very few publishers were taking submissions from outside either the US or the UK. And even books had to be set in America quite often. Or if you're going for the UK publishers that had to be set in London. And I hadn't traveled anywhere at that point. I was a high school kid. And one of the only publishers that was accepting worldwide submissions and were publishing books at Worldwide was Harlequin, Mills & Boon. And then later Silhouette became part of that too. So for me, thinking of how am I actually going to get published, it made a lot of sense to start with the contemporary side of things and start by submitting to Harlequin or Silhouette.
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:15 / #: That was the voice of Nalini Singh, one of the first women of color to write extensively in the paranormal romance space, which is something she's going to talk about with us. Author of both the first and second seasons of the Psy-Changeling series.
Sarah MacLean 00:01:33 / #: I love that. I love the way she thinks about that.
Jennifer Prokop 00:01:36 / #: Along with the Guild Hunter series, the Rock Addiction series and category romances. We're going to talk to Nalini about her journey through romance, the way she perceives herself, the role of New Zealand romance authors, and what it's like to send your first manuscript off when you're a teenager.
Sarah MacLean 00:01:59 / #: The best. This is Fate of Mates everyone. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
Jennifer Prokop 00:02:06 / #: I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And without further ado, here's our conversation with Nalini Singh. Welcome, Nalini Singh. We are so excited to have you on Fate of Mates as a trailblazer.
Nalini Singh 00:02:21 / #: I'm so excited to be here. I love the conversations you both have had. Oh, well I obviously, I cannot speak English, on the previous episodes. I really enjoyed. So yeah, it's really fun to be here.
Sarah MacLean 00:02:38 / #: Well, we're so thrilled to have you. We're so thrilled always to have somebody who can talk to us extensively about a subgenre. We immediately, the second we started the Trailblazers, your name went onto the list. So we're so excited to finally be able to do this. Why don't we start with where we start with everyone, which is, how did you come to romance? Why romance?
Nalini Singh 00:03:08 / #: I'm one of those people who has been a lifelong reader from childhood. So I was born in Fiji, which is a very small dot of an island in the Pacific. I think the last time I looked, the entire population is something like 800,000 people across. And it's not one island. We say it's actually islands, lots of islands dotted about. But I remember then, there used to be one big library in Suva City, but then the little mobile book buses would come to school. And that was my favorite.
00:03:43 / #: And I always used to get on and be like, okay, I can't wait until I'm old enough, until they let me go into the grownup section of the book bus because I had to be in the kids and young adult section. And when we moved to New Zealand, there were all these libraries and each of the suburbs has a library, and then there's the big Central City library. And I was just like, this is heaven. So I think my love of writing definitely came from my love of reading. And in terms of how I found myself in romance particularly, I think I started reading romance quite early at the Mills & Boons.
Sarah MacLean 00:04:26 / #: Same.
Jennifer Prokop 00:04:27 / #: Us too.
Sarah MacLean 00:04:29 / #: So do you remember who those authors were, the books that really brought you to the genre?
Nalini Singh 00:04:35 / #: Yeah, yeah. I went to see my aunt at one point, and she was a huge Mills & Boon reader, and she gave me this whole bag of books that I literally brought back on the plane. And I had people like Betty Neal's and is it Anne Mather?
Jennifer Prokop 00:04:54 / #: Ann Mather, sure.
Nalini Singh 00:04:54 / #: Emma Darcy, Miranda Lee, Robin Donnells-
Sarah MacLean 00:05:00 / #: The classics.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:01 / #: Yeah.
Nalini Singh 00:05:02 / #: Yeah. The classics. I grew up on those and there was this one book that really made an impact. And I think she only ever wrote six romances, Nerina Hilliard.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:12 / #: Oh, I know that name.
Nalini Singh 00:05:15 / #: Yeah, the Time Is Short. That's the title. And I was obsessed with this book, and it's one of the old school Mills & Boons that were quite thick, quite big books. They weren't the shorter categories now. And it's classic, classic romance. She's dying of this brain tumor. And then she goes to this island and she's falling in love with this guy who's this billionaire kind of thing. I need to reread that because I've still got the copy still. Still got my old copy.
Jennifer Prokop 00:05:44 / #: I have also bought the first romances I ever read from the bag in my grandma's basement. And listen, they're still bangers. They're still so good.
Nalini Singh 00:05:53 / #: They're so good.
Sarah MacLean 00:05:54 / #: So she miraculously survives the tumor?
Nalini Singh 00:05:57 / #: I think there's an emergency surgery at one point, and I think the surgeon had a traumatic pass, so it was also his... Because it's a bigger book, so you could have some flux and all of that. But yeah, I just fell in love with those books. And I think it was the emotions that looking back, when I was younger, I obviously didn't analyze them in that way. I was just reading for the joy of it. But I think that the emotional impact of those books really, really struck me hard. And that was my gateway into romance. But then I was also reading a lot of science fiction and fantasy, and a lot of those books actually have a thread of romance. And I was realizing that I wanted more romance in my science fiction and fantasy and more world building fantasy stuff in my romance. So that's how I got into Paranormal Romance. I just squashed together everything I loved. And I remember finding the first paranormal romance as I read, and I was like, "Wow, it's a thing. It's a thing."
Jennifer Prokop 00:07:11 / #: So what was that for you? Because I feel like we talk a lot about 2005 and 2006, there's this huge explosion, but there definitely were vampires before, right?
Nalini Singh 00:07:23 / #: Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:07:24 / #: So what were the things that you were reading before you started writing Psy-Changelings?
Nalini Singh 00:07:30 / #: Oh, they were actually published before then. So I think some of the authors I was reading was like Christine Feehan, her Dark series was probably one of the first and Sherrilyn Kenyon, those are the two big names that were ahead of the curve. But even more ahead of the curve was Jane Ann Krentz, who under Jane Castle. And even under her Krentz name, I think she wrote-
Sarah MacLean 00:08:01 / #: Sweet Starfire.
Nalini Singh 00:08:03 / #: Yes, Sweet Starfire, Crystal Flame, all of those books. I am an obsessed fan-girl of her just so you know.
Sarah MacLean 00:08:10 / #: So are we.
Jennifer Prokop 00:08:10 / #: We had her on-
Sarah MacLean 00:08:14 / #: If you haven't listened to the Jane Ann Krentz episode of Fated Mates go immediately to do that. It will change your entire life.
Nalini Singh 00:08:21 / #: Oh my gosh.
Jennifer Prokop 00:08:21 / #: It's so good. Yeah, I think about it all the time.
Nalini Singh 00:08:26 / #: She's such a good speaker. I haven't got to that episode yet, so now, I'm just going to fast-forward through everything and get to it. But yeah, she was doing stuff I think, before almost anyone else. And I have spoken to her and I have listened to her speak and she's like, "Oh yeah, I almost killed my career doing that because nobody was ready for it."
Jennifer Prokop 00:08:48 / #: Well, and that's it too. It's like if you're before the wave, it's easy to just go under as opposed to writing it into claim and a fame.
Sarah MacLean 00:08:58 / #: So can we talk about that wave? Because it feels like it was a huge crashing wave in the early aughts. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how it felt at the time. Was it clear that it was just paranormal was everywhere or coming everywhere?
Nalini Singh 00:09:20 / #: Yeah. There was definitely a lot of authors coming up with paranormal. The funny thing is most people don't realize, but I came in on the end and I remember my editor, so my editor, Cindy Hwang, who I've had for well, 18 years now, I think, something like that. She said they were actually not buying any more paranormals when my book ended up on her desk.
Sarah MacLean 00:09:50 / #: Oh, interesting.
Nalini Singh 00:09:52 / #: Yeah. But she loved Life Dissensations so much she actually went to the publisher and said, "I know we're not buying paranormals, but I think we should buy this one." So I came in when they said paranormal was actually on the down trend.
Sarah MacLean 00:10:08 / #: Interesting.
Nalini Singh 00:10:08 / #: And I think I do believe the reports of its demise were too soon. Too early.
Jennifer Prokop 00:10:14 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:10:16 / #: Yeah. It didn't feel like it ended that already.
Nalini Singh 00:10:17 / #: It didn't. But yeah, so that was an interesting time because there are a lot of big paranormal names already. The big series were already out there. And then, so I came along and yeah, so it was really good. I found an editor that got me and here we are. But it really was, I think, the heyday of paranormal as a subgenre, because I remember you both probably do as well, on Smart Bitches, Trashy books. They did the Save the Contemporary campaign.
Jennifer Prokop 00:10:52 / #: Save the Contemporary.
Nalini Singh 00:10:53 / #: Yeah. Because-
Jennifer Prokop 00:10:54 / #: Doesn't that seem wild now?
Nalini Singh 00:10:57 / #: I know. And now, contemporary is everywhere, but back then, it was historical and paranormal were really ascendant and you didn't really have very many contemporaries taking the spotlight. And I think it's flipped now. Contemporaries are just rolling the roast and the other subgenres are at the back of it a bit. But I think if you've been around long enough in the industry, you see the cycles. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:11:24 / #: Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:11:26 / #: There are huge boom and bust cycles. I feel like whatever romance gods there are also ruled like the stock market and the Rockefeller's Bank account, like boom and bust. That's all we know.
Sarah MacLean 00:11:39 / #: Well wait-
Jennifer Prokop 00:11:40 / #: No nothing in the middle.
Sarah MacLean 00:11:41 / #: Before we go much further, I want to name though, that your first book was not Slave to Sensation.
Nalini Singh 00:11:47 / #: No, no.
Sarah MacLean 00:11:48 / #: So could you take us back a little bit and talk to us about the very beginning? Why did you start writing? What were you writing? How did you become a published author?
Nalini Singh 00:12:02 / #: Okay. So like I said, obsessed with romances, obsessed with writing. And I decided quite early that I wanted to write a novel. And funnily enough, one of the first things I wrote was looking back as a science fiction romance. It's like [inaudible 00:12:20 / #]. It's like about a prince with lasers coming out of his eyes and he can't fall in love because there's lasers killing everybody.
Jennifer Prokop 00:12:28 / #: Perfect.
Nalini Singh 00:12:29 / #: I was quite young, okay?
Jennifer Prokop 00:12:30 / #: No, this is perfect.
Nalini Singh 00:12:34 / #: But part of it was the reason... So I started in category romance, and one of the reasons I started, well, there's multiple reasons. One is that I think for world building, I needed to learn all the stuff and I didn't feel... I was still doing it, but I just never had that sweet spot where I felt like I created something different and unique and that everything felt shallow at that stage that I was building. But I had the romance down. I felt like I had the romance down at least. And back then, think back to whatever the opportunities were in, say the US, North America for publishing, we have to say this is pre indie publishing, pre eBooks even.
00:13:27 / #: Whatever the options were, you have to narrow that down again and again and again by the time you get to New Zealand because very few publishers were taking submissions from outside, either the US or the UK, and even books had to be set in America quite often. Or if you're going for the UK publishers, they had to be set in London. And I hadn't traveled anywhere at that point. I was a high school kid and one of the only publishers that was accepting worldwide submissions and where publishing books at worldwide was Harlequin, Mills & Boon. And then later, Silhouette became part of that too.
00:14:14 / #: So for me, thinking of how am I actually going to get published, it made a lot of sense to start with the contemporary side of things and things start by submitting to Harlequin or Silhouette. And I did my first submission in high school, okay?
Sarah MacLean 00:14:34 / #: Amazing.
Nalini Singh 00:14:35 / #: I was so proud. It was a terrible book, but I'm so proud. I wrote a whole book and it was called-
Sarah MacLean 00:14:41 / #: Yeah, that's amazing.
Nalini Singh 00:14:44 / #: The heroine had a broken leg and the title was, and A Broken Heart too. I still have that book, you guys. I made my best friend at high school read it and she was like, "I guess it's good." She wasn't a romance reader at all.
Sarah MacLean 00:15:08 / #: Wait, so what happened? Now I need to know. So you submitted?
Nalini Singh 00:15:13 / #: Oh my God, I should have pulled out.
Sarah MacLean 00:15:14 / #: Did you get a letter back? Did you get letters back?
Nalini Singh 00:15:18 / #: I got not a letter. It's like a, what you call it? Compliment slip.
Sarah MacLean 00:15:23 / #: Yeah, like a little slip.
Nalini Singh 00:15:23 / #: Basically said, no, we don't want it.
Jennifer Prokop 00:15:23 / #: We received mail from you. That's all we're willing to say.
Sarah MacLean 00:15:30 / #: No of those slips are legendary. Yeah.
Nalini Singh 00:15:33 / #: I know. I still have it.
Sarah MacLean 00:15:36 / #: Oh my gosh. But Baby Nalini did a thing. That's amazing.
Jennifer Prokop 00:15:40 / #: Yeah.
Nalini Singh 00:15:40 / #: I did. And I'm so proud because I knew nobody in the industry. I knew less than nobody. I actually called up the distributor for Mills & Boon in New Zealand and said, "Oh, how can I submit to them?" And they were so nice because Harlequin has those, I don't know if they still do, they had these forms that they had the information on how you could submit. And the distributors like, "Oh, we've got one of these, shall I send it to you?" This is New Zealand guys. They're so nice.
Sarah MacLean 00:16:09 / #: Amazing.
Jennifer Prokop 00:16:09 / #: That's amazing.
Sarah MacLean 00:16:13 / #: You know, Nalini, somebody else we talked to had this story.
Jennifer Prokop 00:16:16 / #: It was Mary Balogh. She sent it to the warehouse and somebody read it and passed it on.
Sarah MacLean 00:16:21 / #: Forwarded it on. Yeah.
Nalini Singh 00:16:23 / #: Yeah. You have to be a self-starter in this industry. And I think back then, that was how you did it. You had to get in front of somebody, and if you didn't know anything, you just rang around and until you found some information.
Sarah MacLean 00:16:38 / #: So at this point, because now there's a very robust community in New Zealand, a romance writing community in New Zealand. But at the time, at least you didn't know about it.
Nalini Singh 00:16:48 / #: I didn't know it. So I'd actually submitted, I would say probably three or four manuscripts, or maybe three. By the time I saw this little article in the local newspaper about the Romance Writers of New Zealand conference. And I think at that time, maybe it was maybe the third or fourth conference, so, I hadn't been around super long, and I was like, "Wow." It's the first time I heard of other people in New Zealand trying to do this, and I knew that Robin Donald and Susan Napier and Daphne Claire wrote for Harlequin. So I knew there were authors in New Zealand who did it, but the idea of actually meeting any of them was just completely... They were celebrities and how was I going to meet them, this kid from the suburbs kind of thing.
00:17:41 / #: And so my mom actually paid for me to go to the conference as my birthday present. So she's always been so supportive. She had to sit there. I was sitting in the kitchen reading the prints with the lasers coming out to her. She's like, "Oh yeah, that's really good." And she's cooking dinner.
Sarah MacLean 00:18:00 / #: Oh, I love that.
Nalini Singh 00:18:04 / #: Yeah. So that was the time I actually met a group of writers, basically any writers. Before then, my only access to writers was probably literary fiction writers that came to school to give talks and stuff. And I still remember walking into that room and it was a very small conference back then, I would say probably less than 50 people. And so it was, we were all in one room and just chatting. And they had speakers and they had actual editors from Mills & Boon because they had offices down here, and they would come and wow, it blew my mind. I learned a lot from RWNZ and it's a really nice community of people and it's very small. It's not associated with any other bigger group, so RWNZ is its own entity. And it's always kept, I think it's heart very well.
00:19:05 / #: And I think when you have a smaller group, it tends to be like that. You tend to stick together more because I think even now, the entire membership is something like 300 people. So it's tiny, just super supportive and so much knowledge. And that's where I learned to actually do proper submissions and stuff. So all this time, I'd just been sending them manuscripts, single-spaced because it cost less money to [inaudible 00:19:32 / #].
00:19:34 / #: Yeah. So that's when I really started to do some crafts, so now, I've learned some crafts. But a lot of my learning, I would say, came from just obsessively writing because I just did it over and over and over again. And then I started submitting and then I actually got picked up out of the slush pile in New York, and I didn't sell the first I think, book that got picked up by the slush pile, but the editor said, "Send it to me directly next time." So I did the next book. And I wasn't even writing three chapters in a synopsis. I was writing four books because at this point, it's book 10. And she asked for revisions and I did the revisions and yeah, that was the book that sold.
Sarah MacLean 00:20:23 / #: Who was that? Do you remember?
Nalini Singh 00:20:26 / #: Yeah, Diane Deitz at Silhouette. She's not an editor anymore. She was my editor for I think, two or three books. But I'll always remember her because she was the one who bought my very, very first book. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:20:41 / #: And so how old were you when that happened?
Nalini Singh 00:20:48 / #: I got the call for the sale the day before my 25th birthday.
Jennifer Prokop 00:20:54 / #: Wow, that's amazing.
Sarah MacLean 00:20:56 / #: And you'd written 10 books already.
Nalini Singh 00:20:58 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:20:58 / #: Oh my gosh, what a hustle.
Nalini Singh 00:21:03 / #: I just wanted to do it, the passion of it. That's what I wanted to do. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:10 / #: This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Andrea Janell, the author of No Doubts, the fifth book in the Willow Creek series. So as we know, Willow Creek is a nice little small town and Alaric, who is a driven astrophysicist, who has twin daughters who need a chance to reconnect with their aunt, also needs a little bit of time to finish his book, which-
Jennifer Prokop 00:21:38 / #: He probably needs a quiet small town.
Sarah MacLean 00:21:40 / #: Listen, very relatable. What he does not have time for is shenanigans, certainly not age gap, grumpy sunshine shenanigans with Farrah, the adorable niece of the owner of this bed and breakfast that he's in. Farrah's whole life has been turned upside down, very topsy-turvy since the pandemic. And she is back in Willow Creek to just have a moment of peace. But as we know, there is no peace in the age gap, grumpy, sunshine, romance.
Jennifer Prokop 00:22:18 / #: No, he can't deal with her sunshine, that's Sarah. He's so grumpy.
Sarah MacLean 00:22:21 / #: He cannot deal with the sunshine she is providing turn down service of all kinds, I think. And listen, if you love a bed and breakfast, a grumpy astrophysicist hero and a heroine who just wants to give him a little love, this is for you.
Jennifer Prokop 00:22:40 / #: Well, and we've also had readers who are interested in single parents and widowers. So this really hits a lot of the things that sometimes people like in a hero. So you can get No Doubts in print or ebook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. Thank you to Andrea Janell for sponsoring this week's episode.
00:23:01 / #: So when you then really transition from category to paranormal, did you have a sense that you were really, I don't know, it just became such a massive success, the whole Psy-Changeling series? Or did you really feel like it was, like you said earlier you were too late for it. When did you realize that maybe they weren't quite right about paranormal being over?
Nalini Singh 00:23:30 / #: I think when I started to actually, when I became full-time as a writer, because that took several years as well. And also, because I'm super-conservative, even though I quit my day job after selling my first book, people don't do this. I was young and I was like, "You know what? If I'm probably going to quit my day job at any point, it might as well be now, during my eating noodles every night if I have to." I kept doing part-time work for a long time because I really was like, I need to be in a position where I can support myself. Because writing income is very erratic. It's not like a job where you get paid weekly or bi-weekly.
00:24:19 / #: Yeah, I think when I actually went full time, I was like, okay, yeah, this is happening. These books have got legs and yeah. Maybe. Yeah. And I think also, I think it was probably around the same time that the first book actually, so the first book to hit the big bestseller list was I think the fourth book in the Psy-Changeling series. So Mine to Possess hit the extended New York Times bestseller list. And yeah, it really felt like, okay, because prior to that, I was very aware that series don't always get room to spread, that readers don't get interested in them, or for whatever reason, it doesn't strike a chord. And then that's it. Back then, there was no way to finish them. You stopped and you started writing something else. And so it felt like, wow, this is actually picking up readers as it goes along, which is a really nice feeling when you're starting something completely new. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:25:38 / #: So you started the Archangel series. So at some point, you had two paranormal series going. You're a very prolific writer, you produce. So was that something you just had a urge to write, another series in another world? Or were you trying to branch out? What was your thinking about starting a second new series when we already know that series can be a little dicey.
Nalini Singh 00:26:09 / #: Yeah. So you know how I said I wrote obsessively all through school and stuff? So I wrote through uni and I went to law school as well. So I wrote through that. I wrote through being a junior lawyer. So by the time I got to be a full-time writer, I was like, "I have so much time. I have so much time." Because I was so used to writing in really concentrated chunks. I would have 45 minutes maybe, if I was lucky in a day, and I would just write. And so once I got over the, I don't know, if you find this, Sarah, but when I went full time at first I was like, I have so much time. It takes a while to sit.
Jennifer Prokop 00:26:49 / #: Yeah, yeah. You waste so much time. I think when you-
Nalini Singh 00:26:52 / #: So much time. Because you don't realize. Yeah. But once I settled down, I realized my writing pace and the way I wrote was such that I had a lot of room to do something else. And I said to my agent, I've already got this one series and it's quite a complex series, and I knew what I wanted to do with it. And I knew the complexity was going to grow. And I thought, I'm going to write some standalones in between, so I'll write standalone stuff, which will be easier on my brain and it'll refresh me between the Psy-Changeling books. And what I did not realize is, I write series-
Jennifer Prokop 00:27:40 / #: Yes.
Sarah MacLean 00:27:41 / #: Is that you can't stop world building.
Nalini Singh 00:27:43 / #: Yeah. So especially in paranormal or urban fantasy spaces, I wrote Angel's Blood and I kept telling myself it was a standalone. And so now, a lot of people look back and say, "Oh, you put the seven in place and they were all going to have books." No, they weren't. They were just going to exist in this one book was, that was the plan.
Sarah MacLean 00:28:06 / #: That's against the rules of romance.
Nalini Singh 00:28:07 / #: It's quite funny. Everybody was like, "You know you're writing a series?" I'm like, "No, it's one book." But, it was an accidental series, that one. It was just by the time I got to the end, I was like, okay, well, I can't stop now. The world was too big and there was too much I wanted to do with it.
Sarah MacLean 00:28:30 / #: Did you have a group of, because I'm fascinated by writing on the other side of the world right, right now, we're however many hours apart, you're in tomorrow as we talk. Did you have a community of other writers in New Zealand who you were connecting with or were you connecting with the other paranormal authors around the world? What was your community like during all of this?
Nalini Singh 00:28:59 / #: So at first, I had my local group, they're amazing. And you have to remember, the online spaces just didn't really exist the way they do now. So I think there were a few message boards and stuff, but I just wasn't on them. I just wasn't aware of them. I think at that time, you were really online if you were a bit more techy, if you had the knowledge to get into those spaces. So I was very local and I had such an amazing group of people here. I am still friends with them to this day. We still get together regularly.
00:29:38 / #: My friend, Yvonne Lindsay, she wrote tons of books for Desire and she's writing thrillers now under EV Lind. She was one of my first friends. And then Karina Bliss, she wrote the Rock Star books. Louisa George, Tessa Radly, there's so many names. My friend Shah, who is more into marketing side of things. My friend Pera, these are people who have been in my life for 20 years and counting. And it was just such a nice group of people and we supported each other and on the next level up, so these were people I grew with. We all started on the ground floor, we're submitting, we're writing stuff, we're trying things out, we're sharing information.
00:30:25 / #: But on the next level up, we had people like Robin Donald, Daphne Claire, who were really, really generous with their time and just really helped support younger writers coming up. They used to run a romance writing course up north, and they actually invited me up there at one point and they were just so encouraging and telling me, "Yeah, you can do this. This is what maybe you need to do with your work to take it to the next level." So they were brilliant. And then we had the writers from Australia who came over and the conference and stuff like Helen Bianchin and Emma Darcy, just so much knowledge in those heads.
00:31:18 / #: And on the other side of things, there's a bookseller here, Barbara Clendon, she used to run Barbara's books and she's retired from that now. But she was just a wealth of information because she was a small Indie bookseller and she used to bring in books from the US like books we would get nowhere else in the major bookstores because you know the major bookstores just had general spread of books. She was the one who had Christine Feehan and then Sherrilyn Kenyon and JD Robb. And she literally put JD Robb in my hand and said, "You're going to like this book."
00:32:00 / #: I have now read every single J.D Robb ever created. So she was right, but she's still a friend of mine. And just the information that she would share with us, because she kept us up to date with what was actually happening in the industry. She used to actually give little talks and say, "This is what's selling, and this is the new books coming out." And see, I had a really, really lovely community here, and I think I really started to build connections overseas after I attended my very first conference in the US, which was I think in 2006. Yeah, 2006. I was meeting people face to face. And prior to that, oh, I know the Harlequin boards, there were the Harlequin boards. That's where I met people before the conference.
Sarah MacLean 00:32:57 / #: These boards, I was never on those boards, but they were legend. People talk about those boards. They were incredible.
Nalini Singh 00:33:06 / #: I think they were one of the biggest spaces for romance readers and writers to interact. And I made a lot of friends on there that I met for the first time at that conference. And then from there, I felt like I was online a bit more. And so I started to make connections with people in my subgenre because there wasn't really anybody writing that here. So to make those connections, I had to go online and it helped that to Berkeley, my publisher, published a lot of people who wrote Paranormal, and so I was making friends. I got along really well with Meljean Brooke.
00:33:49 / #: And then, yeah, the names are just going [inaudible 00:33:56 / #] on my head, like I said, but there were so many people and we used to get together and do promotion things together and all organized online. So the community has grown now, I think considerably because I've been around a long time and I've met a lot of people, but also, I've met people just online. There's people I've never met in real life, but because we've been friends for so long online, it feels like it's a friendship just as deep. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:34:30 / #: This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Lumi Labs, creators of microdose gummies.
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Jennifer Prokop 00:35:41 / #: Bronchitis forever.
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00:36:16 / #: So you mentioned readers earlier, so can you talk to us a little bit about your reader community? Is there a moment you can share about the personal or emotional impact that your books have had on readers?
Nalini Singh 00:36:33 / #: Yeah. I remember getting my very first email. That was pretty amazing. It was a fan mail, and it was from Nigeria. The first person ever to write to me was from Nigeria. So apparently, it was a huge romance reading community over there, and I actually got letters from there as well. But yeah, one thing that happened after Slave to Sensation, which I guess I wasn't ready for because I hadn't realized what I'd done, so this sounds weird, but I started getting letters saying, "Oh my God, it's so nice to see a person of color as the heroine." And okay, I am a person of color. And I had never realized that all these paranormals I'd read had no people of color as the heroine, the main protagonist. And so I was like, whoa. And then I went back and I looked through all these books and I was like, wow. Yeah.
00:37:42 / #: And so I felt like I did something there that I was giving something to these readers that hadn't existed before. And so that was one thing that happened that really struck me, and it struck with me to this day getting those messages because they just started coming organically. And then I've heard some really heartbreaking letters from readers over the years who've read something at a time when they just needed to read and escape. And that's why I say when someone says romance is escapism, and I say, "What's wrong with that?" Sometimes you need to escape in a really bad situation. And I've cried, some of these letters are so heart-breaking. Actually ended up becoming friends with a lady who wrote to me and said she was going through chemo, and she really wanted to know the end of this particular thing. And she wasn't sure it was going to be out by the time because she was in a bad situation.
00:38:56 / #: And so I actually told her what the... I'm going to cry, but she did beat it. And then we stayed in touch for a long time, and then one day, she didn't reply anymore. And I still think about that, and I think that in the end that she did pass away. But it's these moments that you build connections with people that maybe you will never meet and having an impact on their life, whether big or small.
00:39:33 / #: There's one letter I remember where someone wrote to me, and they just had a bad day. They just had a bad day. Someone yelled at them at work, they got splashed by the bus while they're walking home. They were completely wet. And they came home and there was bills on the floor in the litter box, and they were just crying. And then they saw their book had come, and then they just decided, you know what? They dried off. They opened the book, they made a cup of tea, and they read. And they just found a little piece of happiness. And I think that's just as important. Just those moments we give readers. So I never take it for granted. I think it's such a beautiful connection we can make. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 00:40:18 / #: Well, and you do such powerful reader service. You're so connected to readers. I'm a subscriber to your newsletter. I see how much work you put into your newsletters. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about all of that craft that you do, the writing that you do that is for readers without any... They don't have to buy it, you just provide it to them. And I think that's really special and very unique. I don't think there are that many writers who do that kind of work for readers.
Jennifer Prokop 00:40:57 / #: And for people who don't know, you have so many short stories, for example, in the Psy-Changeling world, there's all these on ramps that are, it's not just the novels. There's so much extra stuff, and it really is delightful as a reader to feel that there's just more out there.
Sarah MacLean 00:41:15 / #: Well, and it feels like a gift every time an email comes through.
Nalini Singh 00:41:20 / #: So thank you for that. Yeah, it started because I was writing stuff just to explore characters and things, I would just write... Because some of them are vignettes. They're not full short stories, so you have to know the characters to appreciate. And then some of them are full short stories with the beginning and middle and the end. And I remember, because I'm a reader, I am a reader at heart. So it's like, what would I like to get as a reader? And I was like, "I want to know more about my favorite characters." I'm the person who's making up the story in my head after the final page of the book because I want to know what the next bit of the story is. And so I actually asked my readers, I said, "Do you want the stuff?" And they're like, "Of course we want this. What are you talking about?"
Sarah MacLean 00:42:13 / #: Yes, we want the stuff.
Nalini Singh 00:42:16 / #: So that's how it started. And I still do it for the fun of it. I write these at night usually, or just randomly, I'm sitting in an airport, I write it. Because these characters live and breathe in my head, particularly in the series, because I've lived with them so long. They have their own personalities, they have their own quirks, and the timeline of their story continues past the books. And so in the newsletter, it's such a nice way to be able to share that with readers. And yeah, it's just been very organic. And I always think, in my newsletters, what do I like getting from other writers whose newsletters I subscribe to? What makes me happy? What makes me want to open... Because I've always thought of my newsletter as a connection with my readers, so I don't want them to see it and they think, oh, another newsletter, it's just really silly, because we're all subscribed to so many things these days.
00:43:22 / #: So I want it to be something that they actually want to open, that they want to read, and that actually gives them a little bit of happiness in the day. And I always find it so cool when people email me and say, "Oh, I saved it to read with my cup of tea in the afternoon," kind of thing. And I thought, that's so cool. That's what I want. And I used to do it completely on my own. I have an assistant now, so she helps with putting links and all of that, doing the formatting and stuff. So that's really helpful. But the writing is still me because I think it's really important that I'm the one that's speaking to my readers with their newsletter because it is a one-on-one connection with each reader. And I have fun with it.
00:44:04 / #: And I think if somebody else was going to think about doing stuff like this, you have to have fun with it. You have to enjoy it as a writer. And that's what comes through. I write these fun little stories about the bear cubs getting covered in flour because they decided to make a cake in the middle of the night, and that cracks me up. I'm laughing along as I'm writing, and so it doesn't feel like work. It's just like I'm just having a bit of fun.
Jennifer Prokop 00:44:35 / #: It's just joy.
Nalini Singh 00:44:36 / #: Yeah, it's just joy.
Jennifer Prokop 00:44:37 / #: So I have two very good friends named Kelly, and one of them is a huge Psy-Changeling reader. And I was like, "Okay, Kelly, what do you want me to ask Nalini?" And she said, "Is Alice Eldridge ever going to get a story, a vignette? An anything?" And I was like, "I'll ask her." Let's see what she says.
Sarah MacLean 00:44:57 / #: This is the first time for a Trailblazer interview where we've-
Jennifer Prokop 00:45:00 / #: Yes, I know. I was like, I have a very personal question from a friend of mine. Alice Eldridge, what's going to happen?
Nalini Singh 00:45:06 / #: So Alice is an interesting character because even though we have known her for a long time in the book world, the timeline hasn't actually moved very fast. The Psy-Changeling series started in 2079 and we're in 2083 now. And so Alice hasn't had a lot of time to adapt to what's happened. So I've never forgotten her. I never forget any of these people. But with the Psy-Changeling series, there is a very strong overarching story structure. And so it's always like, who is important to this part of that story structure? So sometimes, it's like, well, I can't actually get a character in just because I want to see them, right? Yeah. So the answer is, I haven't forgotten her. And it is possible. It is possible something will happen, but she's not growing really old or anything out there.
Sarah MacLean 00:46:15 / #: I have a structure question for you. I wonder, sometimes you talk to authors, especially authors who do such intense world building in paranormal or urban fantasy, and the series is complete in their head. They maybe haven't gotten to the end, but they know what the end game is. They know how many books there are, they know what the plan is. But Psy-Changeling, there's this intense world building. But it sounds like what you're really saying is you don't have an end in mind. Is it expansive in that way? Or do you have a, eventually we're going to get to this place, idea?
Nalini Singh 00:47:00 / #: So I'm a little bit in between. So basically I think it's really important when you start a series to navigate because it stops the tangential meandering off into-
Sarah MacLean 00:47:11 / #: These extra-
Nalini Singh 00:47:12 / #: La La Land. Yeah. So if you look at the first series of the Psy-Changeling series, book one to book 15, it is a very specific, can I just spoiler things? I'm just going to spoiler.
Sarah MacLean 00:47:24 / #: Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:47:24 / #: Yes, that's fine. Yeah.
Nalini Singh 00:47:26 / #: So we begin with silence and by book 15, silence has fallen. So that was the main arc of that first season. That's what I wanted to do. And originally, I thought that would be where the series ended because we have the beginning and we have the ending. And I was really satisfied with the story I told, but then I realized when we got to that point that, what now? I messed everything up for these people.
Jennifer Prokop 00:48:01 / #: [inaudible 00:47:59 / #]. Right?
Nalini Singh 00:48:01 / #: So the problems are still there. So the next season began very naturally from that point, which is okay, we are at that point where silence has fallen, but the silence is not in a great place. They still have the issues that led them to choose silences, choose this life without emotion. And so what were they going to do now? And then I actually had to sit down and think about what I want to do in season two. So season two also is going towards a particular point. So I'm always leading readers towards a particular point. The one thing I don't know is how many books it'll take to get there, because that part, I allow to just happen naturally. It could take 10 books to get to the end of season two, it could take eight books. I don't know. It could take another 15.
Jennifer Prokop 00:48:52 / #: I love that you talk about them as seasons. It feels right.
Nalini Singh 00:48:58 / #: Yeah, because I learned this from watching television because if you look at a really well-written series of television, you'll see the arc, it's complete. And you have that satisfaction even though you might be going into season two with a different arc. And so a really good example of this, it's an old series, is Heroes. The first season of Heroes is really, well-written it. It's structured, so you can see where it's leading. And then you see the series where they start out with a really good concept, but they actually haven't thought of the ending.
Jennifer Prokop 00:49:28 / #: And it's messy.
Nalini Singh 00:49:30 / #: And then you don't get... It's messy. So I didn't want the mess. And so always, I consciously... I'm not a plotter as such book by book, but I plot that series arc. I know where I'm taking my readers. I know where we're going to end up, and for me, that's enough. If I have that, it keeps everything else in order if I have that overarching storyline.
Sarah MacLean 00:49:55 / #: And when you say where you're going to end up, is that as clear for you in terms of the couple that that book is going to be? Do you think about it from the character perspective too like there is a big book that we'll be moving toward?
Nalini Singh 00:50:13 / #: Sometimes. Sometimes. And then every so often, I get a bit of a shock because it doesn't quite work out how I think.
Sarah MacLean 00:50:21 / #: Yeah, same.
Nalini Singh 00:50:23 / #: So I leave that open. That's why people say, oh, is so-and-so going to get a book? Maybe. We'll see.
Jennifer Prokop 00:50:29 / #: Yeah. With you.
Nalini Singh 00:50:32 / #: Yeah, because there is growth in the series as well. I am not a person who has mapped up my character arcs five books a ahead. So every so often, someone comes along and is like, I'm really interesting, or there's something unusual happens. And so I like that. I like having the flexibility, but again, because I know the overall arc, it doesn't matter so much. I can let my characters grow naturally and just go with it. Because if a character is growing towards the main story arc, they're the one who's going to end up with the book. And if a character is growing away from the main story arc, they'll still be there in the series, but they might not end up as a main protagonist.
Jennifer Prokop 00:51:25 / #: So you go from paranormal to a rock band and rugby players, and Rock Hard is probably one of my favorite books of all time. I've read that book so many times. So what made you want to step away and do a contemporary series in the middle of all that?
Nalini Singh 00:51:50 / #: I think it was, again, that thing of needing a change for my brain, because at that point, I was writing two paranormal series, so the Guild Hunter Series is a little bit more urban fantasy, and then I've got my paranormal paranormal series, and I was like, I really need something different. And I do like to challenge myself as well just to see if I can do stuff. And quite often, I would just write it, I'll write the book and then give it to my agent is a whole thing. I don't advertise it. I don't tell anyone I'm doing it because I think it's good to just do stuff as a writer for myself and without any pressure. And if it doesn't work, then it's fine. Only I know about it.
00:52:39 / #: Yeah. But the funny thing with Rock Addiction, which started this contemporary books, is I actually started writing that years ago, years before it was published, but I just wasn't in the right head-space to do it. I feel like, I don't know, it just didn't feel right. And then one day, I was going through my works in progress and I was like, oh, I remember this one. And that day, I had it. It just worked. And so I ran with it and it didn't feel different or unusual to me because I did start with category romance, which is contemporary romance in a short format. So I just was able to move into contemporary romance in a longer format, which I think suits me better. I was never a very good category writer. Honestly, I could not sell hardly... I wrote Slave to Sensation because I was just enraged, [inaudible 00:53:35 / #] because I could not sell into category because it's the square box, round whole thing. I just didn't-
Jennifer Prokop 00:53:42 / #: It was the wrong distance for you, right?
Nalini Singh 00:53:44 / #: Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:53:44 / #: Some people run a marathon, some people run a 10K.
Nalini Singh 00:53:49 / #: It was too long. I just like to write longer and stuff. Yeah, so, it just felt really natural to do contemporaries. And so the same with my thrillers that I write now, it's something different. So I have a bit of a break between the paranormals, which I love. I will always write speculative fiction in some way, I think, but it's really nice to do these other things as well. And I feel like I learn new writing techniques with each different thing I do.
Jennifer Prokop 00:54:25 / #: So what would you say are the hallmarks then, of a Nalini Singh book?
Nalini Singh 00:54:31 / #: So it took me a long time to figure this out. Some of my friends are like, oh yeah, this is my... Oh, they used a particular word. There's the fingerprint-
Jennifer Prokop 00:54:41 / #: Core story.
Sarah MacLean 00:54:42 / #: Core story.
Nalini Singh 00:54:42 / #: The core story, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know. It took me a long time and I realized it's the same thing I like to read is the same thing I write, which is I write families, so not just like blood related families. I write found families. I write friendships that are like family. I have the Arrow squad which is a lethal assassins, but they're all tightly bonded to each other. I have the brothers in the rugby series, [inaudible 00:55:18 / #]. I have the rock band and it's really, really rare for me to write books that are a couple in total isolation. I've realized I write community books, which is, there are links all over the place. People are connected. Probably one of the ones I've written where it is a very isolated story for the romance is Heart of Obsidian.
00:55:44 / #: Yeah. They are very much alone for a lot of their book, but the characters themselves are not alone. So Caleb, who is determined to walk alone and determined not to make any bonds, has somehow still managed to have two best friends.
Jennifer Prokop 00:55:59 / #: Him and his ravine.
Nalini Singh 00:56:01 / #: Him and his ravine. He just wants to be alone in there except for Zahara. And so I don't tend to write super isolated characters because I really love exploring all the bonds of relationships, the romance, of course, the love, but also, friendship, family, what does it mean? What does loyalty mean and what do people do for each other because of the love? Or not just even the positive emotions, but the negative ones as well. Because they're quite complex. People can make choices where you think that's a bad choice, but you can see why they made it. So I love all that stuff. I guess, how would you say it? All the rivers of the human heart. That's my core story is the community. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 00:57:03 / #: Well, to that end, what are the books that you hear the most from readers about? Is there a book that you just hear about all the time?
Nalini Singh 00:57:15 / #: Heart of Obsidian. Heart of Obsidian, yeah. It's from the Psy-Changeling series, and then from the Guild Hunter series, it's any of the Elena and Raphael books. Because I think with that series, it's unusual in the sense that it's a romance series, which is there together, but it's like an urban fantasy series, which is they keep coming back in the books. And so a lot of people, it's a long love story, and so people are excited to see them again, but of a single book that is probably Heart of Obsidian.
Jennifer Prokop 00:57:53 / #: I believe it. I feel like it's so hard when you are looking forward to a book for books and then to have it be even better than you thought it would be. Right.
Sarah MacLean 00:58:02 / #: What a gift.
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:03 / #: Yeah. Right? It's amazing. It's amazing. So Nalini, I know that this is an impossible question, right? Because we love all of our children equally, but is there a book that is really special to you for any reason? One that you're especially proud of or you had trouble leaving behind or whatever that means to you?
Nalini Singh 00:58:31 / #: So I think, okay, so I'm going to cheat and I'll say two because-
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:35 / #: Allowed. That's allowed.
Nalini Singh 00:58:37 / #: It's for very similar reasons. So Desert Warrior will always have a special place because it was my first published book. I have the poster on my wall, and I remember all the feelings of holding that book in my hand and feeling like, wow, I did it. This voice is out there in the world.
Jennifer Prokop 00:58:58 / #: Well, especially since you really walked the road for a long time for that.
Nalini Singh 00:59:04 / #: Yeah. I did it the hard way. And then for the same reason, Slave to Sensation, because Slave to Sensation really catapulted my career into just a whole different level. But I just remember writing that book just compulsively. The story was just in my head, and most of my first drafts are terrible. Nobody sees my first drafts, but this book, a lot of the first draft is in the book, the published book, because it was like the story had been growing and growing and growing in my head all these years, and then it was ready and I just had to type it out. Literally, that's all I did. I lived, breathed that book, and yeah, it is a seminal book in my career, and it is the place where people really heard my name.
01:00:02 / #: When it came out, a lot of people actually said, this is a debut, because they had never heard of me even though I had six other books. So it just is a whole... Yeah, those two books are really pivot points in my life, in my career. So yeah, they'll always have a special place. And the original purple cover of Place to Sensation just still makes my heart thud, because I remember looking at that cover, and I was in Japan at the time I was working in Japan, and the cover came through and I was like, oh... I had a quote by Christine Feehan on it.
Sarah MacLean 01:00:46 / #: Oh, which is so special.
Jennifer Prokop 01:00:47 / #: Oh, yeah.
Nalini Singh 01:00:49 / #: I know, I almost died when she gave me a quote because it was like, she read my book. I was just overwhelmed. And yeah, so two very special books. But it's true. We love all our books. I think every book is the favorite. That's why-
Jennifer Prokop 01:01:10 / #: Yeah, but there are some that are more special. They do feel special. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being with us.
Sarah MacLean 01:01:21 / #: Yeah. This was a real joy. I'm so grateful.
Jennifer Prokop 01:01:24 / #: We're so grateful to have you.
Nalini Singh 01:01:26 / #: This is really fun. You two are so easy.
Sarah MacLean 01:01:31 / #: Thank you for your gorgeous books, and thank you for leaving such an indelible mark on the genre.
Nalini Singh 01:01:37 / #: Thank you. I'm still going. We'll see what's next.
Sarah MacLean 01:01:40 / #: Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 01:01:40 / #: Keep going.
Sarah MacLean 01:01:41 / #: Oh, no, absolutely.
Jennifer Prokop 01:01:41 / #: I think we are hungry for more, right? I open that newsletter every time it comes in, so, yeah. I'm here forever.
Nalini Singh 01:01:51 / #: Oh, yay. It makes me so happy.
Sarah MacLean 01:01:55 / #: She's great.
Jennifer Prokop 01:01:56 / #: She's great. I really was... The story about sending off manuscripts when she was a teenager is amazing.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:05 / #: What an amazing kid. She must have been. My God, when I was a teenager, I was no more prepared to do anything like that than I was to fly.
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:12 / #: I could barely write my college essays, everybody. So clearly that was not...
Sarah MacLean 01:02:15 / #: She's writing book after book after book, first of all, and a Broken Heart too.
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:24 / #: Honestly. Amazing.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:24 / #: The Greatest.
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:24 / #: The Greatest.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:26 / #: The Greatest.
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:26 / #: We're going to all be scouring KU for the next couple months, seeing if it'll pop up.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:31 / #: Yeah. No, but what a great story. Every single one of these authors has such a unique story, but it was really interesting to me because you caught it too, as she was talking about how being in New Zealand, she called the warehouse in New Zealand because what else do you do? And I was like, I think Mary Balogh told that same story.
Jennifer Prokop 01:02:54 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:02:56 / #: Mary Balogh also did not live in the United States, although I think at the time she lived in Saskatchewan. But it's just so interesting because you hear so many stories that is a real old-fashioned way of submitting a manuscript. Gone are the days when we wrapped up our paper and mailed it to God knows where in New York City.
Jennifer Prokop 01:03:25 / #: The thing that's amazing about it too is, her first book was published in 2003. We are not talking about that long ago. So it really is, when you think about it, when you live through a revolution, it just seems like that's how it happened, and it's no big deal. But when you think about the sea change in publishing. Like she said, there was no self-publishing. You had to go through a traditional publisher. There were only two places that would even consider you if you weren't in the US or the UK. It's almost impossible for us to imagine that now.
Sarah MacLean 01:04:02 / #: No, absolutely. Because now, the world is so small, but she kept... There were so many moments that felt that way to me when she talked about finding a community, which of course, at the time, in the early aughts, there wasn't a hugely vibrant online community of romance people that authors could go to and say, "How do I do this thing?" There was no place to ask questions. There was no hub. These women really were flying without a net.
Jennifer Prokop 01:04:32 / #: Yeah. The thing I kept thinking I should ask, and then she was just such an interesting speaker, I didn't really want to interrupt her necessarily in the things that she wanted to talk about, is, I do think one of the ways in which her books are singular is her ability to reboot a long series that is in progress. Right?
Sarah MacLean 01:04:57 / #: Well, she talked a little bit about that too, with Psy-Changeling and the way she thinks about it as seasons.
Jennifer Prokop 01:05:03 / #: Yes, right? Because many people have said you could start at Silver Silence, which is what I would assume would be the beginning of season two. And it's really interesting because I think that it's so smart for her to say, I took this vision from television seasons. Because if you are writing a long series, you have to provide those on ramps for people, right?
Sarah MacLean 01:05:27 / #: Well, there are movements. When we talked about IID in the first season of this podcast, we broke up the books in movements, and who knows whether or not Kresley Cole felt that those were the proper movements. But what I was getting at when I asked her could she speak a little more about characters and the way she thinks about prepping books or prepping a series for the long haul with characters. I think it's really interesting and it speaks to her obvious past with fantasy and sci-fi, that in her mind, it really is about the overarching world, that's whatever's happening outside of the characters themselves. Because you and I have talked about this so many times. We are obviously intimately familiar with a different paranormal series that is clearly moving toward a final book in the series that is a character book, not a plot.
Jennifer Prokop 01:06:29 / #: Right, not a plot. Yeah, exactly.
Sarah MacLean 01:06:32 / #: So I think it's a really interesting difference in the structure of the way you craft a series. I felt like this when we talked about Crest by Ice.
Jennifer Prokop 01:06:44 / #: Right.
Sarah MacLean 01:06:46 / #: The world building in Nalini Singh's books is just superior to most other paranormal romance series, I think. And that's not to diminish the world building of other series, but she's just superior.
Jennifer Prokop 01:07:02 / #: Yeah. Well, and I loved when she talked about essentially, I was going to do a little standalone and then then, oops, there are seven of them. What are you doing lady?
Sarah MacLean 01:07:14 / #: You grew up reading romance novels, you know the rules.
Jennifer Prokop 01:07:17 / #: You know how this works. Yeah. But I think the other thing that is also really interesting to me, and I think Nora Roberts is probably like this. I think Jane Anne Krentz is probably like this, is the people who are just, they're writing the books, but then there's all the other writing that they're doing. I think Christina of Christina Lauren is this, just writing all the time that writing is a reward. And I know for a lot of authors, writing really is work.
01:07:47 / #: And I think that the way that she has figured out a way to take those little vignettes and stories and just kernels of ideas and gift them to her readers is part of what makes, I think, it's just such a rich world. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:08:06 / #: But don't you feel a little bit like this is particular to paranormal? You mentioned Christina, I think you mean Lauren from Christina and Lauren.
Jennifer Prokop 01:08:16 / #: I do mean Lauren. Yes. Sorry. I do mean Lauren.
Sarah MacLean 01:08:18 / #: So setting aside Lauren, who is a special case, I feel like every time we talk to a paranormal author-
Jennifer Prokop 01:08:27 / #: They're just always... Christine Feehan, certainly.
Sarah MacLean 01:08:29 / #: The world is enormous and expansive. And I'm always thinking about them. I think about J.R Ward saying, "I'm the scribe. They just tell me the story." And it sounds wacky when you think about it, when you're talking to one of these authors at a time. But now that we have the joy of the longevity of the series of the Trailblazers, I'm starting to really think like, oh no, this is like-
Jennifer Prokop 01:09:03 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:09:04 / #: This is paranormal.
Jennifer Prokop 01:09:07 / #: She mentioned Meljean Brook, who I have to say everybody, we talked about this when we did our Milla Vane episode, but Meljean Brooke is Milla Vane. And I want her to come on the podcast very badly so we can just grill her about Heart of Blood and Ashes. But also, that's another person who I think clearly is deeply invested in the world in a different way,
Sarah MacLean 01:09:31 / #: The world.
Jennifer Prokop 01:09:32 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:09:33 / #: And that's not to say that historical authors or contemporary authors aren't invested in the world, but its is different field. Or am I wrong?
Jennifer Prokop 01:09:42 / #: No, I think that's a really interesting observation. I think that there's just people who... I just was really fascinated by it. I really liked hearing her talk about how much joy she gets out of playing around in the parts of the world that are not going to be a whole book. But that doesn't mean-
Sarah MacLean 01:10:00 / #: Just writing a [inaudible 01:10:02 / #] and putting it out there. And there is a joy in receiving those as a reader when you're like... And I can understand her. I really appreciated her saying like, "Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad you enjoy them." Because I certainly have written a number of times, just a little tiny thing that's like, here's a little thing that the characters are still doing. And I think, is this navel-gazey? Is this just me satisfying my own desire to return to this world? Do readers really want this? So I don't know, that was very relatable content.
Jennifer Prokop 01:10:36 / #: Yeah. Well, and I think the other thing that is fascinating if you think about it is I don't think I'd put together the idea that the world is actually moving so slow. Right?
Sarah MacLean 01:10:48 / #: Oh, I know. I didn't realize that either.
Jennifer Prokop 01:10:50 / #: And I thought, that's wild.
Sarah MacLean 01:10:53 / #: So she has to put a character on ice for a while.
Jennifer Prokop 01:10:54 / #: Yeah, they're not ready. And I thought that was also really fascinating because of course, we're thinking in terms of it's been 20, however many books and she's like, it's been three years, everybody calmed down. Calm down.
Sarah MacLean 01:11:08 / #: I enjoyed hearing her talk about craft. I enjoyed hearing her talk about fan service and readers and talk about somebody who just obviously cares about the way the books are received. And of course, when we asked our question about how readers engage with the books, I loved that she was surprised too by this thing that I think we all, many of us were surprised by in the early aughts.
Jennifer Prokop 01:11:45 / #: I'm always really interested in the question about how readers respond in general. And we were looking at this before we started recording, right? Hunger Like No Other was the beginning of 2006. Slave to Sensation was the end of 2006. So it's like we saw the paranormal boom, just going and going.
Sarah MacLean 01:12:08 / #: The idea that by the end of 2006, Berkeley was like, "We're done with paranormal," and this was Kresley, J.R Ward, Nalini, there were so many huge series.
Jennifer Prokop 01:12:27 / #: And I'm sure they just thought that they were at capacity. How much of a market for this could there really be?
Sarah MacLean 01:12:36 / #: Well, and also, let's not forget, right? It's not quite the same as what's going on now in contemporary. Because when you acquire a paranormal series, you are acquiring a series. You're investing in however many of these books, obviously if it doesn't sell, you're not investing in that many. But the idea is this could become a thing. We could end up with two seasons, 20 books, however many things. Whereas right now, houses are buying one, maybe two books at a time.
Jennifer Prokop 01:13:13 / #: Right. Right. Right. So I think that part is really interesting. But I also found myself really thinking about what she said about starting in contemporary to get the romance beats down, but that her true love was always going to be in creating these big worlds, right?
Sarah MacLean 01:13:29 / #: Yeah. Obviously.
Jennifer Prokop 01:13:31 / #: I think that's obviously why I... And I think also though, I was really, look, when people talk about, she did not name names when she was talking about TV shows, that started with the great premise, but didn't have an ending in mind. But I always think of Lost. Right?
Sarah MacLean 01:13:45 / #: Lost.
Jennifer Prokop 01:13:45 / #: Exactly, I said it.
Sarah MacLean 01:13:46 / #: I was so mad.
Jennifer Prokop 01:13:47 / #: Right? And I just think it's a big reason I don't trust TV anymore, are shows like that. And so I think that to know that you're in... You know when you're reading one of Nalini's books, that you are in good hands.
Sarah MacLean 01:14:00 / #: It's tight. She knows exactly what she's doing.
Jennifer Prokop 01:14:04 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:14:04 / #: Yeah. And when I feel like there is a... Obviously, I want every book to feel that way, but that is a required quality for a paranormal. You have to know that it's going to hang together. My friend Carrie Ryan, who is a YA paranormal author or Y fantasy, she always used to say, the world building is where everybody gets caught up because you think to yourself, how does the magic work? What are the rules? And with Nalini, these characters, these identities have so many rules. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 01:14:48 / #: Well, and also she was like, listen, I don't have just one idea. I've got two. And they're in the place at the same time.
Sarah MacLean 01:14:55 / #: Yeah, exactly.
Jennifer Prokop 01:14:56 / #: And they've got this long history.
Sarah MacLean 01:14:58 / #: It's tremendous.
Jennifer Prokop 01:14:59 / #: Right? The books are amazing. And it didn't surprise me at all to hear her say that people, Heart of Obsidian is the book that really hits for people.
Sarah MacLean 01:15:08 / #: Well, because everyone was waiting for it.
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:09 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:15:10 / #: That's the [inaudible 01:15:11 / #].
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:12 / #: Right. Right. But sometimes that book doesn't deliver. But I think when it does, that's when you have people forever who are like, I can't wait to get to this book. And then it's so good.
Sarah MacLean 01:15:24 / #: Yeah. Absolutely. What I love is she was... I didn't know. I've never met Nalini. I had no idea. She was so young. And now I'm like, oh, great. We have decades more of Obsidians to come.
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:35 / #: Right? What a gift.
Sarah MacLean 01:15:36 / #: And I'm like right now thinking maybe I'll go reread that Rockstar series.
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:40 / #: Oh God, I love those books.
Sarah MacLean 01:15:42 / #: I know.
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:42 / #: I'm sorry, I had to ask about them. I really do.
Sarah MacLean 01:15:44 / #: No, of course. You asked about them. I wanted to know about them too. I'm particularly fond of the fact that you asked a reader fan.
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:52 / #: I know. Sorry. Well, this is everybody-
Sarah MacLean 01:15:55 / #: I'm afraid Poor Kelly is getting upset.
Jennifer Prokop 01:15:56 / #: My TFA friend, Kelly, I think she knew. I think she knew. She was like, I don't think anybody thinks it's really going to happen. But you know what? I wonder if her hearing the rationale-
Sarah MacLean 01:16:06 / #: She did give her a good reason.
Jennifer Prokop 01:16:09 / #: It was a good reason. It was a really good reason.
Sarah MacLean 01:16:11 / #: It's not like me when people ask me and I'm like, "No."
Jennifer Prokop 01:16:14 / #: You're just like, "No."
Sarah MacLean 01:16:14 / #: I don't want to do it.
Jennifer Prokop 01:16:17 / #: She's like, it's just not ready yet. She's still in the oven.
Sarah MacLean 01:16:19 / #: Maybe. Well, listen, Nalini Singh is going to be writing for another 20 years, everyone.
Jennifer Prokop 01:16:24 / #: So I think the thing about, like I said, I feel like there are authors who... She's just so good and every one of her books just sweeps you away, exactly. Right?
Sarah MacLean 01:16:37 / #: Yeah. And she seems to be able to do everything.
Jennifer Prokop 01:16:40 / #: Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 01:16:41 / #: Right?
Jennifer Prokop 01:16:42 / #: Right. Romance, thrillers, paranormal.
Sarah MacLean 01:16:45 / #: It's wild. I think some of us, we're just conditioned to do it more, better, different. And I think Nalini is one of them. She's one of those people who is just... We are lucky to be living at a time when she is writing.
Jennifer Prokop 01:17:05 / #: Absolutely.
Sarah MacLean 01:17:06 / #: Nalini's next book for everyone, it out in November. It is called, There Should Have Been Eight. And it is a thriller. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 01:17:17 / #: I haven't read her thrillers, so I haven't-
Sarah MacLean 01:17:18 / #: I haven't either.
Jennifer Prokop 01:17:19 / #: So this was going to be-
Sarah MacLean 01:17:19 / #: I'm going to go do that.
Jennifer Prokop 01:17:21 / #: I bet they're terrific.
Sarah MacLean 01:17:22 / #: Yeah. This one's set on a remote estate in the New Zealand Alps. And there are seven friends together. And it sounds like maybe there has at some point, been a murder. I love it. I love it. I'm into it.
Jennifer Prokop 01:17:42 / #: Her books are real comfort reads for me. I've reread Cross by Ice, which we read. I've read a couple times. I've read My favorite, I think it's Rock Hard. I can't, titles, a couple times. I love that book. What a delight.
Sarah MacLean 01:17:56 / #: Yeah. And those rugby books are great. Very fun. For those of you looking for just a great sports romance, she can do it all.
Jennifer Prokop 01:18:06 / #: Well, we are lucky to have her.
Sarah MacLean 01:18:09 / #: We are. We are.
Jennifer Prokop 01:18:10 / #: A treasure.
Sarah MacLean 01:18:11 / #: So, thank you so much to Nalini again for making time for us today. It was a real treat to have her. I am Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are together, Fated Mates, and you can find us online at fatedmates.net on Twitter, at FatedMates, on Instagram at FatedMatesPod. And if you super-duper love hanging out with us and you just wish we were more in your ear holes, head over to Patreon and join our Patreon where you have access to our private Discord, where tons of Magnificent Firebirds discuss new episodes weekly and everything else, hourly, minutely, secondly, and you can find information on that at fatedmates.net/patreon. Thanks so much everyone.