S06.07: Happy Halloween: Devils in Romance Novels
Jen’s been asking for this for six literal years, and we’re finally doing it! It’s Halloween and we’re talking Devils! Sure, we’ll touch on demons, but aren’t the scariest Devils the granite-jawed feelingless scoundrels who are definitely never going to fall in love? We’re talking Wicked Cynsters in Winter, Scoundrels of Downtown, Deals in Bed with Hades. You’re going to love it. All trick, no treat.
If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
The Las Vegas Aces won the WNBA championship for the second year in a row, and twitter was actually fun for a few days.
Jen ranted about this dumb Washington Post article about Lee and Andrew Child.
We have some documentaries to recommend: Sarah liked Beckham on Netflix and Jen liked The Supermodels on Apple Plus. Linda Evangalista’s “We don’t get out of bed for less than $10,000 a day” has aged better than Kate Moss’s, “Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.” Either way, GenX has some body issues.
Devils are just morality chain when you think about it.
There actually is a place in VA called the Devil’s Bathtub! I wonder if there are any camps nearby.
Here’s a handy explainer on the difference between homophones, homographs, and homonyms from the good people at Merriam-Webster. Looks like Cynster and Sinister would be homophones.
Speaking of Cynsters, listen to our deep dive of Devil's Bride.
Here’s the video about the audiobook of Unhinged.
Are you in Florida? Sarah will be at the Off the Page Book Festival in Sarasota in November.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
Monique Fisher, author of Hot for Teacher,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Alyxandra Harvey, author of The Countess Caper,
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
and
Megan Montgomery, author of Undertaking Love
available at Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S05.38: Prologues & Epilogues in Romance
It’s hard to believe it’s taken us this long to do a prologue and epilogue episode! We talk about beginnings and endings and why they exist and why writers should ignore every piece of broad strokes nonsense advice people want to throw at them. Jen says “Prologues are plot and epilogues are character,” and blows Sarah’s mind with her genius (jk, Sarah already knew she was a genius). And yes, we talk about babies. Fair warning!
This interstitial idea came from the Fated Mates Discord, which all of our patrons have access to. Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.
Show Notes
You know, Animal Farm is a good book and King Lear is a good play.
There is a very cute family of foxes living in Chicago’s Millennium Park
Apparently this dogs and rosetone thing is a known issue.
Here is an example of the hardline “Prologues are Bad” stance. || ed note: I’m not mad about it, since I have some known hardline stances myself. Ahem. ||
Our list of things good romance prologues do: provide needed backstory, historical information, an inciting incident in the past, an unusual set-up, and showcasing the relationship between the primary characters.
Our list of things romance epilogues do: fan service, bringing the whole gang back together in a series,providing a glimpse into the other character’s POV, The HEA fulfilled, the babylogue, and surprise motherfuckers!
A link to a folder with PDFs of links in show notes.
Books Mentioned this Episode
Sponsors
Adriana Herrera, author of An Island Princess Starts a Scandal,
available now from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo
and your local independent bookseller.
and
Juniper Butterworth, author of Bewitched,
available now from Amazon, or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.
and
The Noveltea Shelf Assured Book Box,
available at novelteabooks.co
S05.28: Women's Friendships in Romance with Sophie Jordan
Sophie Jordan is back again! She’s got a new book out, The Countess, the first in her Scandalous Ladies of London series, featuring a true Regency squad full of scandalous ladies and answering the question: What if the Real Housewives were actually Regency-era aristocrats? We talk about friendships in old school romances, about why groups of women are game changers in fiction and in real life, and fill your TBR with groups you will absolutely wish you could be friends with.
In two weeks, we’re reading Tracy MacNish’s Stealing Midnight—we’ve heard the calls from our gothic romance readers and we’re delivering with this truly bananas story, in which the hero is dug out of a grave and delivered, barely alive, to the heroine. Get ready. You can find Stealing Midnight (for $1.99!) at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
Welcome Sophie Jordan. Her newest release, The Countess, is the first in the Scandalous Ladies of London Series. It’s loosely based on the reality TV show, The Real Housewives. Stay tuned at the end of the episode for the first two chapters of The Countess in Audiobook.
In horror, “the final girl” is a trope about who survives.
Check out the Pocket Bookshop next time you’re in Lancaster PA.
Enid is a secondary character from several of Sophie’s books in The Rogue Files series.
Check out the Ice Planet Podcast if you’re a fan of the series.
Books Mentioned This Episode
Sponsors
The VOW Together Collective, authors of
the LGBTQ+ Longsummer Nights anthology.
Get it at Kobo, or directly from the Collective at Itch.io
and
Victoria Lum, author of The Sweetest Agony
Available in print or at Amazon,
or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited
S04.49: Heartbreaker: Meet the Hell's Belles
Sarah has a new book out, so as is tradition for our last episode of the season, Jen is playing host, and Sarah is playing guest, and we’re talking about journeys vs. quests, how being a romance heroine is political, and why Heartbreaker just might be Sarah’s most romantic book. It’s mostly a spoiler free episode, but you might prefer to finish your read before listening. Enjoy! And don’t miss the first two chapters of the magnificent Heartbreaker audiobook, narrated by the incomparable Mary Jane Wells, at the end of the episode!
If you haven’t purchased Heartbreaker yet, you can get it at Amazon, Apple Books, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, at your local indie, or signed and with special swag (and a Fated Mates sticker!) from Sarah’s local indie, WORD in Brooklyn!
Thanks to Alyxandra Harvey, author of How to Marry a Duke; to Amazon’s Kindle Vella, publishers of Rebecca Zanetti’s Knife’s Edge, Alaska series; and to Lumi Labs, creators of Microdose Gummies, for sponsoring the episode. Use the code FATEDMATES for free shipping and 30% off your first order at microdose.com.
This episode wraps up Season 4 of Fated Mates! Jen’s returning Lil’Romance to college, Sarah’s taking a break from social media, and we’ll be back in September with Season 5, which will look similar to Season 4, with read alongs, interstitials, trailblazer episodes and some other fun things we’ve got cooking.
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful.
Show Notes
Next time you’re in Brooklyn, check out The Center for Fiction.
You can register (it’s free!) to see Sarah and Adriana Herrera in conversation with Greta Johnson from the Nerdette Podcast at the Printer’s Row Lit Fest in Chicago. The panel is at 11:30am on Saturday, Sept 10, 2022.
If you’re in MA, check out the Rom-Con, a full day celebration of “rom”ance at the “Con”cord free public library on Sept 24.
Jen’s planning a pilgrimage to The Book Barn in Niantic CT on Labor Day Weekend.
Pick your local gathering spot: The Peach Pit, Central Perk, Luke’s Diner, or in the MacLeaniverse, The Place.
Every book in the Hell’s Belles series has a cold open.
Adelaide stole the tesseract!
On TikTok, check out this amazing video by emmkick that compares MacLean to Kleypas, and friend of the pod Brittney has an entire TikTok series about the MacLeaniverse. Start with the first one here.
What’s a Himbo? I bet you’re glad you asked.
Speaking of Kleypas, our first read along for Season Five (what!) will be Marrying Winterborne, but we recommend that you read Cold-Hearted Rake first to get “the full Winterborne.”
Sponsors
This week’s episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by:
Alyxandra Harvey, author of How to Marry a Duke,
available at Amazon.
Visit alyxandraharvey.com
and
Amazon Kindle Vella
Publishers of Rebecca Zanetti’s Knife’s Edge, Alaska series
and
Lumi Labs, creators of Microdose Gummies
Visit microdose.com and use the code FATEDMATES
for 30% off and free shipping on your order
S04.27: Nine Questions about Nine Rules
It’s a Very Special Episode™️ of Fated Mates today, celebrating the rerelease of Sarah’s first book, Nine Rules to Break When Romancing a Rake! We talk about the book that started Sarah’s romance career, about why it still resonates, about new covers during a pandemic, and yes…we get to the bottom of the age old question: Will Benedick Ever Get a Book?
You can buy the new Nine Rules at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, and get signed copies at WORD.
This episode is sponsored by Adriana Herrera, author of The Duke Makes Me Feel and The Romancelandia Shop.
Our read along next week is Diana Quincy’s Her Night With the Duke, which was on our Best of 2020 year-end list! Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or at your local bookstore. You can also get it in audio from Chirp Books!
Show Notes
This tweet about Car Talk made Jen laugh. It really was the greatest NPR show of all time, and since they are no dummies, they have in fact made it into a podcast.
Buy the books with stepbacks now, because we aren’t sure how long they are going to last. Lots of folks participate in #StepbackSaturday on Twitter and Instagram to share their favorites.
Sarah's agent at the time was Alyssa Eisner-Henkin, who is still a great YA and children's agent!
Sarah's editor is still Carrie Feron, who has edited romance for her entire career. Authors she has edited include Lisa Kleypas, Susan Elizabeth Phillips, Sally Thorne, Jude Deveraux, Elizabeth Lowell and Eloisa James.
The name of the documentary about romance is called Love Beneath the Covers (2016), which is a fascinating look at the romance genre.
Where's My Hero is a romance anthology that featured some of the good guys, and it's available in eBook and print.
Sponsors
This week’s episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by:
Adriana Herrera, author of The Duke Makes Me Feel, available at
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or Kobo
Visit Adriana at adrianaherreraromance.com
and
The Romancelandia Shop, where romance lovers can find stickers, pins, notecards and more.
Use the code FATEDMATES at checkout for a free Fated Mates sticker!
S03.54: Bombshell has Landed!
Sarah has a new book out, so Jen is playing host this week, and Sarah is playing guest, and Jen is really extremely good at it…so pour yourself a glass of whatever you’re drinking and get ready! And don’t miss the first two chapters of the Bombshell audiobook at the end of the episode!
If you haven’t purchased Bombshell yet, you can find it wherever books are sold, and at Amazon, Apple Books, B&N, Kobo, or Bookshop.org.
This episode wraps up Season 3! Jen’s taking Lil’Romance to college, Sarah’s taking a break from social media, and we’ll be back in September with Season 4. Don’t worry, though, there will be a few little audio treats dropping on Wednesdays so you don’t miss us too much. (we will miss you, though. obviously.)
Thank you, as always, for listening! Please follow us on your favorite podcasting app, and if you are up for leaving a rating or review there, we would be very grateful.
Show Notes
Bombshell is here! The audiobook is narrated by Mary Jane Wells, and she’s one of Jen’s favorite narrators.
Speaking of audio, here's the official Bombshell playlist.
Maybe you want to watch the Amazons fighting in the Wonder Woman movie, just for vibes.
The Soiled S’s are the five Talbot sisters: Seraphina, Sesily, Seleste, Seline, and Sophie. Seraphina and Sophie each had their own books, and Seleste and Seline were married in the background of the series.
A series bible is used by writers as a reference document for the world they’ve made.
Some of our favorite movies with a crew and/or a heist movies: The A-Team, Ocean’s Eight, and the Avengers.
The first of Louisa Edward’s chef romances is called Can’t Stand the Heat.
Queen Victoria was on the throne from 1837-1901, and here is an overview of the hallmarks of her reign and what it was like for women during that era.
Here’s a brief history of Scotland Yard.
The word bombshell dates back to 1708.
S02.43: Daring & the Duke: It's Grace and Ewan Week!
Sarah has a new book out, so Jen is playing host this week, and Sarah is playing guest, and Jen is really outrageously good at it…move over Terry Gross! Find Daring & the Duke wherever books are sold, including Amazon, Kobo, B&N, Apple Books, Books-a-Million, or at your local indie via Bookshop.org.
Show Notes
You can listen to all of our walk-up music suggestions on the Fated Mates Spotify playlist. But in case you've never seen The Music Man, the song Marian the Librarian is very cute.
Sarah wants to be a guest on Fresh Air. (Jen obviously does, too, but has to actual cause to be interviewed. So #TeamSarah.) Do we know anyone who knows Terry Gross?
If you can't wait, you can listen to us on the Deerfield Public Libary podcast, but we're going to drop it into our own feed later this month. So no worries.
Jen thinks Sarah is in her imperial period--a phrase Jen learned from listening to the Hit Parade podcast.
The past year have had some great books about rage and feminism: The Seven Necessary Sins for Women and Girls, Good and Mad, and Hood Feminism are three we recommend.
We put children in factories all day, so of course kids fought, too. Sarah recommends The Fair Fight, a historical novel, about bareknuckle fighting kids.
Statler & Waldorf are the two old dudes up on the balcony during The Muppet Show.
The Victorian Age wasn't so great for women and other marginalized people.
That Jeffrey Epstein documentary is on Netflix.
Ewan's year-long break was inspired by The Player.
The myth of Apollo and Cyrene, and also a little about neo-classicism. One of our favorite myth retellings of the past few years, is Circe by Madeline Miller. Jessica Avery presented a paper at the Popular Culture Association about mythology in Sarah's books.
The Master's Tools will Never Dismantle the Master's House is the name of the essay by Audre Lorde. You should read it.
S02.37: Partner in Danger romance
It’s one of our favorite tropes this week — get your pens out, because we’re talking about about a thousand books that tackle Partner in Danger! You know what we’re talking about: “Oh no! This person I sometimes bone is in danger! WAIT! I am feeling feelings!!!” It’s great. We’re going to talk about why. Sarah would like to apologize in advance, because it was really hot in her house when we recorded, and it scrambled her brain.
We love having you with us! — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast, please!
Next week, it’s erotica week! We’re reading a book that Sarah loves, Nikki Sloane’s Three Little Mistakes, which we’ve talked about before on the podcast, but we want to deep dive on. Get Three Little Mistakes from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo … and don’t forget your favorite indie, which is probably shipping books right now and definitely needs your patronage!
Also, if you love the music in this or any of our episodes, check out our Spotify playlist, which includes it all!
Show Notes
As of last week, going outside looks like a pretty safe thing to do.
In fact, there is less central A/C in New York City. So watch out for the window units.
Zoom fatigue is real.
You know, there is quite a large assortment of "Dorothy in the Sheets, Blanche in the Sheets" merch on Etsy. In case you need to talk a call from your editor.
We all struggle with the illusion of control.
The trope of the damsel in distress has been around for a long, long time. So let's not fridge more women, mm'kay.
Friend of the pod Adriana Herrera has some words of wisdom about writing trauma in romance. And also Jen and Adriana did a Facebook Live chat on the topic. (link & audio forthcoming).
Pour one out for planes. And cars. And alcohol from mysterious European lands.
In case you missed Blood Blow Jobs: please refer to Fated Mates Season One, Lothaire and Rune.
Jen looked it up a map. In Reborn Yesterday, the heroine is dropped onto the Belt Parkway, not the Long Island Expressway. Still seems bad.
Edward saved Bella from a careening van in the school parking lot. And from a bunch of drunk guys.
The Most Dangerous Game is a pretty great short story, classically used to teach person v. person conflict.
Morality Chain is a great trope. Look for an upcoming interstitial on this topic soon!
In Pretty Woman, she rescues him right back.
Preorder signed copies of Daring and the Duke from WORD bookstore in Brooklyn and you'll get swag from Sarah and this special yellow Fated Mates sticker.
Books referenced this week
S02.27: Sickbed Scenes in Romance with Kate Clayborn
Sarah has the flu! She wants you to know it’s absolutely terrible and you should all get your flu shots even though she got one and still got the flu but vaccines are good for you. Also, we all want you washing your hands and air high-fiving your friends because it’s wild out there. But you are IN FOR A TREAT this week — as our fave Kate Clayborn is pinch hitting for Sarah, and we’re talking romance sickbed scenes this week! If we have to be hyper focused on sickness, shouldn’t there be yearning and vigiling and a veiled death threat against a doctor (don’t threaten doctors)?
We love having you with us! — subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform and like/review the podcast, please!
Next week, we’re reading Stephanie Laurens's Devil's Bride, starring Devil Cynster, who also happens to be the only romance hero Sarah's husband can name (yes, even now). Find it at: Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, Kobo, or your local indie.
Show Notes
Welcome Kate Clayborn! She joined Jen this week since Sarah was down and out with the flu.
Kate loves a sick bed scene. When we talk about acute vs chronic illness, the sick bed scene is acute rather than chronic. And, as Jen points out, these are almost always about physical rather than mental illness.
Some of Jen's favorite sickbed scenes are in Indigo by Beverly Jenkins and Managed by Kristen Callihan -- but we've talked about those books already! Same thing with The Master by Kresley Cole.
Kate is a lot more interested in work of all kinds than Jen. It's okay. We're still friends. We even made a hashtag, #Claykop, so we can find all our discussions.
We recorded this on Sunday March 8th, so who knows what the coronavirus situation will be by the time you listen to this.
Andie Christopher was the first to bring the I'm Baby meme to our attention when she joined us for the cinnamon roll episode.
Jen and Kate both suffer from insomnia. Sarah sleeps like a rock.
Jen was procrastinating about her report cards--but they're all done now, it's fine.
The bedside vigil is kissing cousin to Jen's cold storage fetish, and the way Kate loves it when a hero suffers.
Endomitriosis is no joke.
We'll be back next week with Devil's Bride by Stephanie Laurens.
Six Minutes with Sarah
We're on hiatus until September, when we'll start Season 2, but here is a quick hi from Sarah, with a story from her trip to the UK that only Fated Mates listeners will appreciate.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting app so you know the moment we return!
Show Notes
George & Dragon Inn, Clifton, Penrith, UK
Hugh Lowther, proper reprobate and 5th Earl of Lonsdale
17.5: This isn't a podcast; this is a Brazen and the Beast hype video
Sarah has a new book coming next week! Listen to Jen ask her all kinds of questions that she can’t answer…and also talk about why silent, grunting heroes are the best kinds. Preorder now, and get Brazen the second it is released into the world on Tuesday, July 30th!
Next week, we’re tackling the Dacians in two weeks with a two-for-one episode featuring both of these Lothaire spinoff stories, Shadow's Claim (featuring demon-sorceress Bettina and Dacian assassin Trehan) & Shadow's Seduction (featuring Caspion the demon and Mirceo the vampire prince)!
Show Notes
Jen loves hype video, and there are some for the USWNT are amazing.
All about advanced reading copies (ARCs) and what it looks like when you get typeset pages.
Jen has a new title at Kirkus: romance correspondent. She's been interviewing a lot of authors.
Kate Clayborn perfectly described why we love a grunting hero.
Only 33 Fortune 500 CEOs are women, which is nonsense.
Listen to our Curvy Heroines interstitial.
Covent Garden and the rookeries.
What's a life peerage?
What it means to be "on the shelf."
Audiobook narrator Justine Eyre is the narrator for Sarah's books. Can you even imagine what would happen if she and Petkoff ever got together and narrated a romance?
Preorder Brazen & the Beast at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple, or Indiebound -- or from Sarah's local indie, WORD, and get it signed and with fun goodies!
5.5: Road Trip Romances
We’ve got Doritos, a stack of Cosmo sex quizzes and an epic mixtape ready to go — Sarah and Jen are talking about road trips and the inevitable smooching that comes with them in romance!
Next week, we’re back to the Rage Demonarchy Duology with Kiss of A Demon King — where we get the full wrap up of the plot of the second in the duology, and the wrap up of the plot of Dark Desires After Dusk. We’ve seen Rydstrom total his McLaren and get abducted by Sabine, who is not only Queen of Illusions but also his Fated Mate and he’s not feeling great about this at all (Spoiler: We feel very great about this.) We’ll be joined by the fabulous Jenny Nordbak from The Wicked Wallflowers podcast for part of the conversation, and it will be a longer episode than usual because of that!
Get ready for the KoaDK read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
Texas is very big, everyone.
Here's some interesting facts about Starbucks.
Jen had no idea how posting horses worked until Elisabeth Lane asked on Twitter. (Sarah knew.)
Looking for books with carriage sex? Twitter has recs for you.
Learn more about the Gilded Age in America.
New York's Grand Central Station is absolutely magical.
Hildene, a museum of Lincoln's family home, has a full-scale reproduction of an amazing private rail car...It's amazing how someone on Twitter will always know the good things.
All about bustles.
Trading Places is a 1983 comedy with Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd, and the blog Obscure Train Movies has an extensive break down of the train scenes from the movie.
The Ani Difranco poem Sarah mentioned is called Self-Evident.
Buy yourself a set of butterfly swords for $500. JK. That's probably a really bad idea.
Here's an overview of the Tang Dynasty, and its capital Chang'an.
If you haven't seen Mad Max Fury Road you should probably drop everything and take care of it.
In case you were wondering what the world looked like in 750, Time Maps has you covered.
Here's a list of rich heroines/poor heroes from goodreads.
A quick summary of Pygmalion, and if you happen to be in New York City, you can go see My Fair Lady at Lincoln Center.
Sarah talks about Tom Hardy a lot on Twitter. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Apparently, it is Low and High Fantasy, and Reddit talked about the differences between them.
There's a Slurpee twitter account, which shouldn't really surprise anyone if you think about it.
4.5: Curvy Heroines in Romance
Happy New Year, Fated Matesers (This isn’t a great name for us. We need a better name—someone name us)! We’re back, it’s 2019, new year, new us, and we’re starting as we mean to go on with Curvy Heroines, because, in the words of Julie Murphy, Every Body is a Swimsuit Body. Jen and I love a curvy heroine, and the men who love them, and so curvy romances are OUR FAVES.
Next week, we’re getting into Demons! We’ve met Cade, the prince of Rothkalina (the Rage Demonarchy) and his brother Rydstrom, its deposed King, before — they were in the Talisman’s Hie, and in Néomi & Conrad’s book. Next week, we tackle Cade & Holly’s story, Dark Desires After Dusk, with Rydstrom & Sabine’s book Kiss of a Demon King two weeks later. We highly recommend reading these two close together!
UPDATE 1/20/21 - We did it again! Don’t miss a brand new set of recommendations in S03.23 - Curvy Heroines Redux!
Show Notes
- In the summer of 2018, Jen and a bunch of people on Twitter discussed Nine Rules to Break While Romancing a Rake using the hashtag #9RulesRake.
- Sarah also has a curvy heroine romance that is coming in July! Brazen & the Beast has a gorgeous curvy heroine on the cover.
- Just a reminder that Jenny Crusie is completely awesome, and Bet Me is an amazing book.
- Courtney Milan has lots to say about romance. All of her books are amazing, but we talked about The Heiress Effect.
- Never Sweeter by Charlotte Stein was awareded the platinum medal in Jen's "Who Did It Better in the Library" post.
- Romancelandia often recommends books with curvy and fat heroines, and there are quite a few thoughtful pieces about how we think aobut these characters our ourselves.
- Naima Simone writes very excellent books and Jen & Sarah want this one right now.
- Olivia Dade is an advocate for fat women in romance, and Jen and Sarah both loved this thread and want to read books about all these heroines.
- Check out the full transcript for this episode.
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah MacLean 0:00
Okay, okay. Hi. You're listening to Fated Mates. This is Curvy Heroines Week.
Jen Prokop 0:07
I'm Jen Prokop, otherwise known as @JenReadsRomance and my fearless companion...
Sarah MacLean 0:13
Sarah MacLean. I like to write books, and I like to read books about curvy heroines. I like to write books about curvy heroines, too. I'm writing one right now, actually.
Jen Prokop 0:23
You've written many a great book about curvy heroines. And if you haven't read Nine Rules to Break When Romancing a Rake, you can start there.
Sarah MacLean 0:32
That's really nice.
Jen Prokop 0:34
I have, you know, I'll put in the show notes. The picture I gave it to my friend Elizabeth to read and she put it back on my desk at work, with a post-it note on it and it just said, "delicious".
Sarah MacLean 0:46
Oh, that's so, thank you, Elizabeth. That's very kind. But we're not talking about my book this week. That's all. That's the Sarah part of the show.
Jen Prokop 0:55
Yes.
Sarah MacLean 0:56
Jen. Why do we like curvy heroines so much?
Jen Prokop 1:01
Cuz I am a curvy heroine.
Sarah MacLean 1:03
Yeah, me too.
But besides just wanting to see yourself on the page, which is a valid reason.
Jen Prokop 1:09
Okay, so here's what it is for me, it's always back to who deserves and HEA, and I think there are so many ways in which our media celebrates beautiful women. And I like to see that all women are beautiful. All women deserve love. And that's it. I say that to people, I say this to my students all the time. You're going to fall in love one day and the person you fall in love with is going to be beautiful to you. And I think that books with curvy heroines, I don't know they just really hit that mark for me and we talked about your book but the other book that did it first and did it best for me was Bet Me.
Sarah MacLean 1:47
Jenny Crusie.
Jen Prokop 1:49
When I read that book the first time I just thought, I don't know, it just really it felt revelatory, and so talking about books with curvy heroines i think is near and dear to our heart. So you tell me why you think it's important.
Sarah MacLean 2:03
Well, I think you just sort of hit the nail on the head. I actually think that the best thing about curvy heroine romances is that they tend to hold a mirror up to all women and maybe just humans in general, but this sort of sense that even at our most flawed, even when we sort of look at ourselves and say, and see, we see all the parts of us that are wonky, somebody who loves us, just sees the most perfect person and the most beautiful parts of us. And that is a joy to read. And it's a joy to experience in life when you're with your friends or your loved ones. And that's why I love, that's why I love these books, but actually you bring up the Jenny Crusie's Bet Me makes me think like is it possible Bet Me was the first one because prior to Jenny, I mean, in the early days of romance, heroines were perfect. Like really, really perfect. Like every book had a knight hero who could span the heroines waist with his hands,
Jen Prokop 3:05
Right. His manly hand.
Sarah MacLean 3:07
I think I think Jenny might have been the first one. I'm going to do some research and figure that out. And we'll put it in show notes if we find something earlier than that, but could be.
Jen Prokop 3:16
Yeah, and maybe, maybe that's why but I mean, I read that book and remember thinking it changed me like something fundamentally changed in me when I read that.
Sarah MacLean 3:24
Well, do you think it was just that suddenly like romance heroines could be something else, could be more, different, better...
It just opened up a door and I think it opened up a door in my own brain too.
Sure. All right, you start.
Jen Prokop 3:36
okay. I'm going to start actually because I really liked what you said about like a curvy heroine, right, we see her through her own eyes, but also through society's eyes. And a book that I think plays with this brilliantly, is called The Heiress Effect by Courtney Milan. It's a historical, it's part of the Brothers Sinister series. And that's book number two, if you could read it as a stand-alone and I think this book is amazing. I don't know if you've read it, but I loved it.
I think this heroine, her name is Jane, is essentially using the way society views her as a weapon to fool society itself. I don't know that I've ever read anything like it. And so it is profoundly feminist. There's this really amazing scene at the beginning where she describes them trying to, like make her waist many inches smaller than it is by like using corsets. And I like flinched as I read it, but then she actually wears like really outrageous outlandish clothes and she does it, like she realizes they don't think she's beautiful, that they mock her, and that she's going to use that against them to essentially like escape their notice because she has a huge dowry of 100,000 pounds, and she does not want to get married. And so she is playing this game where she's using their perception of them as a way essentially of making herself, like she's it's like at one point the hero realizes she's essentially acting like a butterfly right like she's beautiful and wearing bright colors and it but it's poisonous. And I just think this book, along with having this amazing curvy heroine, one of the smartest heroines, this amazing hero, the cast of characters, the social justice aspect of it. The hero sister. Her name is her name is free. She's like vote fighting for voting rights and the whole book is just from top to bottom, just a real treat. And so the other thing I liked about it is it Jane is clearly a curvy heroine and a Oliver loves her. It's the kind of woman he likes, but it's not the most important thing about who she is. And we and Oliver come and she herself come to see that about her about her.
Sarah MacLean 5:50
Courtney, if you've never read a book by Courtney, this is a really good place to start actually, Courtney does so many things beautifully, but the thing that always comes back to me with Courtney's books. The heroes are always so incredibly Noble.
Jen Prokop 6:04
Oh, yeah.
Sarah MacLean 6:05
They act with such strong conviction. And they know what's right. Capital r. They will do everything to make sure that they behave in that way. But they move the world they moved the needle toward that.
Jen Prokop 6:20
Oh, it's so good. Well, and I'll tell you what the other thing about this is this is a book that we've talked about, like the setup, right? Like so Courtney like sets up this whole thing where essentially the hero is supposed to take her down, and I sort of thought, Oh, hi know where this is going. I did not know where it was going at all. And it was like their struggle to be the best versions of themselves, both for themselves, and for each other. This book is perfect. I loved it.
Sarah MacLean 6:49
You should read a book by Courtney Milan.
Jen Prokop 6:51
Absolutely. What about you, Sarah?
Sarah MacLean 6:54
I'm going to talk about a different kind of hero. A very, very different kind of hero, who is not, does not move toward an nobility instantly. So I want to talk about Charlotte Stein. I want to talk about Charlotte Stein basically every day.
Jen Prokop 7:11
All day.
Sarah MacLean 7:12
All the time. If you've never read a book by Charlotte, you absolutely need to rectify that
Jen Prokop 7:16
and probably clear an entire day of your schedule because once you start you will not be able to stop
Sarah MacLean 7:23
you will just buy every Charlotte sign book one after another, and it will just you'll lose your day to great delicious joy. Because the best way for me to describe how Charlottewrites a book is It's like watching two people fall in love inside a phone booth while you're in it with them.
Jen Prokop 7:42
Oh my god, that's so perfect.
Sarah MacLean 7:44
And you're just like, it's too much. It's too much to watch and I feel weird about watching it but I can't stop like it's just
Jen Prokop 7:53
right.
Sarah MacLean 7:53
You're just in there. And these two deeply imperfect people Charlotte has never written a perfect character. I think in any of her books.
Jen Prokop 8:01
but she might be a perfect writer
Sarah MacLean 8:02
For sure. I think Charlotte is one of the very best writers writing today. She's such a writer's writer. I feel like every writer I speak to acknowledges we all just wish we could write like Charlotte.
Jen Prokop 8:14
It must be intimidating. I've actually I'm like, I just get to read it and be like, this is amazing. I can't even imagine like imposter syndrome must take over all of you when you read her book.
Sarah MacLean 8:23
Anytime I read a book by Charlotte, I end up thinking to myself, like, well, there goes three weeks of me sitting around feeling bad about myself.
Jen Prokop 8:34
But I want it I don't I mean, anyway, so I can't say enough good things, obviously, about Charlotte. But this book is called Never Sweeter. And you guys,
I know I just like fell over. It's so good.
Sarah MacLean 8:46
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna do the setup. And you're gonna go Oh, Sarah, I don't know. So the premise is, it's setting College and the heroine who is very curvy in high school was relentlessly bullied by a group of boys to the point where she is run off the road and down a pretty dangerous cliff by these boys who are who are torturing her with bullying, and there's no good reason why she's just like all bully, there's no good reason why. And she's run off the road. And that's the beginning of the book. And then immediately we cut to her in college, and she goes into a class and sitting inside in the class is one of her bullies. And he is there to make amends. She's horrified. She's terrified. She's all the emotions that you would be. She wants away from him. She wants out of this, this entire world. But he is there and he's in college with her and he wants to apologize. He wants to make it right. And they fall in love. And it is
Jen Prokop 10:05
it's amazing.
Sarah MacLean 10:06
So incredible, because the whole time in your head you're thinking, no, absolutely not. This is not acceptable. And the whole time. I mean, Charlotte just writes this hero who just is working so hard to rectify the past. And this heroine who just is so strong because she's so able to tell him "no", and she's still able to resist it until she realizes that maybe there is something more than resistance. And I don't know I think I'm doing a bad job describing it but I think it's
Jen Prokop 10:44
No you're not
Sarah MacLean 10:45
so beautiful.
I read a book a day, right? I mean, I've read 10,000 that's not an exaggeration, romance novels in my lifetime. And I think it is rare that you can come across a book where you just you can't see how the writer is going to finish it. The whole time you're doubting that it's even possible to do it to pull it off and then somehow Charlotte just does and it's beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful romances I think ever written.
Jen Prokop 11:16
I think so too and I think that the curvy heroine part I would say, it's really essential to Lenny's character I think because like when they talk right when they become friends first is that he says I didn't want you going through the world thinking that everyone was going to treat you that way. And I think it's like metaphorically it's some level to like how fat people are treated in the world. Right like we're we're sort of like look away and and I think there's something really beautiful about his love for her is so pure and again, it's like that same thing we talked about when you talked about escort books, right? Everyone deserves love, like your physical package should have nothing to do with like whether or not you are deserving of someone loving you profoundly and deeply and I think this book at every single, every single layer does that so well. That's amazing.
Okay, so my final one is way lighter, a jaunt really but we know we have to come right out of the deep well that Never Sweeter will will put you in and all of Charlotte's books really but I love a book like really love in a way like I don't know every single bell rings on my belt. It's called Playing It Cool by Amy Andrews and it's a part of a whole series all the like playing at whatever books are part of a series about Sydney rugby team, which I know nothing about rugby, but I've really liked all these books and the main character is a guy named Dexter and it actually starts off with him. And all of his like sort of buddies on his rugby team are basically like, hey, there's your kind of girl on the sidelines, because she's like a bigger curvier woman and her...her name is Harper and...
Sarah MacLean 12:58
can I just interrupt and say Love that moment in this book we're like you're not because we have talked a lot about curvy heroines who are feel uncomfortable in their skin and you know, God knows that's real but there's something remarkable when in the first moment of the book like a huge an entire rugby team is like that one
Jen Prokop 13:19
that Yeah, like there's your kind of girl and I remember being like but wait like I literally I think I went back and reread it like wait a minute, is that what I think it means that they all know that he he likes curvy women and they see one and they're like, there she is the one for you. I love this book was really great and, and what happens is they end up dating they end up like falling in love but because he is so fixated on rugby, like his sort of like you know, I only have this short I'm a professional athlete and my time on this team is going to be short so I don't really have time for like serious like a serious girlfriend like that's just going to mess me up. They sort of have this like low key like where she starts thinking that he's keeping her under wraps. And she's like, Is it because of the way I look? And he's like, no, it's because I really just wanted to focus on rugby. And you know, there's this amazing scene though, at the end. And I think this is also part of why I love this book. I don't think it's super spoilery where she goes to it, they go to a benefit, and they go separately, and she is dressed in this like knockout dress. And every man in the room can see how beautiful she is. And it is killing Dexter because he knows like, you know, he's like, everyone now sees what I've seen all along. And I just this book, like really worked for me at every level. I think, you know, the camaraderie between Dexter and his team. The affair between the two of them per work is like a muralist and her insistence that she deserves to have someone who loves her. Absolutely, and she doesn't need to be second best to anybody's job. I don't care if it's rugby or not. Basically and she I just love this book. I loved everything about it.
Sarah MacLean 15:03
Yeah, it's a great read.
Jen Prokop 15:05
And it's like, it's like a fun read, right? Like, it's not really serious, you know, but I just think it's like a great fun read with like, here's a curvy heroine who is like, I deserve more. And hero has to be like, Yes, you're right, dear. What do you need for me?
Sarah MacLean 15:17
Also, I think sports heroes in that moment are pretty great. Like the dichotomy between like the super sporty like celebrity hero and the normal girl who you know,
Jen Prokop 15:30
right
Sarah MacLean 15:30
looks like a normal person is really delicious. Always. That's why books like the wall of winning pegan me work so well. You know, because there is that sort of literal body perfection versus just ordinary everyday.
Jen Prokop 15:44
Right. And I one of the things I love is the authors who make space for women to feel the way they feel about their bodies and to know they deserve love and that they're going to get it right that romance is going to deliver that to them. That's really essential and important to me.
Sarah MacLean 16:00
So, my last book is kind of an older title. It is the first Bela Andre book I ever read. It's called take me and fun fact. I loved this book so much that I then went to the RWA national conference. And I like stalked Bella into and forced her to be my friend. And now we are friends. But I love take me so much. This is the same kind of I mean, you you guys are going to get a real sense of the kind of heroine curvy heroine I look for but the heroine of this book has been best friends with one half of a set of like ridiculously attractive twins for her whole life. Since they were four or five years old, and her best friend has always been her best friend and his twin brother has always been sort of aloof and not really present in her life and not really showing much interest in her, and she of course has had like this crazy unrequited crush on him forever. And I love an unrequited love story. I love unrequited love. Yeah, it's good. And so essentially what happens is she suddenly like so he's, you know, a millionaire. This was in the ages of millionaires, you guys, this predates billionaire,
Jen Prokop 17:23
Do better.
Sarah MacLean 17:25
And he's this sort of like Star millionaire, amazing, you know, all around person. And they end up but she's an interior decorator and he's a he's a developer, real estate guy. And he takes her he hires her basically to help decorate a client's house. And it becomes really clear, really quickly. I think early in the book, there's like a drinking mishap and then there's like an almost sex moment and then becomes very clear very quickly that like he's had feelings for her for a long time. And he ends up flying her to Italy to like shop for stuff for...
Jen Prokop 18:11
For his like mansion or whatever.
Sarah MacLean 18:14
Yeah, and so they fly to Tuscany and they have this like incredible weekend Tuscany and she the whole time she's like at some point the other shoe is gonna drop in this like fantasy that I have fallen into with this guy who I've been in love with for my whole life. It's just going to fall apart because he's never dated anybody who isn't like size double zero. And then she sort of sabotages it just by virtue of not believing in herself, and it's so real, like it's so painfully real because he's like, I can't convince you of what I see. And until you're able to see what I see, I don't know how to be with you. I don't know how to make this work and it is real honest. And you know, I think this is the thing that a lot of people do like we naturally as humans sabotage relationships because of lots of reasons and this is it just felt so authentic and I still to this day I love bellus books so much so many of them I love but this one still to me is like the perfect Bella Andre book.
Jen Prokop 19:17
Well and I think that's the other thing that any imperfection that any character has to deal with but especially body image issues really are about self acceptance and I think that's why it's it's not enough for your romantic partner to accept you the good books the best books are then about "I accept myself" and I think that's why they really like hit you right in the heart because all of us are working on ourselves. And and i think that all books have characters working on themselves, but somehow this struggle, really, maybe it just speaks to me personally, but when it's good, it's it's a book I just really love and they stay in rotation. And I've read and read read them and have them in multiple formats. And that's when I know it's like a real keeper for me.
Sarah MacLean 20:07
Yeah. So shout out your favorite curvy heroines. Tell us on twitter hashtag #fatedmatespod. Don't forget that if you'd like us to tackle a trope for you, you should let us know. And we will do with pleasure.
Jen Prokop 20:22
So, if you are enjoying our podcast, we would love for you to subscribe to it. Give us a rating and share it with your friends online on Facebook, on Twitter, in the coffee shop wherever you might be talking about your favorite podcast.
Sarah MacLean 20:38
Okay, everyone, well, that was curvy girls. If you are a writer out there thinking about writing a curvy romance, please do. We need more of them. I saw Naima Simone tweeted about one a couple of days ago and I'm super excited for that one. Naima, write faster.
Next week. We are back to IAD and we are on book number five. And the demons are coming you guys I'm so excited. The first book is Dark Desires After Dusk, which is Cade & Holly's book as you know we've met Cade and rods from his deposed King or dethroned King. I don't know. I don't know what the word is will sort it out before that episode. But we've met him twice. He was part of the Hie with Bowen and Mari, and he is a pretty significant piece of this Neomi and Conrad book, The Neomi and Conrad book, which we did last week. So we've got Cade and Holly up first. It's a road trip romance, and it's one that we have a lot to say about. But here's what I'm going to say because now we've finished recording both Cade and Rydstom's books.
And Jen and I think that you should probably read them both back to back if you can. If you have the time, because Rydstrom and Sabine's book, which is Kiss of a Demon King, and Cade & Holly's book, which is--what did I just say?--Dark Desires After Dusk--work in concert with each other. They're overlapping for quite a bit of time. And I think that once you've read both, both books get better.
So we are back next week with Cade and Holly's book and they still intend to release Rydstrom & Sabine's episode in two weeks after that. So there's plenty of time for your reading in order. Real life real time IAD readers were reading them six or eight months apart, so you'll be fine. We just think that you might like it better if you read them both back to back. And we have a lot to say about both of these books and there's a whole lot of conversation coming about horns and we have a special guest for Sabine and Rydstrom's book who's got a great story, and you're going to love it.
So yay! Thanks for joining us again for Fated Mates. We're super excited to have you always. If you are enjoying the podcast, don't forget to subscribe and like and review and tell your friends. Tell your mom or whoever else you would like to tell about us.
Thanks so much, guys.
3.5: Holiday Romance
It’s the Holiday Season™️, which means it’s time to talk about Holiday romances! Get ready because there are A WHOLE LOT of books in this show. Also, get ready, because next week, on December 26th, instead of releasing our Dark Needs at Night’s Edge episode, we’re releasing a bonus Ask-us-Anything episode as a special holiday present to you!
Show Notes
Our official IAD reread will resume January 2nd, with Néomi (ghost) & Conrad (vampire) and we have so. many. feelings. SO MANY.
- In case you're curious, here's where Jen learned to properly pronounce Therese Beharrie's name. Therese wrote 2 Christmas books this year: A Wedding One Christmas and Her Festive Flirtation, and Jen liked them both.
- Before Sunrise came out in 1995, a sequel Before Sunset in 2004, and a third Before Midnight in 2013. This New Yorker review is a perfect example of everything Jen hates when people review anything romantic, so hate-read it if you're in the mood.
- Jen completely got the name of that chapter book wrong, it's The Best Christmas Pageant Ever.
- Novellas are really common in romance, maybe more than other genres, and Jen anxioulsy awaits the think-piece explaining why.
- Speaking of novellas: The anthology of Chanukah stories that Sarah mentioned is called Burning Bright; Reindeer Games is an anthology of stories with the snowed-in trope; and in Silver Belles, all the characters are over 40.
- Sarah described the cover of A Holiday of Love as an example of a certain type of old-school book package. But just last year, A Christmas to Remember with Lisa Kleypas, Lorraine Heath, Megan Frampton, and Vivienne Lorret followed the same exact cover protocol.
- Epistolary novels are super fun to read (Jen's favorite is Where'd You Go, Bernadette, Sarah is--unsurprisingly--very pro epistolary romance; her favorite is Kleypas's Love in the Afternoon), but Jen's pretty interested in how they are changing in the age of the internet.
- All three of the books in the Men at Work series by Tiffany Reisz are delightful, but the Thanksgiving one is an absolute classic.
- Last year, Jen ranked Thanksgiving romances for The Book Queen.
- How the Dukes Stole Christmas is pretty great, and here's where Jen talked about Joanna Shupe's novella on twitter.
