S03.22: For Real by Alexis Hall: Jen had to Google Some Things
It’s 2021, and we’re back on the reading train with one of Sarah’s favorite erotic romances ever, Alexis Hall’s For Real. We dig into sex on the page, how sex and identity work together to make an erotic romance an erotic romance, power dynamics, and the difference between fear & risk. Enjoy!
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order here!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we’re returning to Curvy Girls for an interstitial, and then we’re headed on to Naima Simone’s Blackout Billionaires series! In order, the books are: The Billionaire's Bargain, Black Tie Billionaire, and Blame It on the Billionaire. Find them at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, or Apple Books.
Show Notes
We won Georgia, but then white supremacist terrorists attacked the Capitol. If you want to talk to your kids, here are some suggestions from Facing History and Ourselves, this is a resource for teachers but I think any parent with tweens and teens will find it helpful. If you have little kids, Jen’s friend Elisa is a children’s librarian and recommend the books When a Bully is President and What We Believe: A Black Lives Matter Principles Activity Book.
Answering machines don’t exist anymore. (Well, they probably do, but no one we know uses them.)
For Real won the 2016 RITA for Best Erotic romance, and Alexis Hall wrote a blog entry about it.
Fear vs. Risk, the short version. Or maybe you want to read whole book about fear, called Nerve by Eva Holland. Jen knows Eva from another online space, but they've never met in person.
Bluebeard’s attic had some things Jen had to google.
Eric Selinger is a romance guy, but also a poetry guy at DePaul. Jen took a workshop with Eric a million years ago (before she started doing romance stuff), and the guy who said “poetry is a laboratory for sentences” was poet Baron Wormser, author of the best book Jen’s ever read about teaching and learning poetry, A Surge of Language.
Jen was thinking about what happens when romance authors are forced to read the sex scenes instead of the feelings scenes, like when Stacey Abrams on Stephen Colbert.
Sarah talked about chastity belts at the end, and we here at Fated Mates strongly advise against giving the internet the power over your chastity belts and cock cages. SAFETY FIRST!
Derek Craven Day is coming, do you have you merch ready? T-shirts and buttons and listen to our discussion of Dreaming of You, of course.
S03.21: An Interview with Sex Columnist Sophia Benoit: Prom is Cancelled
This week, we’re thrilled to be joined by the fabulous Sophia Benoit, sex columnist for GQ magazine and romance novel lover! We talk about romance, about why it’s so hard to talk about sex in the world, about the books Sophia has written and is planning to write, and about Jimmy Butler. Because, obviously.
Happy New Year!
Next week is our first read along of 2021, Alexis Hall’s For Real! Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
Welcome GQ sex columnist, Sophia Benoit. She’s absolutely great on twitter and writes an amazing advice column, which is available as a Substack. Her book of essays, Well, That Was Exhausting will be out in the summer of 2021.
The Sex and the City reference, of course, it to Carrie Bradshaw’s job as a dating columnist.
America has a sex education problem.
Lollapalooza is very fun and the music is great and every time she’s attended, it has made Jen feel like she’s a million years old.
Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina has a famous first line, but the rest of it is very long.
HoCo, FauxCo, and Prom is Cancelled.
If you’re looking for paranormal, all of season one is a read-along of the Immortals After Dark series by Kresley Cole.
The Tom Selleck and Burt Reynolds mustaches of the 80s were quite a thing. And if you look at the original covers of romances from that time, you'll see them in action.
Reddit’s Am I the Asshole (AITA) is a cultural touchstone for so many people.
We are adding Jimmy Butler to our list of favorite athletes, which started with Jurgen Klopp. Here is a bunch of Jimmy Butler information for you: about the trade from The Bulls, about his minivan, about his love of country music, about his coffee company, about his teamwork, and about his fashion sense. The third member of the Fated Mates sports team is Ted Lasso.
Next week, we’ll be reading For Real by Alexis Hall.
Jessa Kane New Year's Eve Extravaganza
WELCOME 2021!
As is customary on Fated Mates, we’re releasing a special New Year’s Eve episode that requires headphones if you’re in mixed company! We brought some of our most favorite people together for a very special crossover episode of Fated Mates and Andie J. Christopher’s Instagram TV Juggernaut: Drunk Romance History, during which we drink a delightful mix of alcohol and talk about a delightful mix of erotic romance by the queen of the quick and dirty novella—Jessa Kane.
We’re talking priests and daddy kink, mafia hitmen, billionaires, husky heroes, stepbrothers and what Joanna Shape refers to as the Kane-Trope-Wheel. Tracey Livesay has a mug with penises on it. Bring in 2021 right. (Also, if you, like Joanna and Jen have read all of the Jessa Kane’s, no worries! She released a new one today—BURLY—just in time for this episode! Shero!)
Head over to Andie’s IGTV channel for the video version.
Next week, we have a special guest episode, and in two weeks, our first read along of 2021, Alexis Hall’s For Real. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
One more chance for phone-banking is Monday 1/4/2021 at 5pm central.
Listen to last year's New Year's Eve epsiode on Pegging with special guest, Sierra Simone!
Have we mentioned Drunk Romance History on Andie's Instagram?
We are joined today by our friends: Andie Christopher, Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera, LaQuette, Tracey Livesay, Nisha Sharma, and Joanna Shupe.
Get Tracey's penis mug here.
Normalize sex toys. Today's guests are big fans of LELO products and recommend: The Ora2, The Sona2, and The Gigi2.
Jessa Kane: Starter Level
The Two Ps, One V Level
The Daddy Level
The Voyeur Level
He’s a Big, Big Man Level
He’s a Bad, Bad Man Level
Books from our Guests
Jennifer Prokop 0:04 / #
Sarah, it's New Year's Eve and you know what that means?
Sarah MacLean 0:06 / #
We have what like, six hours till 2021! We've just got to hold it down you guys.
Jennifer Prokop 0:13 / #
Some of our listeners are already living in that 2021 future.
Sarah MacLean 0:17 / #
My God, is that amazing? Report in Australia, India, Russia! Hello anyway, but what are we doing, because we don't usually release on a Thursday?
Jennifer Prokop 0:31 / #
No, we certainly do not! But it is New Year's Eve. What we do usually do though, around New Year's Eve is release an episode that is going to be the flat out dirtiest one of the year.
Jennifer Prokop 0:43 / #
I don't know the first year, maybe we weren't on this train. But last year, we released our pegging episode, which is probably one of our best episodes ever.
Sarah MacLean 0:50 / #
Aside from 50 shades. I'm pretty sure that episode is our most popular episode.
Sarah MacLean 0:54 / #
And why not? Why would it not be?
Jennifer Prokop 0:58 / #
Start your new year with a new resolution? Try new things. So, we were talking...
Sarah MacLean 1:05 / #
No, you weren't there!
Jennifer Prokop 1:05 / #
So tell us what happened.
Sarah MacLean 1:07 / #
I have a group of friends. You know a lot of them because they've been on the podcast. And we were having a holiday drink via zoom. And during this holiday drink via zoom, and one of those people is Andie Christopher, who is running an Instagram Live fun thing every Saturday called Drunk Romance History, where people drink and then talk about an old romance novel that is bananas. And that's extremely fun. And you should go watch all of them on her Instagram feed. Anyway, so as we were talking, we got into a discussion of Jessa Kane, who we've not talked about, I don't think, on the pod even when we did those quick and dirty episode.
Jennifer Prokop 1:47 / #
I think we mentioned one of them on the mafia interstitial.
Jennifer Prokop 1:52 / #
It's because it's really like a erotica. It's not really quite erotic romance.
Sarah MacLean 1:56 / #
I also feel like we came to Jessica Kane a little later. Because when we did the quick and dirty episode, the fact that we did not reference her would be just very remiss, but maybe we weren't reading her then. I don't know. But the point is, she's very quick and very dirty. And so we started talking about how she really does like, she sort of takes the finger constantly. Like there's just there's no, there's no level of Jessa Kanedom that you can get to where it feels like it's too much.
Sarah MacLean 2:28 / #
It takes the finger and puts it everywhere a finger could go.
Sarah MacLean 2:31 / #
Indeed she does.
Sarah MacLean 2:32 / #
And so we you know, we're drinking at the time, and we were laughing and there was some suggestions and somebody suggested, "Oh, Andie, you should do a just Kane episode of drunk romance history." And I said, "Well, what if we recorded a big zoom conversation about Jesss Kane and our respective favorite books, or the first book we read? Some of them were Jessa Kane virgins. And we all came together this week to record what was an extremely fun zoom about Jessa Kane. It is a crossover episode. So you are about to get Fated Mates - slash - Drunk Romance History. So you can hear the audio right here in your earholes. And then if you want to see LaQuette's face, which is very worth worth watching, to be honest, you can head over to Andie's Instagram account, which is @authorAndieJ. And we'll put links in show notes and you can watch the video version of this very fun hour and a half. As we did last year with the pegging episode, we're going to drop this early in the evening. So if you are staying safe, and masked, and solo New Year's Eve style, you have many hours and many Jessa Kane books to get through.
Jennifer Prokop 3:58 / #
One last serious order of business before we turn it over. It is New Year's Eve. On Monday, which is January 4, we are doing our last Fated States phonebank for Ossoff Warnock with the indivisible team. It will be from five to seven Central, I will drop the link to sign up and show notes. And this is our last big push everybody. A huge number of voters have already voted in Georgia. I will be honest, last time we phonebanked, we talked to a lot of people who said, "I already voted." And so it feels great to just hear all those Georgia voters who have already done their part and maybe we'll catch somebody who hasn't. So if you are looking for one last way to turn this ship we call democracy around, we would love to have you with us phone banking on Monday night
Sarah MacLean 4:45 / #
And if you're in Georgia, vote your Ossoff. I love that phrase.
Jennifer Prokop 4:51 / #
It's actually great.
Sarah MacLean 4:57 / #
I wish there was a vote your Warnock but that's not a thing. Yeah, that doesn't mean anything, but vote your Warnock too. We love you guys. Happy New Year. Thanks for being with us through 2020 it really made the big a big difference for us to have you and to know that you were out there listening. And 2021, is it's gonna be great. I feel great about it. Me too. I got a feeling 21 is going to be a good year. Wait a second. Eric. That's a song.
Music Lyric 5:28 / #
Got a feeling 21 is gonna be a good year. Especially for you and me, seeing it together. So you think 21 is gonna be a good year. Could be good for me and Herman
Andie Christopher 5:50 / #
Drunk Fated Mates?
Nisha Sharma 5:55 / #
Me? I like it.
Sarah MacLean 5:58 / #
It kind of began with Drunk Mates. So, Andie Christopher, why don't you tell everybody what they won. Oh, wait, wait, Hang on. Hang on. Eric wants to check. Oh, okay. All right. We're good. We're good to go. We've been approved.
Adriana Herrera 6:19 / #
Thank you, Eric
Andie Christopher 6:21 / #
This group, I think minus Jen. Jen wasn't able to join us, got drunk a couple of weeks ago to celebrate all the Sagittarius birthdays. And we got to talking about some of our favorite bananas books. And one author that I think most of us discovered this year during the quarantine, is the prolific, the filthy, the bananas, Jessa Kane. And so we thought it would be fun to do a crossover Drunk Romance History/ Fated Mates episode about Jessa Kane in general. Yes. And so some of us are have read all of the Jessa Kanes. Some of us have read some of the Jessa Kanes. Some of us had read like one of the Jessa Kanes
Sarah MacLean 7:19 / #
New to Jessa Kane.
Andie Christopher 7:24 / #
And so we're coming together to just talk about our love affair with these with these books that. I mean,
Jennifer Prokop 7:34 / #
they really defy description in some ways, don't they?
Andie Christopher 7:37 / #
They really do. I mean, they're a shot of ID right into your veins.
Sarah MacLean 7:42 / #
On her website, I just went to her website because I wanted to be an actual professional tonight and have something to say about Jessa Kane. There is no information about her on her website. So whoever you are, thanks for playing! Jessa we love you.
Adriana Herrera 7:55 / #
There's a burner phone feel to it. And I love it.
Sarah MacLean 8:00 / #
Her website says Jessa Kane, and underneath it says "satisfying."
Adriana Herrera 8:09 / #
That's all you need to know.
Sarah MacLean 8:12 / #
That is a flex. She's like, I just have this is the word.
Andie Christopher 8:16 / #
Okay, so so we should all identify yourselves. Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 8:19 / #
Can I call it? Can I call the fucking group to order please? We've gotta do this thing. Okay, so Hi, I'm Jen ReadsRomance. And we are doing a Fated Mates Drunk romance podcast crossover. And we have a group of people with us. So let's have everybody introduce themselves quickly and say, if they think your commentary tonight is stellar and amazing, perhaps they would like to read your book. So tell us more about who you are.
Sarah MacLean 8:49 / #
Well, Jen, there's There are six of them. Okay, you're gonna call on them.
Jennifer Prokop 8:53 / #
Okay, I think that's best I'm gonna call on people. Ok, Alexis, you're first.
Alexis Daria 8:59 / #
I'm Alexis Daria. I write contemporary romance. My latest release is YOU HAD ME AT HOLA. and I'm in New York City. So you might hear some honking
Sarah MacLean 9:09 / #
Wait, and I also think you need to tell everybody where on the Kane spectrum you are...
Andie Christopher 9:16 / #
We need to know that.
Alexis Daria 9:19 / #
Due to the quarantine, my focus is shot so I've been having a hard time just sitting down and reading books lately, so I mostly do audiobooks. So I've only read one Jessa Kane book in full, but I've started a couple others and I have more on my Kindle.
Jennifer Prokop 9:33 / #
Jenny Nordbak, I think has done some audio for Jessica Kane and Jenny Nordbak's voice is like one sex on a stick. She's the wicked wallflowers podcast cohost, so I don't know if she's done all of them. I think she talked about what doing one maybe it's not out yet. I'm not sure so all of you who think oh, could Jessa Kane be sexier. [editorial note: Jen was wrong. Jenny recoreded a Brill Harper book on audio]
Sarah MacLean 9:56 / #
When Jenny reads it. When Miss Scarlet reads it.
Jennifer Prokop 10:01 / #
Exactly. So there you go. I can't, I don't even know if I could listen to it. I think it would, literally I'd have to like... well, you know, I probably could listen to it. it's fine.
Alexis Daria 10:09 / #
Okay, nice listening while I'm washing the dishes.
Jennifer Prokop 10:11 / #
See there you go.
Nisha Sharma 10:15 / #
Hi, everyone. This is Nisha Sharma. I'm back on the pod. My book, THE LEGAL AFFAIR came out in August and pre orders for my second YA, RADHA 7 JAI'S RECIPE FOR ROMANCE are also available. And that comes out in July.
Jennifer Prokop 10:35 / #
And where are you on the Kane scale?
Nisha Sharma 10:36 / #
I'm probably in the middle of the road. I have about, I've finished about five or six Jessa Kane books. And I have to clear my Kindle Unlimited list in order to get the rest of them. So right now it's very dramatic. I'm trying to figure out what I have to like offload in order to download more.
Sarah MacLean 11:00 / #
And this is the problem with that Kindle Unlimited list is you have to be like: am I really ever going to read that thing? Because I want to read HUSKY...
Adriana Herrera 11:08 / #
...or HEFTY.
Jennifer Prokop 11:15 / #
Again, they do let you check out Kindle unlimited books again, everybody.
Sarah MacLean 11:21 / #
But it does feel like Nisha and I are on the same page here, which is once it goes off the list, It's never coming back. Jen probably has a spreadsheet. She's been on, you've been on the phone with Amazon all day yelling at them about...
Jennifer Prokop 11:37 / #
I don't really want to talk about it. That's fine.
Sarah MacLean 11:40 / #
That's private.
Jennifer Prokop 11:42 / #
No, it just wasn't helpful. And then you just feel like you're gaslit by Amazon. And so I had let it go.
Andie Christopher 11:46 / #
It sounds less satisfying than my experience,m spending two hours on the phone with Verizon today just on hold.
Jennifer Prokop 11:54 / #
No, that's not great. At least with that, Because then you can do other things and then kind of leave when it's...
Andie Christopher 12:01 / #
no, I was I was peeing when Verizon finally picked up. So I had to run out of my bathroom.
Jennifer Prokop 12:08 / #
Of course
Andie Christopher 12:09 / #
running across the floor to get the phone.
Jennifer Prokop 12:11 / #
I know you introduced yourself, but I think you can talk again about what book you have out, and your place on the Kane spectrum.
Andie Christopher 12:17 / #
Okay, so I'm again I'm Andie J. Christopher. I am the host of the Instagram Live series probably soon to be podcast, Drunk Romance History. My latest book that I have out-- I put out two books this year, I'm very proud of that. NOT THAT KIND OF GUY came out in April. It is a workplace romance and oops, we got married. There's definitely banging, not as much as the Jessie Kane book. But there's banging and then I have a short, if you're still interested in a little holiday novella, I have a very dirty holiday novella called ALL THEY WANT FOR CHRISTMAS, which is a Snowed-in, MMF bang fest. if you're a fan of Jessa you're going to be a fan of ALL THEY WANT FOR CHRISTMAS.
Jennifer Prokop 13:03 / #
Well speaking of filthy Christmas shorts. I guess we should go to Adrianna, next.
Adriana Herrera 13:12 / #
Hi. Hello. I'm Adriana Herrera, and I write romance. So my release is HER NIGHT WITH SANTA, which is a very short, very dirty novelette about a lesbian, female Santa who hooks up with King Melchior's neice on a secret beach villa in the Caribbean.
Jennifer Prokop 13:36 / #
And a bag of toys.
Adriana Herrera 13:37 / #
And then yes, and a bag of toys.
Andie Christopher 13:41 / #
It's so hot. You guys. It is is scorchingly hot.
Adriana Herrera 13:45 / #
It is what happens with when I go into my head. When I go into my head, there are sex toys. And there's Megan Rapinoe.
Sarah MacLean 13:55 / #
I think Adriana knows this already. But this week, obviously we have we have been through Christmas in my house with the seven year old. And I told her that I read this book where the theory about Santa is that it's a family of Santas, and the current Santa is a woman. And she's like, "That's amazing. Tell me more." And I'm like, "that's all I can tell you about that."
Jennifer Prokop 14:21 / #
And where are you on the Kane scale, Adriana?
Adriana Herrera 14:26 / #
I'm pretty far into it. I just I realized that there's a few that I've missed. But I have read quite a few of them. I would say most of them. And I discovered her over Thanksgiving. It was very recent. I bought a new Kindle and got a KU subscription. And I had heard someone talk about her. Maybe it was one of you, I don't know who... I
Andie Christopher 14:51 / #
I think it was me, because I've read all of them and I just remembered I started my first one when I was still working in my office. So this was either like late February or early March,
Adriana Herrera 15:01 / #
It must have been you. I think we were chatting or something and it must have been Andie and I read one of them. And then I read a lot more of them. And I enjoy them. Like it's one of those things where some of the things, some of the elements to them are not particularly my buttons, but it's still so bananas. That I need to know what happens. So, yeah, I'm a fan.
Jennifer Prokop 15:32 / #
Fair enough. Okay, LaQuette, your're next.
LaQuette 15:34 / #
Hey, everyone, I'm LeQuette, but I write romance-- sometimes very steamy. Okay, erotic romance. My next book coming is coming out in February and it's titled Jackson. It's about a hulky, grumpy, Texas Ranger who falls in love with a sassy New Yorker who puts him in his place. It's loads of fun.
Jennifer Prokop 15:58 / #
And you are a newcomer to the Kane family. Yes?
LaQuette 16:01 / #
Yes. I've only read one at this point.
Jennifer Prokop 16:04 / #
That's okay.
Sarah MacLean 16:06 / #
Thanks, y'all.
Jennifer Prokop 16:12 / #
Tracey, what about you?
Tracey Livesay 16:14 / #
Hi, I'm Tracey Livesey. I write contemporary romance. My latest release was LIKE LOVERS DO, which came out in August and is still available. So go buy it. And just saying, I am new to Jessa Kane. During our zoom that Andie mentioned earlier, y'all couldn't stop talking about it. And so then y'all talked about doing this and I was like, I want to come. so I bought a Jessa Kane book. And here we are.
Sarah MacLean 16:57 / #
With your penis mug.
Tracey Livesay 16:58 / #
With my penis mug.
Sarah MacLean 17:00 / #
She came prepared.
Adriana Herrera 17:01 / #
I wish I had a penis mug.
Tracey Livesay 17:03 / #
I'm having a hot toddy in it.
Sarah MacLean 17:04 / #
So she came on brand
Nisha Sharma 17:06 / #
But that's not a Jessa Kane penis, mug, those are too small.
Andie Christopher 17:12 / #
No, a Jessa Kane penis mug would... go All the way around the mug
Adriana Herrera 17:16 / #
You could see it from space.
Tracey Livesay 17:20 / #
If you put them all together like an extension cocks, you know,
Adriana Herrera 17:26 / #
Extension cocks! like Christmas lights?
Tracey Livesay 17:32 / #
If one doesn't work, they all don't work, and you got to figure out which one works and then plug another one in, you know?
Jennifer Prokop 17:41 / #
Joanna Shupe.
Joanna Shupe 17:43 / #
Hi, I'm Joanna Shupe. I write historical romance. If you like Jessa's books, you might like the anthology DUKE I'D LIKE TO F, which I did with Adriana and some others. Those stories are bananas and very, very hot. On the Kane scale, I have read them all. I don't think I would have gone through 2020 without Jessa Kane. I'm just gonna put that out there. I just think they would have been a much different year for me had Jessa Kane not come into my life.
Jennifer Prokop 18:19 / #
I feel that. okay, Sarah MacLean.
Sarah MacLean 18:23 / #
I, Sarah MacLean, write romance novels and I read them and I'm on the "middle of the road" Kane scale. Here's the thing. I just looked at it, I just pulled up Amazon because like I said, all we know from Jessa's website is that she's satisfying and I can confirm it. But on Amazon there are so many of these books.
Joanna Shupe 18:42 / #
So many.
Sarah MacLean 18:43 / #
And like Nisha, I'm compulsive about my Kindle Unlimited list. So there's, I can only spare one slot at a time.
Jennifer Prokop 18:53 / #
Today, we were like, "who's going to talk about which one?" and I was like "yeah, whatever I read them all." I'm a 100 on the Kane scale and Sarah's like, "I read the one about the stepbrothers." And I was like, "that's like seven of them!"
Sarah MacLean 19:05 / #
No, no, I read the one where there are two stepbrothers! THEIR SUMMER INTERN, but then when I got on the website, there is also a HIS SUMMER INTERN, which is similar title but clearly different.
Adriana Herrera 19:21 / #
Not what you would expect.
Sarah MacLean 19:25 / #
Wait, what would I expect?
Adriana Herrera 19:29 / #
You would expect an office building? Yeah? Yeah? No.
Andie Christopher 19:36 / #
I haven't read this one.
Nisha Sharma 19:38 / #
Wait, what are we... this is like cabin in the woods.
Sarah MacLean 19:43 / #
Why would he need an intern in the cabin?
Joanna Shupe 19:46 / #
He doesn't.
Adriana Herrera 19:47 / #
He doesn't.
LaQuette 19:51 / #
You're asking for things to make sense. There's no logic.
Adriana Herrera 19:54 / #
He's a survivalist.
Sarah MacLean 19:56 / #
He's a survivalist who requires an intern? this feels Like a serious like workplace violation
LaQuette 20:04 / #
All of them are workplace violations.
Jennifer Prokop 20:13 / #
I'm gonna call it. I'm gonna run have to run this thing. Everybody we're just gonna let me do this, okay?
Jennifer Prokop 20:16 / #
LaQuette and Tracey, because otherwise it's gonna be nine people talking and Eric will be mad. He'll be like, "that wasn't fun. It's too many people talking." LaQuette and Tracy you have each read one. Which ones have you read?
Sarah MacLean 20:29 / #
Oh, and Alexis, too.
Jennifer Prokop 20:31 / #
Oka, so Alexis, too. I would like to hear about the people who are brand new to the Jessa Kane universe.
LaQuette 20:40 / #
I read HEFTY which I thought was super adorable. I will say that I didn't find it as hot as I expected considering all of the feedback I was getting about Jessica Kane. So I think I'm telling on myself a little bit with what I actually read.
Jennifer Prokop 20:57 / #
My theory actually is that if it's a Jessa Kane that's not about a stepbrother or a daddy. It just feels like regular heat.
Sarah MacLean 21:07 / #
Also HEFTY is about high school students. So let's all settle down.
Jennifer Prokop 21:11 / #
wait, no, that's the one about the model
LaQuette 21:16 / #
That was the one with the model and the bartender. I it was cute. I thought it was hilarious. His especially the hero's perspective I really enjoyed. Because it was really fun. It was really fun to get to read someone who's aware of their size, and not really apologetic for it. Right? Like, he gest caught, he's looking at her. And he's kind of questioning whether she's actually checking him out or not. And he's like, Nah, she wouldn't be after my thick ass, you know? And I was like, Dude, I love this. I love that he was so in love with his own, he was just settled in his own body, he didn't care. And the only time he ever seem to feel uncomfortable, outside of when she's teasing him, so to speak. But the only time he's ever uncomfortable is when someone, when the I guess you can't call them a villain, her. But the antagonist in the story, her best friend, is the only time that you see him feel some sort of insecurity about his size. And it's not because he feels that, but it's because someone else has that thought about him. And I think that's a very important distinction because there are a lot of romances that I've read with plus size heroines, not plus sized heroes, but there's always this thread of this person feeling like they can't be loved, or there's something wrong with them. Because they are plus size. And I love that he knew he was thick, he didn't care. And it was just and I love that she loved everything about him. And through her eyes, you get to fall in love with this man. And I think that's that's how you write a plus size person. You allow them to be comfortable in their own skin, as well as allow the person or people who love them to adore everything about them, including their 3x size.
Adriana Herrera 23:32 / #
Yeah, and I appreciate her writing plus size men because you never see never, never see plus, larger men in romance. I mean, the reality is that most people are married to larger size men. So the idea of both HEFTY and HUSKY. Like the heroine is specifically into their bodies, like they find them sexy. They find them attractive. But it's for and, and HEFTY, It's baffling to her that the other girls in the school aren't so into him because to her he's so attractive. And so
Andie Christopher 24:22 / #
I mean, what I really love about these books is how much emotion she packs it sometimes Yeah, we can pack into like 60, 70 pages. Oh yeah, like there's a lot
Adriana Herrera 24:33 / #
There's a lot of skill there like with HEFTY the the high schoolers. Like I'm like, Okay, these are high schoolers with the heat. It was a little harder for me but this romance
Sarah MacLean 24:44 / #
We should say they're both over 18
Adriana Herrera 24:46 / #
They both are over 18.
Sarah MacLean 24:49 / #
Very clear, very important that they are 18.
Nisha Sharma 24:52 / #
Do you know what I love about Jessa Kane? In these situations is that you see a lot of people try to tackle these issues. Or not even issues like these concepts in romance, and they skirt around it, because they're afraid of saying what everyone already knows. Jessa Kane is not afraid of just saying it and just putting it on the page. And I just love it because it feels so much more authentic. And so like the emotion is just so raw in it because she's just flat out just puts it all out there and I love that.
Joanna Shupe 25:28 / #
There's no fear. Of any topic, at any level. Any subject, any kink, no fear.
Adriana Herrera 25:36 / #
Yeah, and I think it's, and I wonder how how it is for her to write those books. Because it feels to me like I was really saying this about the novelette that I wrote, HER NIGHT WITH SANTA, was everything that is, I was like, here are my ID-list things. So let me just write it. And that just poured out of me because it was so satisfying and delicious for me to write about it. Because this stuff I love to read. And I find super hot. So I and I think for me, even the books that don't quite work for me in terms of the kinks. I still enjoy them because I can tell the enjoyment that was happening when those stories were being written.
Sarah MacLean 26:16 / #
Yeah, it doesn't feel the same way as I mean, we should say for those of you who've never read Jesse Kane, like these are shorts.
Jennifer Prokop 26:23 / #
They are! Oh, yeah.
Adriana Herrera 26:26 / #
It's a one hour read.
Sarah MacLean 26:28 / #
Yeah, exactly. And so you can really tear through them. I mean, I read like seven and a night one night. But the what's interesting about that is that it really does feel like she just sits-- I wonder, I mean, I wonder how long she actually, I wonder if it's just a one sitting story because it does sort of feel like she just opens up a vein and, there now you've got this.
Jennifer Prokop 26:53 / #
There's not a lot of attention to plot. It is really all about like emotions and about
Sarah MacLean 26:58 / #
Well the plot is twisty turny like this, the the stepbrother one. THEIR SUMMER INTERN, Oh, okay. You guys.
Jennifer Prokop 27:09 / #
Yeah, we talked about the cute stuff. No, I think we're like: yeah, it's kind of normal. Then You have THEIR SUMMER INTERN.
Sarah MacLean 27:17 / #
The Plot of THEIR SUMMER INTERN is this woman, that the heroine-- all her heroines, I think, somebody, Joanna and Jen, correct me if I'm wrong, but her heroines are always very young, right?
Sarah MacLean 27:29 / #
I they all get bred by the end.
Adriana Herrera 27:31 / #
Usually virgin, enthusiastically bred.
Jennifer Prokop 27:37 / #
You know what, she does do some virgin heroes, too
Sarah MacLean 27:43 / #
These two heroes are not virgins. Just to be clear.
LaQuette 27:47 / #
What I what I appreciated about the about HUSKY anyway, was that you have this hero who is and in most of our books, we read these books where the hero is so virile, and, you know, and his stamina is ridiculous. And this guy is just like, Look, I'm not gonna make it. It's not gonna happen. This is gonna be a 1-2-3 pump kind of situation. And I thought that was so refreshing that they weren't having this hour long love fest and that it was just quick and dirty. And I thought it was so hilarious that he was like, "fuck it. You can laugh at me later. But for the rest of my life, I'm going to hold on to this scene where I got to be with you. It doesn't matter that I only lasted three seconds."
Andie Christopher 28:41 / #
He made up for it like with the coat on the boardwalk.
LaQuette 28:48 / #
Still, it was great to read that because I think so often, we get caught up in the fantasy of the romance, of sex. And we don't really portray it always in a realistic fashion. Because, you know...
Nisha Sharma 29:05 / #
Let me tell you, that is not the typical Jessa Kane, the ones that I read it was like, Oh, this is what you have to deal with when you're sitting on a nine inch cock.
Sarah MacLean 29:22 / #
That's not realistic?
Sarah MacLean 29:27 / #
They're all the size of a two liter bottle of Coke.
Adriana Herrera 29:33 / #
Yes, I mean, they are for breeding. Um, so one thing I would say is there's this very raw. And again, it's a slice of America that sometimes, it's a little jarring for me as a naturalized citizen of the United States. I think... Like what? What always gets me about it, I was re-reading PREACHER MAN this afternoon because Andie mentioned it
Andie Christopher 30:09 / #
It's my favorite, it's my first
Adriana Herrera 30:12 / #
And I'm like you know
Sarah MacLean 30:13 / #
I'm so surprised by that, by the way Andie, definitely that's your Id.
Jennifer Prokop 30:17 / #
I'm pretty sure I told Joanna about Jessa Kane because I really... I remember Joanna being like... THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE? I'm in!
Joanna Shupe 30:25 / #
I'll be right back in two hours.
Sarah MacLean 30:30 / #
Isnt' PREACHER MAN , the one where he watches her through the window?
Andie Christopher 30:34 / #
Oh, it's five different books.
Sarah MacLean 30:38 / #
She masturbate during his sermon, too?
Andie Christopher 30:41 / #
She masturbates while he watches her through the window. And he masturbates outside.
Sarah MacLean 30:47 / #
And she's wearing like a white nightgown the whole time?
Andie Christopher 30:53 / #
A slip to get baptized. That's later she..
Adriana Herrera 30:57 / #
That's before we find out he's actually a mafia assassin. Her mom hires him to give her an exorcism
Andie Christopher 31:10 / #
on the edge of the woods in her Mississippi town.
Sarah MacLean 31:12 / #
I forgot about the exorcism,
Adriana Herrera 31:16 / #
There's an exorcism
Andie Christopher 31:18 / #
that he does with his mouth on her pussy.
Adriana Herrera 31:22 / #
Exercises that right out of her
Sarah MacLean 31:25 / #
I mean, they take the finger every one.
Adriana Herrera 31:33 / #
Completely up. I mean, I think that's what I find very, I think that's why I connect and I don't read a lot of like bananas bonkers super taboo stuff. I really don't. But first of all, I think it's because it's that quick shot, it's so short, I don't need to read 40 different kidnappings. You know, like, there's one.
Nisha Sharma 32:01 / #
That's my entire Kindle! Like all the kidnappings, me and Joanna, we're like, oh, did you read this?
Adriana Herrera 32:12 / #
It's not my thing! But if it's one short one, I can handle it.
Sarah MacLean 32:17 / #
But if it's a kidnapping on top of an exorcism on top of stepbrothers, then you're like, Okay!
Adriana Herrera 32:22 / #
But it's moving. It's moving. The momentum is moving.
Jennifer Prokop 32:29 / #
I really want to hear from Tracy and Alexis, who just look disturbed by all of it.
Jennifer Prokop 32:36 / #
Tracy, what did you read?
Joanna Shupe 32:40 / #
Tracey is like, is it too late to back out?
Sarah MacLean 32:47 / #
Tracey came With a cock mug, it's fine. She can handle that.
Tracey Livesay 32:53 / #
Um, I've read SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST.
Andie Christopher 32:57 / #
Oh, that's such a good one.
Tracey Livesay 33:02 / #
Okay. So I'm going to start off despite my facial expressions by saying like, LaQuette, it was not, It was a little tame for me. And that might be telling about me, but it was a little tame for my reading. And I wondered if, as she was writing, she delved deeper into her Id. I wonder if that came before the preacher book because I want to read that, or the Intern book. Like, I want to read that. So I don't know if that was like, progression.
Jennifer Prokop 33:38 / #
Ok, well I have a theory. Do you want to hear my theory about this? Yeah, yeah. Those of us that are that are Jessa Kane One Hundreds would like to bring people on board to the Jessa Kane train, but you can't start them with THEIR SUMMER INTERN, you have some that are like kind of normal-ish. And so that, okay, the beauty and the beast one it's fine, right?
Tracey Livesay 33:59 / #
I did I read something called SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST. So I don't know, like, what kind of on-roading do you like?
Adriana Herrera 34:09 / #
Yeah, the one with HIS SUMMER INTERN, with the survivalist on the cabin.
Tracey Livesay 34:15 / #
Okay, so SACRIFICED TO THE BEAST was beauty in the beast. And it starts off with her father and the villagers pretty much taking her to the forest to be sacrificed to the beast. And I have to admit that throughout, as I was reading the story, the soundtrack to the Disney Beauty the Beast kept playing in my head. So I kept imagining the villagers like: "he will make off with your children," with singing and torches and stuff. That was just that was just my mind. Um, and so they so apparently in the village, This is modern day, but it goes back and forth between modern day and feeling like the 1950s, I don't know. But anyway, so the village animals have been slaughtered. And so they have had this happen before and they say, it's a beast that lives in the woods. And so to appease the beast, so he won't slaughter their animals.
Adriana Herrera 35:23 / #
They need human sacrifice.
Sarah MacLean 35:27 / #
This is 2020 like modern, you're like... we need to sacrifice a virgin
Adriana Herrera 35:35 / #
We need to sacrifice the virgin.
Tracey Livesay 35:41 / #
She's the only one...
Tracey Livesay 35:42 / #
The only virgin?
Nisha Sharma 35:46 / #
If I was in that town, I'd be getting like laid in the eighth grade just to make sure that I wouldn't be...
Adriana Herrera 35:59 / #
I think maybe her dad gives her away. I think her dad is okay with it.
Tracey Livesay 36:04 / #
the entire village! He's like, yes.
Sarah MacLean 36:07 / #
So on the Id list, the Jesse Kane Id list is: dads who are like: "fuck off. I don't care."
LaQuette 36:12 / #
I think that's on everyone's Id list.
Tracey Livesay 36:16 / #
They tie her to a tree and leave her and, and then the beast is silhouetted against the night and he roars and it's very scary. And I'm thinking, "oh my god, is it like an actual beast?" Which I don't know! And it was not an actual beast. It was just a big man. He's like seven feet tall. Apparently, he's very hairy, he might need a haircut and a shave, but they don't do that in the book.
Tracey Livesay 36:54 / #
And, um, and so yeah, they have sex.
Sarah MacLean 36:58 / #
So she just had sex with this hairy beastie dude.
Tracey Livesay 37:01 / #
Yeah, she puts up a you know, she goes against him for the evening. But then the next day they just do it.
Andie Christopher 37:09 / #
Doesn't he go down on her first? isn't that kind of sweet?
Adriana Herrera 37:15 / #
He doens't really know, he's like: I feel like this would be nice for her.
Tracey Livesay 37:24 / #
he was very sweet. Very nice and sweet. He was not beast-like at all. He's very nice, sweet, and he fell in love with her and her long blonde hair. And so he was very sweet and as tender with the virgin as you could be when you have a 12 inch. 12 inch!
LaQuette 37:49 / #
Yeah, I'm right with you, and I appreciate
Sarah MacLean 37:51 / #
For the people who are just listening to the podcast, Tracy just pulled out a ruler, as though she had come prepared for this.
Tracey Livesay 38:04 / #
Like the subway footlong, and she's a virgin.
Adriana Herrera 38:10 / #
a foot Long
Jennifer Prokop 38:16 / #
so you enjoyed it but not as dirty as you liked. Okay.
Tracey Livesay 38:19 / #
Yes, yes,
Tracey Livesay 38:23 / #
They will be a scene, because there was a scene where she like-- I shouldn't be too loud, my kids are up-- but there was a scene where she goes down on him in front of these like evil guys.
Jennifer Prokop 38:35 / #
There is a voyuerism angle in a lot of them
Sarah MacLean 38:40 / #
there's another one like that and somebody I can't remember later one but it's it's in a cabin and he makes her dad watch it too. Yeah
Nisha Sharma 38:54 / #
And he puts her on the table.
Sarah MacLean 38:56 / #
And LaQuette is like, now what?
Adriana Herrera 38:59 / #
Which one is that one?
LaQuette 39:04 / #
Tell me which one that one is, because I cannot read that.
Sarah MacLean 39:07 / #
which one is that one?
Nisha Sharma 39:08 / #
It's called THE FIGHTER'S PRIZE and he races in to save her because the dad wanted to marry her off to this other dude. And she's like, "no I'm with you!" and he's like "well then prove it" and basically does her on the table, is like watch me claim this woman.
Adriana Herrera 39:25 / #
Okay, first of all, I just want to premise this by saying that her dad was total trash and sold her
LaQuette 39:31 / #
I don't care!
Sarah MacLean 39:37 / #
There's also one where the cabin one.
Andie Christopher 39:40 / #
There's also when where, shit, where the heroine gets auctioned off because she went to a party with her friends
Joanna Shupe 39:47 / #
SUDDENLY HIS! SUDDENLY HIS!
Nisha Sharma 39:49 / #
I love SUDDENLY HIS! that one was so good.
Joanna Shupe 39:55 / #
That one doesn't leave my Kindle. I don't ever return that one, that one is a perma-lend.
Sarah MacLean 40:07 / #
isn't there one more there in a cabin? And the he brings in a priest to watch?
Jennifer Prokop 40:12 / #
Okay, that one, listen is the one with Alexa Riley so it is no longer available on KU. You have to get that one on iBooks. Ask me how I know. it's like the Russian... Wait, I'd have to look at up [TAKEN BY THE RUSSIAN.]
Joanna Shupe 40:29 / #
Wait , I haven't read that one.
Sarah MacLean 40:30 / #
Oh Joanna get going. Joanna has to go
Jennifer Prokop 40:33 / #
In the middle of the wedding ceremony, She's whispering dirty stuff to him. And he basically starts fucking her while the priest is marrying them. And he says to her, he says to the priest, he says, make her my wife while I make her a mother.
Sarah MacLean 40:49 / #
Yeah. That is some weird shit.
Sarah MacLean 41:07 / #
Nisha is like, get it in my veins. Here's the thing, everybody that listens to the podcast knows that all I care about is when writers do like crazy, when they're like, I'm just gonna do it. We're just gonna see if this works. I love it. I will always buy your next book if you try that? That is some weird shit.
Adriana Herrera 41:26 / #
That is some weird stuff.
Alexis Daria 41:28 / #
What if we cross referenced all of the tropes? Like this is the one that has voyeurism in it and we can reference, okay, these are the five that have that and these are the ones that involve kidnapping.
Sarah MacLean 41:42 / #
Yes, Alexis, you're in charge now
Alexis Daria 41:46 / #
Some are gonna hit your buttons.
Adriana Herrera 41:52 / #
Now there's a lot of recurring themes in her in her stories, I mean, "enthusiastically bred" is in almost every one, Hello.
Sarah MacLean 42:01 / #
"I'm gonna put a baby in you" is like...
Andie Christopher 42:04 / #
or three in her! and I'm like, that can't be comfortable.
Sarah MacLean 42:07 / #
And then there's the firemen one where its, "I wonder which one of us is going to be the dad." And it's like, that feels weird.
Adriana Herrera 42:15 / #
that's weird.
Tracey Livesay 42:18 / #
What was that one called?
Jennifer Prokop 42:19 / #
And also in THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER and also THEIR SUMMER INTERN, I think has that "who's gonna be the father since we're both fucking her."
Sarah MacLean 42:28 / #
It's HER 2 PROTECTORS, number two, Her 2 protectors.
Adriana Herrera 42:32 / #
Her 2 protectors, So there's two possibilities.
Joanna Shupe 42:37 / #
He's obsessed with the heroine from the jump.
Alexis Daria 42:40 / #
The one that I read...
Adriana Herrera 42:41 / #
It's Alexis's turn. Eric is gonna have so much fun with this. Sorry, Eric.
Alexis Daria 42:50 / #
So I read QUEEN SIZED, which is technically like, maybe a fantasy romance.
Adriana Herrera 42:59 / #
It should be time travel
Alexis Daria 43:00 / #
Medieval times-y era in like, a place that is not a real place except people say Jesus Christ. Yeah, the guy's like "Jesus Christ. She's so hot."
Sarah MacLean 43:18 / #
it's not actual Jesus Christ?
Alexis Daria 43:24 / #
I mean, this book could be set on a reality show, it could be set at a Ren faire. Who knows where?
Adriana Herrera 43:32 / #
I've said this before, he should have been, it should have been time travel. He should have been a bouncer from Queens who goes through a portal and ends up in the medieval times.
Alexis Daria 43:43 / #
Yeah, and he becomes the king of this, like one kingdom, that's
Sarah MacLean 43:46 / #
in New Jersey,
Adriana Herrera 43:48 / #
in Hollis, Queens.
Alexis Daria 43:51 / #
They're having this like event between the two kingdoms called the joining, which is kind of what it sounds like. Celebrating the peace or something like that. But a lot of people end up hooking up and, you know, going off with each other and getting married after joining.
Tracey Livesay 44:07 / #
is the orgy on the page? is the orgy on the page?
Alexis Daria 44:12 / #
I know. I also felt like it was a little
Sarah MacLean 44:15 / #
Tracey's like, I got it.
Alexis Daria 44:17 / #
...other things that I've read or what I had been led to believe. But also the heroine is a virgin and she's trying to stay a virgin throughout the story because she is a farmer and she's got two sisters. She has to take care of them and she's like, I need a husband. We haven't had good crops last two years, and I need to marry a guy with money so that my sisters can be provided for
Sarah MacLean 44:39 / #
That's just sensible.
Alexis Daria 44:43 / #
And the king, he's like this giant warrior looking guy, of course. And he's walking with his friend and his friend is like, "you know, you really should think about getting a wife and if you ever want to talk about your traumic childhood, I'm here for you." And he's like, "No, I don't want to talk about my feelings. And I definitely don't want a wife. I'm so not into that--- Oh my God, Who is she?" And he's just been saying all the reasons why he doesn't want anything. And then he's like, "Oh my God, Who is she? I love her." So he goes over to her, and she tells him to drop dead. And he
LaQuette 45:22 / #
Does she know he's the king?
Alexis Daria 45:23 / #
So hilarious.
Jennifer Prokop 45:25 / #
She doesn't know, he just thinks he's too much for her, right?
Alexis Daria 45:29 / #
No, She's just, she doesn't know who he is, for one thing,
Jennifer Prokop 45:34 / #
Random man, I have things to do right now! Right?
Alexis Daria 45:37 / #
I'm here to find a husband. And I'm not gonna mess around with you going for a walk by the water. Sure. I know what that means. And she finds out he's the king and she's still just kind of like, Alright, fine, I'll go with you. And she's very much. He's like, "I don't want a wife. You're gonna be my mistress." And she's like, "Hell no, I'm not gonna be your mistress." But then he goes down on her and she goes down on him, like over in a cave. And then she's like, I gotta find a husband.
Adriana Herrera 46:10 / #
as you do!
Tracey Livesay 46:10 / #
it's compromising they're compromising already. It's...
Adriana Herrera 46:14 / #
....meeting halfway.
Tracey Livesay 46:17 / #
Yeah, it'll work.
Sarah MacLean 46:19 / #
So what I love about this is she's like, Alright, they have to have sex where they're gonna have sex. There must be a cave nearby
Alexis Daria 46:24 / #
A cave! They're like...
Sarah MacLean 46:25 / #
In my lifetime, I have never stumbled upon a cave
Adriana Herrera 46:33 / #
Everybody knows medieval times are full or caves, okay.
Alexis Daria 46:37 / #
The thing about this book was how how funny it was. So she tells him at one point like, well, Your Majesty, it's like you're between a loch and a hard place because you're there walking along the line. I laughed out loud.
Sarah MacLean 46:50 / #
She's funny. That's crazy. It was very funny. these books are great. They're very well written, she's a good writer.
Alexis Daria 47:00 / #
The first third was kind of out there. Like with setting everything up. There's not a ton of world building. But I think that if you like things like Reign or A Knight's Tale or stuff like that, where it's kind of old timey but not completely. You would like this.
Sarah MacLean 47:18 / #
You like men in armor.
Jennifer Prokop 47:20 / #
On Heaving Bosoms, they call it like England times. This world building is like medieval times....
Adriana Herrera 47:27 / #
they're wearing chain link and...
Sarah MacLean 47:29 / #
somebody eating a turkey leg with just their teeth.
Alexis Daria 47:35 / #
So they have a couple of these competitions for the women to compete so that the men can pick a wife.
Sarah MacLean 47:44 / #
And what do they have to do?
Alexis Daria 47:45 / #
So the first one is a pie pie baking competition. And she's like, I can't believe I have to make this fucking pie for these men. But it's a good ass pie. I was thinking, "This woman has better things to do than making a pie. She's busy." Her pie is next to this other lady's, who clearly needs help and is in more dire straits than she is. And her pie sucks. So she swaps her pie. And he notices that, he's like, "Oh my god, she's amazing." And then the other thing is carrying water, and she helps the woman carry the water. So she's very good-hearted. But from there on, It's just the emotions really get you. She's got these two younger sisters. And the king starts to really think they're adorable, too. And she's very concerned about what values she's showing her sisters, which is why she won't be his mistress. She's like: not that there's anything wrong with that. But that's not what I'm trying to do.
Jennifer Prokop 48:41 / #
One of the things that's really interesting about these books is in a typical romance setup, there's the seeds of misunderstanding are sown, And then the hero doesn't believe the heroine, right? But in these books, the hero always is like, "she would never fucking do that. So something else must be going on." Like, there's not just like, instant love, but there's also instant trust. And so there's one for example where I think it's called, Oh, THE PERFECT GIFT, where her sisters are like, "you have to go catch this really rich man and trap him." And she is like, "but I'm in love with him." Right? She falls in love with him. And he, and then they're texting her like, "have you done it yet?" And, and she is so freaked out. She's like, "I'm going to go see my sisters and tell them that I'm not going to do this." And he finds the phone with these really incriminating texts. And he's like, instantly like, MMMM, And he's like, "wait, no, she would never do this." Right. And so then he goes down and to prove his love to her, He fucks her in front of the sisters.
Adriana Herrera 49:49 / #
Yeah, as you do.
Sarah MacLean 49:52 / #
very reasonable.
Nisha Sharma 49:54 / #
are these young children?
Adriana Herrera 49:57 / #
Okay, no.
Andie Christopher 49:57 / #
they are evil olders sisters
LaQuette 50:10 / #
I have brothers and sisters this is not somthing that would ever happen.
Alexis Daria 50:15 / #
"So of course she doesn't want to be my mistress. Yeah, like, how could I have just asked her out right like that, that was so rude of me" So he goes, and he's like, I had a terrible childhood. And she's like, I feel so bad for you someday you're gonna find a woman you can really love without that. And then she leaves, because she's still not going to be his mistress. I would say the first third was very funny and a little bit silly. But then after that, I was just completely hooked in the story, because all of the emotional beats are there.
Sarah MacLean 50:46 / #
This is the crazy thing. Yeah, this is the wild thing about these books is, so HER 2, Her number 2 PROTECTORS, which is about a girl whose father was in the mafia, and her house gets set on fire, and she's asleep and like half naked asleep, and in come two brawny firemen who collect her and they're together when they see her. So they see her at the exact same time, right?
Sarah MacLean 51:21 / #
Exactly LaQuette, because we know that that's how it works.
Adriana Herrera 51:27 / #
It's like there's an imprinting that happened
Sarah MacLean 51:30 / #
It's fated mates. Every one of these books,
Nisha Sharma 51:33 / #
every single one of them.
Sarah MacLean 51:35 / #
And so the two of them [HER 2 PROTECTORS] So one carries her while the other one axes his way out of the burning building. And then they're like-- and the dad's dying. And he's like, "you got to take care of her." And they're like, yes. And so they just immediately take her to one of their houses and then all three of them are living together. And there's some kind of, swords do not cross in this, or the other one, well because they're brothers. I read both of the menages
Jennifer Prokop 52:02 / #
I will say, though, it is highly implied in the one with the actual real brothers [SUDDENLY THIERS] and then the step sister that they're crossing off page.
Sarah MacLean 52:13 / #
Oh, boy.
Jennifer Prokop 52:18 / #
it was too much for me!
Sarah MacLean 52:23 / #
No, but in this firemen one. So here's the thing, so I'm reading it and I'm like, Okay, cool. And then there's a little bit of, I wish she was mine alone. I wish she was mine alone Alpha douchebaggery. but then she's like, I need you both, You both give me different things. And then the older one is like, "I'll be your daddy and he could be your brother." And I'm like, "Oh, what?!" I was not prepared for this by the group! , but I'm gonna read the rest of it. I don't even know Myself.
Adriana Herrera 52:52 / #
That's me like 89% of the time reading these stories. I'm like, this is not okay. But I will continue to read this.
Jennifer Prokop 53:01 / #
Right? Yeah, sure. So
Andie Christopher 53:03 / #
we're talking about starter Jessa Kanes. There is one series that I think it's A PINCH OF SUGAR, which is a program and they're super filthy. When they're not.
Jennifer Prokop 53:20 / #
There's, um, they're all strangers to each other.
Andie Christopher 53:25 / #
They're all strangers. They see each other.
Adriana Herrera 53:34 / #
The series is called Lights, camera, Instalove.
Sarah MacLean 53:38 / #
I'm getting them.
Jennifer Prokop 53:40 / #
There you go. clear up some room in Kindle Unlimited.
Sarah MacLean 53:42 / #
Joanna? What about you.
Joanna Shupe 53:48 / #
So I think my, my favorite one, my gateway was THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE which I know is
Nisha Sharma 53:56 / #
don't be touching my book, Joanna.
Sarah MacLean 53:58 / #
It's a weird title.
Joanna Shupe 54:01 / #
What I love is like every title is exactly what You get. The titles are spot on. The covers are spot on. I also love that. When you read it... I will read a description of a Jessa Kane book and I'll be like, is that really? Is that for me? And then I'll start reading it. And there's another four tropes in there that are me that were not in the description. It's like she has a trope wheel in her writing room and she spins it and sees what it lands on. She's like "billionaire," done. Spin again. "Exhibitionism," spin it again, "daddy kink," done, spin it, done. And it works! So like, SUDDENLY HIS is my favorite, which is the one where she goes out with her girlfriends. They take her to a sex auction. Then they find out she's a virgin and she can't leave. So she's got to sell her virginity because she needs the money. And guess what? There's a billionaire who's secretly in love with her and he shows up and buys her, and they have to have sex in front of his buyer.
Andie Christopher 55:10 / #
His butler calls him because he's been following her.
Sarah MacLean 55:14 / #
Butler?.
Adriana Herrera 55:15 / #
Saturday night in Manhattan.
Joanna Shupe 55:17 / #
It's a PI. It's a private investigator that's trailing her. He's like, Hey, you got to get over here but
Sarah MacLean 55:22 / #
I'd rather it was a butler, honestly.
LaQuette 55:28 / #
Just thinking it's like Albert calling Bruce Wayne.
Joanna Shupe 55:35 / #
It's his Man, his man is there.
Andie Christopher 55:41 / #
Like, it could be Batman fanfic.We don't know.
Adriana Herrera 55:45 / #
It could it be his consigliere because it couldn't be a mafia boss. It doesn't matter.
Alexis Daria 55:57 / #
You know what I though, if she rewrote the same story on reality show or at a Ren faire? I would still read it both ways.
Joanna Shupe 56:04 / #
Yeah, absolutely.
Adriana Herrera 56:06 / #
Yeah, QUEEN SIZE is time travel. Tessa, If you're watching this. Give me the time travel.
Sarah MacLean 56:16 / #
Time travel! She just needs to add time travel to the trope wheel.
LaQuette 56:21 / #
I want An alien
Sarah MacLean 56:23 / #
[laughs] an alien.
Jennifer Prokop 56:24 / #
Alien seems destined for the trope wheel? Oh, wait, Nisha, you want to talk about THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE? Since it was brought up?
Nisha Sharma 56:32 / #
I took notes.
Adriana Herrera 56:34 / #
Of course you did?
Andie Christopher 56:38 / #
We know you. Of course you took notes. We love it.
Sarah MacLean 56:41 / #
Nisha's in charge always
Nisha Sharma 56:42 / #
I love THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE because it exactly exactly speaks to my Id. First of all, yes, there's obviously mafia involved. But it's, the the hero goes in for a massage. That his best friend got him for his birthday. And he has no intention of taking the massage. He's like, oh, she'll just play on her phone in the corner. And I'll sit in the corner and just work and we'll pretend that we got it because I would never turn my back to the door or be vulnerable. I can never be vulnerable. I love that. So he sees her, Fated Mates instant love. And he's like, will you grant me the honor of massaging you?
LaQuette 57:29 / #
from the waist down.
Sarah MacLean 57:33 / #
It's just a service. It's him being magnanimous and wanting her to have pleasure. That's it has nothing to do with him. Yeah.
Nisha Sharma 57:41 / #
He gives her, he's like, I'll give you whatever money you want. And she's like, okay,
Andie Christopher 57:47 / #
To massage her!
Alexis Daria 57:50 / #
And a massage.
Nisha Sharma 57:51 / #
Wait, what?.
Alexis Daria 57:52 / #
She's getting money and a massage?
Nisha Sharma 57:54 / #
She's getting money and a massage... on her vagina.
Tracey Livesay 58:00 / #
that's a Massage
Nisha Sharma 58:01 / #
It is obviously orgasmic and she's a virgin. And she's like, "if this is what I've been missing, and you know, obviously, yes, let's go all the way." And fabulous because Jessa Kane, she writes in the story this one line that I kind of think epitomizes a lot of the way that she uses language across all of her books, which is "I say the things that I say to shock her into remembering me forever." And it's like, Okay, well that makes sense to me. Because the way that Jessa Kane uses language in a lot of these high tension / high passion scenes is very much shock value and I 100% remember it. It's like, she calls a vagina a gash multiple times. And it's like, what?
Adriana Herrera 59:02 / #
it's very primal.
Jennifer Prokop 59:03 / #
Yeah, well.
Nisha Sharma 59:05 / #
I'm like, Oh, this is, well hello. And it's great. And then the best part about THE MOBSTER'S MASSEUSE is okay, instant love. Then of course she's in danger. And then he goes to her. He's like, ride my-- there's like a bunch of stuff that happens, romance things happen-- And then there's a scene towards the end where they've declared their love for each other. And he's like, "ride me. I just killed someone for you." And she's totally turned on by it. And like, just score and she's like, "yes, you killed someone for me. I'm all about it." And then he's like "you have to call me your king." And she's like, "yep I'm on it. Yes." calling you King. And he's like, "I'm going to fill you up with your your tummy's favorite juice."
Tracey Livesay 1:00:03 / #
No, thank you.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:07 / #
Wait! Actually the word "Tummy."
Nisha Sharma 1:00:11 / #
I have to do a search for it.
Jennifer Prokop 1:00:13 / #
Oh my god,
Adriana Herrera 1:00:14 / #
But you know what? I was thinking yesterday when I was trying to explain to my spouse Jessa Kane. I was like, imagine if 80s movies had just a lot of sex. Like imagine Grease with a ton of boning. Shit is happening, a crazy ass thing is happening, like there's a car coming down from the sky. Oh, there's Frankie Valli. And then there's...
Nisha Sharma 1:00:38 / #
She actually uses the word "Tummy" like I highlighted it. It's "eat it all up. There you go gorgeous. Take it down. Let it work its magic in your tummy."
Tracey Livesay 1:00:50 / #
That's not how it works.
Nisha Sharma 1:00:57 / #
at the end, the last line of the book, in the epilogue is she tells him "breed me, my king."
Adriana Herrera 1:01:06 / #
But hey, let's be honest. What is this be exactly, Let's say, how Sonny Corleone would be with his mistress?
Adriana Herrera 1:01:17 / #
This is literally what Sonny...
LaQuette 1:01:22 / #
He would have more finesse.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:26 / #
No. Sonny would!?
LaQuette 1:01:30 / #
He was very crude, but he was he wasn't that corny is what I'm saying.
Sarah MacLean 1:01:35 / #
He would never say "tummy." Sonny Corleone would not say tummy.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:40 / #
He would not say "tummy." that would be Fredo.
LaQuette 1:01:48 / #
Fredo, yes.
Adriana Herrera 1:01:49 / #
Oh, okay. Great. This is Fredo's story.
Jennifer Prokop 1:01:52 / #
I will say, if you are ever are unsure of how to define "daddy" for someone Jessa Kane has done it for us in the book HIS PRIZE PUPIL. I literally, when I read this, and I was like, "I'm gonna go ahead and highlight this because if I ever need to describe to anybody I will." So she's of course about to sell her virginity, same dealeo, right? She goes into this room, and the madam is giving her essentially a crash course in Daddy, and she is like, what is this gonna mean? And so Estelle, that's the madam says, "Look dear. I don't have time for a long psychology lesson. So here's the condensed version. A father is an accountant in a sweater vest who yawns through her dance recitals. A daddy pulls your hair, fucks you on your hands and knees, then buys you a pretty necklace. There's a difference. You're allowed to enjoy it."
Sarah MacLean 1:02:42 / #
That's a great line.
Andie Christopher 1:02:43 / #
I'm addending that to the definition of stern brunch Daddy, a Daddy who buys your brunch? And then does the rest of that. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 1:02:58 / #
But I was like, there it is, right there. I mean, so this is like, someone who is very in touch with exactly what it is. Like when we, especially those tropes because there really is a core story here. Or there's several of them, I think, but a lot of it is just like, like the Fated Mates instant lust. Like we will instantly both fall in love with each other. Nothing will stand in our way
Sarah MacLean 1:03:25 / #
I have questions about MY HUSBAND, MY STALKER, which I have not read
Andie Christopher 1:03:31 / #
I read that.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:31 / #
Largely because the title freaks me out.
Joanna Shupe 1:03:35 / #
Yeah, but on Amazon It has the most reviews of any of her books, that is the most highly reviewed.
Sarah MacLean 1:03:44 / #
So tell me about it, Joanne Shupe.
Jennifer Prokop 1:03:53 / #
Okay, this one, again, I was like, I'm gonna read them all. Because I know that even if I'm like, "there's no fucking way!" I'm gonna be like, "Alright, it was fine." He is, he saw her on TV, I think. And instantly Of course, fell in love with her.
Sarah MacLean 1:04:08 / #
Yep.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:09 / #
And what is... then he essentially finds a way to essentially meet her. And marry, He meets her and marries her.
Joanna Shupe 1:04:19 / #
He tells her he's an insurance salesman or something.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:22 / #
Yeah, exactly. And, and really, he's a hitman, I think right? And so I was like, he's a cop?
Adriana Herrera 1:04:28 / #
That was a TV show in the 80s.
Sarah MacLean 1:04:31 / #
They are always also a hitman. All of them are also a hitman.
Jennifer Prokop 1:04:35 / #
That's it. This woman [Jessa Kane] is definitely my age, these 80s tropes are really in their heart. Yes. So essentially, he dates her under this assumed identity and marries her. And she doesn't realize that he essentially kind of stalked her, like he fell in love with her from afar. And then when she goes off to work and does her things during the day if he does not have any assassinations planned, he will instead follow her around and keep an eye on her.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:17 / #
Can we just, I wish that the people listening could see Jen face, because she's got her full on middle school teacher. Right now as she's talking about this Hitman stalker.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:31 / #
I know, I'm like and then the symbolism is...
Sarah MacLean 1:05:35 / #
she's like animals are symbols.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:36 / #
All animals are gonna fall in love with you.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:41 / #
I would really like to talk about THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:48 / #
Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 1:05:49 / #
Look at Nisha! Yeah!
Joanna Shupe 1:05:51 / #
that's a good one.
Jennifer Prokop 1:05:53 / #
My favorites.
Adriana Herrera 1:05:55 / #
I think it's the one that's, other than HEFTY, which I've discussed and I enjoyed very much and that was really sweet. THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS was so mind blowing to me, because it is so it's like, okay: you're telling me he's a kingpin, but you're presenting me with an angsty cinnamon roll. That's like, that's what I'm getting. You can tell me he's the greatest criminal mind in modern time.
Sarah MacLean 1:06:30 / #
Wait, can we talk about his name, which is Easton Brawn with a W?
Adriana Herrera 1:06:36 / #
Easter Brawn
Sarah MacLean 1:06:39 / #
Because name is destiny.
Adriana Herrera 1:06:39 / #
Who thinks of himself as the greatest criminal mind in modern history. And he is at the MMA fight in his box. I personally have never been to an MMA fight, so I don't know if they have VIP boxes, I assume they do. So he sees her, then asks his man to bring her up to him, which you know, checks out very 80s, very 80s, very 80s. I imagine him in a shiny gray suit. So they bring her up to him. And then immediately, you know, he wants her but she's,
Nisha Sharma 1:07:22 / #
you have to start with her passing out.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:26 / #
she passes out when she realizes it's him because everybody knows Easton is the greatest criminal mind in modern history. She passes out.
Jennifer Prokop 1:07:37 / #
She read a profile of him from New York magazine or something.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:40 / #
She passes out?
Sarah MacLean 1:07:41 / #
Wait, she read a profile of him.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:44 / #
Everybody knows. Everybody knows him.
Sarah MacLean 1:07:47 / #
I don't know, Jen. It all feels plausible.
Adriana Herrera 1:07:50 / #
He's from the underworld, but everybody knows him. Everybody knows about him. and he's so handsome too. Like, he should not be this... anyway. So she goes up, she passes out then you know he wants to fuck her of course. But then she tells him she's a virgin. So he was like, Well, let me take you out on a quick date first.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:14 / #
Somebody should buy you dinner.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:16 / #
I don't want to take your flower without buying you dinner. So they go and they get in the car.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:22 / #
What a gentleman!
Andie Christopher 1:08:24 / #
Do they unshell the lobster while they're still on the way to the restaurant?
Adriana Herrera 1:08:30 / #
On the way to the date, she's like, "oh, shoot, my sister. My dad sold her. So if the one guy wins the fight, she has to go with him. And can you find out who won the fight?" So I'm like, okay, but your sister like you left her? so anyway...
Nisha Sharma 1:08:51 / #
It crosses with THE FIGHTER'S PRIZE.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:53 / #
The FIGHTER'S PRIZE, right?
Sarah MacLean 1:08:54 / #
That's where they fucking in front of the priest later?
Nisha Sharma 1:08:57 / #
No, they fuck in front of the dad and the competitor.
Sarah MacLean 1:08:59 / #
Dad.
Adriana Herrera 1:08:59 / #
Yes. Yeah. But I mean, in hindsight, the stakes were a little bit different so it was not... anyway, so her sister could have been sold but she was on a date. She was gonna check in.
Sarah MacLean 1:09:14 / #
It worked out fine.
Nisha Sharma 1:09:16 / #
they didn't like the date place. So they went to like her watering hole
Adriana Herrera 1:09:20 / #
her watering hole
Nisha Sharma 1:09:21 / #
She is like 18 years old, By the way.
Adriana Herrera 1:09:23 / #
Everybody knows her because her dad who's like a deadbeat who sold her sister was like a patron in this watering hole type pub. Everybody knows it's him. But they're like, oh, look how sweet he is with her. So I guess it's fine that he's the greatest criminal mind in modern history. He's dating this little, I can't even remember, she'll be 19
Sarah MacLean 1:09:47 / #
they are all 18
Adriana Herrera 1:09:49 / #
she's in college.
LaQuette 1:09:50 / #
She's 19 maybe
Sarah MacLean 1:09:53 / #
they have to be...
Jennifer Prokop 1:09:55 / #
The sisters is 18
Sarah MacLean 1:09:56 / #
Super fertile because the id list, I mean like the only thing that is on every one of these id lists is she's got to get bred and I
Adriana Herrera 1:10:06 / #
happen like, waiting nights.
Sarah MacLean 1:10:09 / #
I know anybody who has children is like no thank you
LaQuette 1:10:13 / #
I feel like there's just, Jessa Kane, we have to talk about some of these things that she's been writing.
Sarah MacLean 1:10:19 / #
But this breeding thing is really to me, we've never talked, we've talked about it sort of vaguely on the podcast, the breeding thing, but like, it is a thing. It is like a real kink. That like a lot of
Adriana Herrera 1:10:31 / #
like, the omega verse is all about being bred like, yeah, it's literally millions of people read these.
Jennifer Prokop 1:10:42 / #
I'm gonna tell you I had to take to my bed when I had this realization. This is not an exaggeration. I read all these fucking books. And the one that is like a hardcore no go for me is the one where they're in high school. Now, part of this is because I have a son in high school and I was like, this is really fucking gross. And then I was like, these are the only two that are actually age appropriate. This is age appropriate for this eighteen year old to be with another eighteen year old, but I'm so grossed out by it, and instead I'm reading all the books where she is 18 and he is like 30 and then I had to like lay down
LaQuette 1:11:11 / #
You just have to come to terms with that.
Adriana Herrera 1:11:16 / #
No no HUSKY, their age difference.
Sarah MacLean 1:11:19 / #
What did you say? Alexis?
Alexis Daria 1:11:20 / #
In HUSKY, she's like, 21 Oh,
Sarah MacLean 1:11:24 / #
In QUEEN SIZED, she's 21. She's practically on the shelf.
Alexis Daria 1:11:27 / #
An old lady.
Adriana Herrera 1:11:29 / #
She's a
Sarah MacLean 1:11:31 / #
spinster.
Andie Christopher 1:11:32 / #
So okay, so can I just interject? I'm just, I'm just sitting here thinking about after this pandemic is over, after we can leave our houses again, after I can date again. I'm gonna have to tell Adriana about my dates.
LaQuette 1:11:53 / #
Why is it that only Adriana gets to hear though?
Sarah MacLean 1:11:56 / #
Yeah, I mean, why can't we just do this?
Andie Christopher 1:12:02 / #
Adriana is gonna be the one who is like, wait, he took you where?
Sarah MacLean 1:12:06 / #
No, it's gonna be like that one time. Do you guys remember the one time
Adriana Herrera 1:12:10 / #
Where did he take you before you gave him your flower?
Andie Christopher 1:12:17 / #
the pandemic flower
Sarah MacLean 1:12:19 / #
No, everyone, there was a time when LaQuette was like I have something to say. And literally, it was like, Oh, I envision the video of that montage in the film of us all, like leaping over furniture to get to our zoom. It's gonna be like that, Andie, every time you have a date, we're gonna leap over furniture to get to the zoom.
Adriana Herrera 1:12:40 / #
We're gonna have to start a whole new texting thread just for your date.
Sarah MacLean 1:12:43 / #
Because we don't have enough
Nisha Sharma 1:12:46 / #
Can we get back to THE KINGPIN'S WEAKNESS where he basically is like, I killed for you. And she's like, I'm so turned on! Andie, just make sure it's not that
Sarah MacLean 1:13:00 / #
I've got to say though, that works for me, if somebody killed for me, I probably do the same. It's hot.
Adriana Herrera 1:13:08 / #
if you're dating, if you're dating the greatest criminal mind.
Sarah MacLean 1:13:14 / #
He better kill For me, he better kill for me. It's Chekov's Gun is right there on the table.
Jennifer Prokop 1:13:21 / #
I could come back from the dead. She would thank him after he killed all those people. That is just how it goes.
Alexis Daria 1:13:28 / #
Yep. Yeah. As an aside, I was listening to Joanna's book. What was the third one in the Uptown Girls trilogy?
Jennifer Prokop 1:13:36 / #
The Devil of Downtown.
Alexis Daria 1:13:36 / #
I was listening to the audio book without headphones on while doing a puzzle, and my boyfriend was in the room, and they were describing him, Jack?
Adriana Herrera 1:13:51 / #
He dirty.
Alexis Daria 1:13:52 / #
He was the biggest criminal mastermind in all of New York City. And he also spoke 12 languages and played the piano like a god and my boyfriend was like...what?!
Sarah MacLean 1:14:03 / #
I mean when Jack killed you're like, what can we do? Can I get On top of him right now? Yeah, jack doesn't have to say it though. I would know I'd be like, Jack I saw what you did.
Andie Christopher 1:14:16 / #
I need to see the Uptown girls on Netflix.
Adriana Herrera 1:14:20 / #
Oh my god. Oh, yeah, please, please.
Sarah MacLean 1:14:23 / #
Where do I sign that change.org petition
Adriana Herrera 1:14:26 / #
The only person I would let have Henry Cavill for that part Is you, for Jack.
Jennifer Prokop 1:14:36 / #
Another really weird thing I love about Jessa Kane books that has nothing to do with any of the sex stuff. A lot of these bitches have real interesting jobs. And I just appreciate that. There is one where the woman wants to be a roller coaster designer,
Jennifer Prokop 1:14:54 / #
You know what, this is fucking great because again, it reminds me a lot of 80s romances where they all have, they want to go to school, you know what I mean? And not all of them, sometimes they're just ingenues, but this one with the roller coaster designer I was like that is so nice and specific.
Sarah MacLean 1:15:10 / #
In THEIR SUMMER INTERN, she is a bungee jumping tester. She tests the bungee jumping harness.
Adriana Herrera 1:15:21 / #
You know Jessa is watching National Geographic and being like I'm gonna make the next one a bungee jumper,
Sarah MacLean 1:15:27 / #
But, you guys it all ties together, it's just very clever. She's testing the harness and then their evil mother, she rigs the harness and there she is just dangling off the edge of a bungee cord. Luckily, she has upper body strength for days, able to hang on and twist herself into it like an aerialist. And then they pull her up, and they're so upset and then they go fuck her. They take her home, they fuck her, they go after their mother who then like somehow escapes jail, or makes bail and gets out, and then finds her and tries to drown her in a swimming pool. But then, they get there, too.
Alexis Daria 1:16:08 / #
Which book is this?
Sarah MacLean 1:16:10 / #
THEIR SUMMER INTERN.
Tracey Livesay 1:16:14 / #
I was like, it could be HER 2 PROTECTORS, it's all, it all of them. Are
LaQuette 1:16:17 / #
Are there any like relatives in this with the intern?
Sarah MacLean 1:16:20 / #
Yeah, two brothers! LaQuette, I know. I'm so sorry. I'm very gauche.
Andie Christopher 1:16:32 / #
I literally read these and I'm like, Oh, that's gonna be a problem for me. And by the end of the book it's not.
Sarah MacLean 1:16:37 / #
And then I'm like, sure.
Adriana Herrera 1:16:39 / #
You know what, I feel like there's just, first of all, and again, this is what I have discovered about myself with taboo romance. You give it to me, in short, short, small portions. I can roll with most things.
Sarah MacLean 1:16:53 / #
You can't put it down, that the trick. If you put it down, you're not going back.
Alexis Daria 1:16:57 / #
I was thinking about how we're telling a lot about these stories, but we're barely scratching the surface of what is happening in these books. And they're a dollar!
Alexis Daria 1:17:11 / #
99 cents or you can get it for free on KU.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:14 / #
In HIS SUMMER INTERN, she escapes and asylum! they've been keeping her captive!
Sarah MacLean 1:17:23 / #
WHAT! and then she becomes an author's
Jennifer Prokop 1:17:25 / #
No, she runs away and she stumbles across his cottage
Joanna Shupe 1:17:29 / #
in the woods.
Jennifer Prokop 1:17:30 / #
And he thinks, Oh, this is my intern.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:34 / #
And he's like, wait a minute, she's not but I'm not gonna tell her I know, because I'm really into her.
Alexis Daria 1:17:40 / #
Because now he's in love with her already.
Adriana Herrera 1:17:42 / #
He's imprinted on her
Alexis Daria 1:17:45 / #
there's a lot of cabins in the woods.
Sarah MacLean 1:17:47 / #
As a Life PSA, you should not be interning with a survivalist author in the woods. Like if you get that internship you need to not go
Joanna Shupe 1:17:59 / #
that's the unabomber right there.
Adriana Herrera 1:18:01 / #
Yes, yes.
Andie Christopher 1:18:03 / #
Can we talk about THE LONER'S LADY, with like the girl who went to her like, Oh, she was pretending to be this, young gay man's. She was a beard.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:17 / #
Right. Wait, it's her and her best friend.
Andie Christopher 1:18:19 / #
It's her and her best friend, going to visit his dad because he didn't think his dad would accept him for who he was. But it turns out that the dad knew [he was gay] and he was like, "that's cool, whatever." And but then the dad was like, but I want to fuck your best friend.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:39 / #
Yeah, and the best part is the friend kind of sees the attraction between these two and pretends to have a bunch of homework. So those two can get it on all over the woods.
Sarah MacLean 1:18:50 / #
Is this another Jessa Kane book that we're talking about? [it is! The Loner's Lady]
Adriana Herrera 1:18:53 / #
Yes. Yes. And also there's a lot of having sex on the grass.
Jennifer Prokop 1:18:58 / #
Yes. Oh, God she can do anything
Sarah MacLean 1:19:00 / #
Very outdoors, against the house. against a tree.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:05 / #
Yeah.
Andie Christopher 1:19:08 / #
A lot of things that would chafe.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:10 / #
There's a line, there's a line in PREACHER MAN when he tells her, "I've come so many times against your house, like the wall of your house, I've worn down the paint." And I told myself, "the quarantine has done things to you Adriana."
Tracey Livesay 1:19:39 / #
It's not healthy.
Adriana Herrera 1:19:44 / #
Look at Tracey! It's not healthy, it's not.
Sarah MacLean 1:19:47 / #
Tracey is concerned about his liquid intake.
Tracey Livesay 1:19:53 / #
Also, they have a lot. There's always like there's so much
Adriana Herrera 1:19:58 / #
Oh yeah. Mmm, hmm. there's a very like Pornhub feel to it.
Sarah MacLean 1:20:04 / #
Like a sprinkler like a garden sprinkler.
Tracey Livesay 1:20:07 / #
A gusher. Yeah.
Jennifer Prokop 1:20:12 / #
A friend of mine read some romance for the first time and she was like, there's a lot of really weird things about romance like, but one is the idea that like individual jets of sperm can be felt.
Adriana Herrera 1:20:28 / #
we roll with it.
Andie Christopher 1:20:31 / #
LaQuette is Done with all of us. She's like,
Sarah MacLean 1:20:36 / #
I would like my voice removed, my track removed.
Adriana Herrera 1:20:41 / #
Take My square out.
Sarah MacLean 1:20:43 / #
LaQuette is president of RWA
LaQuette 1:20:46 / #
I am not the president of RWA, I am the president elect of RWA
LaQuette 1:20:52 / #
either way, If you like it, I love it.
LaQuette 1:20:55 / #
I don't you know, I don't yuck on other people's yum.
Jennifer Prokop 1:20:59 / #
Back when we did the pegging episode, Sarah. Yeah. I just feel like maybe this is like our New Year's plan is
Sarah MacLean 1:21:10 / #
Oh, well, this is what I was gonna say. Right? Well, yeah, we we are putting this episode out on New Year's Eve as like, last year, we did pegging on New Year's Eve and we put it out a little early on New Year's Eve. So this year, we'll do the same and it'll be like the fun kind of raunchy episode for New Year's Eve, but it was really fun. And maybe we just have this crew back every year.
Joanna Shupe 1:21:34 / #
I don't think Jessa has pegging on the trope wheel.
Andie Christopher 1:21:37 / #
She doesn't!
Adriana Herrera 1:21:39 / #
She should put it in.
Nisha Sharma 1:21:40 / #
Yeah, I want to call her and tell her aliens and pegging
Sarah MacLean 1:21:43 / #
time travel pegging. I'd have
Adriana Herrera 1:21:47 / #
Barbs. pegging aliens.
Alexis Daria 1:21:50 / #
I thought QUEEN SIZE was gonna go there because she was like, can't get my virginity because I got to participate in the stupid wife auction. And like, they kind of like skirted around that like, oh, maybe this, but like they didn't do that they did something else instead.
Adriana Herrera 1:22:06 / #
I mean, if she needs to take it to pegging, she should just take it and normalize it
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:14 / #
it's 2021 So yeah, that's, I guess. Okay.
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:18 / #
And so we have time travel , pegging , aliens , Barbs, those go together.What else?
Sarah MacLean 1:22:24 / #
Wait, can I ask the teacher one is HIS PRIZE PUPIL but they're not really teacher student.
Joanna Shupe 1:22:29 / #
So they are.
Andie Christopher 1:22:30 / #
they eventually are. Yeah.
Joanna Shupe 1:22:33 / #
Not at first
Jennifer Prokop 1:22:33 / #
She's taking a photography class from him. And he is her
Joanna Shupe 1:22:37 / #
she's got to sell her virginity. So she ends up at the town, Like madam's, you know, place.
Sarah MacLean 1:22:45 / #
every town has a madam.
LaQuette 1:22:47 / #
It's Always transactional, like why?
Adriana Herrera 1:22:55 / #
I honestly think Jessa has her ID list, laminated and on the wall of her desks. And it's like, it's like 10 things and that's what she's doing.
Jennifer Prokop 1:23:07 / #
It's like a deck of cards and she just shuffles.
Alexis Daria 1:23:09 / #
So that's all of our homework assignment is to like print out our ID list.
Joanna Shupe 1:23:13 / #
Yeah, make me into a wheel.
Adriana Herrera 1:23:17 / #
I don't have a wheel but I might do that. That's a good idea.
Joanna Shupe 1:23:27 / #
For whatever you come up with, take three or four of them, make them work somehow
Sarah MacLean 1:23:32 / #
that moment when you get stuck at the end of a chapter and you're like what comes next just spin the wheel done.
Nisha Sharma 1:23:38 / #
So for...
Sarah MacLean 1:23:39 / #
virginity sale
Nisha Sharma 1:23:41 / #
I think what we should do is we should get our ID list together and create summaries of stories and in 2021 be like, is this a Jessa Kane book or not? Or is that like part of Nisha's ID?
Sarah MacLean 1:23:54 / #
Yes, very fun. Anyway, we hope that Jessa Kane, This episode was really done out of love. Jessa if you are listening, we really do love you and we're we think that you're fabulous. If you've never read a Jessa Kane book, you can get them all on Kindle Unlimited, except for the one where they fuck in front of a priest, which you have to get on iBooks.
Sarah MacLean 1:24:26 / #
Sorry, what did you say Jen?
Jennifer Prokop 1:24:29 / #
There is a second Jessa Kane / Alexa Riley crossover book that is also available on iBooks only because Alexa Riley, you know,
Sarah MacLean 1:24:36 / #
isn't in Kindle so you can do that. They are all on Kindle Unlimited, but you don't have to have Kindle unlimited. You can also buy them for 99 cents a pop on your Kindle.
Jennifer Prokop 1:24:51 / #
This is like, you know, deplatforming of certain Jessa Kane books out of your Kindle unlimited library. They just stay there forever. Yeah, I believe
Andie Christopher 1:25:01 / #
These books literally became a part of my soul during quarantine. I mean they probably really are really going to send me to hell.
Andie Christopher 1:25:10 / #
but we are also
Adriana Herrera 1:25:16 / #
There's no Hell in Jessa Kane's universe.
Sarah MacLean 1:25:18 / #
No, no, no. We are releasing this early on New Year's Eve. So if you have nothing to do this New Year's Eve if you are in your house quarantining and being safe, we hope you are being safe and everybody's being healthy and wearing their masks and if you're in your house and you're looking for something to do, you can read like five or 10 of these tonight.
Andie Christopher 1:25:42 / #
Charge your Lelo vibrators before you download.
Nisha Sharma 1:25:49 / #
Plug everything in, sanitize, please.
Adriana Herrera 1:25:55 / #
Be sanitar!
Tracey Livesay 1:25:57 / #
I just went Oh boy.
Sarah MacLean 1:26:00 / #
No, this has been Andie Christopher and Joanna Shoop and Alexis Daria and Nisha Sharma and Tracey Livesey and LaQuette and Adriana Herrera. I'm Sarah MacLean. Jen is Jen reads romance. And this has been a very special episode of drunk romance history and Fated Mates, watch drunk romance history at Andie's Instagram feed. Andie, where can people find you?
Adriana Herrera 1:26:28 / #
ATauthor AndieJ. Almost everyone on this chat has been on drunk romance history. Joanna is scheduled in January, Alexis, we're still putting you down. You're gonna get Valentine's Day just so you know.
Alexis Daria 1:26:45 / #
I still have to pick a book.
Sarah MacLean 1:26:47 / #
But we will put on show notes for Fated Mates. We will put links to everybody's drunk romance history. We'll put links to everybody's website so that you can find all these people in their amazing books. These are some of our favorite people. And we are so excited. Thank you all for making time for us this week on a holiday week.
Jennifer Prokop 1:27:05 / #
Yeah. I'm gonna get off the phone and we're gonna make the Jessa Kane trope wheel, have you have that. And then to help us with the making the spreadsheet pretty and that's all going to be amazing.
Sarah MacLean 1:27:17 / #
And you can find us at Fated mates.net and Happy New Year everyone makes 2021
Another AMA with Sarah and Jen
It’s the Holidays and the end of 2020 and we don’t really know what’s happening, but Eric is keeping us honest with another AMA! This one was recorded during our Fated States postcard writing party for Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock — the Democratic candidates for the Senate Runoff in Georgia — answering reader questions that came in during the live recording!
We talk about pen names, working class heroes, whether or not you should DNF books, and Rasputin’s penis.
Come back tomorrow for a special treat, and get ready for our first read along of 2021, Alexis Hall’s For Real. Get it at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Kobo.
Show Notes
One more phone banking opportunity for the Georgia Senate runoff is coming up on January 4, 2021 from 5-7 central. Join us!
You should watch Drunk Romance History on Andie's Instagram.
If you want more romance novels made into TV shows, you should watch Virgin River and Bridgerton. But everyone is watching Bridgerton, so that's great.
We rattled off a bunch of historical romances with working heroes. Dreaming of You, of course, and American-set historicals, like Indigo by Beverly Jenkins. In England, A Matter of Disagreement by EE Ottoman, The Lady's Guide to Mischief and Mayhem by Manda Collins, Thief of Shadows by Elizabeth Hoyt, The Lawrence Browne Affair by Cat Sebastian, Honeytrap by Glen Aster Gray. Almost every KJ Charles book would qualify, as well as many by Sophie Jordan and Anne Mallory. Also, don't forget Sarah's Bareknuckle Bastards series.
Annika Martin writes all the best bananas books.
Rachel Hawkins is writing contemporary adult witches under the name Erin Sterling.
Some historicals with characters from Imperial Russia? That's tough, but Sarah suggests the Stokehurst Duology from Lisa Kleypas, the first is Midnight Angel. And if you have kids interested in this time period, check out The Family Romonov by Candace Fleming. There is nothing about Rasputin's penis in that book, be assured.
S03.20: Romance Families
It's the holidays and we're talking family romances because many of us are with our families or thinking about them this week. No matter whether you have a perfect family life or one that's a bit more of a journey, romances focusing on families have been around from the beginning -- this week, we're talking royal houses like the Westmorelands and the Malorys, the LeVeqs and the Montgomeries, and the Holmeses and the Hathaways. We also talk a lot about our own families...which was unintended, but there it is.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order here!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful! For the next week or so, we've got a lot of fun stuff in the hopper -- be on the lookout for a few extra episodes!
And, if you're celebrating this week -- Merry Christmas!
Show Notes
Richard Gere wasn’t old when he filmed Pretty Woman, even though he was going gray.
Samantha Jaxon posted a very upsetting TikTok, and that's all we have to say about that.
The days of the big and small envelope in college admissions are over, but they do have the Common App and that seems nice.
Maybe, you too, would like a karaoke microphone for your future weather-person.
The 1987 movie Roxanne with Steve Martin and Daryl Hannah is a Cyrano retelling, and it has lots of very funny jokes and one-liners.
There is one more phone-banking opportunity on January 4, 2021. You should join us!
Bridgerton drops on December 25th, along with Wonder Woman 1984. Virgin River is another Netflix show based on a romance series.
Just a heads up about the photo array, I’m just including the first book of a family series because otherwise it will be overwhelming!
70s and 80s Old School romance series with families include: the Malorys by Johanna Lindsey, The Montgomerys and Taggerts by Jude Deveraux, and the Westmorelands by Judith McNaught.
90s families: the LeVeq family by Beverly Jenkins, The Cynster family by Stephanie Laurens, the Rocking M series by Elizabeth Lowell.
2000s families: Brenda Jackson’s Westmoreland family, the Essex Sisters by Eloisa James, The Holmes Brothers by Farrah Rochon, and the Hathaways by Lisa Kleypas.
2010s families: The Blackshear family by Cecilia Grant, The Ravenels by Kleypas, the Duke’s Daughters by Megan Frampton, the Mackenzie series by Jennifer Ashley, the Greene sisters in the Uptown Girls series by Joanna Shupe, the Talbot sisters in Sarah’s Scandal and Scoundrel series, the von Hasenberg sisters in the Consortium Rebellion series by Jessie Mihalik, the Hidden Legacy series by Ilona Andrews, and the Sullivans by Bella Andre.
Brenda Jackson was the first Black romance author to hit the New York Times bestseller list with the book Irresistible Forces in 2008. It's not a Westmoreland book, but the Westmoreland series is currently 30+ books and growing.
S03.19: The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever by Julia Quinn: Because everyone else is doing the Bridgertons
BRIDGERTON is nearly here! Make sure you have batteries in your remote and your Netflix subscription is up to date, because on 12/25, Julia Quinn’s Bridgerton series is coming to your TV courtesy of Shonda Rhimes! We are EXTREMELY EXCITED, and in honor of the series, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn romance which, *surprise!* isn’t a Bridgerton book!
If you want Bridgerton deep dives, do not miss the series at Learning the Tropes with our amazing friends Erin & Clayton. But we’re reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever, and we’ve got a LOT to say!
Content note: This book and episode discusses miscarriage and pregnancy.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order here!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful! Next week, we’ve got an interstitial, and the following week…honestly, who knows? It’s December! It could be ANYTHING!
Show Notes
Can we brag for a minute? Our #FatedStates phone bank appeared in the Washington Post this week! Also, if you're looking for phone banking opportunites, we have one tonight 12/16 at 5 central, and another on 1/4/2021. Join us.
December 25th is going to be a great day. Bridgerton drops on Netflix and Wonder Woman 1984 will be on HBO Max.
If you want a podcast tackling all of the Bridgerton books, check out Learning the Tropes. Sarah was on the episode for Sir Philip with Love, which is her favorite. Jen’s favorite is The Viscount Who Loved Me, and if it’s yours maybe you’d like a “mallet of death” t-shirt from Linda. Her shop is on hiatus right now, but she'll be back in the new year.
Here’s the Ted talk with Elizabeth Gilbert, author of Eat, Pray, Love.
Does Olivia get her own book? Of course she does, it’s called What Happens in London.
Sarah’s favorite Jane Austen is Emma. Jen’s favorite Jane Austen is none of them.
If you want to see some house party games in action, watch Season 4 of the Crown.
Megan Markle recently wrote about her miscarriage in the New York Times. Jen wrote about miscarriage back when she blogged for The Book Queen, and it includes discussion of Sarah’s book, Day of the Duchess.
The book with all the former heroes sharing their childbirth war stories is...well, we don't remember. If you do, please tell us!
S03.18: Julie Garwood Interstitial: Damnit, Sara! (Not our Sarah!)
This week, we tried something a little different—recording a live interstitial episode! We’re talking about Jen’s formative queen, Julie Garwood, and we dig into dialogue, alphas who are instantly gone for their heroines, heroines who tame wild animals, arranged marriages between children, and why every Garwood historical feels medieval whether or not it actually is.
We recorded this episode live during a Fated States postcard-writing party to get out the vote for the January 5th runoff election in Georgia. If you’re a Georgia voter, please vote for Jon Ossoff and Reverend Raphael Warnock, and let’s finish what we started with the blue wave! If you’re up for it, please consider joining us for a phonebanking session on the evening of January 4th!
Next week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix (coming December 25th!), we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
Fated States is gearing up to phone bank on the evening of Jan 4 from 5-7 central time. Join us if you can!
Sarah mentioned seeing Berkley editor Cindy Hwang on a panel--it doesn't appear to have been recorded, but here is the description of the panel.
In Sarah’s OSRBC facebook group, there’s a longstanding search for a book where two people are on a beach and a wave throws them together, and then “oops they’re boning.” A few folks have suggested that maybe it was Pirate by Fabio. So check it out. His co-writer (a ghost writer is when they are unnamed) is Eugenia Rielly.
A teenage horror/romance that both Jen and Kelly loved was called The Ghosts of Departure Point. Probably came from the Scholastic Book Club, if we’re being honest.
In case you’re wondering, the copyright page will tell you if you’re holding a first printing or first edition. Here’s a bunch of people talking about why the edges of paperbacks were dyed.
RT Book Reviews and the RT conference once had Julie Garwood and Jude Deveraux on stage at the same time, and YouTube has the video! When Coronavirus is over, I highly recommend going to KissCon.
Nora Roberts is our Queen and last week a poor unfortunate soul named Debra learned that the hard way.
Obviously, Luke grew up on Tatooine. Hoth was that ice planet place, which is why the women in the Ice Planet Barbarians series call their new home Not-Hoth.
We’d be interested in hearing your interpretation of The Bechdel Test. Jen thinks the women can still talk about men AS LONG AS they also talk about other stuff, but Sarah thought it required no discussion of men at all which is pretty tough to find in romance. FWIW, Jen mentioned it in regards to The Bride because Jamie is so isolated and largely without women friends.
We like prologues and epilogues here at Fated Mates, but we understand not everyone agrees.
The feud between the families in The Gift is “like the Montagues and the Capulets, but worse.” Speaking of which, Kate Clayborn’s upcoming book, Love At First, is an homage to Romeo and Juliet.
This isn't exactly about the life expectancy in Scotland was in 1100, but it's close enough.
Vanessa Riley’s site has a great explainer about Black people during the Regency on her site. We talked about the Carribean in the Regency when we read Gentle Rogue.
It wasn't a "rip off" of Home Alone, it was just an allusion. Similarly, Nathan's whip reminded Sarah of Indiana Jones.
Are these books on audio? Why yes they are and Jen listened to The Bride in between recording and release of the episode and greatly enjoyed it.
Next week, we're reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever by Julia Quinn
S03.17: The Hating Game by Sally Thorne: Lucy! Obviously Danny didn't send the roses!
There aren’t many recent romances you can point to and categorically label as game changers, but Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game definitely fits this bill. We talk about all the ways we love it, about sparkling dialogue and witty writing and what makes a romcom and how this book changed the cover game for a generation of romance. Oh, and yes, we get to the bottom (jk, there is no bottom) of Jen’s issues with first-person present.
You still have time to buy the Fated Mates Best of 2020 Book Pack from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Order before December 5th for Christmas delivery!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial, and the following week, in advance of the launch of the Bridgerton series on Netflix, we’re reading Sarah’s favorite Julia Quinn novel, The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Fated States
Show Notes
Bridget Jones’s Diary came out in 1996 and the movie came out in 2001.
Enemies to Lovers is a completely beloved romance trope. Rivals to lovers lives within the larger trope and is very fun because it is often a perfectly matched pair on an even playing field. Sarah wrote Brazen & the Beast after being inspired by The Hating Game.
Here’s what we mean when we say situational comedy.
Jen hates present tense, but of course everyone should write what’s right for them.
Is it chick lit or is it women’s fiction? Why do these labels even exist? Just go back and read The Girl’s Guide to Hunting and Fishing or Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner.
We don’t talk about voice that much, but maybe we should.
There was a short lived Harlequin chick lit line called Red Dress Ink in 2001.
Here’s what Jen teaches her kids about characterization.
The Slate article about interiors and a very thorough rebuttal from Felicia Davin.
We talked about another hero who came up through Twilight fanfic.
If you like a scene where one main character tells off the family on behalf of their beloved, you should read Her Naughty Holiday by Tiffany Reisz.
In two weeks, we'll be reading The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever. We are getting ready for Bridgerton and Wonder Woman 1984.
If you're interested in the Fated Mates Best of 2020 book pack and you want it delivered by Christmas, make sure you order it by 12/5.
S03.16: Best Romance Novels of 2020
The Best Romance Novels of 2020!
It’s the best and worst task of the year for us, because we read so many AMAZING books over the course of the year, and choosing ten and not one hundred is hard for us, ok? But here they are — ten gorgeous books that we adored—books with badass heroines, larger-than-life heroes, brilliant structure, and outstanding writing.
Buy the Fated Mates Best of Book Pack in one fell swoop from our friends at Old Town Books in Alexandria Virginia, and get the seven traditionally published books on the list, a Fated Mates sticker and a candle from the bookstore! Support fabulous authors and a woman-owned independent bookstore all at once!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Next week, we get back to doing what we do best: Reading Romance! We’re deep-diving on Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game. Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
The Best Romance Novels of 2020
Fated States
Interested in phone banking or writing postcards to voters in Georgia? Join us for our upcoming Fated States events: phone banking on 12/2/20 and 1/4/2021 and postcards on 12/5/2020.
Show Notes
Consider buying a Fated Mates pack of 7 of our 10 books (it doesn't include the self-published books) from Old Town Books in Alexandria, Virgina. You can also check out our Bookshop link.
Can you believe that RWA debacle was 11 months ago?
So you want to hear us talk about A Heart of Blood and Ashes, Like Lovers Do, Queen Move, or The Devil of Downtown?
Cold War history is fascinating. Not only all the nuclear stuff, but Sarah's story about K Blows Top sounds fascinating.
Some LitFic novels that play around with dual storylines are The French Lieutenant’s Woman, Possession, and the more romance adjacent Secret History of the Pink Carnation.
All about danger banging. And of course there’s a button for that.
Tammany Hall is often used as a historical example of total police corruption.
Up next week, we'll be reading The Hating Game by Sally Thorne.
S03.15: Menage Romance with Katee Robert
It’s getting colder out there, so we’re getting hot in here! We’ve got the fabulous Katee Robert with us to talk about ménage romance and why she writes them so well. We get to the bottom of why it always gets shoved into the taboo corner of romance, the fantasy of the trope, and why we like it so very much. Also, we topple the TBR (as usual)!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Slight change of schedule to accommodate a fun thing we’re up to…next week, just in time for your Thanksgiving sloth, we’re announcing our best books of 2020! The following week, we’re reading Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game! Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
Welcome Katee Robert!
You can’t just make wikipedia pages about yourself.
High fantasy has real meaning.
When talking about romance, M and F (and NB for nonbinary) are used to inform readers about the gender identity of the main characters. This is an imperfect shorthand, but at this point in our understanding of sex and gender, it seems like the most respectful way to acknowledge that there is a huge range of sexual identities that exist for people of all genders. For example, if we call a book with two women “a lesbian romance” it might not take into account that one character is bisexual, which adds to bi-erasure. So if a romance is labeled M/F, we know there is a man and a woman in a romantic relationship, but that leaves room for the sexual identity of the characters to be fully explored in the book. In romance with more than two people, the order of the letters matters. A book that is MFM would mean that the two men do not have a sexual relationship with each other, while FMM or MMF means that they do.
There is nothing taboo about polyamory.
Jen liked the progression of menage in Elle Kennedy’s Out of Uniform series. The series starts with a non-swords crossing threesome, Hot and Bothered. The observing one was Heat of the Night (available in the Hot and Heavy anthology), where Ryan watches Annabelle have sex with his roommate. But as the series progresses, there is contact between the SEALs in Feeling Hot and a fully formed menage relationship in Hotter Than Ever.
Ellora’s Cave and Samhain were two of the original (and now shuttered) indie publishers that specialized in erotic romance and/or taboo romance.
That article in Harpers about how men don’t have friends.
The Anita Blake series went through a lot of changes, so just go with Katee’s method and start with #9, Obsidian Butterfly.
Katee will be back to talk about morality chain in 2021.
Next week, we’ll be airing our Best of 2020 episode, and then the first week of December, we’ll be discussing The Hating Game.
S03.14: Our 100th Episode! Fated Mates Live
ONE HUNDRED EPISODES!
You’ve seen us through Immortals After Dark, through Books that Blooded Us, and through a presidential election, so if there was any doubt that you’re stuck with us, put that right out of your mind! We love you so much for listening…and we hope you have as much fun listening to this episode as we had recording it!
Thanks to Tracey Livesay, Andie J Christopher, Kate Clayborn, Christina Lauren, Adriana Herrera, Nisha Sharma and Joanna Shupe for joining us, and to Steve Ammidown for popping in to say hi!
Next week, we have an interstitial coming, and the following week, we’re back on read alongs with Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game! Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
Show Notes
In between when we recorded and when you're listening, something great happened.
How did Hollywood Squares work? What did the theme song sound like? What does Whoopi Goldberg have to do with it?
Fated States will be back! One of our dedicated phone bankers and the head of the OSRBC-IAD book discussion, Caroline, had an amazing experience when she was phone banking the week before the election. And we are not at all jealous about her amazing gift basket from Kresley Cole!
Check out Milla Vane on the Wicked Wallflowers podcast.
Andie Christopher hosts Drunk Romance History on her Instagram feed every Saturday and it’s hilarious. Sarah joined her Saturday after a full day of Election drinking to talk Suddenly You.
Do you know the book where a wave causes accidental penetration for a couple on a beach? NEITHER DO WE!
Here’s the link to all the slides for Fuck, Marry, Kill and Would Derek Craven. And here are all the Title Smash slides.
We invented a holiday. No big.
We love Philadelphia. Gritty was an unexpected hero of the 2020 election. Now you know all about the Philadelphia Left.
The Danielle Steele thread from Steve Ammidown at the Browne Pop Culture Library.
We really need to talk about the 80s blockbusters The Thorn Birds, Clan of the Cave Bear, and Flowers in the Attic (and powdered donuts).
It was Buffy and Spike in the mausoleum, not Buffy and Angel.
We can't find the TikTok of Paul Rudd and his son, but instead we'll discuss if anyone knows where Michael J. Fox got his cloning machine?
We’ll leave you to contemplate the whole “hero pooping” theory on your own, but we all know for sure that Elvis poops.
S03.13: Fated States Author Recommendations
The last six weeks have been rough, but Fated Mates listeners and a wild number of Romance Authors made them easier by being a part of Fated States, our weekly phonebanking initiative with Indivisible Action. We don’t know how yesterday went, but we know we are so incredibly proud to have worked alongside so many listeners who volunteered their time to phonebank, and so many amazing authors who donated books to phone bankers!
On this episode, we rec books by every author who donated free books to Fated States — all 49 of them! Your TBR is going to be full for years after this one! We promise! Special shout out to Julia Quinn, Suzanne Brockmann, AJ Cousins, Carrie Ann Ryan & Cassandra Carr, who each donated books to EVERY phonebanker, once a week for five weeks.
Below, in Show Notes, you’ll find a full list of the books we recommend, and links to Amazon. You can buy print versions of books and support independent bookstores at our bookshop.org shop!
AND…thanks to our sister pods, Heaving Bosoms, Learning the Tropes and The Wicked Wallflowers, who donated podcasting swag, and to BestFriendKelly for stickers!
IMPORTANT UPDATE: This Thursday, November 5th, we’ll be recording our 100th Episode LIVE on Zoom, and we want you to be there! Join us and special guests, for games, laughter, romance recommendations, and as much joy as you can handle. Sign up here.
Next week, we’ll release the 100th Episode for those of you who can’t make it Thursday, and the following week, we’re back on read alongs with Sally Thorne’s The Hating Game! Get it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie via bookshop.org.
S03.12: The Immigrant Story and Joy in Romance with Adriana Herrera
The fabulous Adriana Herrera is here for her fourth time to talk about Joy! We had a great time with one of the greatest people this week — talking about the American immigrant experience, how hope and bravery make for beautiful love stories, and listing a huge number of books that we love.
IMPORTANT UPDATE: Next Thursday, November 5th, we’ll be recording our 100th Episode LIVE on Zoom, and we want you to be there! Join us and special guests, for games, laughter, romance recommendations, and as much joy as you can handle. Come on…you know you want something to look forward to next week! Let it be this! Sign up here.
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome back, Adriana Herrera! She’s been on a few times so far: Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night, the food romance episode, and she and Jen talked about trauma in romance. This week, her March 2020 release American Sweethearts appeared on the Publisher’s Weekly Best of 2020 List.
Normalize pegging at all costs.
If you’re going to come to the phone bank this weekend dressed as a romance heroine, might we suggest you drape a mantilla over your head and carry a pistol? You’ll be a dead ringer for Jessica Trent from Lord of Scoundrels. Sarah was on a panel with Loretta Chase a few weeks ago, and I guess the only blessing of these Zoom times is watching these things online. IS THERE A LINK TO THIS?
Adriana has written a few pieces about immigration in romance, one for Bustle and one for Remezcla.
Just a quick primer, because we didn’t clarify these definitions on the podcast and it’s complicated, because both terms are widely used to describe the same group of people--American-born children of immigrants. While Sarah grew up thinking of herself as "first-generation," many modern academics & the Census label her as "second-generation." Here's a cool article on all the terms, and how they've evolved.
Also, it’s useful to know the difference between push and pull factors that drive immigration.
If you want to read a terrific immigrant superhero story, Jen recommends a graphic novel she teaches to her 7th graders, The Shadow Hero by Gene Yang. She’s also really loved his recent release Dragon Hoops.
Adriana loves the podcast On Being, hosted by Krista Tippet. The episode with Ocean Vuong, author of On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous, features some interesting discussion of his own immigrant story.
We do not recommend reading American Dirt, but you should know the story of how and why it was published, some ideas about why publishing was so eager to sell this particular story from a variety of Latinx authors and thinkers.
When Adriana mentioned “the fun kind of thrust” she is referencing Jenny Nordbak’s best advice for finding a sex scene in a book: search for the word “thrust.”
Diacritical marks are symbols added to letters which tells the speaker how to correctly pronounce the word. In The Bride Test, the same words have diacritical marks when spoken by Esme, a character newly immigrated from Vietnam, but do not have them when spoken by Vietnamese-Americans. Also, language loss in the children of immigrant families is a well-documented phenomena.
The Worst Best Man has recently been optioned as a movie!
Take a look at the cultural iceberg.
Nigeria and SARS and what you can do about it.
Jeannette Ng’s piece, Critiquing Cultural Appropriation in Books That Are Kinda Meh, is about the pressure to research and how it undermines the lived experience of #OwnVoices authors.
Jen mentioned a piece in Kirkus called 100 books by Cynthia Leitich Smith, which argues “Before trying to write any character outside one’s lived experience, I recommend reading at least 100 books* by authors from that community. To start.” By the way, Smith is the author of a terrific YA novel called Hearts Unbroken if you’re interested.
Trujillo was terrible! Don’t steal Adriana’s idea to write a story about the Japanese-Dominican people who were living on the border of the Domenican Republic and Haiti.
Ethiopia and its capital Addis Ababa are fascinating places. Adriana and her partner lived there for five years. Also, the lions of Ethiopia are genetically distinct from other lions.
When it comes to holiday shopping, October is the new December. Sarah wrote a long thread of some of her favorite local indies that carry romance. Support them if you can.
S03.11: Comfort Reads with Dani Lacey
It’s comfort read week! What makes a comfort read, why do we turn to them, what do we want from them, and why on earth do blue aliens fit the bill?! This week, we all need a comfort read, and we’re joined by Dani Lacey, host of Ice Planet Pod and Black Chick Lit Podcast, to talk about all things comfort reads!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 5 this Saturday, October 24th at 3pm Eastern to call South Carolina! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Dani Lacey, host of Ice Planet Pod and Black Chick Lit podcast. Black Chick Lit is a podcast Dani hosts with her friend Mollie, and the focus is books by and about Black women. Ice Planet Pod has different guests every week, and Jen has been on and Sarah will be on!
Some of the specific Ice Planet Podcast episodes that Dani mentioned: she did one with her friend Mollie from Black Chick Lit, Jen talked about what would happen if Wedding Magazines existed on that world, and the latest release was with author Katrina Jackson.
All about Hoopla and the difference between Hoopla vs Libby (Overdrive). If your public library doesn't have Hoopla, it's probably becasue they can't afford it.
You, too, can have a banana phone. Don't tell Sophie, but Sarah's definitely getting her one of these.
In the Ice Planet books, the khui is the magic thing that “resonates” to tell the two people that they are a destined to be together--it also allows these shipwrecked humans to survive the ice planet, and also to speak the same language.
A couple of times, Dani mentioned “Harlow’s book, and the title of that one is Barbarian Mine.
Jen's friend Julie was a little worried about Chuck Tingle being sad when he released Chuck Tingle Pounded in The Butt by a Knockoff Book that Glorifies a Deadly Tragedy and Doesn't Prove Love is Real Then Accepting This as a Sad Side Effect of Making Wider Positive Impact as an Author, but the following week it was Mike Pence Pounded in the Butt by His Handsome Werefly, so he’s probably fine.
Magic Mike XXL is a pure, beautiful movie about men and their feelings. We highly recommend it.
If you’re a fan of the Stage Dive series, there was a new novella that was released yesterday called Love Song. It’s the book about Adam Dillon, a character that the band mentored in later books in the series.
How the Reddit forum AITA (Am I the Asshole) reveals the sexism of everyday life.
The two audiobook companies are Tantor and Brilliance, but with the huge rise of popularity in audiobooks, lots of audio in now produced in house.
When it comes to the Ice Planet audio, Dani loves the two narrators Hollie Jackson and Mason Lloyd. The Ice Home series, a spin-off of the Ice Planet Barbarians Series, has two new narrators Sean Crisdenand Felicity Munroe. But Jen recently listened to a book narrated by Sean Crisden and it was awesome. So we think you should give the Ice Home audio a try, Dani!
Welcome to Night Vale is a podcast and also a book.
S03.10: Mafia Romance Novels with Nisha Sharma
This week, as part of joy month, we’re joined by Nisha Sharma, author of The Takeover Effect and The Legal Affair, to talk about her favorite trope — Mafia Romances! We talk about why organized crime works in romance, fill your TBR to the brim…and share some real life mafia stories. Or, at least, Sarah does. It’s a lot.
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 4 this Saturday, October 17th at 3pm Eastern to call Iowa! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Welcome Nisha Sharma! She is the author of some of favorites: the YA romance My So Called Bollywood Life, and the Singh family trilogy.
The Fifty Shades movies are lying about lipstick.
Maybe you’d like to learn more about organized crime in Rhode Island, Cleveland, and Scranton. Sarah grew up in Rhode Island and recommends you listen to Crimetown if you're interested in learning more about how far-reaching the mob is there.
When it comes to Capone, we recommend the Chicago tour (if life ever returns to normal) but not the movie with Tom Hardy.
Nisha mentioned a 1970s Bollywood movie. It’s called Sholay, and Nisha said, “Technically it was like this small village bad guy...think old westerns but he had like a gang of hoodlums.”
The big Western movies seem to pop up every ten years, and Brokeback Mountain was 2005!
The list of mafia romance from Goodreads is here, and the queer mafia romance list is here.
Does your gender determine how you relate to mafia movies, books, and TV shows? Or if you participate in real life?
Maybe you want to watch Weeds or Traffic and see some kickass women who are antiheroes?
Erin from Learning the Tropes is on the hunt for books that have heroines that are named Erin, so let her know if you’ve read any. Jen’s list is Ivan and an old Loveswept by Barbara Boswell called Sharing Secrets -- the hero’s name is Rad Ramsey!
Speaking of Ivan and Erin, while working on show notes for this episode, Jen discovered that a second story with these two is coming out in a few weeks!
It is MMA fighting, which stands for Mixed Martial Arts.
We did a deep dive episode on Kresley Cole's The Master in Season 1. Listen to it here.
Jen’s love of Russian mobsters started with Viggo Mortensen in Eastern Promises.
Sons of Anarchy actually does predate the MC romance. The TV show aired from 2008 - 2014, and one of the first MC romances was Motorcycle Man (2012) by Kristen Ashley. After Sons of Anarchy ended, the MC romance genre did grow exponentially, including books like Reaper’s Property by Joanna Wylde (2016).
Jen said the Molly O’Keefe book with the mafia guy and the secret baby was Bad Neighbor, but it’s actually Baby Come Back. You should just go ahead and read them both.
All about the myth of the minotaur.
The big, bad Russians influenced American media for decades.
Online Advertising is the new cement shoes.
Sarah learned about money laundering because of pinball machines. Today's kids get to learn about it because of the President. Sure.
Books Mentioned on the Podcast
S03.09: Christina Lauren on FanFiction and Romance: Blissward is How it Should Be
It’s joy month! We’ve got two of our very favorites with us — Christina Lauren is here with us to discuss fan fiction, romance, their romance origin stories, what they love about fic and how fic makes romance better! We talk about about a thousand books and authors, and do a little giggling too, so strap in!
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next few weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! please join us for a Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it’s so fun! We love seeing so many of your amazing faces there, hanging out, and lifting each other up through absolute anxiety! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 3 this Saturday, October 10th at 3pm Eastern to call Wisconsin! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
Christina Lauren has a new, delightful holiday romance out this week! Find In a Holidaze at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple or at your local indie.
When we recorded, the wildfire situation was particularly grim in California, and it’s still a huge problem facing many Western states. We hope you're all being safe out there.
A brief overview of CLo’s story from fandom to bestselling authors. The first of their published books came from Christina's fic "The Office," and was published as Beautiful Bastard. Sarah loves it a lot.
Wonder Woman 1984 has been postponed because of COVID, and according to the director the film is best seen in a theater. It is not because Robert Pattinson got COVID (He's back to business now). Sarah loves the preview of the new Batman movie.
Our love of Days of Lives couples Jack & Jennifer and Patch & Kayla is eternal and everlasting. (Ps. Jen's favorite scene is not in that video, her search continues.)
The Twilight fandom was vast, as we discussed in this episode. And there are important reasons why many folks are drawn to fandom. Last summer, Alexis Daria and Adriana Herrera talked about fanfiction and fandom on Instagram Live, and it's a great watch.
Christina and Lauren mentioned “canon” and “AU” and AO3 and livejournal and fandom bootcamp and maybe you want a primer on some fanfic terms.
Maybe you also need a primer on a cinnamon roll character.
These hugely popular romance writers came up through fanfic: Sally Thorne, Alice Clayton, Nina Bocci, Tara Sue Me, Amanda Weaver, Rebekah Weatherspoon, Helena Hunting, Daisy Prescott, EL James, and Ruth Clampett. Present-tense, stream of consciousness flow, and intense character work are some of the hallmarks of fandom writing, and some of those stylistic choices have influenced mainstream fiction in multiple genres, including romance.
Did you miss the community experience of The Submissive? Lucky for you, it's now available as a stand alone novel, and the next books in the series The Dominant and The Training also started as fic.
Christina and Lauren and Nina Bocci worked on the Fandom Gives Back fundraiser to benefit Alex’s Lemonade Stand.
Jen said she loves Beautiful Player, but honestly no one will be surprised that she got the title wrong and her real favorite is Beautiful Stranger. Just read all of them. You won't be disappointed.
The question of who owns these stories and the legalities of fanfic is so interesting, and specifically the history of Fifty Shades of Grey as Fanfic.
As promised, a list of CLo recommend fics:
Tropic of Virgo by in.a.blue.bathrobe (aka Kira Gold)
The Blessing and the Curse by theblackarrow (Sally Thorne)
The Best I Ever Had by whatsmynomdeplume
Mr. Horrible by algonquinrt
Creature of Habit by ezrocksangel
The Art Teacher by spanglemaker9
Summer of Salt by lolapops
A Murmur of Fire in the Vein
Scotch, Gin, and the New Girl by wtvoc
S03.08: Serving Pleasure by Alisha Rai: He didn't buy curtains, so frankly it's on him.
This week, we’re talking about a book and author who has given both of us a whole lot of joy — Alisha Rai! We’re reading Serving Pleasure, which is the story of the most relatable of heroines and the outrageously hot painter who moves in next door! Voyeurism, sex positivity and family in romance are all on the table here. We love it.
We’re putting read alongs on hold for a bit to spend the next five weeks hanging out with some of our favorite people and talking about books and tropes that give us joy, so we hope you’ll join us and keep a pen handy so you can add to your TBR list as needed!
Also! We had our first Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org on Saturday — it was great and we loved seeing so many of your amazing faces! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters, and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 2 this Saturday, October 3rd at 3pm Eastern to call North Carolina! It’s easy, not scary, and there will be prizes!
Thank you, as always, for listening! If you are up for leaving a rating or review for the podcast on your podcasting app, we would be very grateful!
Show Notes
It was March of 2015 (a kinder, gentler time) when Jen first Sarah Wendell talking about Alisha Rai on NPR. Later that summer, Sarah put Serving Pleasure in her Washington Post romance column. It was the first self-published book ever reviewed in the Post.
Just this week, Carole Bell wrote about why readers don't pay enough attention to indie and self-published romance for Shondaland.
Pregnant people don't actually get the greatest treatment in the workplace, so thanks Akira.
Is it all that great to be an artist's muse?
S03.07: A Discussion with Julie Moody-Freeman from the Black Romance Podcast
Two episodes in one week! We are doing what we can to take care of you, Fated Maters!
This week, we’ve got Julie Moody-Freeman, professor, self-proclaimed romance nerd, and host of the new “Black Romance Podcast” with us! We’re freewheeling about the importance of oral history, Black romance, romance and academia, her life as a romance reader, her favorite books and authors, and her dream interviews. Subscribe to the Black Romance Podcast at Apple, Overcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting service.
(The audio on this one isn’t up to our usual standards. Sorry about that. We’ll do better next time. -Eric)
We’re back on our regular Wednesday schedule next week, and with a deep dive on Alisha Rai’s Serving Pleasure, a fantastic erotic romance. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Also, we had our first Fated States phonebanking session with Indivisible.org this week — it was great and we loved seeing so many of your amazing faces! Please join us, fellow Fated Maters and special guests for Fated States Phonebanking Part 2 on Saturday, October 3rd at 3pm Eastern to call North Carolina!
Show Notes
This week, we interview Julie Moody-Freeman, a professor of African and Diaspora Studies at DePaul University. She's the host of the Black Romance Podcast. Julie wrote a chatper in the newly released Routledge Companion to Popular Romance Fiction.
The Black Romance Podcast is an oral history podcast which has interviewed some of the greatest voices in Black romance both past and present.
If you're interested readings some books of non-romance oral history, Jen recommends Voices from Chernobyl, Tower Stories, and anything by Studs Terkel. You might also enjoy the podcast Bughouse Square, which pairs interviews from the Studs Terkel Radio Archives and Eve Ewing interviewing poeple today. It's terrific.
The era of the mall bookstore--Waldenbooks and B. Dalton-- is over. But then again, malls might be over.
Vivian Stephens was the woman who revolutionized the American cateogry romance. You should listen to her two-part interview on the Black Romance Podcast, read this terrific profile of her in Texas Monthly, and listen to us read and discuss some of her early aquistions with Steve Ammidown.
Julie teaches a class called Romance, Women, and Race at Depaul. On the reading list: Make it Last Forever by Gwyneth Bolton, Gabriel's Discovery by Felicia Mason, A Duke by Default by Alyssa Cole, Forbidden by Beverly Jenkins, and The Brightest Day Anthology.
Although Season One of the Black Romance Podcast will be coming to a close soon, she listed some of the women she'd love to interview: Shirley Hailstock, Donna Hill, and Rochelle Alers.
Rosalind Wells and Francis Ray are two Black romance trailblazers who are no longer with us.
Next week, we'll be reading Serving Pleasure by Alisha Rai.
S03.06: We Are Grateful For You - Freewheeling with Sarah & Jen
This is a tough week for everyone, so we did what we could do to make ourselves feel a little bit more ourselves despite existential despair—we recorded a podcast. We’re all over the place (we promise this won’t be a theme for the whole season!), but we recommend a TON of books, which is basically all we can do.
We’ve got another episode for you later this week, and next week, we’re deep diving on Alisha Rai’s Serving Pleasure, which is a fantastic erotic romance. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Also -- Sarah has a contemporary novella out September 15th! Preorder the Naughty Brits anthology, wherever you get your ebooks: Amazon, Nook, Kobo, Apple, or in print at bookshop.org.
Show Notes
Goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls is available wherever books are sold, and you can listen to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. The RBG episode is here.
You can watch a documentary about RBG, or read the Notorious RBG book, or wear the RBG dissent collar now.
RBG's "When there are nine," quote is: "When I'm sometimes asked 'When will there be enough {women on the Supreme Court}?' and I say 'When there are nine,' people are shocked. But there'd been nine men, and nobody's ever raised a question about that."
Tom Hardy might be James Bond and we're fine with it. Melissa did some great work pairing pictures of Tom Hardy as Sarah MacLean covers. Here's a thread of Henry Cavill as Sarah MacLean covers, too. Let it be known Sarah has the best readers around.
The Jurgen Klopp thread from comedian Laura Lexx is a thing of great beauty.
These Fifty Shades movies are terrible but we can't stop watching them and we don't understand it either, you guys.
Masquerades are great. We talked about how historicals do masquerades more than contemporaries, and we couldn't name any contemporaries with masquerades, but then Sarah immediately picked up the Dark Fairy Tales anthology, which is brand new, 99 cents, and in which all the stories are connected by a masque. You should get it. You deserve nice things.
Also, the fact that we didn't mention Sweet Ruin is causing Sarah some pretty deep shame.
You should wear your undies over your garters. Dita Von Teese confirms this. Apparently this is referred to as "The French Way."
TRANSCRIPT
Ani DiFranco Music Lyric 0:00 / #
My mother was a feminist, she taught me to see the road to ruin is paved with patriarchy. So, let the way of the women guide democracy. From plunder and pollution let mother earth be free. Feminism ain't about women. No, that's not who it is for. It's about a shifting consciousness that'll bring an end to war. So listen up you fathers, listen up you sons. Which side are you on now, which side are you on.
Sarah MacLean 0:38 / #
So we threw our plan out for the week.
Jennifer Prokop 0:40 / #
We did.
Sarah MacLean 0:42 / #
Cuz everything is terrible.
Jennifer Prokop 0:44 / #
Yeah. It's been a bad week.
Sarah MacLean 0:49 / #
Literally, the first thing I texted Jen last night was we got to do a podcast this week. We got to do an episode.
Jennifer Prokop 0:56 / #
Well, because it's September 19. We're recording and last night, Ruth Bader Ginsburg died.
Sarah MacLean 1:03 / #
So I sat on the floor of my bathroom for a little while and cried. And then I walked out of the bathroom and Eric was standing in the hallway. I said, "I feel like this is real existential. This is what existential despair feels like". And he said, "You only just got here."
Jennifer Prokop 1:22 / #
Yeah, there was this Onion article, I guess, it was a tweet. It was sort of like, man who thought he lost all hope realizes he'd really, like really? Now? And that was that was me. Right? I was like, oh.
Sarah MacLean 1:37 / #
But also we had planned to start Joy this week. As a podcast concept. And you know.
Jennifer Prokop 1:46 / #
Maybe...can I suggest that we talk about romance as solace this week, then?
Sarah MacLean 1:51 / #
Yeah. I mean, it's all part and parcel, right? As my mom would say. I don't know. What would we say? We are...I think we are sad. And scared, and mad. And pissed off.
Jennifer Prokop 2:15 / #
Yeah, we're angry. You know? Well, let's say welcome to Fated Mates. Before we move on, we should actually tell people what they're listening to.
Sarah MacLean 2:24 / #
I'm Sarah MacLean. I write romance novels, and I read romance novels.
Jennifer Prokop 2:29 / #
And I'm Jennifer Prokop. I am a romance reader and critic.
Sarah MacLean 2:34 / #
And we are here for you guys this week, because you're here for us this week. I woke up this morning to, a lot of tweets, and DMs. And I just want you guys to know I read a bunch of them out loud to Jen just now. And every one of them is making us feel better.
Jennifer Prokop 2:54 / #
Yeah. I guess what, you know what, here's one other thing I want to say before we start which is. This is like a thing we Ruth Bader Ginsburg dying is, I mean, she was an amazing woman, she, our democracy should not rest upon the life of one 87 year old white woman. This was also a week where we got some really shocking, not... maybe shocking is not the right word, but terrifying news about forced hysterectomies.
Sarah MacLean 3:24 / #
Horrible, monsterous news.
Jennifer Prokop 3:26 / #
Of women in detention by a doctor who is not even a doctor. And I think it's really important, you know, as two women who live in urban areas in blue states, this is, you know, there's a planned parenthood, I drive past all the time, my access to reproductive rights is not a question. That's not really true for women who live in red states. It's not true, where also, I think its not true for poor women. They are the ways in which reproductive rights have stratified based on your geography, based on your income, based on your race. You know, this has been a long time coming. And I think in some ways, I just want to say our existential fear and dread is because now it's everyone. Not just poor women, not just brown and black women, not just women in state, in rural states or rural areas. I mean, so it's really I think it's really hard.
Sarah MacLean 4:24 / #
And not just women.
Jennifer Prokop 4:25 / #
Not just women, right.
Sarah MacLean 4:28 / #
So, yeah, we're having we're having a, we're having a time of it, and I think so are a lot of you. So, we want to talk about how we move forward in this. So we're gonna do our best today. But if this is not a thing that you're ready to listen to, sure, maybe go back and listen to the Rune week episode. I am rereading "Sweet Ruin" for the 83rd time.
Jennifer Prokop 5:08 / #
Can we also talk about how amazing Ruth Bader Ginsburg was. So Little Romance and I one year went, and I dressed as Ruth Bader Ginsburg for Halloween. I, as you all know, teach in the middle school and Little Romance goes to my school. And he was like, "Well, I guess I'll go as a Supreme Court Justice, too." And then he asked a really interesting question, because kids are so funny. And I was like, "Well, you know, there's all these other dudes." And he said, "Well, which one is the most powerful?" I said, "Well, that would be Chief Justice John Roberts." And so he decided that that would be what he would tell people, I mean, he just wore like a black graduation robe. I will put the picture in show notes. It's amazing. Adorable. Um, he was like, "Yeah, I'll just tell everybody I'm John Roberts."
Sarah MacLean 5:55 / #
And imagine at the time you were like, "ugh", but now we're like, "Please God, make Roberts be the sane one in this mix."
Jennifer Prokop 6:04 / #
Yeah. Right.
Sarah MacLean 6:08 / #
Anyway. My Ruth Bader Ginsburg story is that I have a six year old girl, who is six years old in the age of "Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls", which is a really fantastic Kickstarter that became a book series. It was Kickstarted as a hardcover book that is gorgeous. It's a storybook, where it's 50 women throughout the ages from Cleopatra, and Grace O'Malley, a pirate from the 1500s, to Serena Williams, and Malala Yousafzai. And what's amazing is many of these women you have heard of, many of them you have not heard of. And each book, each story is one page long. And then on the facing page is this gorgeous illustration of the the person, whoever the person is. We Kickstarted the first one, and then of course it took off, and now there are I think, three books.
Jennifer Prokop 7:27 / #
That's awesome.
Sarah MacLean 7:28 / #
But they've also started a podcast called, "Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls". We will put links in show notes. I tweeted about it this morning. Because there is a Ruth Bader Ginsburg episode of the podcast, which is fabulous. And this is for like the parents out there. If you are looking for a way to explain Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life and legacy to littles. This podcast is really excellent. So it tells the story, it tells her story, her story of going to graduate school, of going to law school. And being a woman in law school and marrying Marty, and Marty getting cancer and her taking notes for him in class, all while making the Harvard Law Review. But it really is a, sort of, digestible story of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's whole life as a rebel girl.
Jennifer Prokop 8:22 / #
That's awesome.
Sarah MacLean 8:23 / #
And my daughter loves this podcast. And you know, there are all sorts of very, very cool women as part of this podcast. And she's always telling me about these cool women from the podcast. And one day, she came to me about two or three months ago, and she said, "Mom, have you heard of Ruth Bader Ginsburg?" And I said, "I have heard her". And she said, "She is really cool, isn't she?" And I was like, "She really, really is." She's probably listened to that episode of the podcast 25 times. So, we'll put links to it in show notes. It's a great podcast, even for big rebel girls like us.
Jennifer Prokop 9:19 / #
Yeah. I think it's amazing the way in which her life was really celebrated when she was still alive. Like the notorious RBG book or the RBG documentary.
Sarah MacLean 9:33 / #
The Ruth Bader Ginsburg workout book.
Jennifer Prokop 9:36 / #
Oh, yeah. Right. I mean, I had a friend of mine, my friend, she texted me this morning. She's like,' look, I just ordered it because if she could be a badass at that age, then I can be a badass at my age". And I was like, I like it. I like it. So I think there was a way in which we celebrated her life while it was still going.
Sarah MacLean 9:56 / #
Yeah, she knew we thought she was awesome. Which is cool. That's not...that's not something everybody gets, right? I mean, I'm real bummed that we made this poor woman hold together a democracy. At her age she should have been able to live out her golden years. Right? Anyway, it's rough out there everyone, so you want to be gentle with yourselves. And I guess that's where Jen is going with romance as solace. You know, last night, I was sitting on the couch and I was sort of, you know, thousand yard staring at the TV. And Eric looked at me and was like, "What can you do right now? Like, can you read a romance novel?"
Jennifer Prokop 10:47 / #
I love that.
Sarah MacLean 10:47 / #
Like it was medicinal. "Would you like bourbon? Would you like marijuana?"
Jennifer Prokop 10:54 / #
Straight shot. Right? No fooling around.
Sarah MacLean 10:56 / #
"Is there a book you can be reading right now?" And then he was like, " You're an insominac, Jen is an insomniac. Why don't you just record a podcast?" And I was like, "What is happening right now?" He was like casting at straws. What can we be doing? Um, but I think that, you know, that is the point, right? The romance novel. His instinct was, go read a romance novel, because I know they make you happy. And I did actually get into bed and I read half of a romance novel that I can't tell any of you about because it doesn't technically exist. But it's great. And then this morning, you know, I just feel like, today, all I want to do is crawl into bed now with "Sweet Ruin". And you know...cuddle.
Jennifer Prokop 11:49 / #
I think it's really interesting to think about, romance novel is solace, but also the ways in which we approach that, because for me, that's rereading, but it's also for many people, they have the--we joke about the break in case of emergency romance. Right? That one by a favorite author that you have never read that you are like holding for that time. And I will tell you I have never read the Lisa Kleypas with Cam.
Jennifer Prokop 12:26 / #
I have been holding that... like it's been on for years. Years, I have been waiting for like a day where I just know that I'm gonna need, need that and I feel like this might be the day. Oh, this might be the day.
Sarah MacLean 12:45 / #
That's a big day. Yeah. I mean, Kresley if you're listening right now, it would be a great time to drop "Munro."
Jennifer Prokop 12:56 / #
God, like Calgon take me away.
Sarah MacLean 13:00 / #
Kresley is like, "These motherfuckers."
Jennifer Prokop 13:02 / #
No, listen. No Kresley loves us.
Sarah MacLean 13:08 / #
Oh, my God. I mean, literally a second before we started recording, I read the tweet that announced--Thank you Twitter for just always taking care of me--someone made sure that I saw that it is it is unconfirmed, but rumored that Tom Hardy is about to become James Bond. And I was like, I'm having a heart attack. I'm MacRieve braining over here. Because I can't handle it. It's...the highs and lows are too much.
Jennifer Prokop 13:45 / #
You know what's really funny is.... I did last night think maybe I should watch a James Bond movie.
Sarah MacLean 13:49 / #
Because you're reading Lee Child!
Jennifer Prokop 13:51 / #
Handsome men blow things up is real solace to me.
Sarah MacLean 13:54 / #
I mean, Tom Hardy taking off his shirt and shooting things.
Jennifer Prokop 13:58 / #
Fine.
Sarah MacLean 13:58 / #
I mean, I'll allow it.
Jennifer Prokop 14:00 / #
He'll have to like roll up his sleeves. Sarah.
Sarah MacLean 14:03 / #
Also, you know what else gave me joy yesterday? Yesterday morning was a very high and low day for me, Jen.
Jennifer Prokop 14:11 / #
That thread!
Sarah MacLean 14:12 / #
You guys, I know. We're all just trying to find hope and joy.
Jennifer Prokop 14:19 / #
Listen coping mechanisms are fine.
Sarah MacLean 14:22 / #
I woke up yesterday morning to a magnificent reader named Melissa to discover that she had spent her evening the night before, and I hope you enjoyed yourself, Melissa. Finding photographs of Tom Hardy that she could pair with Sarah MacLean covers. And then thread was Tom Hardy as Sarah MacLean covers, and it was really, really crazy. "The Day of the Duchess"....
Jennifer Prokop 14:51 / #
"The Day of The Duchess" one is unreal.
Sarah MacLean 14:56 / #
He's such a dirtbag! We are putting that show notes. For sure.
Jennifer Prokop 15:00 / #
Maybe that's all show notes is gonna be.
Sarah MacLean 15:02 / #
What is that picture? The whole picture for this episode should be Tom Hardy as "Day of the Duchess".
Jennifer Prokop 15:07 / #
I can make that happen, I can do that. I have the power. Oh, you know all the chapter images this week will just be those from that.
Sarah MacLean 15:17 / #
Oh my god. So anyway, thanks so much somebody else had done Henry Cavill as Sarah MacLean covers the day before ... you are out there doing the Lord's work for me this week. So thank you. I mean, yeah, I pulled up that Jurgen Klopp, tweet thread last night I was on the phone with you and I'm gonna go read that Jurgen Klopp tweet--This is where I'm at you guys-- I'm finding old Twitter threads to like just suck out the marrow of joy. But you know, then tonight we're hanging out with our friends, we have a plan for tonight to hang out with our good friends and watch this dumb 50 Shades movie.
Jennifer Prokop 16:09 / #
I don't even care. Listen, I don't know that we've updated everyone.
Sarah MacLean 16:13 / #
I'm enjoying it more than I really should, I think.
Jennifer Prokop 16:15 / #
Okay, so we watched number two with everyone now. Okay, so wait here's --everyone-- I have a secret.
Sarah MacLean 16:21 / #
If they're not listening--it's a secret? Jen we have tens of thousands of listeners.
Jennifer Prokop 16:27 / #
No, no this part isnt a secret, we know this part, no listen. If you listen, we talked about...Sarah watched the first one with the RITA writers room.
Sarah MacLean 16:39 / #
Really we don't have to refer to them that way anymore. How about... let's do it this way. Okay, just name them.
Jennifer Prokop 16:45 / #
So Alexis Daria, Adriana Herrera...was LaQuette watching it the first time around?
Sarah MacLean 16:50 / #
No, but LaQuette's on the thread because she just likes to mock us.
Jennifer Prokop 16:54 / #
Her text notification the next morning must be insane. Nisha Sharma, Tracey Livesey, and then Andie Christopher.
Sarah MacLean 17:01 / #
And so, here's the fun thing. So Tracey is basically cruise directing this whole thing. You all know this if you listened to the Tracey episode, we talked about this. So she's cruise directing and Nisha comes in. I mean, wearing the full...I mean, 50 Shades head to toe, she's got you know, Christian Grey sneakers. And then we go through the first movie. We watch together, then Jen joins us for 50 Shades...Freed?
Jennifer Prokop 17:32 / #
Okay, so here was the thing...
Sarah MacLean 17:33 / #
No. Darker.
Jennifer Prokop 17:36 / #
I watched the first one on my own I was like, I gotta catch up so that next time they watch...
Sarah MacLean 17:40 / #
Tell everyone this is a confession.
Jennifer Prokop 17:42 / #
Okay, this actual part it's a confession. It's not a secret it's a confession. So
Sarah MacLean 17:46 / #
Jen is a traitorous betrayer.
Jennifer Prokop 17:48 / #
Right so Tracey and I watched the second one together.
Sarah MacLean 17:52 / #
Tracey is a traitorous betrayer.
Jennifer Prokop 17:55 / #
Cuz I was like, I'm kind of obsessed with this. I really want to watch the next one. And I had never read the books. So it was all new to me. Meanwhile, the entire time I was like, Tracey, does this happen in the book? Tracey? Does this happen in the book? Because she was like, "I don't know". It's fine. But, I did secretly watch the second one. And then we watched it all together. But tonight, I'm going in cold on 50 Shades Freed. Is that what it was called?
Sarah MacLean 18:19 / #
Allegedly.
Jennifer Prokop 18:20 / #
What do you mean? allegedly?
Sarah MacLean 18:21 / #
Allegedly.
Jennifer Prokop 18:22 / #
Oh you think I'm lying.
Sarah MacLean 18:22 / #
You lied to me once before. How can I ever trust you when it comes E.L. James? Jamie Dornan and his weird leprechaun head?
Jennifer Prokop 18:32 / #
And his bow tie!
Sarah MacLean 18:34 / #
Ok! I'm gonna ruin 50 Shades Darker for you guys. You ready? The masquerade ball? which everybody knows I love a masquerade. I mean...come on now. Every romance, right? Oh, we should talk about masquerades and like the promise of the masquerade. We've never done that. And that's a fun conversation.
Jennifer Prokop 18:50 / #
Right.
Sarah MacLean 18:50 / #
But I'm gonna ruin it first. So the 50 Shades masquerade in the second book. Like it's sexy, right? He gives her mask and then they go to his parents' house and then they like, do a lot of naughty stuff in his parents house which, Alexis Daria, was not on board, nor was Adriana Herrera, not on board with it. Not Okay. Um, but mainly Adriana is not okay through...I would say 80%.
Jennifer Prokop 19:19 / #
Okay, except for the amazing scene where he flips her.
Sarah MacLean 19:22 / #
Oh, the flip. Forget it. It's real hot.
Jennifer Prokop 19:25 / #
I rewatched that several times. I was like, how is there no GIF of this. And then Adriana was like, "sorry, I'm behind! I had to go back and watch that flip a few times".
Sarah MacLean 19:31 / #
Yeah Adriana just peaced out of the watch from all of us. And like went back to rewatch the flip, which is great. I mean, I support your choices. Anyway, we're watching it. And the masquerade comes on and you guys, Christian's bow tie in this masquerade scene is like a baby's bow tie. It's like a child's bow tie. And I literally throw into text thread--We have an ongoing text thread-- we're watching this and like, why is his bow tie so tiny? And then I kind of ruined it for Tracey, because she'd never noticed.
Jennifer Prokop 20:07 / #
And then you can't not know.
Sarah MacLean 20:09 / #
Now once I've said that to you, you can't not notice it's just a tiny little bow tie.
Jennifer Prokop 20:13 / #
I'm gonna admit something too. So I love a masquerade scene in a book, but I'm always like, how do these mfer's not fucking recognize each other?
Sarah MacLean 20:22 / #
The have to know? Right?
Jennifer Prokop 20:23 / #
Right? They have to know. And then we are watching it with me and Tracey -- sorry -- and I was like, who is this blonde woman talking to Christian? Is it her friend and she's like, no, it's a sister. And I was like, God, reader me is like, "How do they not recognize each other?" Watcher me is like, "Who the fuck is this? Again? She's got a mask on. I don't know."
Sarah MacLean 20:40 / #
Everybody's in a mask. They're just invisible now. Yes, it's except, except the hero always knows who the heroine is.
Jennifer Prokop 20:49 / #
Sure.
Sarah MacLean 20:50 / #
I mean, always.
Jennifer Prokop 20:52 / #
Always.
Sarah MacLean 20:53 / #
Cuz that is... I get the most positive response to the first line in "Daring of the Duke" of the masquerade from his point of view, because I think the first line of that chapter is like, he knew it was her the moment she entered.
Jennifer Prokop 21:06 / #
Right. And she doesn't think he knows.
Sarah MacLean 21:08 / #
Right and cuz she's like, masked. she's wearing a wig. She's like masked. He's like, doesn't matter. No, he's like, I smell you. Like he smells her. Fated Fucking Mates.
Jennifer Prokop 21:18 / #
I was just saying it's like that old category where the guy can smell pregnant women. What was it? What was that one?
Sarah MacLean 21:28 / #
"Warrior"! You guys. I'm gonna reread "Warrior" this week.
Jennifer Prokop 21:33 / #
See? There you go.
Sarah MacLean 21:34 / #
Today, because he can smell women pregnant.
Jennifer Prokop 21:37 / #
He'd definitely know how to identify someone at a masquerade.
Sarah MacLean 21:40 / #
For romance reasons.
Jennifer Prokop 21:42 / #
Here's the other thing -- I was thinking about several things...
Sarah MacLean 21:46 / #
I would... wait, I'm sorry. I want to go back to "Warrior" for a second. Because Nevada --the hero of "Warrior" who can smell women pregnant-- Elizabeth Lowell does some real solid foreshadowing work. Jennifer. Um, was that this episode? No different episode.
Jennifer Prokop 22:03 / #
One day it'll makes sense. We're foreshadowing a future joke about foreshadowing.
Sarah MacLean 22:08 / #
So Elizabeth Lowell does some really great foreshadowing work because he smells pregnancy in like four books before that book. And then she's looking at her, at her notes on him. And she's like, oh, he smells pregnancy. So bam. I know how this is gonna go.
Jennifer Prokop 22:23 / #
Here's the thing about this masquerade scene though. Like, I'm not really a person to pay attention to continuity things... but, before the masquerade, Ana is dressed in some very lovely lingerie. It is truly beautiful. In fact, it only... you know it also remind me of? Season One of Deadwood. Remember when Alma finally gets it on with the--what's his name?
Sarah MacLean 22:46 / #
Crazy eyes. Timothy Olyphant.
Jennifer Prokop 22:47 / #
Yes. She is also wearing some beautiful undergarments. I remember really being like, wow, that is lovely. Do you remember that?
Sarah MacLean 22:54 / #
I don't remember it. But I'm gonna...
Jennifer Prokop 22:56 / #
Find it and I'll like,
Sarah MacLean 22:57 / #
It's a really nice corset.
Jennifer Prokop 22:59 / #
Yes, but it's like kind of black lace and it's very sheer.
Sarah MacLean 23:03 / #
It's mourning undergarments.
Jennifer Prokop 23:05 / #
Sure, sure. Anyway, Ana is wearing this beautiful lingerie, and then she puts on a dress and I was like, wait, you just took all that stuff off!
Sarah MacLean 23:15 / #
A silk dress. I mean the argument--did she take it off?
Jennifer Prokop 23:20 / #
She couldn't have been... literally the straps would have shown.
Sarah MacLean 23:22 / #
Here's my thing about that lingerie. She's all very put together. But she's wearing her garter belts over her undies, which is, I mean, how it looks really perfect. But the reality is, is that if you wear your garter belts over your undies, anytime you have to pee, have sex or have ben wa balls inserted into you. This is important. This is a PSA you guys. You have to undress yourself! I mean, clearly the fantasy is held during the 50 Shades film.
Jennifer Prokop 23:58 / #
Sorry, my seventeen year old just appeared at a real awkward time, but he couldn't hear what you were talking about.
Sarah MacLean 24:04 / #
"Hi!". I'm really glad he couldn't hear what I was talking about. "Hi, Little Romance!"
Little Romance 24:07 / #
I don't know what's happening. So I'm gonna leave now.
Jennifer Prokop 24:09 / #
Okay, bye.
Sarah MacLean 24:09 / #
"Okay, bye". Look at you. He brought you breakfast.
Jennifer Prokop 24:15 / #
Yeah, Mr. ReadsRomance went to Dunkin donuts.
Sarah MacLean 24:18 / #
Oh, I love a Dunkin'.
Jennifer Prokop 24:20 / #
Me too. Can we talk about masquerades? The promise of the premise. That's what we're going to do right now.
Sarah MacLean 24:25 / #
All right. So the promise of the premise of the masquerade. One is, they don't know who the other is. So this is early days in the book, right? Like, if it's in the first couple of chapters, then it has to be sort of like a mystery of who this person is. Although, I mean, I don't know. I'm thinking. So, wait. Are we talking masquerades themselves or the mask itself? Because I think about that, um, delicious Elizabeth Hoyt book. Did you read all those Elizabeth Hoyt books? The Prince books?
Jennifer Prokop 24:59 / #
I think so.
Sarah MacLean 25:00 / #
Tiger Prince, Raven Prince, Serpent Prince. The Raven Prince is the one where he goes to the sex club. And she meets him there. He's going as like a client and she goes and is wearing a mask and she is the sex worker. And she's masked -- but that's another example of she thinks he doesn't know who she is -- And he of course knows right away. Of course. FYI guys we had no intention. We were just going to get it. We just decided we were going to freewheel today. So here we are.
Jennifer Prokop 25:42 / #
Well, we started off with my RBG Halloween costume and we're back to costume. So I feel like it's all a closed circut. Okay, here's my question about masquerades. Do you think this is a historical only trope?
Sarah MacLean 25:56 / #
Well, I mean, it's in 50 Shades, which arguably is...
Jennifer Prokop 25:59 / #
Yeah, but I was like, but other than 50 Shades.
Sarah MacLean 26:01 / #
100 million copies. Were we not clear enough.
Jennifer Prokop 26:05 / #
Right? But they go together.
Sarah MacLean 26:07 / #
Right, because Christian Grey is so an old fashioned, right? He's basically like... What's his name? Rochester. PS Christian Grey would absolutely keep his old wife in the attic.
Jennifer Prokop 26:20 / #
Um, hello? Yes.
Jennifer Prokop 26:23 / #
Like in the book the whole part with like Leila, or no, the movie.
Sarah MacLean 26:28 / #
Yeah, the second book is like some serious Jane Eyre fanfic.
Jennifer Prokop 26:32 / #
For sure.
Sarah MacLean 26:33 / #
It's, you know, a big problem. Adriana...
Jennifer Prokop 26:37 / #
She about had a heart attack. She was like, "Wait, what?" Go back and watch that flip again. Skip over this.
Sarah MacLean 26:45 / #
We should publish the chats. We could make a fortune. Okay, the contemporary masquerades. I mean, there have got to be--It's such a classic trope. Right? Right. This is why we don't usually like truly prepare, but we usually say, oh, we're gonna do an episode on masquerades and then we at least think about it. Yeah, they have to. Everybody at home is like screaming titles at us right now. You know that, right?
Jennifer Prokop 27:16 / #
I do. That's fine. I feel like in some ways, the Naima Simone blackout ones function similarly.
Sarah MacLean 27:26 / #
Like galas, like balls, right. Like, that sort of feel. I mean, I just wrote... the "Naughty Brits" anthology and its connected by a gala, which I think gives it a real romancey feel... that anthology. I mean, I love an anthology. We're going to take a little detour. But I love an anthology that links together. We've talked about this on the podcast, like, I much prefer an anthology where, you know, either some kind of trope, or there's a similar thing, or like all of them interconnect. "Naughty Brits", all of the all of the episodes, all of the stories interconnect at a gala at the British Museum, but it's not a mask.
Jennifer Prokop 28:09 / #
So in a masquerade, it's the whole like, we're strangers to each other, but of course, he recognizes her. But in a modern one. I feel like it's the gala. And it has like that pretty woman effect of the the glow up?
Sarah MacLean 28:27 / #
Yeah, it's like a Cinderella story. You mean? Yeah, I think that's probably reasonable.
Jennifer Prokop 28:36 / #
And not just for women. I think for men, too, right. Like, Oh, my God, look at you and your three piece suit.
Sarah MacLean 28:42 / #
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. You know, I can't think short of 50 Shades. I can't really think of like a, a masquerade, romance, a contemporary masquerade romance. And I think that that's, I think that's probably... Oh, you know, who does it? It's not a masquerade though. So in Nikki Sloane's sex club books, the heroines are always the the walkers are always masked. So there's like a sense of
Jennifer Prokop 29:21 / #
They're blindfolded.
Sarah MacLean 29:23 / #
Oh, their blindfolded. So it's not masks. That's a different thing. I mean, the whole series is called, "The Blindfold Club". So as it is, well, I wonder why. I mean, I guess is it because it's too much fantasy? Because historicals allow, like, here's the thing about historicals is a mask on unlocks the characters right? Like, so where in a historical you're always writing this really fine line between what is allowed, like what we'll get like ruination is always on the table in a historical, I mean, maybe not always, but like 90% of historicals. Ruination is one of the like, the fears, right? This idea because we've talked 1000 times about like patriarchy and what historicals are doing around patriarchy. And the truth is ruination is fucking nonsense is what it is, right? And like, it's about women and sexuality and perception and the way society tries to keep women from pleasure. And it's all those things. And so ruination as a threat is just like always a low level kind of bubbling threat. So masks give us an opportunity. I mean, how many times have I said, I love an identity. What I love about romance is identity, always. And so masks like, there's the one piece which is playing with identity. But there's also that second piece that frees women from the binds and constraints of propriety, because if she's wearing a mask, no one knows who she is. So if she's, like, slutty in the garden.
Jennifer Prokop 31:05 / #
It doesn't matter.
Sarah MacLean 31:06 / #
Yeah. So it's a shorthand for sexual freedom. But also, but without removing patriarchy, right. So because once the mask comes off, like everything goes to shit.
Jennifer Prokop 31:20 / #
So I wonder if that's why it doesn't need to function the same way in a contemporary.
Sarah MacLean 31:24 / #
Because if women just have sex, and it's fine, right? I mean, I was doing. Yeah, so maybe it just doesn't have purpose.
Jennifer Prokop 31:34 / #
I think it's different, right. So in like I said,
Sarah MacLean 31:36 / #
I do love that moment, where he's like, where everyone's like, "Who's that?" And he's "That's my goddess".
Jennifer Prokop 31:45 / #
Right? Well, cuz he's the only one who knows her. He's literally bringing into our world she's never seen before. Right? And I do think that that's how galas often function because we have so many billionaire/millionaire heroes or whatever, right? And so often the woman's appearance into this world... It's not really about patriarchy, as much as it is about class.
Sarah MacLean 32:09 / #
Yes. In contemporaries. Yeah. It's usually it's either it's fish out of water, it's an awareness of like, a whole world that we haven't, that she has not had access to until now.
Jennifer Prokop 32:23 / #
Well, and I think so I think also the payoff is really different and or he? Yeah, sure. I'm thinking okay, so you and I both love Charlotte Stein. Right. And one of my favorite Charlotte Stein's -- and I'm gonna have to look because of course, god knows what the hell are, you know, are titles -- So hold on, while I look at this title, there's one I love, one of my favorites. And like, I feel like no one ever talks about it. But it is like absolutely one of my favorites. And I don't remember the title hold on its "Run to You" is the name of the book. And it starts off with a woman who she her roommate, she figures out essentially is doing these, like assignation she calls them. So she shows up in this hotel room, she doesn't really know what's going to happen. And it turns out that it's like, kind of like, this man's gonna be there. Right. And at the end, though, she falls in love with him. His name's Yanos like, I don't scand, I don't remember where he from. And at the end, though, he takes her he like takes her to the spa, and she gets the full treatment and she wears this whole gown. And he takes her to this ball and she thinks he's trying to change her. And she actually like sort of, she can't deal with it. She's like, I wanted him to want me for me. I didn't want him to like, make me over. And I thought it was a really clever play on the glow up right like instead of the Pretty Woman moment being like, yes, look, you can fit in anywhere. Is her saying I actually just wanted to I wanted you to love me for me. I didn't want you to have to make me something I'm not in order to fit in with your world. Of course it was all a misunderstanding. It was fine, but
Jennifer Prokop 34:14 / #
I did really like so I do. I think the gala and the ball is just different in a, in a modern romance. I think it has different stakes.
Sarah MacLean 34:22 / #
I think also that I do think you're right that I think that it's it's often about money. I think about that scene. In the Sylvia Day series helped me Help me the "Crossfire".
Jennifer Prokop 34:37 / #
"Crossfire". I was like the to you series.
Sarah MacLean 34:39 / #
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's that great scene, which is there's a scene in that series that's also at a gala or like a fundraiser, and they are sitting together and she is an and the dynamic is very much like he's a billionaire. She's not, She's like a young ingenue. And the they are having the moment at the table where there is a lot of like there's it's clear that like she is left out of the conversation or being manipulated in the conversation because she is not their kind, right? Like she's not their people. And it's a very class focused moment. And she uses her safe word at the table.
Jennifer Prokop 35:30 / #
Oh, wow, that's intense.
Sarah MacLean 35:31 / #
Have you read that book.
Jennifer Prokop 35:33 / #
I think I read the first one.
Sarah MacLean 35:34 / #
I don't know if it's the first one or the second one, somebody will tell us. But she's safe words him at the table during the conversation. And he instantly stops like, on a dime. And that and it's like, an incredible moment of like, power. And like this conversation around identity and power and, yeah, and how sex is more than just what happens between two people in private. Like, Yes, there is. It is a magnificent scene because of the way it balances power. And I think you're right, I think, you know, I think about um, you know, there are so in Lisa Kleypas in her contemporaries, and this is unsurprising, right? Like, Lisa is a historical Queen, right? Well, arguably the best of us in history. And so like when she right went, but when she came to her contemporaries, there were a lot of these like kind of Texan balls that happened, and like gave opportunities to have these conversations. What is interesting about this for me, though, is that it is so completely fantastical for most of us, like I always do every year, I make the same New Year's joke, right, which is I've been living in New York City for 20 years, and no one has ever invited me to a "When Harry Met Sally" style New Year's Eve party, like I have never been invited to have, you know, Eric run in the rain and say,
Movie Dialogue 37:12 / #
"I love that you get cold when it's 71 degrees. I love that it takes you an hour and a half to order a sandwich. I love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you're looking at me like I'm nuts. I love that after I spend the day with you, I can still smell your perfume on my clothes. And I love that you are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night."
Sarah MacLean 37:32 / #
I think that fantasy of it's really old fashion, there's like a comfort to it. There is Yeah, because readers, we sort of know what happens at a ball. Like we know that ball is where like gentle courtship, there's something soft about it, even when it's not soft.
Jennifer Prokop 37:49 / #
Well, I also think it's really embedded in like the Cinderella trope, which is so I think it's like impossible to get away from and I think, you know, like going off to the ball and the fairy godmother and then you know, being recognized for who you are, even though no one else can see that. I mean, that's a really powerfully built into, like our society. But I mean, there are Cinderella stories from all over the world right there. This is a story that humanity loves, not just Americans. I think it's also a very visual trope. Yeah. And what I mean by that is, I don't know you guys look at the mirror every morning and I'm like, whatever. You know, like, I mean, same. Like the ugly duckling turning into a swan like that's, I love that. Yeah.
Sarah MacLean 38:46 / #
You know, have you read Theodora Taylor, we read her books.
Jennifer Prokop 38:51 / #
One but I it was a I don't remember though. It was there was not a ball.
Sarah MacLean 38:56 / #
So first of all, these were recommended to me by Kenya Gauri Bell, who is amazing, um, who is like the most wonderful person. Yeah, possibly in romance. She's just a delight. Um, so Kenya and I were in Alabama together immediately before COVID like we did an event in in Alabama, and I did an event with Naima Simone and Kenya was there and we all went out and hung out and talked about romance novels. As you know, you do when you hang out with me. Um, and she recommended this book called Holt, which is written by Theodora Taylor, who in it's like, the series title is like ruthless billionaires or something. And it begins with the heroine turning up at like a skyscraper for a party like very interestingly, like very Naima. Yeah, like this kind of there is this like big party that's happening and she has like, no money at all to her name, and she gets to this party. And it's like, you know, our writhing mass of like people partying. And there is one man who like is above it all, and it's happening at his home. But he's like, kind of bored by it. And I think that's a piece of it, too. Like, this idea that like,
Jennifer Prokop 40:27 / #
I love that. I love it when they're bored of it.
Sarah MacLean 40:29 / #
The hero can have anything in the world, like he can literally it's going back to that it's it harkens back to that Nicki Sloane book that I love so much, right? Where he's like, I'm literally in that book, above it all, looking down, and he can point to the person he wants and say that person, and there are all these remarkable people in the room. But he chooses you. And he chooses you. This is the value of the mask, right? Like he chooses you with, or without the mask. Um, because he can see he can see you he can see all sides of you. So like, it's, it's a really like, and it is like it's exactly what it sounds like. It's like super alpha guy, like, you know, if this is your kink, this book will really work for you. Um, so, you know, but I think about, Oh God, who's that other woman who I love Jean O'Reilly. Is that her name? Have you read Jane O'Reilly ever?
Jennifer Prokop 41:42 / #
It's not Jane O'Reilly. It's,
Sarah MacLean 41:44 / #
You're thinking of Kathleen O'Reilly.
Jennifer Prokop 41:46 / #
I'm thinking Kathleen O'Reilly okay.
Sarah MacLean 41:47 / #
No, I'm not talking about that. I like Kathleen O'Reilly too. And when we do our bartender episode, yes. Okay, as everyone knows that, that's what I'm looking for right now. Um, we will talk about Kathleen O'Reilly because I do love those New York City bartender episodes, but no, hang on. I'm gonna look. Jane O'Reilly. It's true. She's English. And she wrote a book called.
Jennifer Prokop 42:13 / #
Oh, I've read that.
Sarah MacLean 42:15 / #
Yeah, it's not I mean, I recommend I don't think I've ever recommended on the podcast. This actually just became like, just a big, let's just talk about books. We like, fine episode, whatever, who cares?
Jennifer Prokop 42:25 / #
Um, this podcast is free. Everybody so.
Sarah MacLean 42:31 / #
Sorry. Um, so she wrote a book called The pressure plates principle, which is a novella. And it's like, part of again, like part of a series of novellas. But this is a similar thing where the heroine, Oh, God, I love it insecure and insecure about sex heroin, like, the heroin has some some bad I know, I understand that some of my things are deeply problematic, but like, I don't know, it's 2020 leave me alone. So but I love it when like so she said the heroine is coming off like this very bad relationship, where when she broke up with this guy who was terrible to her, he was basically like, you are terrible in bed. Like you suck at sex. And so she's like super insecure about sex. She's in like PR works for some PR company in England is set in England. It's contemporary. I think Jane O'Reilly is English. And the her like, outrageously sexy boss. Hosts these like bacchanals.
Jennifer Prokop 43:35 / #
Great. Great.
Sarah MacLean 43:40 / #
So she turns up at one of them and here we are bored hero. Tired of supermodels.
Jennifer Prokop 43:51 / #
I cannot get enough of that bullshit. I really cannot. It's a great.
Sarah MacLean 43:55 / #
And he's and she asks him for sex lessons. Like she's basically like, I'm bad at sex. And he's like, I feel confident that that is not the case. Never and then he's like, but yes, I will give you sex lessons. So it's like educational kissing, which is another trope we love and should do an episode about but like, again, like this sort of bored. I don't know. Why are we doing this today? I don't know. Why isn't this it's
Jennifer Prokop 44:22 / #
Where we are. Sarah, where we are.
Sarah MacLean 44:25 / #
You know why? Because I'm an insecure heroine right now. I'm like, I don't know. I want a bored. I want a bored person to just be like,
Jennifer Prokop 44:34 / #
Fix this. Like, yeah
Sarah MacLean 44:35 / #
I will teach you about sex. And also I see you and it's all gonna be okay.
Jennifer Prokop 44:41 / #
So, you know, this is a perfect opportunity to mention our favorite Derek Craven, who does not recognize Sarah when she comes to the masquerade.
Sarah MacLean 44:49 / #
No, dummy
Jennifer Prokop 44:52 / #
His factotum does danger you dummy. You know why? Cuz They think we just want the world to be different right now. I think it's perfect. I'm always looking for a way to make the metaphor work everybody sorry,
Sarah MacLean 45:06 / #
Shout out to every person who is selling witch romance is right now. Because there are which romance is like every two days. So for those of you who are not in publishing, there's this email list that you can get on you have to pay for it, but, and I, and it's called publishers lunch, and you get a email every day about the deals like the new publishing deals that are coming out. And for the last like, three months, it's just been like, witch series, after witch series, after witch series in romance and like, I am here for it. Oh, like, in a huge way, because I just feel like I don't, I don't want real life like I don't. I want to read historicals. I want to read paranormals. I want to read things where like, power. I want to read about power. Yes. I want to read about power, but I want to read about power.
Music Lyric 45:55 / #
I can break you will, I can make you kneel. I can force you to crawl and to lick my heels. Cause the power is mine. Power is mine.
Sarah MacLean 46:03 / #
Like where like men has to be like, broken down. Yeah. And I want that, because I want power redistribution in the world.
Jennifer Prokop 46:16 / #
Yeah, me too.
Sarah MacLean 46:19 / #
You know, RBG has that famous quote about like, people always ask her like, when will When will the supreme she be happy with the the way the Supreme Court is broken up? And she says when you're alive? Because there have been nine men on the court for so long. And nobody's ever questioned that. And it just feels like, that's how it should be.
Jennifer Prokop 46:40 / #
Maybe it's naviete, maybe it's just like the access we have to the world. But I've never thought the world was fair. But the way in which is so blatantly unfair now. Right. And the that feels, aggressive.
Sarah MacLean 47:00 / #
The other book I was thinking about this morning, and, you know, was night and Nalini Singh's "Slave to Sensation", which we've never talked about, because we spent so much time in the first season talking about paranormals that I write, like, we write, just have sort of, we've never talked at length about other paranormals. And we should, you know, probably rectify that this season. But like, the premise of slave to sensation, the heroine has emotions, right? And like, the universe that Nalini has created in that, in that book, is a universe where emotions are, are devalued. Like they like it's a weakness, um, which, I mean, it's like, it just feels like, that's real patriarchy. Right? And, yeah, but the hero actually, like, feeds on them, like he can. He gets sustenance from emotions. And so she's, you know, there, she's in hiding. And there's this real sense of, like, power just being so codified in that relationship, and how, how emotion how, like, emotions in women, and like, things that are considered to be softer and weaker, are actually incredible power. And I feel like that's where we are, you know, it's like that. It's that Rebecca Tracer books, you know, like, "Good and Mad", "Good and Mad". And, Mona Eltahaway's "The Seven Necessary Sins of Women and Girls", and it just feels like, anger is all we have now. Yeah. And I, I mean, I think they're, weirdly, we just talked about a bunch of romance novels that are not about women's anger, like they are about, you know, I don't know, sex deals and masquerades. But, but also, I think, like, maybe maybe they aren't, are about about maybe that's part of it, too, like that mask as like, we're all wearing masks all the time. And maybe it's time for us all to take them off and like show the world that we're furious.
Jennifer Prokop 49:09 / #
Like my fury, in my mid 40s is not as threatening, you know, I'm a white lady like, right? Like, I mean, I'm a school teacher. I mean, I just feel like the whole thing too, about like, who gets to be mad. Right, and how that madness is how your anger is perceived as threatening or not. I mean, it's also Rosh Hashanah. So Happy New Year to all of our listeners. And my friend Julie mentioned that she went to services last night, like on zoom or whatever, and that her Rabbi said, "despair is not a strategy". And I was like, that's really good for me to remember. Because it's like people, like people have fought to make the world better for a really long time.
Sarah MacLean 50:01 / #
Yep. So what do we do, Jen? What is a strategy? Call your senators? Yes. Even if you live in blue states, Jen and I live in blue states, I have two blue senators, they have both said like, but I mean, my senators are in line, but like, call your senators make sure they know that you are expecting them to fight with every fiber of their being, even if even though it feels like that is, I mean, we are despairing. If you live in a swing state in a place that has either one blue and one red senator or in a state where your senator, your red senator is up for reelection? Mm hmm. Call your senators. Um, you know, I think this is especially true in places like Maine, where like Susan Collins might win her seat back if she steps up here. So call your senators.
Jennifer Prokop 50:57 / #
If I think act blue reported last night that it was making money hand over fist for swing states and for campaigns, I think Arizona is going to be really important because the reelection there because essentially that Senator, whoever wins is going to get seated faster because of the way like that election is working. I can't remember the details like whatever.
Sarah MacLean 51:26 / #
Jon Favreau, who used worked for Barack Obama, a speechwriter runs on a PAC. I mean, I don't know if we call it a PAC. But it's a it's a fund. And it's called "Get Mitch or Die Trying". And we will put links to it in show notes. That is the pack that raised something like $10 million in three hours last night, because democrats are mad, people are fired up. So call your senators, also do what you can if you don't have money, because a lot of us don't, because it's real hard out here. And we are like, there's also a pandemic on and we understand the burden that that has caused on a lot of families. You can text bank, you can phone bank. Last night, I tried to get addresses from postcards to voters, and there was only one campaign that had addresses still. So I think a lot of people are doing now. So sign up, sign up, sign up for all that stuff. I actually have a text bank training this afternoon at two o'clock for Wisconsin. But you can sign up in individual states if you want to. If you are planning to vote by mail, vote early so that your vote is already counted. By the time the election comes.
Jennifer Prokop 52:42 / #
Well, Virginia had early voting start to speak and they've never seen lines like that. So I have to assume that voters are really motivated and we just need to stay that way like now is, now is the time right if you've been like saving your energy for the final stretch like it's the sprint now it's not a marathon any more.
Sarah MacLean 53:03 / #
Well, here Look, this is the possible gold, gold's lining silver line gold at what, what color is silver lining?
Jennifer Prokop 53:10 / #
So like Anna's dress up at the ball.
Sarah MacLean 53:14 / #
The lining is silver. But the silver, the possible silver lining here is look, we all know that Joe Biden is like, not the most exciting like a lot of us were hoping for someone else. But here we are. And Ginsburg, we have to like honor her legacy here. And like get fired up for the court, get fired up for the Senate, get fired up for the future. We are really, in get fired up for the those families on the border, and for black families across America and for women across America and Trans people across America. And stay try and do what you can to stay fired up for the next 40 whatever days. We are going to be here with you every step of the way. We are going to try and stay fired up we are going to try and keep let's try and keep each other fired up. Take care of yourselves and remember self care but you know also we got to push through.
Jennifer Prokop 54:20 / #
Yeah, the thing it was really funny and people the things that you find solace in besides reading romance like, Eric last night was like there's more of us than there are of them. That's why they need to cheat.
Sarah MacLean 54:32 / #
By the millions there are really literal millions more of us than there are of them.
Jennifer Prokop 54:36 / #
Yeah. And that is really important for me to remember I feel like one of the down, I mean social media is like so amazing my life in a lot of ways. I found all of you through social media but
Sarah MacLean 54:47 / #
I mean Tom Hardy as Sarah MacLean covers.
Jennifer Prokop 54:50 / #
Right it's really hard sometimes to not focus on the all the like those bad stories that bubble up but you know, most of us are out here like trying to do the right thing wearing our masks, we want to vote, we want to help the election. We want to like restore, we can have democracy, we want people to have their civil rights. And I just feel like that helps me. It helps me to remember that.
Sarah MacLean 55:13 / #
It's hard out here. But it is it is easier for us than it has been in the past for a lot of people. You know, I hold tight, I hold tight to President Obama saying like, it is better now than it was, like it is always better. And you know, watching the DNC it's clear, the President Obama is real mad. Yeah. And I'm glad for it. It's right. Um, but there is, but that's where we are.
Jennifer Prokop 55:44 / #
Yeah, I think one last thing I guess I want to say is like, cling to your personal happiness, wherever you find that. One thing that we say all the time in romance is that like, the past didn't need to be perfect that people found personal happiness, even in times of great struggle. That's like the cornerstone of the whole thing. But I feel like one of the things that we see all the time, right is when you know, people, you know, some of our fellow white ladies will say things like, well, how could so and so be happy back then. And I just feel like this is why you have to cling to your personal happiness now, right? Whatever it is in this world right now that is bringing you joy. That is a positive net effect good thing, and none of us should feel bad about those things, whatever they are, right. Like my friend, Ernie and his husband have their new baby this week. And he had a baby and the baby next were remote controlled for like scale. And I was like the baby so tiny. Joy, it's joy to joy.
Sarah MacLean 56:50 / #
Yeah, it is joy. And also you guys like, don't let Twitter get you down. If like, if you're happy about the James Bond casting, or the Juergen Klopp thread, or the video that Rex Chapman is that his name Rex Chapman, it posted today of like, whatever adorable animal thing. Like, you're allowed. You're allowed. We have to suck the joy out of out of everything. Right? To be able to power to keep going the fight. And it's, you know, I feel like there's that. Did you ever watch the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt that show?
Jennifer Prokop 57:34 / #
I'm a bad watcher Sarah?
Sarah MacLean 57:35 / #
I know you don't watch TV. Um, but anyway, so there's there is this comedy that was on for a little while. And it was, you know, kind of adorable. And she had this thing where she was like, you can do anything for 10 seconds, right? Like, I feel like we can do anything for 45 days. Yeah. And we'll tackle it on November 4.
Jennifer Prokop 57:56 / #
Yep. We will.
Sarah MacLean 57:58 / #
We'll have an episode on November 4. We will. That's what we can promise you. It will be here November 4. Yep. After that. Who knows? Cuz, Jen, Jen exhausts me. Um, all right. We love you guys.
Jennifer Prokop 58:16 / #
Be strong.
Sarah MacLean 58:17 / #
And yeah, we're here where we're thinking of you. We're really grateful for you. How about that? We you are keeping, you are keeping us going?
Jennifer Prokop 58:26 / #
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing. Again, I say it a lot like romance was such a solitary thing I loved and now it doesn't have to be and it is really amazing that that's how my world is now.
Sarah MacLean 58:43 / #
Yep. All right. This is Fated Mates. And what else you can find us at Fatedmates.net. There you can find all sorts of information about merch and transcripts and a link to the Spotify playlist of all the music that gets played during these episodes. We are produced by Eric Mortensen. Next week, we are reading Alicia Ries "Serving Pleaure", which is a book that gives both of us a whole lot of joy. Yes. And we hope it will give you a lot of joy to it is real sexy, and a great fun read for this week. So get on that.
Jennifer Prokop 59:30 / #
And we were all over the place. So tell us where you are. That's all.
Sarah MacLean 59:37 / #
I mean, this is the second week in a row we were all over the place. You understand that? Yeah. Adriana on Twitter, but Adriana texted us a GIF of the way she imagined our brains working during the "Heart of Blood and Ashes", episode. And it was not wrong. And we're kind of sorry.
Jennifer Prokop 59:58 / #
I'm not sorry about any of it.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:01 / #
You know, feels like in season three, we should be better at this.
Jennifer Prokop 1:00:05 / #
Times are rough though, Sarah, I feel like you know, I? Well, one of the things I say at school a lot, is I'm always asking this question, right, which is like, what is really, I'm an English teacher right? So, it's like what is the most important thing right now is like how do I get kids engaging and reading and writing? Like everything else falls away? Like what is the core of your discipline? And I feel like, you know, the core of our discipline in this podcast is that we just fucking love these books so goddamn much that our brains are like, just neurons firing all the time.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:39 / #
I mean, to be honest, I think that you all kind of love these books, too. So yeah, I mean, they wouldn't still listen, we know they're listening. I can see the data.
Jennifer Prokop 1:00:48 / #
I know you do love data. You do love data.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:50 / #
I must suck.
Jennifer Prokop 1:00:51 / #
Eric. Eric sends us the data every week. And I just say things like, wow.
Sarah MacLean 1:00:59 / #
And I'm like, can you explain this curve? Yeah. So anyway, you guys we love you. Stay strong, as Elizabeth Warren would say "Fight Only Righteous Fights".
S03.05: A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane: Because Moon Reasons
This week, we begin the Season 3 read alongs, and we announce the first wave of work of romance we want to honor -- joy. Romance is supposed to be fun, and sometimes, especially now, as 2020 rages around us, it can be difficult to remember that.
So, we begin talking about joy this week with a book that gave us both immense joy, Milla Vane's A Heart of Blood and Ashes. This one is a long one, y'all, so get ready. We're all over the place because we loved it so much, and it's a ride. Eric wants us to tell you that this is going to feel like an old-school IAD episode, so if you haven't read the book, good luck! We love you!
Next week, we’ve got an interstitial for you! And the week after, we’re deep diving on Alisha Rai’s Serving Pleasure, which is a fantastic erotic romance. Find it at Amazon, B&N, Kobo, Apple Books or Bookshop.org.
Also -- Sarah has a contemporary novella out September 15th! Preorder the Naughty Brits anthology, wherever you get your ebooks: Amazon, Nook, Kobo, Apple, or in print at bookshop.org.
Show Notes
Please listen and suscribe to the Black Romance Podcast, a fascinating oral history of Black romance authors. For more recent interviews with authors, check out The Wicked Wallflowers podcast. There are so many amazing romance podcasts for every type of listener.
After her death, readers shared their memories of their first Johanna Lindsey novels using the hashtag #MyFirstJohanna.
Alisha Rai, we demand to know the name of your hairdresser.
California and the entire West Coast and experiencing the worst fire season in 100 years. Climate Change is real.
Sarah asked for maps, and Jen said "reading strategies are for everyone" because they are! While we're at it, making mental movies, models, and visual images of what you read is one of the best reading strategies out there and if you have little kids, teach them to do this and it will help them be better readers their entire life.
This amazing thread by Alexandra Erin is about how sometimes genre is determined by plot and sometimes it's determined by setting.
The audiobook for A Heart of Blood and Ashes is great, but Jen really recommends you slow it down to .9 if you want it at "regular" speaking speed.
Ilona Andrews writes amazing books, and Jen wants you to read the Hidden Legacy series. IN FACT, NEVADA AND ROGAN DO KISS in the first book, but they don't do the business until the second.
If you missed our bodily autonomy episode, we were real mad about ridiculous anti-abortion laws and we talked about how romance taught us about birth control and our bodies.
Some interesting thoughts about poison, and the myth of the woman as poisoner and who is likely to use it. This is realted to the idea that manipulation (or as Maddek might call it, "sly tongue") is often used by the powerless as a way of getting around patriarchal power structures that silence them.
"She rescues him right back" is, of course, a reference to Pretty Woman.
Up next, Serving Pleasure by Alisha Rai.
Buy Fated Mates swag by clicking on the Merch link at the top of this page.
Did someone say map?
Did someone say map?
Lost Limb Count (SO MANY SPOILERS!)
For those listeners who missed Season One of Fated Mates, Kresley Cole really enjoyed removing limbs from her characters (They mostly regenerated). She liked it so much, that we tracked the lost limbs from the books in what is now an epic lost limb counter.
Also, if you missed Season One, it's our pure joy in your earholes. We recommend it.
Legs & Feet
Years earlier, Yvenne attempted to escape with her mother. In retaliation, her father and brother shatter her knee. It never heals properly and she will never run again.
At the end, Yvenne is trapped in her tower, and from that window she shoots her father Zhalen right through his knee and calf with her arrow, shattering his knee as hers had been.
Arms, Hands, and Fingers
Immediately before the book begins, Yvenne used a bow and arrow to kill her brother Lazen. To punish her, her father cut off the first and second fingers of her right hand so she can never draw a bow again.
Head, Face, and Eyes
Yvenne throws a dagger at her brother Bazir’s eye. Although her aim is perfect, the handle hits him in the eye rather than the blade. Later that night, Bazir and his men attack, and Maddek rips out Bazir’s tongue, stabs and kills Bazir with his own poisoned sword.
Torso
When Zhalen realized that Yvenne sent a message to Maddek’s parents, he whipped her back and left numerous scars.
When Maddek kidnaps her from the wedding caravan, Yvenne stabs her brother Cezan in the back with her dagger.
When Zhalen’s men come for her and kill Banek, she rips the arrows from the fallen bodies around her in order to shoot back at her father’s men.
Total Body Destruction
After Yvenne’s brother Aezil poisons Maddek, he is too weak to wield a weapon. He crawls to the edge of the cliff, drops his sword into the drepa (an evil bird dinosaur kind of thing) nest which causes them to attack and kill Aezil while Maddek and his wolf play dead.
Zhalen tricks Yvenne into drinking three doses of half-moon milk. She was not sure she was pregnant, so it forced her to have a heavy period or perhaps an abortion. She is overcome with grief.
After Yvenne shatters Zhalen’s kneecap with her arrow, Maddek rips out his tongue, shreds his cock and balls with his silver claws, and then tears out his heart. He then uses Zhalen’s own axe to cut off his head, which he then presents to Yvenne as a sign of his love and devotion.