12.5: Small Town Romance
Small towns! Jen (Chicago) and Sarah (NYC) do not understand them IRL, but we are talking about them in fiction this week! Listen to us talk about their genesis, what they represent, and why Romancelandia can’t get enough of them. Books by Sierra Simone, Vanessa North & Alisha Rai!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review. Also — if you have a romance loving friend, please let them know that we don’t just talk about vampires & valkyries, and maybe they’d like us, too?
In fact — In two weeks, we’re not talking about vampires at all! (Except we kind of are) The Game Makers series read-along begins with Kresley’s first contemporary, The Professional. Get ready for Wroth Brother fanfic that Kresley herself refers to as “way sexier” then IAD. Get The Professional at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In case you missed the Signet Regency era of romance.
More about the Regency period, and Sarah would like you to know that she knows “a bunch of people” didn’t come between George IV & Victoria. One person did: William IV.
Everyone's favorite Darcy and Darcy-esque figure.
Jane Austen and her world, Georgette Heyer and hers.
Cleveland DOES rock, and yes the Cuyahoga River caught on fire, but that whole story is kind of a myth.
Y'all know who Jen means when she talks about Kelly, right?
The word Jen was searching for when talking about small town romances was "revisionist."
Maybe it wasn't "some Russian" who talked about the two stories.
Colson Whitehead is amazing and Jen definitely recommends seeing him in person if you ever have the chance. You can read his post 9/11 essay at the New York Times.
All about how Americans live: urban, suburban, or rural.
Nora Roberts was profiled in the New Yorker and talks about her favorite small town: Boonsboro.
Farrah Rochon also writes a great series of small town romances.
As it turns out, there is not a Menage County, KS.
Did you say RITA books?
Jen's favorite cupcake place in Chicago is Sweet MandyB's.
A Roller Derby glossary and some video tutorials for all your favorite moves. Stay safe, kids!
Montagues & Capulets. Hatfields & McCoys. Chandlers & Kanes.
The saddest discovery Jen made while working on this week's show notes is that Hot as Hades is no longer available as an eBook! Oh no!
On Twitter, Bree Bridges of Kit Rocha asked people to reply with the size of a "small town."
In Brooklyn, go to Butter and Scotch for cake, and based on this website, they have some very Romancelandia-friendly swag.
Have you pre-ordered Brazen and the Beast yet?
12: Do Not Let the Lykae into the Yankee Candle Store: MacRieve
MacRieve is here and so is friend of the pod, Sierra Simone! We’re so excited to talk about The Full Kresley, what makes erotic romance, The Simone Scale™ of taboo romance, why MacRieve is so tough to read, why Sarah thinks it might be Kresley’s best book, and why Chloe is such a badass. There’s a lot of hysterical laughter, and Sarah is preparing for legal action.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, we’re starting Kresley’s contemporary series The Game Makers (we’re reading the books in original publication order) with The Professional. Get ready for Wroth Brother fanfic that Kresley herself refers to as “way sexier” then IAD. Get The Professional at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
The NECRWA conference always sounds so great!
I don't even know where to start with Andie Christopher and her Chris Evans obssession.
Avengers Endgame, that ol' chesnut.
We stan Sierra Simone, and we love The Sierra Simone Scale™. Check out her two latest, Misadventures of a Curvy Girl and A Lesson in Thorns.
Debbie Macomber is a queen of small town contemporary romance.
You can't stop me, you can only hope to contain me is a play on a very catchy ESPN phrase from back in the day.
Adriana Herrera wrote about how to ethically write about sexual trauma for Smart Bitches. She also joined us to talk about Food Romances & her most recent release.
Adriana Anders' Under Her Skin explores a story of a woman's traumatic past, as does Long Shot by Kennedy Ryan.
Suzanne from Love In Panels wrote a great explainer about content warnings and why we use them.
This is a powerful critique of sexual violence in Game of Thrones.
Just last year, two books about women and anger were published: Rage Becomes Her by Soraya Chemaly and Good and Mad by Rebecca Traister.
More about emotional dysregulation.
The Black Lyon by Jude Deveraux is an old school classic.
Dick flu is definitely some BDE.
You'd be surprised about how much writer's advice you can find about the evils of the info dump.
There's an entire subreddit dedicated to ranting about Comcast.
Yankee Candle will eff a werewolf up.
You can listen to Kresley on the Wicked Wallflowers podcast.
The story of Sir Walter Raleigh throwing down his cape for Queen Elizabeth to walk over is not historically accurate, but it still makes for a great scene in Shakespeare in Love.
The Fifth Element is a completely rewatchable movie.
All about the Mothman, who, it bears pointing out, Lothaire says exists.
Here's the beginning of Sarah's stalking of Sierra after reading (and loving) Priest.
Next time, we're going off road and have decided we'll be reading the first book in The Game Makers series, The Professional. Here's the reading order for the rest of Fated Mates Season One.
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (8)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
- After receiving Lothaire's heart in a box, Ellie cuts off her middle finger and sends it to him. (Lothaire)
- Chloe's shoulder is dislocated in the escape from her auction (MacRieve).
Chest and Torso (7)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- On Torture Island, Regin,
- MacRieve,
- and Brandr are vivisected. It's pretty terrible. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Declan's skin is peeled off by the Neoptera as a child. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Lothaire rips out his own heart and sends it to Ellie in a box. (Lothaire)
Head, Face, and Eyes (6)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lothaire kicks out La Dorada's remaining eye and throws her over a cliff. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- In the Bloodroot Forest, the tree grows over Lothaire's lips and tongue. (Lothaire)
- After she gains her immortality, Chloe's hair grows, but she cuts it off every morning. (MacRieve)
Horns (2)
- Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (4)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. Garreth promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
- Declan fights and beheads several creatures as they escape Torture Island, including squeezing one dude so hard his eyes pop out and then he twists his head off. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Beheading as a Non-Romantic Gesture
- Ellie cuts off Lothaire's head, leaving a slender 1/8 of an inch left. It was kind of an accident, but he deserved it. (Lothaire)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- When Soroya inhabited Ellie's body, she subjected her to a full Brazilian wax. Ellie doesn't realize it's happened until she takes control of her body again. (Lothaire)
11.5: Sports Romance with Jenny Nordbak
Are you a sports ball fan?! Do we have romances for you! We’ve got the brilliant Jenny Nordbak from The Wicked Wallflowers podcast back for a sports romance interstitial! Listen to us chat about why we love sports books, the alpha, competence porn and books by Kennedy Ryan, Tamsen Parker, and Naima Simone!
Next week, it’s (FOR REAL THIS TIME) MacRieve week with Sierra Simone! We’re so excited, and Sierra is the perfect guest for this sex-driven book! Get MacRieve at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
Welcome back to our guest Jenny Nordbak from the Wicked Wallflowers podcast!
Everyone loves a trip to the hairdresser.
Here's a list of the RITA finalists, and a link to Jen's new twitter account which tracks her reviews of the finalists.
Author Bronwen Fleetwood crunched a bunch of RITA data from the past 20 years, which is how we know there are more winners named Susan (and Elizabeth, Barbara, Karen, Jennifer, Ann, Jill, Linda...) than WoC finalists.
Famously, the Hugo Awards also struggled with recognizing the best books in their field.
Here's what we are talking about when we talk about how PoC are underrepresented in publishing.
Um, actully Sarah, Ulysses is a twitter thread.
This week, Sarah told a pretty solid competence porn story about her neurosurgeon on Twitter.
Kennedy Ryan has been on the Wicked Wallflowers podcast. Twice.
Content warnings for Long Shot.
Adriana Herrera, author and friend of the Pod, recently wrote a very important piece for the Smart Bitches about how to portray sexual assualt in romance.
Why the Ray Rice elevator video is important.
Jen's written about the whiteness of hockey romances for The Book Queen. Don't believe Jen? Back in 2012, commenter #11 left a plea for more hockey romances on this Smart Bitches post. I bet they are happy now.
Susan Elizabeth Phillip's Chicago Stars series is a romance classic.
There's no crying in baseball.
Jen reviewed all of Tamsen Parker's Snow and Ice Games series.
Olympics atheletes are busy, y'all.
6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon was an amusing 90s pop culture game.
Tennyson is a romance heroine and a famous poet.
Listen to Naima's interview on the Wicked Wallflowers.
Fumbled is a new football romance by Alexa Martin, and it deals with CTE.
Get ready for MacRieve.
Periods, Pizza, and Point of View: Another AMA with Jen & Sarah
Jen and Sarah were together in the same city in the same room and just couldn’t pass up the chance to do a real-deal AMA while looking at each other’s faces! You asked, we answered…but get ready. There are some weird things in here (mainly said by Jen).
Next week, it’s MacRieve week with Sierra Simone! If you think things got weird this week, just you wait! Get MacRieve at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
- At KissCon, Sarah and Sophie Jordan hosted a session called "Bananas Books" and friend of the pod Beth took notes and listed all the titles.
- Jen's Best Friend Kelly runs The Resistance Button Club, makes avatar buttons, and also designs stickers and swag for Romancelandia.
- You can see the signed copy of Wicked Abyss on our insta.
- Jen wrote about making new TBR collections for her Kindle on Twitter.
- Soren is one of the characters in Tiffany Reisz's Original Sinners series.
- Check out the IAD fan Facebook group.
- Check below in the photo array for the Kleypas books with talismans.
- Fridging is a comics term, and this explainer uses Deadpool 2 to explain the history of this problematic trope.
- Close 3rd person point of view is very common in romance.
- Unreliable narrators are very uncommon in romance.
- Here's how to make a Chicago-style hot dog.
- A quick primer on archetypes.
- Next week, we're talking about MacRieve with the magnificent Sierra Simone.
- Sarah's newest book, Brazen and the Beast, comes out in July and you should pre-order it now!
11: Woof. Hope Your Headphones Didn't Fall Out! - Lothaire
Lothaire is here! We’re so excited, we don’t know what to do with ourselves, but FYI, this is a longer episode than usual -- so get ready! We're talking morality chain romance, how Lothaire is a pure ass but incredibly funny, and how Ellie is pretty much the only mate he could ever have. Also, we love Nix & Lothaire a lot.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, one of our favorite people, Sierra Simone, is joining us to talk about The Full Kresley, and MacRieve! It's going to be a great time, we promise. Get MacRieve at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
Learn about tone-policing so you won't make Jen mad.
Maybe we haven't recommended audiobook narrator Robert Petkoff to you enough.
Justine Eyre is the audiobook narrator who was nominated for an Audie for Sarah's book Never Judge a Lady by her Cover.
Love Between the Covers is an amazing documentary about romance, and you might be able to find it on Netflix.
Everyone knows the difference between hardback and paperback books, but learn the difference between mass-market and trade paperbacks.
During the Lothaire bus tour, Kresley wrote her fans this Facebook letter about the experience.
Paul Marron is a very handsome man.
The morality chain trope. 0 Other famous series with villains-turned-heroes include Lisa Kleypas's Wallflowers (Devil in Winter), Elizabeth Hoyt's Maiden Lane (Duke of Sin), and Sarah's Scandal & Scoundrel (Day of the Duchess).
Italy discovers what happens when everyone is raising a mammone.
Lothaire breaks his life up into tasks, sort of like Hugh Grant in About a Boy.
When Robert Downey Jr. starred as Sherlock Holmes, he can forecast the moves his opponents will make in a fight.
On Twitter, Melanie did a very thorough count of all the times Lothaire punched a wall.
Lothaire is very funny. Andie Christopher, friend of the pod, is very pro his cock slapping gnomes joke.
Old Friends is a very sweet song by Simon & Garfunkle, even if you aren't learning to play the ukulele.
Check out the Romance Sparks Joy read-along on Twitter and Facebook. Get M. Malone's Bad Blood for the April 15th Read!
MacRieve will be next, and Sierra Simone will be joining us!
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (7)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
- After receiving Lothaire's heart in a box, Ellie cuts off her middle finger and sends it to him. (Lothaire)
Chest and Torso (7)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- On Torture Island, Regin,
- MacRieve,
- and Brandr are vivisected. It's pretty terrible. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Declan's skin is peeled off by the Neoptera as a child. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Lothaire rips out his own heart and sends it to Ellie in a box. (Lothaire)
Head, Face, and Eyes (5)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lothaire kicks out La Dorada's remaining eye and throws her over a cliff. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- In the Bloodroot Forest, the tree grows over Lothaire's lips and tongue. (Lothaire)
Horns (2)
- Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (4)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. Garreth promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
- Declan fights and beheads several creatures as they escape Torture Island, including squeezing one dude so hard his eyes pop out and then he twists his head off. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Beheading as a Non-Romantic Gesture (2)
- Ellie cuts off Lothaire's head, leaving a slender 1/8 of an inch left. It was kind of an accident, but he deserved it. (Lothaire)
- In the fight with Ruelle, MacRieve and Munro's mother is beheaded by a envenomed vampire boy. Their father then beheads the vampire. Ruelle is also killed. (MacRieve)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- When Soroya inhabited Ellie's body, she subjected her to a full Brazilian wax. Ellie doesn't realize it's happened until she takes control of her body again. (Lothaire)
10.5: Fake Engagement Romance
This one has to be a top-ten universal trope…were talking fake engagements! Listen to us chat about why ladies love a fantasy, the royal wedding, marriages of convenience, and books by Elle Kennedy, Talia Hibbert, Chelsea M. Cameron and Kate Clayborn!
GIRD THY LOINS, LOTHAIRE IS NEXT!
A jumbo episode with this jumbo jerk face dreamboat! Get Lothaire at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie…and if you’re an audio lover, you are not going to want to miss Robert Petkoff on this one — Jen hearts it baaad.
Show Notes
Ana Coqui is the force behind #RomBkLove.
The twitter thread where Mary Lynn Nielsen perfectly described the fake engagement trope.
In historicals, the trope is usually called marriage of convenience.
Garrets are empirically great romance heroes.
Kate Clayborn joined us for our Best Friend's Sibling episode.
The royal wedding of Harry & Meghan was so delightful. We wish them many years of happiness.
New adult is a genre descriptor that not everyone loves, but there are lots of wonderful NA romances.
She's All That is a 90s teen romance starring Freddie Prinz Jr. and Rachel Leigh Cook.
"That Six Pence None the Richer" song is called Kiss Me.
2 historicals that Sarah mentioned this week are His at Night by Sherry Thomas and Pleasure for Pleasure by Eloisa James.
Lothaire is next. We can't even.
10: Declan Chase is Kinda Trying: Dreams of a Dark Warrior
Mr. Vivisection is here, and it’s a whole lot! Regin the Radiant is on Torture Island, and just her luck, the guy running the whole show is a berserker reincarnate who she’s loved in five earlier lifetimes. Declan Chase is a highly controversial Kresley hero, and Dreams of a Dark Warrior is a book Sarah and Jen always skip on the reread…but this week, we’re talking about it and *gasp!* we’re kind of on #TeamDeclan by the end?! UP IS DOWN!
This episode, we’re digging into the way Kresley builds characters and lays the brickwork for the rest of the IAD series. We’re talking about torture, about childhood, about packing for the end of days, and about Lothaire’s Guide to Wooing Women. We’re joined by the wonderful Sarah Hawley, co-host of the Wicked Wallflowers podcast, and Declan-stan.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, strap in because Lothaire. Is. Here!!! We’re so excited we don’t know what to do with ourselves, but FYI, this is gonna be a double episode for SURE. Gird your loins. Get Lothaire at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In Salman Rushdie's novel Haroun and the Sea of Stories, juggling is often used as a symbol for storytelling.
There's not much better than a snowed-in romance. Or maybe marriage in trouble is more your speed.
"That just happened" is a quote from a very funny scene of a movie with Alec Baldwin called State and Main.
Mr. and Mrs. Smith and the single sexiest hate fuck ever filmed. /fans self
The heist movie slow walk is iconic.
Villains as heroes: hard to write, delicious to read.
Sarah Silverman interviewed a woman who escaped from the cult of The Westboro Church.
Talia Hibbert had to quit this one.
The Lord of the Rings Ring is super fancy. And super creepy.
Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame has a TED talk. Of course he does.
Welcome to Sarah Hawley from The Wicked Wallflowers Podcast
Kylo Ren is Han & Leia's jerk son. Presumably he'll get a redemption arc, but the jury is out on whether he deserves it.
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo is a good book and a great movie. Don't at Sarah (MacLean).
The Morality Chain trope, and some romance examples.
White Satin by Iris Johansen. "I think it's time for beer," is what FDR said after while the country was deep in the Great Depression before he sent word to Congress that he wanted to end Prohibition.
Lothaire is coming, and just clear your whole day for what will likely be a three hour podcast. Also, maybe you want to brush up on The Odyssey (free for Kindle).
A huge shout out to Heather Pagan, who helped us with medieval French and edits the Anglo Norman Dictionary. Here’s the official translation of the Medieval French, along with some fascinating notes on historical swearing, which you all know is our favorite!
Go copulate with a pig - Va foutre un porcel! (literally, go fuck a pig). Unless the joke is that they are being formal (ie. copulate and not fuck) in which case: Va couvrir un porcel!
You defend that rampart female? - Femme / Dame, defendis tu le terrail?
To the death, prick*! - Jusqu'a / A la mort, ribaud! OR Jusqu'a / A la mort, paillard! OR Jusqu'a /A la mort, pautener!
* There are lots of words for penis/prick in Old French, but I don't have any evidence that they were used as insults (and that's a whole 'nother book about when we began to use genitalia as offensive words...) I've chosen to translate it with a bunch of words that mean 'jerk'. The words I used are all ones that end up being borrowed into English (ribald, pailliard, pautener) for someone who is base / rascally / a scoundrel / someone of low status etc.
Thoughts (or why you never ask an academic for a translation...) We actually don't know overly much about medieval swearing. What we know about language use during the period is based on what was written down, and what was written down (gross generalization ahead) tended not to be 1) direct / indirect speech or 2) of a less formal register. Nevertheless, we do have some record of what people said, and in some cases, how they would curse each other. A lot of these curses were be religious in nature - damning them, accusing them of bad faith etc. We have one amazing set of texts, referred to as the Manieres de Language, which were an early type of phrase book for Englishmen wanting to learn French in the late fourteen century. These include my favourite section - insults! So this is mainly what the translation is based on - though insults of the time were a bit different.
Here are some from the phrase book (translated): You're lying, you evil bastard; Go hang yourself, you bastard; Go away you bloody son of a whore; You will pay!; Kiss my ass (I am very pleased that this has been the eternal insult!); Kiss the devil's ass; Go to the devil!
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (6)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
Chest and Torso (5)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- On Torture Island, Regin,
- MacRieve,
- and Brandr are vivisected. It's pretty terrible. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
- Declan's skin is peeled off by the Neoptera as a child. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Face and Eyes (4)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lothaire kicks out La Dorada's remaining eye and throws her over a cliff. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Horns (2)
- Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (4)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. Garreth promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
- Declan fights and beheads several creatures as they escape Torture Island, including squeezing one dude so hard his eyes pop out and then he twists his head off. (Dreams of a Dark Warrior)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
9.5: Food Romance
This week, Adriana Herrera joins us again to talk food romances and Sarah is very excited. Adriana’s debut food romance, American Dreamer, is on shelves now. We talk about the book, the pull of the food romance novel, and why nourishment is sexy. Also, Sarah basically name checks her whole favorites shelf.
Next week, it’s full Torture Island with what is probably the most controversial of the IAD books—Dreams of a Dark Warrior. Declan Chase—torturer extraordinaire is our hero, Regin the Radiant is the woman he’s been trying to love for a millennium, and we’re full bananas in the lead up to Lothaire! Get ready! Get DoaDW at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie. Don’t forget that the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
Welcome back Adriana, and if you didn't hear her on our Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night episode, you should check it out.
The concept of love languages comes from 1995 self-help book The Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman. It's a little soft for us. We prefer this additional list of love languages, from McSweeney's.
Adriana talked about her grandmother bringing a pot of Sancocho from the DR to family in New York, and here's a twitter thread where Adriana makes a pot with a friend.
American Dreamer came out at the beginning of the month, and the sequel American Fairytale comes out in April. Find American Dreamer at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books or Kobo.
The dull thuds you're hearing in this episode are Sarah's phone falling off her desk. She is convinced her phone is defective because it falls off flat surfaces every day. She has fantasies of finding Jony Ive's phone number and texting him lists of everything it falls off every day.
Next time you're in Brooklyn, you should visit the Smorgasburg.
Find a Michelin star restaurant to try if you're so inclined.
Just kidding about the Soylent Green thing. Really.
Jen interviewed Mia Hopkins last year when Thirsty came out.
The song Jude was singing was Latinoamerica by Calle 13. You, too, can find great music on NPR.
A romance has to have an HEA or HFN, but a love story doesn't. Don't at us.
An interesting think piece from The Common Reader about how we view competence in men and women.
9: Torture Island!!! - Demon from the Dark
Torture Island is here and we could not be more excited! Demon from the Dark is Jen’s favorite book in the series, because she loves poor, broken Malkom, the vemon with a heart of gold, and his fated mate, Carrow, our second witch, whose powers come from other people’s joy.
This episode, we’re digging into the worldbuilding of the second movement of IAD — Torture Island. We’re talking about innocence and how it is a great motivator, what saves a heroine from being unlikeable, why bathing is sexy, and how we really would like it if more men offered up the heads of our enemies as tribute. As always, there’s a lost-limb count and Lothaire-Watch!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, get ready for the most (we think?) controversial of the IAD books — Dreams of a Dark Warrior, when Declan Chase, unknowing berserker and magister of Torture Island, gets paired with Regin the Radiant. Get DoaDW at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
In the 1976 movie Rocky, one of the things he consumes during training in a glassful of raw eggs.
Jen loves books about nuclear weapons and nuclear disasters, and the mindset of the Order is very much that of mutually assured destruction during the Cold War.
In Buffy, it was called the Initiative. Angel, Riley, and Spike were her boyfriends on the show, but in the comic there are other lovers.
Your brain isn't fully cooked until you're 25!
Duolingo helps you learn languages, but if you're in a hurry just drink down somebody's blood.
Sarah's friend Natalie Parker's book is called Seafire and it has the most gorgeous cover.
Book Riot makes the case for a Romantic Horror subgenre, and Victoria Helen Stone wrote about the relationship between romance and suspense.
Some information from Pew about rural vs urban living in America.
Adventures in Babysitting is an 80s movie all about the horrors of some kids and their babysitter getting into trouble in the big, bad city of Chicago (or, as Jenny Holiday & Jen call it: Dirty Toronto).
You can tell a lot about a culture by its parenting.
Pygmalion and Encino Man.
Some directions for any tailsman-making endeavors.
Lore parenting tips aside, Jen wrote once about how human parents can talk to their kids about sex.
Maybe 28 Days Later isn't the best metaphor for IAD, but it's a scary movie.
Jen loves it when heroes grovel.
A vemon is a vampire/demon hybrid; Venom is a Tom Hardy movie.
If Jen knew photoshop, she'd be putting Malkolm inside a Sweet Valley High circle... Demon Love!
Yao Ming is very tall compared to Kevin Hart, but Jason Momoa and Lisa Bonet are much better fancasting for Malkolm and Carrow.
Friend of the Pod Adriana Herrera was on our sister podcast Wicked Wallflowers last week.
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (6)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Lanthe and Carrow cut off Fegley's hand so they can use his thumb to unlock their torques. He's later killed. (Demon from the Dark)
Chest and Torso (2)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Face and Eyes (3)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Horns (2)
Cadeon cuts off his own horns to prove to Holly that he is worthy of being her mate. She tells him to let them grow back (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Malkolm is captured by his enemies in Oblivion and taken to the city of Ash. The publicly cut off his horns and then intend to kill him, but Carrow saves him. (Demon from the Dark) ** Legs and Feet (3)**
Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Beheading as a Romantic Gesture (3)
- The first time Garreth spies Lucia, it's when she shoots an arrow and beheads a kobold. He notices that it's "a fantastical shot" and he's super into it. Later, he helps her pick up the head because he's a real gentleman like that. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- Later in the book, they are under attack from vampires and Lucia asks him to help. He promises to "give her their throats" and beheads two vampires. But she's upset about it because of a previous bad experience with cannibalism. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ (Pleasure of a Dark Prince).
- Malkolm beheads men that attacked Carrow in Oblvion, and he throws them to prove he's a worthy mate. (Demon from the Dark)
Maybe?
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
8.5: Gateways to Romance
You’re new to romance, where should you begin?! This week, Jen and Sarah are talking about good gateway romances, and we’ve got four that we think work for readers who’ve never dipped a toe, but are open to things from dukes to magic, the America West to kinky London and everything in between.
Next week, it’s Jen’s favorite IAD book, Demon from the Dark! Malkom Slaine is a demon living alone on another plane…until witch Carrow Graie comes to fetch him. Get DFTD at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie. Don’t forget that the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
Next week, it's Demon from the Dark since we already talked about Pleasure of a Dark Prince!
Derek Craven is our favorite and since it's our podcast, we don't have to listen to anyone talk about St. Vincent.
A librarian who excels at reader's advisory is a wonderful thing to have in your life.
Check out Jen's website for targeted romance recommendations.
John Warner is the biblioracle, and he's an amazing advocate for educators and the teaching of writing. He's also one of the key players in The Morning News Tournament of Books, which is literary blood sport par excellence.
An explainer about American-style universtiy course numbering. Jaime Green is the New York Times romance reviewer and we love her.
One of the most hilarious twitter accounts is all about the smells of romance.
The Georgette Heyer chronotope and its limits explained.
If you are interested in knowing the "beat for beat" way a romance is built, you should check out this book by Gwen Hayes.
The ton, the modiste, and Bond Street.
Everyone loves a read-alike, but the problem is finding them.
The Governess and rake tropes are beloved by romance readers, and Tessa Dare's The Governess Game is an excellent example of the trope in action.
Lol, you can't fool Jen. She is absolutely not googling "sex swing."
Hillary Clinton said some things about romance novels, and Romancelandia wasn't having it.
NPR's Codeswitch wrote about Passing in America.
Sarah isn't the only one who learned about history from romance novels.
Jen described her angst vs. stakes theory in this post.
Alexander Chee is a delight, but Jen hated A Little Life more than any other book she's ever read, so just enjoy this Nicole Cliffe thread where a million people dunk on it.
The Sex House for sale in PA was the best 2019 story. Don't believe us? Read this interview with the realtor.
Epistolary novels are interesting; but Jen, Melinda, and Kat talked in this review about Thrall by Roan Parrish & Avon Gale and whether or not epistolary novels work in the age of the internet. (Edited by Sarah to add: Epistolary novels are the tits and anyone who says otherwise is F- wrong.)
The bass line in question.
Jen and Sarah really hate cliffhangers.
Andrew and Illona Gordon are a husband and wife writing team and Jen would probably read anything they wrote (as long as there were no cliffhangers.)
Tom Hardy as Mad Max and fancast as Derek Craven, Mad Rogan, Rune, etc.
8: Triggering the Chastity Clause: Pleasure of a Dark Prince
We’re back with the werewolves this week, with one of our very favorite books in the series, Pleasures of a Dark Prince, featuring Garreth MacRieve and Lucia the Huntress, a Valkyrie who is burning it all down.
This episode, we’re discussing the way this book wraps up the first movement of IAD and preps readers for what’s to come (SPOILER: IT’S TORTURE ISLAND), we get into how the books are becoming more political, we update the lost-limb count, begin Lothaire-Watch, and dig into why it’s just plain futile to try to stay away from a werewolf mate on the night of a full moon. More than all that, we’re interviewing moon expert Summer Ash about moon business, and Jen is beyond excited.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, get ready for vivisection, because it’s happening on Torture Island, and we’re doing a reread of Jen’s favorite book in the series, Demon From The Dark! Malkom Slaine is a demon living alone on another plane…until witch Carrow Graie comes to fetch him. Get DFTD at Amazon, B&N, Apple Books, Kobo, or from your local Indie.
Show Notes
This article explains "the heir and a spare" and also has a lot of Prince Harry. Fine.
It's an astronomy heavy show, so learn all about The Big Bang.
Ah, the double entendre.
All about how goals are scored in rugby.
Turns out there are lots of myths about gods and cannibalism.
Chastity is one of the seven virtues, but the seven deadly sins sound a lot more fun.
Is it really necessary to link to Fifty Shades of Grey?
The "he-cession" recession.
Women and the second shift.
The Cooler stars WILLIAM H. Macy, obviously. Robert H. Macy isn't even a thing.
The Amazon rainforest is truly amazing, but Brazil's new president Jair Bolsonaro is removing legal protections from the rainforest.
A man who tried to contact a legally protected island tribe died in the South Pacific last year.
Indiana Jones and lots and lots of snakes.
Lara Croft Tomb Raider is a 2001 movie with Angelina Jolie, but here's a great explainer to the entire Lara Croft franchise.
El Dorado myths and details.
Jen's idly curious if Charlie/Isabel character is a nod to the Brazilian Travesti culture, but she doesn't know enough about it to be sure.
The Wonder Woman "Godkiller" is a sword, not an arrow.
In two weeks, we'll be discussing Malkom & Carrow in Demon From the Dark.
Welcome Summer Ash! Please check out her blog Startorialist, which brings science and fashion together.
More about moon phases and the baby moon/dying moon way of remembering if the moon is waxing or waning.
The Dreamwakers Program helps classrooms all over the country skype with scientists and STEM people. So cool!
No, you can't blow up the moon.
What If! is a great collection of XKCD columns, including Jen's favorite about whether or not you can swim in a pool with spent nuclear rods.
Jen really loves books about nuclear disasters.
Light pollution is the worst.
Check out the Sky Guide app.
More about Haley's Comet and the Bayeux Tapestry.
Astronomy on Tap is worth checking out.
The moon is amazing. Look up!
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (5)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
- Lucia peels all the skin off from her hand in order to free herself from some handcuffs. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
- In order to retrieve the ring from La Dorada , Lothaire cuts off her finger. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Chest and Torso (2)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
- Lucia's neck is broken. She regenerates. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Face and Eyes (3)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- During a rugby match, Garreth has his teeth knocked out and swallows them. (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
These Lingering Questions
- Does Garreth's losing his connection with his mortal soul count? (Pleasure of a Dark Prince)
7.5: Scotland Historical Romances
It’s Scotland week, Lads and Lassies! We’re talking about the great green jewel to the north of England, where the ladies are bold and the lairds are brawn, and we're all just wishing we could get wrapped in a plaid and cuddled through a cold Highland night.
Next week, we’re back with the Lykae with Pleasure of a Dark Prince—starring the FULLY DREAMY Garreth MacRieve and Lucia the Huntress, who just might be our favorite heroine yet. We’ll be talking wolf holograms, how Kresley is blowing the doors off the IAD world, and we’ll be starting Lothaire Watch!
Get ready for the PoaDP read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
Here's the twitter thread where Lillie talked about imprinting on Julie Garwood.
The Heaving Bosoms podcast is pretty great, and although this episode about Mastered by Her Mates by Grace Goodwin is not set during Highlander Times, it's profoundly hilarious.
Some brief explainers about why old paperbacks have dyed edges, but according to Sarah's research, the more popular an author, the more likely it was the pages would be dyed.
All about kilts. Also, it's never too late for a calendar of men it kilts.
Dirks and broadswords, oh my!
Goodreads has a few lists of Broken marriage romances, but Jen recommends Cherish Me by Farrah Rochan.
Here's a google folder with screenshots of the entries for cunt, cunny, pussy, quim, shit, and fuck from the Oxford English Dictionary. Jen mentioned a book called Cunt: A Declaration of Independence, but it's kind of Terf-y, so she does not recommend it.
Sarah does talk about the etymology of swear words a lot on Twitter, becuase fuck just isn't a new word. Don't @ us.
If you want to learn more about the etymology of swear words, Melissa Mohr's Holy Shit: A Brief History of Swearing is the book for you.
A thread about vaginas by friend of the pod S.S. Jaxon.
You definitely want to see the flying fuck image and read Jen's column called Who Did it Better on a Horse.
Lyrics to a song from 1657 that uses some very choice dirty words. Maybe you prefer to listen?
The Hangover is a 2009 comedy, so who knows if it's held up over time.
Sarah, Sophie Jordan, and a bunch of other amazing authors will be at Avon's KissCon in early April. Jen will be there as an attendee, and we'll definitely have some sort of Fated Mates meet-up!
Jen said she texted Sophie, but that's not true. She tweeted at her.
Katy Budget Books has a super-amazing romance section and if you want to order signed copies of Sophie Jordan's upcoming book, you should contact them.
Next week, we return to IAD with Garreth and Lucia in Pleasure of a Dark Prince.
7: Ghost Pepper Town: Warlord Wants Forever & Untouchable
We’re tackling the novellas this week, and finishing up the Wroth Brother Quartet with The Warlord Wants Forever (Nikolai) & Untouchable (Murdoch), as well as their incredible Valkyrie mates.
This episode, we’re talking about Myst’s weird chain, Danii’s loneliness, the responsibility of authors to readers, to themselves, to the text, and to literary history, and the way Untouchable hints at the enormous world that IAD is about to become.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
In two weeks, we’re back to the Lykae, with one of our favorite books — Pleasures of a Dark Prince, the last book in the first arc of the IAD series (this begins at the same time as A Hunger Like No Other). Garreth MacRieve, prince of the Lykae clan and Lucia the Huntress — the greatest archer of all time.
Show Notes
The Wroth Brothers are dreamy, and here are the books the feature Nikolai, Sebastian, Conrad, and Murdoch.
Take a look at the IAD Ranking Spreasheet of Wonder from the Wicked Wallflowers Podcast.
Sarah refers to our novella episode, but she means the Holiday Romances episode where we had a long discussion of the novellas as a form.
Jen collected some comparison screenshots from the original (A) and revised (B) versions of The Warlord Wants Forever. The two versions of the scene after the chain is broken; The two versions of the first time they have sex; and the two versions of Nix naming herself.
Dubcon romances have main characters who agree to sex play featuring "dubious consent."
A little more about the versions of Whitney, My Love. You can still find original versions on eBay or Amazon, but you'll pay more for them.
Jen mentions Eric Selinger at DePaul. He teaches classes on Romance at DePaul, which is local for her. SADLY, they don't have PhD programs. But you can read more academic romance talk at a blog called Teach Me Tonight.
The Hello Stranger review at Smart Bitches calls out the Orientalism in the novel, and features Lisa Kleypas' response.
The Memory Hole is a reference to 1984 by George Orwell.
A little more about why sheikh and Native American romances are problematic.
A definitive list of the qualities, skills, and powers of vampires in literature and pop culture. At some point, Jen's going to add IAD.
Retcon stands for "retroactive continiuity" and here's a great primer about it from the best dictionary, Merriam-Webster.
In two weeks, we'll be discussing Garreth & Lucia in Pleasure of a Dark Prince.
6.5: Freewheeling with Joanna Shupe: Enemies to Lovers Romance
This week, we’re having a fun, far-reaching conversation with the wonderful Joanna Shupe—who loves Kiss of a Demon King a whole lot, immediately saw the echoes of one of the most famous old school romances inside it, and came to talk to us about enemies to lovers romances, but ended up telling us all about that time she spent a lot of time researching penetrative sex in carriages. We had a great time, and hope you do, too!
Our next read-along episode will tackle the final two Wroth brothers with the two IAD novellas, The Warlord Wants Forever (Nikolai) & Untouchable (Murdoch), available in the Deep Kiss of Winter anthology! This will be the last time we tackle vampires until Lothaire, so get your fill!
A Note: There are two version of The Warlord Wants Forever — you want the most recent version.
Show Notes
Joanna Shupe writes delightful Gilded Age romances. Check out this twitter thread where Jen raved about A Daring Arrangement.
Sarah was hunting for that Lora Leigh book on Twitter.
Goodreads reviewers have feelings about Prisoner of My Desire.
Of course there's a YouTube channel of classic clips from Candid Camera.
Eleanor of Aquitaine is an amazing woman. The 1968 film The Lion in Winter stars Katherine Hepburn and Peter O'Toole.
Hot Island Nights is the prequel to Her Best Worst Mistake.
Jen also talked about A Matter of Disagreement on Twitter.
Consider this a placeholder in case Joanna shares links from her sex in a carraige research. Jen's a little afraid to google search that one.
A barouche is a real thing, and you can learn more about all of it at the Carriage Museum in Long Island.
We return to IAD next time with two Wroth brother novellas, the first is The Warlord Wants Forever (an earlier version of this was available in an anthology called Playing Easy to Get. It is not HUGELY different, so it's okay if you just have that one--we'll talk about the differences during the episode.) The second is called Untouchable and available in the Deep Kiss of Winter anthology.
6: Reclaiming the Unlikeable Heroine: Kiss of a Demon King
One of the best loved books in the IAD universe, this week we’re talking about Kiss of A Demon King, the completion of the Demonarchy Duology, starring Rydstrom, the deposed King of Rothkalina, and his fated mate, Sabine, the Queen of Illusions, which is an incredibly handy power.
We’ve got a fabulous guest host this week, Jenny Nordbak from our sister romance podcast, The Wicked Wallflowers Club. Jenny is ride-or-die for Sabine, and she’s got a fabulous personal story about her relationship with the book that we’re thrilled to share with you.
This episode, we’re talking traumatic pasts, horns (I mean, obviously), villains, the unlikeable heroine (a whole lot), and we’ll come back around to Cade & Holly and tackle the unfinished business from their book!
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Novellas are up next! We told you we’d get to the rest of the Wroth Brothers eventually, and eventually is here! Our next read-along episode will tackle both novellas, The Warlord Wants Forever (Nikolai) & Untouchable (Murdoch), available in the Deep Kiss of Winter anthology! This will be the last time we tackle vampires until Lothaire, so get your fill!
A Note: There are two version of The Warlord Wants Forever — you want the most recent version.
Show Notes
Our special guest this week is Jenny Nordbak, author of the memoir, The Scarlett Letters: My Secret Year of Men in an LA Dungeon and co-host of the Wicked Wallflowers Club Podcast.
All about the freudian slip.
Here is Wendy's blog post about the righted world, along with a twitter thread that Jennifer Porter wrote that eloquently talks about the importance of this idea. Teach Me Tonight jumped in with a look at how this same phenomenon plays out in academia.
Jen's friend Liz, the Latin teacher!, loved this book for the sheer number of classical allusions. Here's a report of some of her mort specific findings:
"mors, mortis" means death in Latin, so O-mort means "without death" or "in the way of death."
The Ourbouros is an ancient symbol that shows up in Egyptian traditions.
Finally, the invaders that Omort led into Tornin--the Invidia, Libitinae, and Undines--are also Latin allusions, and they're really evil in the classical world. (Invidia--this Latin word means jealousy and personified envy. Undines-- Latin word for female spirits that inhabit the water. Libitinae--has several meanings: the goddess of corpses (in her temple were kept the funeral apparatus and registries of death), the apparatus of funerals, or death itself.)
Jen's interview with Adriana about Domestic Violence in romance.
The name Sabine might be a reference to Rome's neighbors, the Sabines. The story of the abduction of the Sabine women has been told in art over and over again. It's intersting to consider why this name was used: perhaps to reclaim a story where sex was a weapon used against women?
Melanthe means "dark flower" in Latin, and she was a minor character in the Odyssey.
Gone with the Wind has a very problematic portrayal of the happy slave and the good master. House elves aren't much better.
The Wicked Wallflower's IAD Spreadsheet of Wonder.
All the horn photos are on Instagram.
The Babysitter's Club Summer Special, and all the other amazing goodness of the Scholastic Book Club. And in case you didn't know, the Scholastic Book Club & its Book Fairs are still a thing.
Jenny's book is called The Scarlett Letters: My Secret Year of Men in an LA Dungeon.
That Mr. Too Big (not to be confused with Mr. Big) Sex in the City episode.
The Arcana Chronicles is a YA series by Kresley.
Why yes, both Sarah and Jen have been on the Wicked Wallflowers podcast. When you're done listening to this episode of Fated Mates, head over to listen, and don't forget their interview with Kresley Cole & Gena Showalter!
The Warlord Wants Forever & Untouchable (in the Deep Kiss of Winter anthology) are coming up next.
Lost Limb Count
Arms and Hands (3)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
- Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
- Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
Chest and Torso (1)
- Omort severs Rydstrom's spine and punches through his torso in a fight. Sabine saves him and enlists Hag to help heal him. (Kiss of a Demon King)
Face and Eyes (2)
- Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Legs and Feet (3)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
- Thronos is chasing Melananthe and loses a foot when a portal closes on it. (Kiss of a Demon King)
5.5: Road Trip Romances
We’ve got Doritos, a stack of Cosmo sex quizzes and an epic mixtape ready to go — Sarah and Jen are talking about road trips and the inevitable smooching that comes with them in romance!
Next week, we’re back to the Rage Demonarchy Duology with Kiss of A Demon King — where we get the full wrap up of the plot of the second in the duology, and the wrap up of the plot of Dark Desires After Dusk. We’ve seen Rydstrom total his McLaren and get abducted by Sabine, who is not only Queen of Illusions but also his Fated Mate and he’s not feeling great about this at all (Spoiler: We feel very great about this.) We’ll be joined by the fabulous Jenny Nordbak from The Wicked Wallflowers podcast for part of the conversation, and it will be a longer episode than usual because of that!
Get ready for the KoaDK read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
Texas is very big, everyone.
Here's some interesting facts about Starbucks.
Jen had no idea how posting horses worked until Elisabeth Lane asked on Twitter. (Sarah knew.)
Looking for books with carriage sex? Twitter has recs for you.
Learn more about the Gilded Age in America.
New York's Grand Central Station is absolutely magical.
Hildene, a museum of Lincoln's family home, has a full-scale reproduction of an amazing private rail car...It's amazing how someone on Twitter will always know the good things.
All about bustles.
Trading Places is a 1983 comedy with Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd, and the blog Obscure Train Movies has an extensive break down of the train scenes from the movie.
The Ani Difranco poem Sarah mentioned is called Self-Evident.
Buy yourself a set of butterfly swords for $500. JK. That's probably a really bad idea.
Here's an overview of the Tang Dynasty, and its capital Chang'an.
If you haven't seen Mad Max Fury Road you should probably drop everything and take care of it.
In case you were wondering what the world looked like in 750, Time Maps has you covered.
Here's a list of rich heroines/poor heroes from goodreads.
A quick summary of Pygmalion, and if you happen to be in New York City, you can go see My Fair Lady at Lincoln Center.
Sarah talks about Tom Hardy a lot on Twitter. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Apparently, it is Low and High Fantasy, and Reddit talked about the differences between them.
There's a Slurpee twitter account, which shouldn't really surprise anyone if you think about it.
5: That Vessel Business: Dark Desires After Dusk
DEMONS ARE HERE! We’re talking Dark Desires After Dusk, starring Cadeon Woede (Prince of the Rage Demonarchy) and Holly, his human fated mate (SPOILER SHE ISN’T HUMAN, WHAT!). This one is the first in what we will end up calling the Demonarchy Duology — and we encourage you to read the next book in the series, Kiss of A Demon King as soon as you can after reading Dark Desires. Each book makes the other better. We’ll cover female rage, sex shaming, fast cars, food, feminism and…maybe a pot joke? Also, Sarah waxes on about horns. A lot.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Kiss of A Demon King — the second in the duology, and the wrap up of the plot of this book. We’ve seen Rydstrom total his McLaren and get abducted by Sabine, who is not only Queen of Illusions but also his Fated Mate. DOUBLE TROUBLE. Cade and Holly are a HUGE part of our episode on Sabine & Rydstrom’s — because we just can’t talk about one of these books alone.
Get ready for the KoaDK read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
A quick primer to the verbs deposed, dethroned, defrocked, and usurped.
Groot the Metallurgist is not a cute dancing tree, but rather the half-brother of Omort the Deathless. This Groot has forged a sword that can kill Omort.
Jen went back to Dark Needs at Night's Edge and here is a screenshot of the scene where both Rydstrom and Cadeon choose their kingdom over their fated mates. Nix was not amused.
Romancing the Stone is a rather amazing 80s adventure movie that stars Kathleen Turner as a romance author who travels to Colombia, where she has to trade a treasure map to free her sister. The sequel is The Jewel of the Nile, but it's not as good.
Freya and Woden are two of the three parents to every valkyrie that is created.
Jen says Holly is "some bullshitty one thing away" from being done with her PhD, but the phrase she was looking for was ABD (All But Dissertation).
A MacGuffin is an object that drives the plot.
Women should not be treated like incubators.
Genetic (or biological) determinism is a problem.
For some reason, even with all the talk of eating and not eating, Jen and Sarah failed to bring up the myth of Persephone. #Fail.
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder isn't always portrayed well in the media. UPDATE: One of our listeners wrote this thoughtful thread on Holly's OCD and you should read it.
The phrase "Heavy is the head that wears the crown" is from Shakespeare.
Lobsters are always about love.
Instagram and Twitter horn talk.
One of our listeners painted an amazing portrait of Nix.
Along with that 50% more blood thing, pregnant bodies are kind of amazing.
Jen did some emergency research to find out about the etymology of sword, gladius (this video! lol), scabbard, and vagina.
A Bugatti Veyron is very sexy, very speedy, and very spendy. One of our listeners noticed that there is no mile marker 775 in Mississippi, but there is something special about Mississippi River mile marker 775.
The Stig read Sarah's book on Top Gear!
Groot and Omort are only one letter away, which maybe means nothing; but playing games with words is fun.
The Venn Diagram of what the author means vs. what English teachers think it means.
Jen loves groveling a lot.
420. I mean, that can't be an accident, right? Updated: On Instagram, follower Ellenino22 pointed out that 420 is "the smallest number divisible by 1-7." Whoa.
Literary Disco is a podcast with lots of great games.
Avon's KissCon will be in Chicago the first weekend of April 2019.
Everyone but Sarah should watch these videos of planes landing in high winds.
Kiss of a Demon King is going to be epic, so get ready.
Lost Limb Count
Legs (2)
Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night) ** Arms (1)**
Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked)
Eyes (2)
Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Cadeon loses an eye and part of his forehead and hair when fighting. It all regenerates. (Dark Desires After Dusk) ** Hands (2)**
Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
Cadeon has both of his hands burned off in the same scene where he loses an eye. There's description of what Cade's baby fingers look like as they are re-growing. It's...kinda gross. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
Horns (1)
- Cadeon files off his own horns in an attempt to win back Holly. She tells him to let them grow back. (Dark Desires After Dusk)
4.5: Curvy Heroines in Romance
Happy New Year, Fated Matesers (This isn’t a great name for us. We need a better name—someone name us)! We’re back, it’s 2019, new year, new us, and we’re starting as we mean to go on with Curvy Heroines, because, in the words of Julie Murphy, Every Body is a Swimsuit Body. Jen and I love a curvy heroine, and the men who love them, and so curvy romances are OUR FAVES.
Next week, we’re getting into Demons! We’ve met Cade, the prince of Rothkalina (the Rage Demonarchy) and his brother Rydstrom, its deposed King, before — they were in the Talisman’s Hie, and in Néomi & Conrad’s book. Next week, we tackle Cade & Holly’s story, Dark Desires After Dusk, with Rydstrom & Sabine’s book Kiss of a Demon King two weeks later. We highly recommend reading these two close together!
UPDATE 1/20/21 - We did it again! Don’t miss a brand new set of recommendations in S03.23 - Curvy Heroines Redux!
Show Notes
- In the summer of 2018, Jen and a bunch of people on Twitter discussed Nine Rules to Break While Romancing a Rake using the hashtag #9RulesRake.
- Sarah also has a curvy heroine romance that is coming in July! Brazen & the Beast has a gorgeous curvy heroine on the cover.
- Just a reminder that Jenny Crusie is completely awesome, and Bet Me is an amazing book.
- Courtney Milan has lots to say about romance. All of her books are amazing, but we talked about The Heiress Effect.
- Never Sweeter by Charlotte Stein was awareded the platinum medal in Jen's "Who Did It Better in the Library" post.
- Romancelandia often recommends books with curvy and fat heroines, and there are quite a few thoughtful pieces about how we think aobut these characters our ourselves.
- Naima Simone writes very excellent books and Jen & Sarah want this one right now.
- Olivia Dade is an advocate for fat women in romance, and Jen and Sarah both loved this thread and want to read books about all these heroines.
- Check out the full transcript for this episode.
TRANSCRIPT
Sarah MacLean 0:00
Okay, okay. Hi. You're listening to Fated Mates. This is Curvy Heroines Week.
Jen Prokop 0:07
I'm Jen Prokop, otherwise known as @JenReadsRomance and my fearless companion...
Sarah MacLean 0:13
Sarah MacLean. I like to write books, and I like to read books about curvy heroines. I like to write books about curvy heroines, too. I'm writing one right now, actually.
Jen Prokop 0:23
You've written many a great book about curvy heroines. And if you haven't read Nine Rules to Break When Romancing a Rake, you can start there.
Sarah MacLean 0:32
That's really nice.
Jen Prokop 0:34
I have, you know, I'll put in the show notes. The picture I gave it to my friend Elizabeth to read and she put it back on my desk at work, with a post-it note on it and it just said, "delicious".
Sarah MacLean 0:46
Oh, that's so, thank you, Elizabeth. That's very kind. But we're not talking about my book this week. That's all. That's the Sarah part of the show.
Jen Prokop 0:55
Yes.
Sarah MacLean 0:56
Jen. Why do we like curvy heroines so much?
Jen Prokop 1:01
Cuz I am a curvy heroine.
Sarah MacLean 1:03
Yeah, me too.
But besides just wanting to see yourself on the page, which is a valid reason.
Jen Prokop 1:09
Okay, so here's what it is for me, it's always back to who deserves and HEA, and I think there are so many ways in which our media celebrates beautiful women. And I like to see that all women are beautiful. All women deserve love. And that's it. I say that to people, I say this to my students all the time. You're going to fall in love one day and the person you fall in love with is going to be beautiful to you. And I think that books with curvy heroines, I don't know they just really hit that mark for me and we talked about your book but the other book that did it first and did it best for me was Bet Me.
Sarah MacLean 1:47
Jenny Crusie.
Jen Prokop 1:49
When I read that book the first time I just thought, I don't know, it just really it felt revelatory, and so talking about books with curvy heroines i think is near and dear to our heart. So you tell me why you think it's important.
Sarah MacLean 2:03
Well, I think you just sort of hit the nail on the head. I actually think that the best thing about curvy heroine romances is that they tend to hold a mirror up to all women and maybe just humans in general, but this sort of sense that even at our most flawed, even when we sort of look at ourselves and say, and see, we see all the parts of us that are wonky, somebody who loves us, just sees the most perfect person and the most beautiful parts of us. And that is a joy to read. And it's a joy to experience in life when you're with your friends or your loved ones. And that's why I love, that's why I love these books, but actually you bring up the Jenny Crusie's Bet Me makes me think like is it possible Bet Me was the first one because prior to Jenny, I mean, in the early days of romance, heroines were perfect. Like really, really perfect. Like every book had a knight hero who could span the heroines waist with his hands,
Jen Prokop 3:05
Right. His manly hand.
Sarah MacLean 3:07
I think I think Jenny might have been the first one. I'm going to do some research and figure that out. And we'll put it in show notes if we find something earlier than that, but could be.
Jen Prokop 3:16
Yeah, and maybe, maybe that's why but I mean, I read that book and remember thinking it changed me like something fundamentally changed in me when I read that.
Sarah MacLean 3:24
Well, do you think it was just that suddenly like romance heroines could be something else, could be more, different, better...
It just opened up a door and I think it opened up a door in my own brain too.
Sure. All right, you start.
Jen Prokop 3:36
okay. I'm going to start actually because I really liked what you said about like a curvy heroine, right, we see her through her own eyes, but also through society's eyes. And a book that I think plays with this brilliantly, is called The Heiress Effect by Courtney Milan. It's a historical, it's part of the Brothers Sinister series. And that's book number two, if you could read it as a stand-alone and I think this book is amazing. I don't know if you've read it, but I loved it.
I think this heroine, her name is Jane, is essentially using the way society views her as a weapon to fool society itself. I don't know that I've ever read anything like it. And so it is profoundly feminist. There's this really amazing scene at the beginning where she describes them trying to, like make her waist many inches smaller than it is by like using corsets. And I like flinched as I read it, but then she actually wears like really outrageous outlandish clothes and she does it, like she realizes they don't think she's beautiful, that they mock her, and that she's going to use that against them to essentially like escape their notice because she has a huge dowry of 100,000 pounds, and she does not want to get married. And so she is playing this game where she's using their perception of them as a way essentially of making herself, like she's it's like at one point the hero realizes she's essentially acting like a butterfly right like she's beautiful and wearing bright colors and it but it's poisonous. And I just think this book, along with having this amazing curvy heroine, one of the smartest heroines, this amazing hero, the cast of characters, the social justice aspect of it. The hero sister. Her name is her name is free. She's like vote fighting for voting rights and the whole book is just from top to bottom, just a real treat. And so the other thing I liked about it is it Jane is clearly a curvy heroine and a Oliver loves her. It's the kind of woman he likes, but it's not the most important thing about who she is. And we and Oliver come and she herself come to see that about her about her.
Sarah MacLean 5:50
Courtney, if you've never read a book by Courtney, this is a really good place to start actually, Courtney does so many things beautifully, but the thing that always comes back to me with Courtney's books. The heroes are always so incredibly Noble.
Jen Prokop 6:04
Oh, yeah.
Sarah MacLean 6:05
They act with such strong conviction. And they know what's right. Capital r. They will do everything to make sure that they behave in that way. But they move the world they moved the needle toward that.
Jen Prokop 6:20
Oh, it's so good. Well, and I'll tell you what the other thing about this is this is a book that we've talked about, like the setup, right? Like so Courtney like sets up this whole thing where essentially the hero is supposed to take her down, and I sort of thought, Oh, hi know where this is going. I did not know where it was going at all. And it was like their struggle to be the best versions of themselves, both for themselves, and for each other. This book is perfect. I loved it.
Sarah MacLean 6:49
You should read a book by Courtney Milan.
Jen Prokop 6:51
Absolutely. What about you, Sarah?
Sarah MacLean 6:54
I'm going to talk about a different kind of hero. A very, very different kind of hero, who is not, does not move toward an nobility instantly. So I want to talk about Charlotte Stein. I want to talk about Charlotte Stein basically every day.
Jen Prokop 7:11
All day.
Sarah MacLean 7:12
All the time. If you've never read a book by Charlotte, you absolutely need to rectify that
Jen Prokop 7:16
and probably clear an entire day of your schedule because once you start you will not be able to stop
Sarah MacLean 7:23
you will just buy every Charlotte sign book one after another, and it will just you'll lose your day to great delicious joy. Because the best way for me to describe how Charlottewrites a book is It's like watching two people fall in love inside a phone booth while you're in it with them.
Jen Prokop 7:42
Oh my god, that's so perfect.
Sarah MacLean 7:44
And you're just like, it's too much. It's too much to watch and I feel weird about watching it but I can't stop like it's just
Jen Prokop 7:53
right.
Sarah MacLean 7:53
You're just in there. And these two deeply imperfect people Charlotte has never written a perfect character. I think in any of her books.
Jen Prokop 8:01
but she might be a perfect writer
Sarah MacLean 8:02
For sure. I think Charlotte is one of the very best writers writing today. She's such a writer's writer. I feel like every writer I speak to acknowledges we all just wish we could write like Charlotte.
Jen Prokop 8:14
It must be intimidating. I've actually I'm like, I just get to read it and be like, this is amazing. I can't even imagine like imposter syndrome must take over all of you when you read her book.
Sarah MacLean 8:23
Anytime I read a book by Charlotte, I end up thinking to myself, like, well, there goes three weeks of me sitting around feeling bad about myself.
Jen Prokop 8:34
But I want it I don't I mean, anyway, so I can't say enough good things, obviously, about Charlotte. But this book is called Never Sweeter. And you guys,
I know I just like fell over. It's so good.
Sarah MacLean 8:46
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna do the setup. And you're gonna go Oh, Sarah, I don't know. So the premise is, it's setting College and the heroine who is very curvy in high school was relentlessly bullied by a group of boys to the point where she is run off the road and down a pretty dangerous cliff by these boys who are who are torturing her with bullying, and there's no good reason why she's just like all bully, there's no good reason why. And she's run off the road. And that's the beginning of the book. And then immediately we cut to her in college, and she goes into a class and sitting inside in the class is one of her bullies. And he is there to make amends. She's horrified. She's terrified. She's all the emotions that you would be. She wants away from him. She wants out of this, this entire world. But he is there and he's in college with her and he wants to apologize. He wants to make it right. And they fall in love. And it is
Jen Prokop 10:05
it's amazing.
Sarah MacLean 10:06
So incredible, because the whole time in your head you're thinking, no, absolutely not. This is not acceptable. And the whole time. I mean, Charlotte just writes this hero who just is working so hard to rectify the past. And this heroine who just is so strong because she's so able to tell him "no", and she's still able to resist it until she realizes that maybe there is something more than resistance. And I don't know I think I'm doing a bad job describing it but I think it's
Jen Prokop 10:44
No you're not
Sarah MacLean 10:45
so beautiful.
I read a book a day, right? I mean, I've read 10,000 that's not an exaggeration, romance novels in my lifetime. And I think it is rare that you can come across a book where you just you can't see how the writer is going to finish it. The whole time you're doubting that it's even possible to do it to pull it off and then somehow Charlotte just does and it's beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful romances I think ever written.
Jen Prokop 11:16
I think so too and I think that the curvy heroine part I would say, it's really essential to Lenny's character I think because like when they talk right when they become friends first is that he says I didn't want you going through the world thinking that everyone was going to treat you that way. And I think it's like metaphorically it's some level to like how fat people are treated in the world. Right like we're we're sort of like look away and and I think there's something really beautiful about his love for her is so pure and again, it's like that same thing we talked about when you talked about escort books, right? Everyone deserves love, like your physical package should have nothing to do with like whether or not you are deserving of someone loving you profoundly and deeply and I think this book at every single, every single layer does that so well. That's amazing.
Okay, so my final one is way lighter, a jaunt really but we know we have to come right out of the deep well that Never Sweeter will will put you in and all of Charlotte's books really but I love a book like really love in a way like I don't know every single bell rings on my belt. It's called Playing It Cool by Amy Andrews and it's a part of a whole series all the like playing at whatever books are part of a series about Sydney rugby team, which I know nothing about rugby, but I've really liked all these books and the main character is a guy named Dexter and it actually starts off with him. And all of his like sort of buddies on his rugby team are basically like, hey, there's your kind of girl on the sidelines, because she's like a bigger curvier woman and her...her name is Harper and...
Sarah MacLean 12:58
can I just interrupt and say Love that moment in this book we're like you're not because we have talked a lot about curvy heroines who are feel uncomfortable in their skin and you know, God knows that's real but there's something remarkable when in the first moment of the book like a huge an entire rugby team is like that one
Jen Prokop 13:19
that Yeah, like there's your kind of girl and I remember being like but wait like I literally I think I went back and reread it like wait a minute, is that what I think it means that they all know that he he likes curvy women and they see one and they're like, there she is the one for you. I love this book was really great and, and what happens is they end up dating they end up like falling in love but because he is so fixated on rugby, like his sort of like you know, I only have this short I'm a professional athlete and my time on this team is going to be short so I don't really have time for like serious like a serious girlfriend like that's just going to mess me up. They sort of have this like low key like where she starts thinking that he's keeping her under wraps. And she's like, Is it because of the way I look? And he's like, no, it's because I really just wanted to focus on rugby. And you know, there's this amazing scene though, at the end. And I think this is also part of why I love this book. I don't think it's super spoilery where she goes to it, they go to a benefit, and they go separately, and she is dressed in this like knockout dress. And every man in the room can see how beautiful she is. And it is killing Dexter because he knows like, you know, he's like, everyone now sees what I've seen all along. And I just this book, like really worked for me at every level. I think, you know, the camaraderie between Dexter and his team. The affair between the two of them per work is like a muralist and her insistence that she deserves to have someone who loves her. Absolutely, and she doesn't need to be second best to anybody's job. I don't care if it's rugby or not. Basically and she I just love this book. I loved everything about it.
Sarah MacLean 15:03
Yeah, it's a great read.
Jen Prokop 15:05
And it's like, it's like a fun read, right? Like, it's not really serious, you know, but I just think it's like a great fun read with like, here's a curvy heroine who is like, I deserve more. And hero has to be like, Yes, you're right, dear. What do you need for me?
Sarah MacLean 15:17
Also, I think sports heroes in that moment are pretty great. Like the dichotomy between like the super sporty like celebrity hero and the normal girl who you know,
Jen Prokop 15:30
right
Sarah MacLean 15:30
looks like a normal person is really delicious. Always. That's why books like the wall of winning pegan me work so well. You know, because there is that sort of literal body perfection versus just ordinary everyday.
Jen Prokop 15:44
Right. And I one of the things I love is the authors who make space for women to feel the way they feel about their bodies and to know they deserve love and that they're going to get it right that romance is going to deliver that to them. That's really essential and important to me.
Sarah MacLean 16:00
So, my last book is kind of an older title. It is the first Bela Andre book I ever read. It's called take me and fun fact. I loved this book so much that I then went to the RWA national conference. And I like stalked Bella into and forced her to be my friend. And now we are friends. But I love take me so much. This is the same kind of I mean, you you guys are going to get a real sense of the kind of heroine curvy heroine I look for but the heroine of this book has been best friends with one half of a set of like ridiculously attractive twins for her whole life. Since they were four or five years old, and her best friend has always been her best friend and his twin brother has always been sort of aloof and not really present in her life and not really showing much interest in her, and she of course has had like this crazy unrequited crush on him forever. And I love an unrequited love story. I love unrequited love. Yeah, it's good. And so essentially what happens is she suddenly like so he's, you know, a millionaire. This was in the ages of millionaires, you guys, this predates billionaire,
Jen Prokop 17:23
Do better.
Sarah MacLean 17:25
And he's this sort of like Star millionaire, amazing, you know, all around person. And they end up but she's an interior decorator and he's a he's a developer, real estate guy. And he takes her he hires her basically to help decorate a client's house. And it becomes really clear, really quickly. I think early in the book, there's like a drinking mishap and then there's like an almost sex moment and then becomes very clear very quickly that like he's had feelings for her for a long time. And he ends up flying her to Italy to like shop for stuff for...
Jen Prokop 18:11
For his like mansion or whatever.
Sarah MacLean 18:14
Yeah, and so they fly to Tuscany and they have this like incredible weekend Tuscany and she the whole time she's like at some point the other shoe is gonna drop in this like fantasy that I have fallen into with this guy who I've been in love with for my whole life. It's just going to fall apart because he's never dated anybody who isn't like size double zero. And then she sort of sabotages it just by virtue of not believing in herself, and it's so real, like it's so painfully real because he's like, I can't convince you of what I see. And until you're able to see what I see, I don't know how to be with you. I don't know how to make this work and it is real honest. And you know, I think this is the thing that a lot of people do like we naturally as humans sabotage relationships because of lots of reasons and this is it just felt so authentic and I still to this day I love bellus books so much so many of them I love but this one still to me is like the perfect Bella Andre book.
Jen Prokop 19:17
Well and I think that's the other thing that any imperfection that any character has to deal with but especially body image issues really are about self acceptance and I think that's why it's it's not enough for your romantic partner to accept you the good books the best books are then about "I accept myself" and I think that's why they really like hit you right in the heart because all of us are working on ourselves. And and i think that all books have characters working on themselves, but somehow this struggle, really, maybe it just speaks to me personally, but when it's good, it's it's a book I just really love and they stay in rotation. And I've read and read read them and have them in multiple formats. And that's when I know it's like a real keeper for me.
Sarah MacLean 20:07
Yeah. So shout out your favorite curvy heroines. Tell us on twitter hashtag #fatedmatespod. Don't forget that if you'd like us to tackle a trope for you, you should let us know. And we will do with pleasure.
Jen Prokop 20:22
So, if you are enjoying our podcast, we would love for you to subscribe to it. Give us a rating and share it with your friends online on Facebook, on Twitter, in the coffee shop wherever you might be talking about your favorite podcast.
Sarah MacLean 20:38
Okay, everyone, well, that was curvy girls. If you are a writer out there thinking about writing a curvy romance, please do. We need more of them. I saw Naima Simone tweeted about one a couple of days ago and I'm super excited for that one. Naima, write faster.
Next week. We are back to IAD and we are on book number five. And the demons are coming you guys I'm so excited. The first book is Dark Desires After Dusk, which is Cade & Holly's book as you know we've met Cade and rods from his deposed King or dethroned King. I don't know. I don't know what the word is will sort it out before that episode. But we've met him twice. He was part of the Hie with Bowen and Mari, and he is a pretty significant piece of this Neomi and Conrad book, The Neomi and Conrad book, which we did last week. So we've got Cade and Holly up first. It's a road trip romance, and it's one that we have a lot to say about. But here's what I'm going to say because now we've finished recording both Cade and Rydstom's books.
And Jen and I think that you should probably read them both back to back if you can. If you have the time, because Rydstrom and Sabine's book, which is Kiss of a Demon King, and Cade & Holly's book, which is--what did I just say?--Dark Desires After Dusk--work in concert with each other. They're overlapping for quite a bit of time. And I think that once you've read both, both books get better.
So we are back next week with Cade and Holly's book and they still intend to release Rydstrom & Sabine's episode in two weeks after that. So there's plenty of time for your reading in order. Real life real time IAD readers were reading them six or eight months apart, so you'll be fine. We just think that you might like it better if you read them both back to back. And we have a lot to say about both of these books and there's a whole lot of conversation coming about horns and we have a special guest for Sabine and Rydstrom's book who's got a great story, and you're going to love it.
So yay! Thanks for joining us again for Fated Mates. We're super excited to have you always. If you are enjoying the podcast, don't forget to subscribe and like and review and tell your friends. Tell your mom or whoever else you would like to tell about us.
Thanks so much, guys.
4: A+, Would Risk Haunting: Dark Needs at Night's Edge
Book 4 is here and so are ghosts! We’re talking Dark Needs at Night's Edge, starring Conrad (the most tortured of the Wroth vampire brothers) and Néomi (the ghost trapped in the house where he’s held hostage while he dries out). We’ll cover heroines with agency, menstrual cycles, virgin heroes and the importance of family. Also, Jen is on about the moon again.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcasting platform — and while you’re there, please leave us a like or a review.
Our next read (in two weeks) will be Dark Desires After Dusk — the beginning of the Rage-Demonarchy duology, featuring Cadeon Woede, who is forced to choose between familial loyalty and his human (or is she?!) fated mate, brilliant mathematician, Holly.
Get ready for the read along at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books or your local indie. Also, the Audible versions of IAD are on sale right now -- and WORTH EVERY PENNY! Listen on Audio!
Show Notes
- Ghosts are a human problem and preoccupation.
- According to the Washington Post, "nearly half of the women who were murdered during the past decade were killed by a current or former intimate partner." Huge content warnings for everything in this article.
- The Flame and the Flower, Shanna, and some of Sarah's thoughts about rape in romance.
- We talk about Id a lot on Fated Mates, and we use it as a shorthand for our most primal, deep-rooted desires.
- "All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" is the famous first line of Anna Karenina. This New York Times article about the many Tolstoy translations is fascinating.
- Kresley Cole isn't the only one to use the menstrual cycle as a symbol; but others wonder why menstruation is almost always absent from fiction.
- A crescent moon (or "sliver moon" as Neomi calls it) is never up at midnight. Literally never.
- Jen rants a lot about first person narration a lot on Twitter, but it's super OTT, so just read this thread about first person narration that was started by Rebekah Weatherspoon.
- Shortly after they recoreded this episode, Jonathan Franzen stanned for third person narration and Jen realized she's just a handmaiden to the patriarchy.
- Jen strongly recommends Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon. She saw Kiese Laymon being interviewed by Lolly Bowean at the Chicago Humanities Festival, and it was amazing.
- All people deserve birth control that's right for them.
- Some romance readers love breaking in the ponies with a virgin hero.
- Arguably, agency is the most important character trait.
- There are 45 cemetaries in New Orleans, 31 are historic, and 5 are listed in the National Register of Historic Places.
- If you're planning to write a sitcom, know the formula.
- In IAD, it's Thrane's Key; it Harry Potter, it's a time turner.
- Get yourself some IAD ringtones.
- Holly Ashwin and Cadeon Woede are up next in Dark Desires After Dusk.
Lost Limb Count
Legs (2)
- Lachlain tears off his own leg to reach Emma. He regenerates. (A Hunger Like No Other)
- Mariketa's skull is fractured and her leg is torn from her body. She heals herself after Bowen lays on the ground. Ivy grows over her and heals her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Arms (1)
Sebastian pulverizes most of his right arm during the Hie. He regenerates. (No Rest For the Wicked) ** Eyes (1)**
Bowen loses an eye and most of his forehead during the Hie. Mariketa has cursed him and he can't heal until he returns to her. (Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night)
Hands (1)
- Conrad cuts off his own hand with a rusty axe so he escape the "witched" chains his brothers locked him in. (Dark Needs at Night's Edge)
Horns, Claws, or Wolf Hologram: An AMA with Sarah & Jen
It’s the holidays, and whether you’re the type to hole up on the couch and read, or go for a long walk to escape, we’ve got you covered. Get ready; we’re talking about horns.
Show Notes
- Update: Jen got THREE books for Christmas this year! These two from her brother, and her best friend gives perfect, #onbrand books. Sarah got Thomas Madden's Venice and the Great British Bake Off coloring book. Does that count as a book?
- Sarah loves The Great British Baking Show, so you should watch. Or maybe you would just like to admire silver-fox, Paul Hollywood.
-Here's a 1979 New York Times article about this new craze sweeping the nation: hand-raised pies. Everthing old is new again in Sarah's house!
- Jen no longer has the decorative wooden book item, but she does like to window shop for glass jars full of...things.
- "You can put your weed in there" is an old SNL joke.
- Gatsby's books are a symbol, but maybe more than you wanted to know about how books are put together and how pages are cut.
- Read some more AMAs if you're in the mood, and you know Jen can't wait to read that first one.
- Strawberry Rhubarb pie is Sarah's favorite, and although Jen didn't mention it, a favorite pie she makes every summer is Strawberry Margarita pie.
- Our favorite pie shops in Houston, Northern Michigan, Chicago, and Brooklyn.
- Charlotte Stein and Sophie Jordan are auto-buys, and A Kingdom of Dreams and Dreaming of Youare comfort reads. Sarah's most re-read IAD book is Sweet Ruin, and Jen's is Demon from the Dark.
- Kresley announced in her newsletter a few months ago that the next IAD book is Munro (he's Uilleam's twin brother).
- It's not only romance where we talk about unlikable heroines, but it's also that we only ask women authors if their female characters are likable.
- A quick overview of Gender essentalism.
- A very long twitter thread where all of Romancelandia picked their IAD dream cast.
- Olivia Dade made a list of cinnamon roll heroes.
- The ultimate romance rule is HEA or GTFO (Happily Ever After or Get the Fuck Out). There's also HFN, or Happy For Now. Here's the rest of Jen's Romance Rules.
- More about the the problematic fave
- Your Kink is Not my Kink, a very useful way to be respectful when something just isn't your jam. Also, Sarah would like to remind you that decent people don't yuck other people's yum.
- Jen could write odes to the arms of Linda Hamilton and Angela Basset forever.
- We'll be ringing in 2019 with Neomi and Conrad.
